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Will we ever see complex crafting again?

ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon

I started crafting in SWG and I am now ruined with all other MMO's. After dealing with the complexity of SWG's system, I can't find anything else that is even close. In SWG, I would spend a whole day doing nothing but scanning for resources, putting down harvesters, checking my factories, crafting items and then doing my vendor work.

Do you think we will ever see anything like it again?

 

 

 

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Comments

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    The repopulation and archeage (if i read right) will have indepth crafting.

    But crafting in SWG wasnt complex, just indepth. Had 4 crafters :)

    Just some people want everything right away and wont slow down to try a good crafting system. Why its usualy put on the back burner in newer MMO's :(

  • Arcondo87Arcondo87 Prince Albert, SKPosts: 94Member
    play Salem its plent complex....20 ore will yeld u 1 ingot, 2 IF your lucky. Skills are time consuming to lvl and certain things r difficult to build. Best sandbox i ever played
  • KalafaxKalafax Gainesville, FLPosts: 520Member Uncommon

    Im with the OP, but like posted above, it was very indepth and well made, but it wasnt terribly complex which is why it succeded so well.

     

    Salem and games like it take crafting to a tedious level, which is alot different then being indepth/complex which it isnt.

     

    Reading your reply, yes the Beastmaster crafting, if you want to call it that, was definitly very complex.

    Mess with the best, Die like the rest

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Onomas

    The repopulation and archeage (if i read right) will have indepth crafting.

    But crafting in SWG wasnt complex, just indepth. Had 4 crafters :)

    Just some people want everything right away and wont slow down to try a good crafting system. Why its usualy put on the back burner in newer MMO's :(

    I am looking forward to trying out the repopulation. SWG crafting was complex pre-NGE and the beastmaster crafting, per se, was extremely complex if you wanted a max level pet.

  • idgaradidgarad NOwhere, MNPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by bigsmiff

    I started crafting in SWG and I am now ruined with all other MMO's. After dealing with the complexity of SWG's system, I can't find anything else that is even close. In SWG, I would spend a whole day doing nothing but scanning for resources, putting down harvesters, checking my factories, crafting items and then doing my vendor work.

    Do you think we will ever see anything like it again?

     

     

     

    You think SWG was complex? *snicker*

     

    Obligatory: Try Eve Online if you want Complex Crafting. Try the production chain for a Titan.

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member

    its the reason i have played Ryzom, which is the closest i've found, and Vanguard. EQ2's system used to be pretty intense, you actually took damage from failures and, like SWG, it ate up one of your base stat pools. but those days for EQ2 are gone i think. its still fun, but nothing like it was, nor anything like SWG was.

    as a previous poster noted, SWG's crafting was not complex, but it had a depth of play and options that you just don't see anymore. i think more than just the depth, however, i miss the impact and importance crafting could play in a game. i honestly don't miss the economy of SWG, but i do miss being able to craft items for myself and friends that were actually useful and not an adjunct to quest rewards or gear grinds.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    Originally posted by Arcondo87
    play Salem its plent complex....20 ore will yeld u 1 ingot, 2 IF your lucky. Skills are time consuming to lvl and certain things r difficult to build. Best sandbox i ever played

    I dont think taking simple unexciting tasks and stretching them into time consuming chores qualifies as complex crafting.  If its not fun and just takes more time then its a failure.  SWG made crafting fun as hell, interesting, rewarding, the more effort you put into it the more you got out of it and not in the sense of hitting more rocks because it takes more of something to make an ingot.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by idgarad
    Originally posted by bigsmiff

    I started crafting in SWG and I am now ruined with all other MMO's. After dealing with the complexity of SWG's system, I can't find anything else that is even close. In SWG, I would spend a whole day doing nothing but scanning for resources, putting down harvesters, checking my factories, crafting items and then doing my vendor work.

    Do you think we will ever see anything like it again?

     

     

     

    You think SWG was complex? *snicker*

     

    Obligatory: Try Eve Online if you want Complex Crafting. Try the production chain for a Titan.

    I tried Eve and I wasn't impressed at all. But, I didn't find the game fun enough to stick around long.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    Originally posted by Arcondo87
    play Salem its plent complex....20 ore will yeld u 1 ingot, 2 IF your lucky. Skills are time consuming to lvl and certain things r difficult to build. Best sandbox i ever played

    I dont think taking simple unexciting tasks and stretching them into time consuming chores qualifies as complex crafting.  If its not fun and just takes more time then its a failure.  SWG made crafting fun as hell, interesting, rewarding, the more effort you put into it the more you got out of it and not in the sense of hitting more rocks because it takes more of something to make an ingot.

    I agree. People are saying that SWG isn't complex, but compared to the MMO's of today, I would say it is very complex. I think people are confusing crafting in Pre-NGE with NGE crafting. I feel that NGE crafting was still more complex than anything else out right now. And, if you count beastmaster as crafting, no one can tell me that it wasn't complex.

  • ArezonArezon Posts: 278Member Uncommon
    Fallen Earth's crafting is pretty good. If you haven't tried it, you should.

    image

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arezon
    Fallen Earth's crafting is pretty good. If you haven't tried it, you should.

    I would give Fallen Earth another try, but when I last tried it, it kept knocking out my internet when it updated. There were several other people having the same issue and FE had no fix for it. So, I gave up and uninstalled it. 

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    I don't think it is resource well spent to make complex crafting in a combat centric game, and many MMOs are combat centric.

    There are crafting focus games like Tales of the Desert.

  • idgaradidgarad NOwhere, MNPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by bigsmiff
    Originally posted by idgarad
    Originally posted by bigsmiff

    I started crafting in SWG and I am now ruined with all other MMO's. After dealing with the complexity of SWG's system, I can't find anything else that is even close. In SWG, I would spend a whole day doing nothing but scanning for resources, putting down harvesters, checking my factories, crafting items and then doing my vendor work.

    Do you think we will ever see anything like it again?

     

     

     

    You think SWG was complex? *snicker*

     

    Obligatory: Try Eve Online if you want Complex Crafting. Try the production chain for a Titan.

    I tried Eve and I wasn't impressed at all. But, I didn't find the game fun enough to stick around long.

    Eve is fun like model trains are fun. Eve is more a hobby then a game. Of course I find most MMOs more Hobby then game.

  • KeushpuppyKeushpuppy Wenatchee, WAPosts: 118Member Uncommon

     i hope so.  one of the best i have seen for crafting was a game called Horizon. game was bad but crafting was awesome. not only could make anything but there was no auction house. All the bigger cities had a local consignment/market house. So to make money you made different items for the different races then went around and stocked your markets. some things sold better in different towns then others. you made every thing all the way up to and including the houses, buildings. there were masons. carpenters roofers all needed to finish a building to you had to do a lot of bartering with skills unless you made lots of gold. adventurers made good gold just harvesting drops from kills for crafters or you could make a dedicated harveter to gather and make money. to bad the game suxed when trying to adventure / fight.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    Did you try Vanguard's crafting?

    It has some depth.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    I appreciate the third option. *tips hat*

    Also, has there ever been crafting with depth?

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • CecropiaCecropia The Great White North, ONPosts: 3,471Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    I don't think it is resource well spent to make complex crafting in a combat centric game, and many MMOs are combat centric.

    There are crafting focus games like Tales of the Desert.

    EVE does it so well though. They have created the perfect environment for a symbiotic relationship between PVPers and PVEers. It is a great example of resources well spent.

    So sorry, but I don't buy it. I know first hand that you are wrong.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,207Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by idgarad
    Originally posted by bigsmiff
    Originally posted by idgarad
    Originally posted by bigsmiff

    I started crafting in SWG and I am now ruined with all other MMO's. After dealing with the complexity of SWG's system, I can't find anything else that is even close. In SWG, I would spend a whole day doing nothing but scanning for resources, putting down harvesters, checking my factories, crafting items and then doing my vendor work.

    Do you think we will ever see anything like it again?

     

     

     

    You think SWG was complex? *snicker*

     

    Obligatory: Try Eve Online if you want Complex Crafting. Try the production chain for a Titan.

    I tried Eve and I wasn't impressed at all. But, I didn't find the game fun enough to stick around long.

    Eve is fun like model trains are fun. Eve is more a hobby then a game. Of course I find most MMOs more Hobby then game.

    The problem with EVE is it isn't a 3D game, it's basically just text : 

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    I don't think it is resource well spent to make complex crafting in a combat centric game, and many MMOs are combat centric.

    There are crafting focus games like Tales of the Desert.

    EVE does it so well though. They have created the perfect environment for a symbiotic relationship between PVPers and PVEers. It is a great example of resources well spent.

    So sorry, but I don't buy it. I know first hand that you are wrong.

    Combat could always be better if it was the sole focus. Remember that. Jack of all trades is a master of none.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • GwapoJoshGwapoJosh Auburn, INPosts: 989Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Onomas

    The repopulation and archeage (if i read right) will have indepth crafting.

    But crafting in SWG wasnt complex, just indepth. Had 4 crafters :)

    Just some people want everything right away and wont slow down to try a good crafting system. Why its usualy put on the back burner in newer MMO's :(

    The Repopulation will have great crafting. I'm pretty damn excited to try it out :)

    "You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
    image

  • DarkOmegaDarkOmega Comox, BCPosts: 28Member
    Originally posted by tixylix
    Originally posted by idgarad
    Originally posted by bigsmiff
    Originally posted by idgarad
    Originally posted by bigsmiff

    I started crafting in SWG and I am now ruined with all other MMO's. After dealing with the complexity of SWG's system, I can't find anything else that is even close. In SWG, I would spend a whole day doing nothing but scanning for resources, putting down harvesters, checking my factories, crafting items and then doing my vendor work.

    Do you think we will ever see anything like it again?

     

     

     

    You think SWG was complex? *snicker*

     

    Obligatory: Try Eve Online if you want Complex Crafting. Try the production chain for a Titan.

    I tried Eve and I wasn't impressed at all. But, I didn't find the game fun enough to stick around long.

    Eve is fun like model trains are fun. Eve is more a hobby then a game. Of course I find most MMOs more Hobby then game.

    The problem with EVE is it isn't a 3D game, it's basically just text : 

    I think you are very confused about which game is Eve. If you had tried it at all you would be a bit more informed then your post implies.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,765Member Uncommon

    If banging your head against a wall for a week trying to figure out how to craft something is your idea of complex, then Uncharted Waters Online has complex crafting.

    -----

    The basic problem with crafting is that a large fraction of players don't like it.  If every time they want better gear, they have to track down a crafter who can make it for them, they're likely to get annoyed, quit, and go play some other game where the best gear comes from mob drops or whatever.

    That means that a game with good crafting is likely to be populated mostly by people who like crafting and want to craft their own gear.  It's hard to sell crafted gear to someone who prefers to craft his own, which means that there isn't much of a market for it.  You can create artificial restrictions that make it so that a given player can only craft a handful of things himself, but how good is complex crafting if you're not allowed to touch most of it?

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member
    Greed Monger is looking like it will have great potential.
  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    ...snip

    The basic problem with crafting is that a large fraction of players don't like it.  If every time they want better gear, they have to track down a crafter who can make it for them, they're likely to get annoyed, quit, and go play some other game where the best gear comes from mob drops or whatever.

    ...snip

    Wait, are you saying that you actually heard of someone leaving a game because they had to either search an auction house for crafted gear or pay someone for it?

     

    Who are these people. Are they the ones telling us mmos are all about teamwork, grouping, and socialization but are ashamed to ask someone to make them something? Is it cleaner from the mob or dungeon boss rather than from a crafter's hand. Are they germaphobes lol

     

    I've never heard of one person leaving a game because they had to buy crafted gear. If you don't craft you usually sell harvested materials to crafters and make back the cost of buying anything they sell.

     

    Serious as a heart attack here - you really know someone that left a game because they would have had to buy crafted gear? There aren't that many games that even have crafted gear as the high end stuff. I don't fathom this, was the post a joke that passed over me. Sounds like craft-cism to me and I shant be party to it.

     

     

     

  • centkincentkin Asbury, NJPosts: 943Member Uncommon

    The problem with crafting these days is that the whole mmothink is that group activities produce good items and solo activities produce awful items.  Hence they see crafting as a solo one-off activity and hence crafting tends to make items that are not as good as "camp this monster" will get you.  At best they end up using things like raid drops as components.  But that is more an augmentation system than a crafting system.

    In my opinion you will not see the next jump in crafting until you see GROUP crafting.  Have a dynamic system where you have multiple crafters working together co-operatively where any one of them can mess up the item and you will see items worth crafting.

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