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More EA hate this time from a MoH forum moderator
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http://battlelog.medalofhonor.com/mohw/forum/threadview/2832654490060478008/?websso=1
This was written by a moderator over at the official MoH forums. While it's somewhat off topic and despite it being about a completely different genre, the amount of things written in that which can be related to SWTOR is just sad. SWTOR was rushed through the door so it didn't compete with Diablo 3 especially but with GW2 and MoP looming along the horizon, I'm sure that played a part too.
Comments
I don't think it was rushed. What I do think is they horribly misjudged what aspects were needed and important for the game to have longevity and significant subscription sustainability.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It was rushed as this article explains:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/behind-the-scenes-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-throwing-people-at-the-problem/
"During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”"
Things were cut out within the last six months. If they had delayed the game, these things could have stayed in
Considering that "some developers cried" seems as though that content got cut permanently, and had no intentions of being added later
The amount of time needed to create a game is proportionate to the size of the game. The game was just too big for EAs relase window. Bioware are known for taking their time over their games, and the quality shows as a result, but with EA, Bioware did not have the luxury of time like they are used to with this.
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I reckon it would have been OK if Dallas Dickinson did not get involved - she has no clue
She is the one who reckoned people wanted to play a hero and not be "Uncle Owen", which brought in the 9 iconic proffesions down from the customisable 32, for SWG
She was not with the SWTOR from the beginning, she came in mid way.
Now here she is cutting down SWTOR, except this time we never will know what the game would have been like. SWTOR is like SWG being released in Nov 2005, instead of June 2003, where we would not know any different and there never being a pre-NGE.
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This.
I could never understand the hate for EA when it comes to SWTOR development. Bioware was given loads of cash, the amounts never given to anyone before, to make one MMORPG to rule them all. We know how it turned out.
If some super fun features were cut out six months before launch, where are those features now, almost a year after release?
The game was still rushed, they wanted to get it out before MOP, GW2 and Diablo 3, hence a lot of the game got chopped down to make a viable game for release but I agree with the rest what you say. It was all of it - It was rushed and what you said
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I belonged to the SWTOR forums since day 1. I have an Oct. 08 forum account. I watched, posted, and read all the way until launch. Each day would produce countless threads on the importance social features, e.g., exploration, crafting, ability to be yourself, gigantic worlds, etc.
The developers literally paid no mind to any of it. People weren't asking for SWG 2.0. They were asking for a deep Star Wars MMO.
Everything about SWTOR is simply terrible. In fact, it makes the entire Star Wars franchise look cheap (not that is wasn't already). It was a complete waste of time and an embarrassment to the MMO genre.
The last thing I want is another WoW. SWTOR didn't even do that. It gave us a console game with optional co-op.
if the MoH moderator said this, i hope he realises that MoH:W was waaaaaaay more rushed than Swtor. Swtor might be messy but MoH is ugh!!!!!!
How do you know they were even super fun?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
SWTOR reminds of the time when our company spent hundreds of millions on a satellite phone. Worked for years on it, and finally some VP said: "It's THIS BIG? It weighs FIVE POUNDS?? AND IT DOESN"T WORK INDOORS???"
The project was cancelled. But not until after spending (we estimated) $800 MILLION.
SWTOR is like that, except no VP ever said anything, and it wasn't cancelled.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
I was also a member of the SWTOR boards from the beginning - and was the leader of one of the more well known communities on the site.
Fans and critics alike would share a whole wealth of desires for the game, feature ideas and requests, and offered valuable talking points on Bioware's approach to the MMO genre. The general consensus was clear: yes, we wanted an MMO (warts and all), but no one - not even the WoW fans - wanted World of Warcraft with Star Wars clothes on (which is what we ended up getting). There were lengthy discussions on this particular topic; Bioware claimed they were listening intently to what we had to say. I suppose at that point they were too far past the pale to do anything about it, but it should be clear now that the game they were making (and have made), and the game that consumers wanted were two very different entities.
The closed beta test was a farce. There were several loud voices in the beta community - myself included - that realised very early on what was happening internally, and what impact that would have on the game. When we got into beta we were promised a wealth of new features over the course of testing that would move the game beyond the rut it had seemingly dug itself, yet what ended up happening was an endless cycle of bug fixing with no new features making it to the test at all. I got removed from the CB for voicing my concerns, and a couple of the more vocal critics also got removed for creating talking points on the problems with SWTOR.
The fact that the community is so toxic should not be surprised. There exists an atmosphere of poison at Bioware Austin. It has left every developer, designer, artist and producer (even the higher ups) with a bitter taste in their mouths. A lot of those people have been moved around to other Bioware studios, and to other EA studios, and that atmosphere of toxicity is spreading. The comunity itself is a reflection on the lack of cohesion and synergy within the TOR team - and Bioware as a whole. Bioware have never been particularly good at engaging and running large communities for their games, often relying on fans to do that for them, but TOR is the first game I've seen where so many people have been so adversely effected by the vibe from a big studio.
TOR isn't going to be around for much longer, I'm afraid. Bioware won't learn anything from this experience as a studio, because Bioware (the brand) has been reduced to a toxic asset by SWTOR. EA are currently minifying Bioware back down to its original size, based out of Canada, and the rest of the studios and teams given to them with the takeover are likely to be dissolved. Even Mythic have moved away from assosiating themselves with BIoware. It's a real shame, considering they've put out some of the greatest video games ever made.
Not all of the blame can be placed at EAs door. In fact, very little here is EAs fault. Bioware started TOR before EA came in. They had lofty ambitions before EA came in, and only pursued the merger with EA to secure the funding needed to make the game. When it became apparent that Bioware Austin was a mess of mismanagement, along with a poorly envisioned game design, EA had to make the most out of a bad situation. They invested a huge sum of money in Bioware, and Bioware p****d is away. EA aren't making any friends by trying to profiteer off the failure of the team in Austin with the F2P conversion, but we shouldn't expect them to invest yet more money trying to save a sinking ship.
TOR isn't going to be around for much longer, and I wouldn't be surprised if the price Bioware pays is total disolution. I would not be surprised at all.
Not taking anything away from your points but You know Dallas is a guy right?
True dat!
Edit* Actually don't know if he or not, just wanted to sound all street 
Same here.
It was the reason I stopped going there because it was frustrating and rather evident they were't paying a damn bit of attention to the discussions. Many issues that arose were discussed ad nauseum on that forum long before beta ever began. It was fairly fucking ridiculous.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I guess in his case, it takes one to know one.
I wasnt at the very beginning of SWTOR, at that time i was experiencing the final deathkneel of AOC Pvp.
But when i entered Swtor beta, all through several months i couldnt help but see Bioware serve 3 masters and disappoint each one:
1. The WOW overlord of jumping through all those obstacles just to appease, only to then be dropped months later after being used up and discarded. yes that was EA's goal, to cater to that crowd using the Star Wars IP as the cheese with Bioware being the gullible meatshield to go along with it, Yes and again, catering to such a group they listened to the players, same exact group Bioware didnt listen to, same exact group that Bioware listened to, implemented some their ideas/feedback, and get crucified for it; but thats what they wanted, not the players fault.
2. the EA Overlord, their history speaks for itself, along with the release date for Swtor,lets not forget the conference calls, and their decision of no longer seeing swtor being of any importance. They wanted a instant blockbuster, not a game that they had to hone and sharpen overtime to make better (something Rift has done, and hopefully earned the industry's respect for it). Nope not EA, you fail one time and off with your head. the Doctors got the hell out of dodge along with a handful of people. for the article of the MOH mod speaking about swtor being a rush product, whatever -- all i know is EA doesnt have a leg to stand on and will be given every criticism that they deserve for years to come.
3. The Bioware Conscious, when i played SWTOR, i saw Biowares soul, the problem however it was occupied and cluttered with elements that tarnished their work of art, forced factions?, rigid social features?, large amounts of uneeded features (space combat anyone), wasted budget on short lived decisions? (voice overs, again space combat, llum). when playing Swtor, i enjoyed it, from beginning to end, but i could not ignore the waste that i saw, the waste in space in particular, so many areas being linear, no real incentive of venturing to cantinas, let alone occupy them, a game that talks about living and breathing, then turns around to hold your hand and tell you how important it is to go to the next exclaimation point, its a insult to the idea of a world thats alive, and nothing more than a marketing buzzword.
the biggest thing that turns my stomach is the combat. do i hate the combat? no -- but what does it really offer, other than canned interactive responses of blocking sabers, parrying, and dodging until something dies. The moment you apply movement, esspecially on a pvp scale where movement is everything, the combat becomes a cluttered mess of swinging attacks, bunny hopping, and spam -- more of the same like any other mmo.
Simply put , Biowares style of combat showed its aged, and it has caught up to them , biting them dead in their throats.
I placed perhaps a good 7 to 8 months into the game, after that i left and moved on to Planetside 2, however i look back to SWTOR seeing how far they have gone. Truthfully It makes me sad that the is now the customary punching bag for the cool kids to hit to make themselves sound legit, while there are other mmos that have screwed up far harder than Swtor has ever done (Age of Conan Dx 10 debacle anyone? - its on the box!).
If any consolation, I didnt believe in the hype unlike many others -- that is perhaps why i stayed with Swtor for so long and got my moneys worth from the game, understanding all its short comings and inevitable downfall.
And EA has been known to disasterously rush things. The sad story here is that they didnt take the warhammer route. But This game died the moment they announced railshooter and i shouldnt have wasted my money.
I hope they cried hysterically when the game engine was chosen.
Gordon Walton was the Bioware executive who chose the Alpha Hero Engine.
Needless to say, he was also the first of the SWTOR management team (Head of Bioware Austin) that was shown the door. In January of 2012, when after Launch, the game's performance warts (which affected development and game design) began to become apparent and the writting began to appear on the wall. (Lots of people canceling their subs before their free month was even up.)
I was one of those. No regrets.
Because a significant amount of staff was laid off just a couple months after release, when sub numbers had dwindled.
The game itself wasn't so bad, as I really enjoyed the PVE storylines.
If the game would have had another 6 months to a year who knows what it could have been.
Features cut that comes to mind might have been:
- Flora / fauna AI. Aka more life to cities and planets. Instead of the static lifeless zones we got now.
- Weather system.
- Better textures and graphics optimizations.
- Better space content, instead of On Rails arcade garbage we got now.
- Better, more tested and improved PVP.
The above are just some things that would have significantly improved the game, give it more persistent lifelike feel and overall more enjoyment.
Agreed, along with other posters as well before this.. I was here years ago too when SWTOR was first announced and was excited that it might be the Star Wars IP to finally do the right thing.. But as the information leaked out, I kept saying this is nothing more then "Dragon Age" in a star wars skin.. (I never played KoTOR).. As I had feared, it played exactly like a single player RP game with online co-op features, or instanced lobby features.. There is absolutely no depth to SWTOR whatsoever.. EA might hold more blame at the end of development, but Bioware holds ALL the blame for the original design.. Shame on both of them for using the star wars IP as a quick money grab..
Rushed? They spent 4+ years and 200+ million. How the hell can it be rushed? LOL
They tried to make KOTOR 4 and pass it off as SWTOR online mmorpg. Simple as that.
Has 1/10th the features of your standard new age mmo and 1/100th of your older mmo's.
The only thing they had going for it was the story line (which even a sandbox junkie like myself enjoyed), and the voice overs which i normaly just skipped anyways.
Other than that it played and felt like a single player console rpg. They ruined it by not making a true and epic mmorpg.
SWG2 with better mechanics would ahve been a better thing to follow than KOTOR
SOURCE!!!!!
This is a common misconception, as far as I saw. BioWare was interested in a KOTOR 3 game before EA, but thats about it.
SWTOR was announced publically only after EA took over.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
If it was not rushed then why was half the game chopped down?
It was rushed because EA wanted to get the game out before their compeitors, and had to chop stuff out to make it more viable for a quicker release. If they had more time, they could have made what they had in the game viable, without having to chop stuff out, and developers would not have cried
They even hired many more devs to get the game done. The game was huge and needed way more than 5 or 6 years to do properly.
If you are given 1 hour to level a char from 1-50 in SWTOR, you will fail as there is not enough time to do it all
If you are given 1 hour to complete 1 space mission in SWTOR, will succeed with plenty of time left.
The amount of time needed to create a game is proportionate to the size of the game, and SWTOR was MASSIVE, and became TOO BIG for them to handle. Usually when Bioware creates a game they release a game when it is ready, that is what has made all the games the best, but with EA, they did not have the time or patience and probably running ouyt of money for it too and had to push it out
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Because if you havent noticed, majority of new released mmo's are chopped down lol. Half the content and features do not exist in new age mmo's that did in older games. And thats the reason many of these mmo's are failing.
Instead os messing around with voice overs they should have put effort into the core of the game first. SWTOR wasnt massive it was eye candy and KOTOR 4 with voice over's. Nothing about SWTOR was massive at all. The maps were linear, the exploration was chopped, crafting was bad, space fighting/flight was chopped down. I felt like i was a dog being led around on a leash.
New single player console rpg's offered more than SWTOR did.