Originally posted by altair4 If any, it's a proof that F2P turned out alot more horrible than they thought. Population peaked last sunday and has been dropping since. I think a very small percentage of new players are gonna put up with F2P for long and retention from returning players is gonna be even lower.
You are correct. (IMO) To say Bioware is listening to their fans should be ammended to Bioware is listening to their potential customers' wallets.
There has been weeks of people complaining that the FTP UI restrictions were overstepping. A money grab of unprecedented greed. Bioware's response was to decrease the UI restriction from 1 bar to 2.
Now, with over a week's metrics to analyze, Bioware, in all likelihood, is seeing that both prefered and FTP players are just not willing as a whole to pay for UI unlocks.
That combined with a 12% drop off in 1 week's population from Sunday to Sunday (based on that unmentionable metric) and voila, an easing of the UI restrictions.
12%?
Does that number seem high or low to you?
I want to answer typical, but I have to admit that I don't have enough data to justify that view. Is the 'unmentionable metric' XFire? If so I'm guessing your numbers are not Sunday to Sunday but rather Thursday to Thursday--which happens to be peak after FTP to last Thursday. Only one Sunday on XFire falls within FTP period, unless I'm misunderstanding the data, and that Sunday shows better than 100% upswing from the previous Sunday which was of course before FTP launch.
My personal sense is that so far FTP has benefitted the game in terms of population very well. Playing on two servers, Harbinger (likely most populated server) and Dalborra (Asia Pac server), I've seen significant to steady improvement in population--not just Fleet numbers but all zone numbers. Nonetheless, I'm sure that the negative feedback regarding some of the FTP restrictions has had an adverse impact on retention as well as enticing more players. For good reason in my view cause some of the restrictions are simply oppressing or at very least dubious. So this recent decision to ameliorate some of the negatives of the FTP system are for good reason regardless of greed or good will. Still, I'd like to see artifact quality and credit cap restrictions changed as well.
For the record, I'm a subscriber with no intention of unsubscribing in the near future.
Get rid of the reduced xp for non-subscribers, then I'll come back.
well *caught* .. you could buy a huge experience boost what will futher enlarge your game experience
*quick run away and hide*
Awesome find. An experience boost which lets you kill more stuff to level, none of which helps your already capped credit value or inventory problems.
So the "F2P" player continues to get nothing at the expense of credit ceilings. They just waste time with no gain while they level without boosts. Or they spend real money. Great game.
I'd rather play Aion F2P, they don't restrict inventory, bank deposits, or currency. They also don't restrict content, which is another story .. but it goes into what others say about "SWTOR should have gone the Truly F2P model of NCSoft".
Watch and learn TSW,this is how you make super MMOs.
Now remove your horbars and fast and every thanksgiving give players 1, and everybody loves Funcom.
Or get a christmas jackpot ,remove something now and give it back on christmas,oh boy oh boy,MMO rules.
Well said.
Hopefully everyone had an awesome Thanksgiving.
We can only hope for more Christmas treasures, lets see!
BTW, SWTOR was a better game than TSW, largely due to the games combat animations and SWTOR's coreographed combat. TSW can't touch that :P Both games stunk ..but TSW stunk worse :-)
Originally posted by altair4 If any, it's a proof that F2P turned out alot more horrible than they thought. Population peaked last sunday and has been dropping since. I think a very small percentage of new players are gonna put up with F2P for long and retention from returning players is gonna be even lower.
You are correct. (IMO) To say Bioware is listening to their fans should be ammended to Bioware is listening to their potential customers' wallets.
There has been weeks of people complaining that the FTP UI restrictions were overstepping. A money grab of unprecedented greed. Bioware's response was to decrease the UI restriction from 1 bar to 2.
Now, with over a week's metrics to analyze, Bioware, in all likelihood, is seeing that both prefered and FTP players are just not willing as a whole to pay for UI unlocks.
That combined with a 12% drop off in 1 week's population from Sunday to Sunday (based on that unmentionable metric) and voila, an easing of the UI restrictions.
12%?
Does that number seem high or low to you?
I want to answer typical, but I have to admit that I don't have enough data to justify that view. Is the 'unmentionable metric' XFire? If so I'm guessing your numbers are not Sunday to Sunday but rather Thursday to Thursday--which happens to be peak after FTP to last Thursday. Only one Sunday on XFire falls within FTP period, unless I'm misunderstanding the data, and that Sunday shows better than 100% upswing from the previous Sunday which was of course before FTP launch.
My personal sense is that so far FTP has benefitted the game in terms of population very well. Playing on two servers, Harbinger (likely most populated server) and Dalborra (Asia Pac server), I've seen significant to steady improvement in population--not just Fleet numbers but all zone numbers. Nonetheless, I'm sure that the negative feedback regarding some of the FTP restrictions has had an adverse impact on retention as well as enticing more players. For good reason in my view cause some of the restrictions are simply oppressing or at very least dubious. So this recent decision to ameliorate some of the negatives of the FTP system are for good reason regardless of greed or good will. Still, I'd like to see artifact quality and credit cap restrictions changed as well.
For the record, I'm a subscriber with no intention of unsubscribing in the near future.
FTP Nov 15th. Sunday post FTP Nov 18th comparison to Sunday November 25th shows a 12% decline on that certain metric.
Although I'm guessing as FTP accounts hit post level 20 and aren't buying UI unlocks (and presumabling stopping) adds to Bioware's new stance on UI restrictions.
I must say though the ui restrictions was a singularly poor decision on their part. They could have gone about trying to get people to buy things from the shop in way better ways but it is done and I'm hoping not too much damage has resulted. They are people who love the story you see it in the chat , how many are happy to come back and play but these type of poor decisions will drive people away.
Originally posted by altair4 If any, it's a proof that F2P turned out alot more horrible than they thought. Population peaked last sunday and has been dropping since. I think a very small percentage of new players are gonna put up with F2P for long and retention from returning players is gonna be even lower.
You are correct. (IMO) To say Bioware is listening to their fans should be ammended to Bioware is listening to their potential customers' wallets.
There has been weeks of people complaining that the FTP UI restrictions were overstepping. A money grab of unprecedented greed. Bioware's response was to decrease the UI restriction from 1 bar to 2.
Now, with over a week's metrics to analyze, Bioware, in all likelihood, is seeing that both prefered and FTP players are just not willing as a whole to pay for UI unlocks.
That combined with a 12% drop off in 1 week's population from Sunday to Sunday (based on that unmentionable metric) and voila, an easing of the UI restrictions.
12%?
Does that number seem high or low to you?
I want to answer typical, but I have to admit that I don't have enough data to justify that view. Is the 'unmentionable metric' XFire? If so I'm guessing your numbers are not Sunday to Sunday but rather Thursday to Thursday--which happens to be peak after FTP to last Thursday. Only one Sunday on XFire falls within FTP period, unless I'm misunderstanding the data, and that Sunday shows better than 100% upswing from the previous Sunday which was of course before FTP launch.
My personal sense is that so far FTP has benefitted the game in terms of population very well. Playing on two servers, Harbinger (likely most populated server) and Dalborra (Asia Pac server), I've seen significant to steady improvement in population--not just Fleet numbers but all zone numbers. Nonetheless, I'm sure that the negative feedback regarding some of the FTP restrictions has had an adverse impact on retention as well as enticing more players. For good reason in my view cause some of the restrictions are simply oppressing or at very least dubious. So this recent decision to ameliorate some of the negatives of the FTP system are for good reason regardless of greed or good will. Still, I'd like to see artifact quality and credit cap restrictions changed as well.
For the record, I'm a subscriber with no intention of unsubscribing in the near future.
FTP Nov 15th. Sunday post FTP Nov 18th comparison to Sunday November 25th shows a 12% decline on that certain metric.
Although I'm guessing as FTP accounts hit post level 20 and aren't buying UI unlocks (and presumabling stopping) adds to Bioware's new stance on UI restrictions.
Sorry, you're right on days. Somehow I was looking at an October calendar. So, 12% is measuring peak after FTP launch and the most recent data. Sunday 18 to Sunday 25. I still want to answer typical to the question does this seem high or low. I'm suggesting that this recent decision needn't be read as an action of desperation, but rather one of practicality. I certainly think that they should continue to remove some of these overbearing type restrictions.
Smart move. Shows the fanboy defenders that they were defending something indefensible.
Now they have to fix the locked quest rewards and maybe I'll give the game a third chance.
I have no idea how bad the XP nerf feels as I didn't get that far. But I'm guessing 25% can definitely get in the way if you skip a lot of mobs.
I hit 17 and the grinds starting to hit now. Extra hours grinding mobs to make up for the XP that I didn't get doing quests. The normal amount of quickbars will be nice, but I've already cut back on my play time.
Last couple of nights I was in a WoW daze just grinding...it was horrible...
All who complaine about reduced xp - just trolling. Xp reduced but not that much to grind the lvl.
Not all classes and playstyles are the same my friend.
My main on release was a Sith Assasin. One of those classes that can sneak by mobs and go to the quests fast. I fell behind a couple levels with ease and needed to run space missions and PVP to catch up. The idea that exp would be cut another 25% means I would have had a LOT of issues in falling behind.
If you skip content, you cant complaine about lack of it. There a lot of q to gain enough xp even for f2p player.
Good move. They were getting killed about the quickbars all over the Internet. They should also go ahead and give everybody the ability to hide head slots, display titles, wear purple gear, and customize their companion's appearance. It's absurd they are trying to charge for those "features."
Originally posted by altair4 If any, it's a proof that F2P turned out alot more horrible than they thought. Population peaked last sunday and has been dropping since. I think a very small percentage of new players are gonna put up with F2P for long and retention from returning players is gonna be even lower.
You are correct. (IMO) To say Bioware is listening to their fans should be ammended to Bioware is listening to their potential customers' wallets.
There has been weeks of people complaining that the FTP UI restrictions were overstepping. A money grab of unprecedented greed. Bioware's response was to decrease the UI restriction from 1 bar to 2.
Now, with over a week's metrics to analyze, Bioware, in all likelihood, is seeing that both prefered and FTP players are just not willing as a whole to pay for UI unlocks.
That combined with a 12% drop off in 1 week's population from Sunday to Sunday (based on that unmentionable metric) and voila, an easing of the UI restrictions.
12%?
Does that number seem high or low to you?
I want to answer typical, but I have to admit that I don't have enough data to justify that view. Is the 'unmentionable metric' XFire? If so I'm guessing your numbers are not Sunday to Sunday but rather Thursday to Thursday--which happens to be peak after FTP to last Thursday. Only one Sunday on XFire falls within FTP period, unless I'm misunderstanding the data, and that Sunday shows better than 100% upswing from the previous Sunday which was of course before FTP launch.
My personal sense is that so far FTP has benefitted the game in terms of population very well. Playing on two servers, Harbinger (likely most populated server) and Dalborra (Asia Pac server), I've seen significant to steady improvement in population--not just Fleet numbers but all zone numbers. Nonetheless, I'm sure that the negative feedback regarding some of the FTP restrictions has had an adverse impact on retention as well as enticing more players. For good reason in my view cause some of the restrictions are simply oppressing or at very least dubious. So this recent decision to ameliorate some of the negatives of the FTP system are for good reason regardless of greed or good will. Still, I'd like to see artifact quality and credit cap restrictions changed as well.
For the record, I'm a subscriber with no intention of unsubscribing in the near future.
FTP Nov 15th. Sunday post FTP Nov 18th comparison to Sunday November 25th shows a 12% decline on that certain metric.
Although I'm guessing as FTP accounts hit post level 20 and aren't buying UI unlocks (and presumabling stopping) adds to Bioware's new stance on UI restrictions.
Sorry, you're right on days. Somehow I was looking at an October calendar. So, 12% is measuring peak after FTP launch and the most recent data. Sunday 18 to Sunday 25. I still want to answer typical to the question does this seem high or low. I'm suggesting that this recent decision needn't be read as an action of desperation, but rather one of practicality. I certainly think that they should continue to remove some of these overbearing type restrictions.
The metric will only get worse as time goes on.
The reason, as you say, might be pratical. It's the same reason that drove Star Wars fans away. Which is kind of sad when you realize that not everyone is too poor to pay a subscription. An awesome Star Wars MMO will be worth huge amounts.
Which is what EA was banking on. Except they had an early release riddled with bugs, which chocked up Customer Service, in a game that had an inferior graphics engine (still yet to be optimized).
They aren't listening to anyone. If they were, we would be adding depth and purpose to exploration, free-flying space, larger worlds in general, more freedom, or anything that's even remotely close to calling it a MMORPG. No. Instead, they add another redundant battleground and redundant space mission.
Originally posted by mmoDAD They aren't listening to anyone. If they were, we would be adding depth and purpose to exploration, free-flying space, larger worlds in general, more freedom, or anything that's even remotely close to calling it a MMORPG. No. Instead, they add another redundant battleground and redundant space mission.
Pretty much, if they listened to the players they would fix the game instead making redundant gimped expanded free trial.
Smart move. Shows the fanboy defenders that they were defending something indefensible.
Now they have to fix the locked quest rewards and maybe I'll give the game a third chance.
I have no idea how bad the XP nerf feels as I didn't get that far. But I'm guessing 25% can definitely get in the way if you skip a lot of mobs.
I hit 17 and the grinds starting to hit now. Extra hours grinding mobs to make up for the XP that I didn't get doing quests. The normal amount of quickbars will be nice, but I've already cut back on my play time.
Last couple of nights I was in a WoW daze just grinding...it was horrible...
All who complaine about reduced xp - just trolling. Xp reduced but not that much to grind the lvl.
Not all classes and playstyles are the same my friend.
My main on release was a Sith Assasin. One of those classes that can sneak by mobs and go to the quests fast. I fell behind a couple levels with ease and needed to run space missions and PVP to catch up. The idea that exp would be cut another 25% means I would have had a LOT of issues in falling behind.
If you skip content, you cant complaine about lack of it. There a lot of q to gain enough xp even for f2p player.
When did grinding random mobs become "Content"? What a sad day.
I think for previous subs they should have regular xp and 4 bars, for people who have never subbed-let them sub for one month and then they can get their reg xp and 4 bars
Get rid of the reduced xp for non-subscribers, then I'll come back.
well *caught* .. you could buy a huge experience boost what will futher enlarge your game experience
*quick run away and hide*
Awesome find. An experience boost which lets you kill more stuff to level, none of which helps your already capped credit value or inventory problems.
So the "F2P" player continues to get nothing at the expense of credit ceilings. They just waste time with no gain while they level without boosts. Or they spend real money. Great game.
I'd rather play Aion F2P, they don't restrict inventory, bank deposits, or currency. They also don't restrict content, which is another story .. but it goes into what others say about "SWTOR should have gone the Truly F2P model of NCSoft".
I agree, Aion has the best F2P, the unfortunate thing is than you actually have to play Aion which is a bad game IMO
Originally posted by JKwervo So technically its $5 for the UI since that'll kick people to preferred status. Got it. EA isn't getting my money. It already fooled me once when bought the CE. Never again.
lol, I give Starbucks more then $5 per day. To each their own, but I'll glady pay it as long as there is some fun to be had.
Too little, too late. Already uninstalled after seeing ALL the restrictions. I was upset about the UI restrictions, but was flabbergasted by the "Hide Helm" limitation. You are going to charge me to hide helm? I don't think so. I would have gladly purchased other things from the market, like bank upgrades and such....but hide helm. No, thank you. Enjoyed the game for a while. Even had 1900 "complimentary cartel" points that I thinking of subbing for, but to charge for idiotic stuff is beyond mind-boggling. /endrant
Originally posted by JKwervo So technically its $5 for the UI since that'll kick people to preferred status. Got it. EA isn't getting my money. It already fooled me once when bought the CE. Never again.
lol, I give Starbucks more then $5 per day. To each their own, but I'll glady pay it as long as there is some fun to be had.
Smart move. Shows the fanboy defenders that they were defending something indefensible.
Now they have to fix the locked quest rewards and maybe I'll give the game a third chance.
I have no idea how bad the XP nerf feels as I didn't get that far. But I'm guessing 25% can definitely get in the way if you skip a lot of mobs.
I hit 17 and the grinds starting to hit now. Extra hours grinding mobs to make up for the XP that I didn't get doing quests. The normal amount of quickbars will be nice, but I've already cut back on my play time.
Last couple of nights I was in a WoW daze just grinding...it was horrible...
All who complaine about reduced xp - just trolling. Xp reduced but not that much to grind the lvl.
Not all classes and playstyles are the same my friend.
My main on release was a Sith Assasin. One of those classes that can sneak by mobs and go to the quests fast. I fell behind a couple levels with ease and needed to run space missions and PVP to catch up. The idea that exp would be cut another 25% means I would have had a LOT of issues in falling behind.
If you skip content, you cant complaine about lack of it. There a lot of q to gain enough xp even for f2p player.
When did grinding random mobs become "Content"? What a sad day.
Noone talking about random mobs. You sneak by mobs and quests to do story. Or you triyng to say thats SWTOR havent got enough Q to lvl up, so u need to grind.
XP is reduced but not that much. As i said who complaine about reduced XP and how it ruines gameplay r just trolling.
CEO says I'm not cutting pay by 50% across the board.
Employees cheer saying great CEO , he listens to us.
This isn't the way it happens.
Seriously folks , patting EA/Bioware on the back for "listening" and changing their stance on an obviously moronic decision such as the quickbard limitation shows just how low of an expectation some of you have or what you will put up with.
Bioware made a moronic decision , somewhat reversed it , and it's "proof they are listening".
No wonder we get the crap that that is sold today , the average consumer doesn't mind taking it up the ass.
Comments
well *caught* .. you could buy a huge experience boost what will futher enlarge your game experience
*quick run away and hide*
I want to answer typical, but I have to admit that I don't have enough data to justify that view. Is the 'unmentionable metric' XFire? If so I'm guessing your numbers are not Sunday to Sunday but rather Thursday to Thursday--which happens to be peak after FTP to last Thursday. Only one Sunday on XFire falls within FTP period, unless I'm misunderstanding the data, and that Sunday shows better than 100% upswing from the previous Sunday which was of course before FTP launch.
My personal sense is that so far FTP has benefitted the game in terms of population very well. Playing on two servers, Harbinger (likely most populated server) and Dalborra (Asia Pac server), I've seen significant to steady improvement in population--not just Fleet numbers but all zone numbers. Nonetheless, I'm sure that the negative feedback regarding some of the FTP restrictions has had an adverse impact on retention as well as enticing more players. For good reason in my view cause some of the restrictions are simply oppressing or at very least dubious. So this recent decision to ameliorate some of the negatives of the FTP system are for good reason regardless of greed or good will. Still, I'd like to see artifact quality and credit cap restrictions changed as well.
For the record, I'm a subscriber with no intention of unsubscribing in the near future.
Awesome find. An experience boost which lets you kill more stuff to level, none of which helps your already capped credit value or inventory problems.
So the "F2P" player continues to get nothing at the expense of credit ceilings. They just waste time with no gain while they level without boosts. Or they spend real money. Great game.
I'd rather play Aion F2P, they don't restrict inventory, bank deposits, or currency. They also don't restrict content, which is another story .. but it goes into what others say about "SWTOR should have gone the Truly F2P model of NCSoft".
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Watch and learn TSW,this is how you make super MMOs.
Now remove your hotbars and fast and every thanksgiving give players 1, and everybody loves Funcom.
Or get a christmas jackpot ,remove something now and give it back on christmas,oh boy oh boy,MMO rules.
Let's internet
Well said.
Hopefully everyone had an awesome Thanksgiving.
We can only hope for more Christmas treasures, lets see!
BTW, SWTOR was a better game than TSW, largely due to the games combat animations and SWTOR's coreographed combat. TSW can't touch that :P Both games stunk ..but TSW stunk worse :-)
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
FTP Nov 15th. Sunday post FTP Nov 18th comparison to Sunday November 25th shows a 12% decline on that certain metric.
Although I'm guessing as FTP accounts hit post level 20 and aren't buying UI unlocks (and presumabling stopping) adds to Bioware's new stance on UI restrictions.
Sorry, you're right on days. Somehow I was looking at an October calendar. So, 12% is measuring peak after FTP launch and the most recent data. Sunday 18 to Sunday 25. I still want to answer typical to the question does this seem high or low. I'm suggesting that this recent decision needn't be read as an action of desperation, but rather one of practicality. I certainly think that they should continue to remove some of these overbearing type restrictions.
If you skip content, you cant complaine about lack of it. There a lot of q to gain enough xp even for f2p player.
<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/499105419258.jpg"; border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>
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The metric will only get worse as time goes on.
The reason, as you say, might be pratical. It's the same reason that drove Star Wars fans away. Which is kind of sad when you realize that not everyone is too poor to pay a subscription. An awesome Star Wars MMO will be worth huge amounts.
Which is what EA was banking on. Except they had an early release riddled with bugs, which chocked up Customer Service, in a game that had an inferior graphics engine (still yet to be optimized).
EA just doesn't do MMORPG's very well.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Pretty much, if they listened to the players they would fix the game instead making redundant gimped expanded free trial.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
When did grinding random mobs become "Content"? What a sad day.
I agree, Aion has the best F2P, the unfortunate thing is than you actually have to play Aion which is a bad game IMO
You've just insulted all Asian MMOs.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
lol, I give Starbucks more then $5 per day. To each their own, but I'll glady pay it as long as there is some fun to be had.
EA/BW should have started listening to the players long before now.
lol, I give Starbucks more then $5 per day. To each their own, but I'll glady pay it as long as there is some fun to be had.
At least Starbucks is worth it.
Noone talking about random mobs. You sneak by mobs and quests to do story. Or you triyng to say thats SWTOR havent got enough Q to lvl up, so u need to grind.
XP is reduced but not that much. As i said who complaine about reduced XP and how it ruines gameplay r just trolling.
<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/499105419258.jpg"; border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>
CEO says I'm cutting pay by 50% across the board.
Employees scream and threaten.
CEO says I'm not cutting pay by 50% across the board.
Employees cheer saying great CEO , he listens to us.
This isn't the way it happens.
Seriously folks , patting EA/Bioware on the back for "listening" and changing their stance on an obviously moronic decision such as the quickbard limitation shows just how low of an expectation some of you have or what you will put up with.
Bioware made a moronic decision , somewhat reversed it , and it's "proof they are listening".
No wonder we get the crap that that is sold today , the average consumer doesn't mind taking it up the ass.