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Originally posted by bigsmiff Originally posted by Robokapp Can anyone name one good F2P that they played for years ?
that's a P2P game that 'couldn't make it".
I was referring to a game that was created for the F2P market from start. not wanna-be P2P quality at F2P prices. that's cheating.
Originally posted by Robokapp the f2p fad has already passed... it's quite obvious. Can anyone name one good F2P that they played for years ?
Why a "good" F2P game has to be played for years.
Dead Space is a great game. I play it for like 2-3 weeks.
I would much prefer a very fun 4 week MMO, than a mediocre 2 year one.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Robokapp the f2p fad has already passed... it's quite obvious. Can anyone name one good F2P that they played for years ?
I wouldn't play a mediocre mmo for more than a week, if that. I have however played "very fun" mmos for as long as 6 years. Great mmos keep you coming back for more. Hell, we have a plethora of other gaming genres that cater to the "cheap thrills" type of gameplay. When I'm in the mood for that sort of fun, I pick one of those. A well done mmo shouldn't give you a reason to abandon ship in such a hurry.
The increasing homogenization of the genre combined with a long history of stagnation, doesn't paint a very healthy picture for the future of what could have been something unique in gaming.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by Cecropia
"something unique in gaming"? How can MMOs be somethign unique in gaming when there are so many entries, and millions play them?
I see it as just another genre like FPS, or ARPG. It is as unique as that.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by aWRAY Yes, Free to Play is the future. But do you really think the developers are doing this for the sake of us gamers? Hell no. It's all about the money now. Here is a direct quote from EA CEO John Riccitiello from a stockholder meeting last year. “When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you’re really not that price sensitive at that point in time." Free to Play? Yes Free to Enjoy? Not so much
If you don't enjoy it, why do you play?
I say "Free to play *and* enjoy".
I wouldn't be playing a game if I wasn't enjoying it. And i sure as hell wouldn't play a game if it's a necessity to dip into the cash shop to be on the same playing field as the paying players.
Based on your posts in this thread, there is no way anyone can convince you otherwise. Enjoy what is to come.
I really don't see F2P being the future since there's no real way to do it right to benefit us players. Take a look at EQ2 for example. You can pay $15 a month, and for what? Most of the content being added is to the store instead of the game. So you spend more time buying content that should already be included since you pay $15.
And look at the fact that you still pay for expansions and all the previous players that payed hundreds on the game and expansions only to be screwed out and have to pay for stuff again (I'm talking about race/class packs).
I would rather buy the game and be able to earn everything by PLAYING it.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Cecropia
I came into the genre because it was unique. For me, playing in the World of the Warcraft universe on a massive scale was such an exciting prospect, and it certainly delivered in 2004. If it had been just another cheap thrills genre I wouldn't even be posting on this site. I would have just continued playing RTS/FPS games (which I still play) and just left it at that.
This genre offered something that the others simply did not. It's such a shame that it is slowly losing what made it great and morphing into some crap frankengenre that doesn't do anything particularly well, while it's cousins supply quality in spades.
i think many people wish for f2p games, but theyr communist vision of truly free 2 play is like a utopia, wich will never happen.
Forever With You...
Originally posted by NorseGod What happened? I see lots of complaints about the "free" games here.
Where do these posters come from? There is no such thing as a free game. Every game that lists themselves as free will at some point require you to spend money on it.
League of Legends
Team Fortress 2
World of Tanks
All designed for f2p, all doing well, for years.
DDO and LoTRO are also doing nicely on f2p although not orginally designed for it.
LoL and DDO I have played for years now.
LoL and TF2 are admirable games but not MMOs.
WoT ... I debate how MMO it is also. But I can't comment as I haven't played.
Games can be F2P. MMORPGs however are a different story. Addictinggames.com is full of f2p games for example.
The Only F2P that I played for a long time and was born F2P is Travian. the browser 'queue stuff, take other players' stuff make city, join alliance" type. And it's very far from mainsteam to the point where its an odd exception - and even so most don't like it.
Also, the original players that played Lotro before F2P are saying the game went really downhill after F2P
Just becosue the game has many players doesnt mean its good, just look at WoW (ohno i didnt!)
Thanks,MikeWorking on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
Damn right I am and don't forget it.
Just to be clear, I have money. I just don't always have time to play so if you want to add grind make it passive so I don't need to waste the 3 hrs I do have to play pummeling some under powered AI for gold or a rock that has a 60 minute mine time to 5 minute craft time.
I prefer subscriptions. It lets me control my spending. I do like free to try but with games breaking 50 GB it's neither here or there if I need to pay $20.00
Name me an MMORPG ( I said MMORPG ) that could be called top quality tripple A and I will call you a liar.
Every single sub based game that has failed has gone free to play in an attempt to save it. Every Free to play game that has released has done so poorly.
The true survivors are the games that have remained with a solid sub base for years and years. WoW and Eve are the two best examples. The crazy thing about Eve Online is that it is the TRUE free to play MMO. If you're good enough you need never spend a dime and get everything that others get from item shops and subscriptions, and people do this often.
Any MMO that sticks to cosmetic items only is fine by me, but the moment you limit exp/slots/characters/classes etc I am out.
Originally posted by Enerzeal Name me an MMORPG ( I said MMORPG ) that could be called top quality tripple A and I will call you a liar. Every single sub based game that has failed has gone free to play in an attempt to save it. Every Free to play game that has released has done so poorly. The true survivors are the games that have remained with a solid sub base for years and years. WoW and Eve are the two best examples. The crazy thing about Eve Online is that it is the TRUE free to play MMO. If you're good enough you need never spend a dime and get everything that others get from item shops and subscriptions, and people do this often. Any MMO that sticks to cosmetic items only is fine by me, but the moment you limit exp/slots/characters/classes etc I am out.
At least 2 games have gone f2p not because there were failed, weren't making a profit and weren't good games but because the devs believed f2p would make even more money.
Both lotro and EQ2 were/are good games in the black with expansions for years before f2p came along.
I think its mainly the restrictions that what I call "leechers" whine and moan about, they expect something for nothing or no effort at all, I would assume most of the F2P crowd expect a game to be free with no restrictions at all, problem is how can a studio make a living by letting freeloaders play their entire game completely free? You can't....
I have to laugh because the timing of this thread is superb for me. I recently came from a business conference where online monetization models were discussed. The discussion focused on which models were 1.) sustainable, 2.) grew customers over a period of time, and 3.) provided high levels of customer satisfaction and value. It was about online monetization in general (not just the MMO industry), yet the MMO F2P cash shop model (i.e., micro-transactions) was discussed. Guess what - it was noted to be the WORST business model any company could adopt (The speaker, a well-known successful entrepreneur turned VC, says that the second they hear a monetiztion model involving miro-transactions they end the meeting because they know it is NOT a sustainable model).
The main reasons for this being the tremendous decline in customer satisfaction (i.e., it leaves people feeling exploited rather than getting value for their money). It was noted as worse than the cell phone providers (which are pretty bad) and cable companies (which are also bad). An example used was how EA was noted as the worst company because of this decline in customer satisfaction, yet it is known on a myriad of other factors there are worse companies than EA. The speaker made a joke about how the MMO industry lacked good business people as the whole industry was like sheep being lead to slaughter. Then he mentioned how Zynga saw early success with micro-transactions and that the business model went off a cliff. In other words, it was stated that micro-transactions are NOT a sustainable model.
As an aside, he also noted how they would love to invest in the space, but after four years of hearing pitches they have come to the conclusion that the industry has some of the most passionate developers of any industry ( a huge plus), yet is lead by the dumbest f***s for business people, who knew NOTHING about their customers, of any industry (a huge triple negative). He also noted that the people that lead these design teams, have bigger undeserved egos than all of Hollywood combined, and that most of these people are terrible at their jobs but think they are gods gift to the gaming world (which elicited quite a few laughs). He also noted that if there were any entreprenuers from OUTSIDE the industry that enjoyed gaming, it was a space RIPE for major disruption because it was too insular in it's thinking - just like other industries that have been disrupted.
Secondly, a stat I found interesting, that across many online industries, MMO gaming companies (followed closely by those that utilize heavy DLC) overall have the WORST reputations and suffer from long-term sustainablity in customer retention (nice place to be associated with). I found it funny that Turbine was used as the example as a company that once had a stellar reputation that in the space of two years, completely trashed that rep and has become known as a pariah. He noted how the effect of this was that, no matter the future product, the company has already put themselves "in the hole" with succeeding with any future endeavors.
Lastly, micro-transactions actually DECREASE customers over time on average. (Yes, there are a few examples the other way, but they are rare) and DECREASE the available customer base to companies as their reputations (like Zynga's) suffer and therefore future products fail to take-off (like EAs), and meet expectations.
The speaker concluded that "freemium" was the best model to meet the criteria moted above. The downside was that freemium actually requires a company to produce real value for customers (rather than "rip-them off", which were the words used in the conference when referring to micro-transactions) in order to get them to pay. He alsso concluded on how valuable BRAND reputation was in both adding value to a company as well as destroying it (again noting both EA and Zynga).
So, to the subject of the post, I think F2P is the future of the genre, but not micro-transactions which I believe is going to give the entire industry a very hard crash much like Zynga has suffered.
TL;DR F2P is future, but not in current iteration. Micro-transactions cash shops (especially with RNG) need to go. F2P needs to stay and companies need to focus on actually providing value for the money.
I dont know why I have to say this again because its the utter truth.
F2P is not the future. The reason recent sub games have failed is because they are either buggy or WoW clones. If GW2 was the messiah people would sub to it. If Swtor was truly amazing people wouldnt have a problem paying a sub. The model isnt the issue its the games.
Name me one extremely good F2P game that was F2P out of the gate. WoT? Grind fest and not really an mmo, Lol? Moba not an mmo, GW2? B2P, finally Path of Exile, can be argued that its an mmo but its really a coop action game. Thats right there isnt one. All those converted F2P games went that way to save it because of poor design choices. Warhammer was buggy and unfinished, AoC buggy and no endgame, VG buggy as all hell, AION grindy, SWTOR no endgame and the endgame it has was buggy. Then only ones left are RIft which trion themselves have said they are no where near close to f2p expecially after an extremely successful launch of SL, TSW which is on a prescipice atm, it has poor sub rates but a enthusiatic community and dev team which is pushing out new content every 1-2 months, and finally WoW which is IMO the BEST themepark mmo made so it doesnt need F2p. If people wanted to play a wow clone they would just play wow.
Ill say it again if for example SWTOR was the best mmo ever made and was truly revolutionary then you would see sub numbers in the millions. The model isnt the problem its the games.
And as it stands the only true F2P game is Aion which gives the whole game to you and allows you to buy cosmetic and xp boosts in its shop. F2P right now is nothing more then a glorified trial trying to bait you into subbing or spending MORE then 15$ in the cash shop.
Playing: War Thunder, World of Warcraft, and Grim DawnWaiting on:Everquest Next and The Black Desert
Originally posted by DSWBeef F2P is not the future. The reason recent sub games have failed is because they are either buggy or WoW clones. If GW2 had a sub people would still flock to it. If Swtor was truly amazing people wouldnt have a problem paying a sub. The model isnt the issue its the games.
Sorry, but if GW2 had sub many wouldn't have bought it. People who bought it were tired of Gear grind and subscription fee.
I was one of those seeing GW2 as the new Messiah of MMOs. After a month I CBA to log in again, too boring.
Playing ATM: Black Desert, Xbox OneMMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profileKICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)
Originally posted by MikeJezZ Originally posted by DSWBeef F2P is not the future. The reason recent sub games have failed is because they are either buggy or WoW clones. If GW2 had a sub people would still flock to it. If Swtor was truly amazing people wouldnt have a problem paying a sub. The model isnt the issue its the games.
I guess your right about GW2, But if it was the messiah would you have subbed?
Originally posted by DSWBeef Originally posted by MikeJezZ Originally posted by DSWBeef F2P is not the future. The reason recent sub games have failed is because they are either buggy or WoW clones. If GW2 had a sub people would still flock to it. If Swtor was truly amazing people wouldnt have a problem paying a sub. The model isnt the issue its the games.
I wouldn't have subbed. I won't pay a monthly fee to play any game. Yet I have been spending money in their cash shop.
It’s simple really, the companies that back these games make more money providing F2P games then they do on subscription games. That should tell you something.
Free to Play games have a visible life cycle. At first they lure people in with low prices & a fairly even playing field. As popularity rises so do prices, while the ability to compete without paying drops. This continues until pretty much all that’s left are the Pay to Win players who eventually figure out that the playing field has once again evened out, but at a very high price. LOL
So if I’m going to spend my money on a game, I’ll always choose a subscription game. It’s absolutely going to be cheaper & I prefer an even playing field where my skill & talent mean something. I'm always amused by the people who spend more money on "Free to Play" games then they would on a subscription.