Why waste time on big beautiful cities when players only visit the small Auction House area?

Dauzqul · November 2012

So much time goes into these gigantic starter cities. Why do developers continue to neglect the potential of a fantastic city life?

There are so many things the developers can do for our main cities!

INNs and Taverns with mini-games such as card gambling etc (Players can bet and gamble their in-game money with other players).
Cosmetic Surgery, Tattoo Shops, and Barber Shops. (A place where players can go to re-design their character or delve into exotic tattoos or hairstyles that were not included during your first character creation process).
Combat Training Arenas (I'm not talking about Battlegrounds. I hate Battlegrounds. What I mean is just an area for players of the same faction to practice combat combos and tactics).
Rentable Goods Tents (It's obvious that the cities have limited space in their commerce area. However, if a player has enough money, he or she can rent a tent for the day to sell their goods right in the middle of town. It would be like going to a real market to buy goods).
Race Track (The developer team, at least once per week, should have a race on the city's main track via horse, mount, pod racer, or whatever fits the genre. Players are able to gather together and gamble on the race.)
A Bounty Board or Guild (If proper sanctions are in place, real player bounties can work, e.g., if a player continually kills lowbies, then that player will be placed on the Bounty Boards. If that player dies, he or she will drop all their coin. Just an idea...)
Banks (Duh).
Clubs and Cantinas (Games need social classes and incentives to play them. You may not one who enjoys playing music via LoTRO's playable instruments or dancing, but there are many who truley enjoy such things. If anything, it makes the entire game more enjoyable for everyone - seeing the hustle n' bustle of city life.)
Crafting Chambers (If you can't afford your own house and crafting equipment, then you can purchase a daily pass to the city's crafting chamber. Use some of the best equipment to craft your goods right in the city.)

I don't know... I'd like just like see these cities offer more than just one room with an Auction House and Mail Box.

MMOPlaya · November 2012

I agree whole-heartedly. Make those cities come alive, offer a reason for us to visit and hang-out! What specifically comes to mind were the cantinas in Star Wars Galaxies. The hub of all the action!

Elikal · November 2012

Epic post, MMODAD! I agree with everything!

Creating such social hubs is one of THE most important task of any MMO. I would add three points:

- a social hub must be placed in a central, easy to get place.

- a social hub be be reachable by lowbies of the earliest level (like in WOW)

- a social hub must be like a living city, full of animated stuff, like in GW2 or WOW

TheScavenger · November 2012

Originally posted by mmoDAD
So much time goes into these gigantic starter cities. Why do developers continue to neglect the potential of a fantastic city life?

There are so many things the developers can do for our main cities!

INNs and Taverns with mini-games such as card gambling etc (Players can bet and gamble their in-game money with other players).

World of Warcraft has Inn and Taverns. Often I see people hanging in them and chatting/roleplaying. No mini games though.

Cosmetic Surgery, Tattoo Shops, and Barber Shops. (A place where players can go to re-design their character or delve into exotic tattoos or hairstyles that were not included during your first character creation process).

Already done in world of warcraft

Combat Training Arenas (I'm not talking about Battlegrounds. I hate Battlegrounds. What I mean is just an area for players of the same faction to practice combat combos and tactics).

large amounts of people duel outside orgrimmar and stormwind

Rentable Goods Tents (It's obvious that the cities have limited space in their commerce area. However, if a player has enough money, he or she can rent a tent for the day to sell their goods right in the middle of town. It would be like going to a real market to buy goods).

This would be a great feature

Race Track (The developer team, at least once per week, should have a race on the city's main track via horse, mount, pod racer, or whatever fits the genre. Players are able to gather together and gamble on the race.)

Add a top score list and some rewards, and people will do it. They'll do it for the top score alone. No top score...it wouldn't last long.

A Bounty Board or Guild (If proper sanctions are in place, real player bounties can work, e.g., if a player continually kills lowbies, then that player will be placed on the Bounty Boards. If that player dies, he or she will drop all their coin. Just an idea...)

EVE has a bounty system, it doesn't work (people get alts/friends to kill the bountied person), but the expansion aims to fix it

Banks (Duh).

What MMO doesn't have banks? Not one I'll play.

Clubs and Cantinas (Games need social classes and incentives to play them. You may not one who enjoys playing music via LoTRO's playable instruments or dancing, but there are many who truley enjoy such things. If anything, it makes the entire game more enjoyable for everyone - seeing the hustle n' bustle of city life.)

Seems similar to inns/taverns. Am I missing a difference? Can't one play music at a tavern?

Crafting Chambers (If you can't afford your own house and crafting equipment, then you can purchase a daily pass to the city's crafting chamber. Use some of the best equipment to craft your goods right in the city.)

World of Warcraft and Everquest 2 both have crafting areas...EQ2 more so since it is more tightly packed and in WoW it is spread out

I don't know... I'd like just like see these cities offer more than just one room with an Auction House and Mail Box.

darkhalf357x · November 2012

Originally posted by TheScavenger
Originally posted by mmoDAD
So much time goes into these gigantic starter cities. Why do developers continue to neglect the potential of a fantastic city life?

There are so many things the developers can do for our main cities!

INNs and Taverns with mini-games such as card gambling etc (Players can bet and gamble their in-game money with other players).

World of Warcraft has Inn and Taverns. Often I see people hanging in them and chatting/roleplaying. No mini games though.

Cosmetic Surgery, Tattoo Shops, and Barber Shops. (A place where players can go to re-design their character or delve into exotic tattoos or hairstyles that were not included during your first character creation process).

Already done in world of warcraft

Combat Training Arenas (I'm not talking about Battlegrounds. I hate Battlegrounds. What I mean is just an area for players of the same faction to practice combat combos and tactics).

large amounts of people duel outside orgrimmar and stormwind

Rentable Goods Tents (It's obvious that the cities have limited space in their commerce area. However, if a player has enough money, he or she can rent a tent for the day to sell their goods right in the middle of town. It would be like going to a real market to buy goods).

This would be a great feature

Race Track (The developer team, at least once per week, should have a race on the city's main track via horse, mount, pod racer, or whatever fits the genre. Players are able to gather together and gamble on the race.)

Add a top score list and some rewards, and people will do it. They'll do it for the top score alone. No top score...it wouldn't last long.

A Bounty Board or Guild (If proper sanctions are in place, real player bounties can work, e.g., if a player continually kills lowbies, then that player will be placed on the Bounty Boards. If that player dies, he or she will drop all their coin. Just an idea...)

EVE has a bounty system, it doesn't work (people get alts/friends to kill the bountied person), but the expansion aims to fix it

Banks (Duh).

What MMO doesn't have banks? Not one I'll play.

Clubs and Cantinas (Games need social classes and incentives to play them. You may not one who enjoys playing music via LoTRO's playable instruments or dancing, but there are many who truley enjoy such things. If anything, it makes the entire game more enjoyable for everyone - seeing the hustle n' bustle of city life.)

Seems similar to inns/taverns. Am I missing a difference? Can't one play music at a tavern?

Crafting Chambers (If you can't afford your own house and crafting equipment, then you can purchase a daily pass to the city's crafting chamber. Use some of the best equipment to craft your goods right in the city.)

World of Warcraft and Everquest 2 both have crafting areas...EQ2 more so since it is more tightly packed and in WoW it is spread out

I don't know... I'd like just like see these cities offer more than just one room with an Auction House and Mail Box.

WOW does have all the things you mention, but lacks a truly open world. The quest mechanic in the game (while done very well) systematically takes you in a straight line from level 1 to end game.

Im also a strong proponent of housing. Whats the point of me collecting all of this in-game stuff if I have no where to really put it?

Agree with OP. Developers today don't build games for social aspects, but just enough content to run through to get to end game at which point you repeat the same mechanic over and over for better and better gear. If I do a Raid I shouldn't have to do it over again (especially if I know whats going to happen). But the 'daily' interactions back into the game itself and let me DECIDE what I want to do.

dreamsofwar · November 2012

You know concerning the part about card games, I've been wondering why WoW hasn't implemented its trading card game into WoW yet, it would make them more money because it would generate interest.

Dauzqul · November 2012

Originally posted by TheScavenger
Originally posted by mmoDAD
So much time goes into these gigantic starter cities. Why do developers continue to neglect the potential of a fantastic city life?

There are so many things the developers can do for our main cities!

INNs and Taverns with mini-games such as card gambling etc (Players can bet and gamble their in-game money with other players).

World of Warcraft has Inn and Taverns. Often I see people hanging in them and chatting/roleplaying. No mini games though.

Cosmetic Surgery, Tattoo Shops, and Barber Shops. (A place where players can go to re-design their character or delve into exotic tattoos or hairstyles that were not included during your first character creation process).

Already done in world of warcraft

Combat Training Arenas (I'm not talking about Battlegrounds. I hate Battlegrounds. What I mean is just an area for players of the same faction to practice combat combos and tactics).

large amounts of people duel outside orgrimmar and stormwind

Rentable Goods Tents (It's obvious that the cities have limited space in their commerce area. However, if a player has enough money, he or she can rent a tent for the day to sell their goods right in the middle of town. It would be like going to a real market to buy goods).

This would be a great feature

Race Track (The developer team, at least once per week, should have a race on the city's main track via horse, mount, pod racer, or whatever fits the genre. Players are able to gather together and gamble on the race.)

Add a top score list and some rewards, and people will do it. They'll do it for the top score alone. No top score...it wouldn't last long.

A Bounty Board or Guild (If proper sanctions are in place, real player bounties can work, e.g., if a player continually kills lowbies, then that player will be placed on the Bounty Boards. If that player dies, he or she will drop all their coin. Just an idea...)

EVE has a bounty system, it doesn't work (people get alts/friends to kill the bountied person), but the expansion aims to fix it

Banks (Duh).

What MMO doesn't have banks? Not one I'll play.

Clubs and Cantinas (Games need social classes and incentives to play them. You may not one who enjoys playing music via LoTRO's playable instruments or dancing, but there are many who truley enjoy such things. If anything, it makes the entire game more enjoyable for everyone - seeing the hustle n' bustle of city life.)

Seems similar to inns/taverns. Am I missing a difference? Can't one play music at a tavern?

Crafting Chambers (If you can't afford your own house and crafting equipment, then you can purchase a daily pass to the city's crafting chamber. Use some of the best equipment to craft your goods right in the city.)

World of Warcraft and Everquest 2 both have crafting areas...EQ2 more so since it is more tightly packed and in WoW it is spread out

I don't know... I'd like just like see these cities offer more than just one room with an Auction House and Mail Box.

Yeah. Many of the listed features are in games. They just don't feel right, though. It's like someone throwing you a soccer ball on a tennis court.

VengeSunsoar · November 2012

Originally posted by mmoDAD
So much time goes into these gigantic starter cities. Why do developers continue to neglect the potential of a fantastic city life?

There are so many things the developers can do for our main cities!

INNs and Taverns with mini-games such as card gambling etc (Players can bet and gamble their in-game money with other players).

Cosmetic Surgery, Tattoo Shops, and Barber Shops. (A place where players can go to re-design their character or delve into exotic tattoos or hairstyles that were not included during your first character creation process).

Combat Training Arenas (I'm not talking about Battlegrounds. I hate Battlegrounds. What I mean is just an area for players of the same faction to practice combat combos and tactics).

Rentable Goods Tents (It's obvious that the cities have limited space in their commerce area. However, if a player has enough money, he or she can rent a tent for the day to sell their goods right in the middle of town. It would be like going to a real market to buy goods).

Race Track (The developer team, at least once per week, should have a race on the city's main track via horse, mount, pod racer, or whatever fits the genre. Players are able to gather together and gamble on the race.)

A Bounty Board or Guild (If proper sanctions are in place, real player bounties can work, e.g., if a player continually kills lowbies, then that player will be placed on the Bounty Boards. If that player dies, he or she will drop all their coin. Just an idea...)

Banks (Duh).

Clubs and Cantinas (Games need social classes and incentives to play them. You may not one who enjoys playing music via LoTRO's playable instruments or dancing, but there are many who truley enjoy such things. If anything, it makes the entire game more enjoyable for everyone - seeing the hustle n' bustle of city life.)

Crafting Chambers (If you can't afford your own house and crafting equipment, then you can purchase a daily pass to the city's crafting chamber. Use some of the best equipment to craft your goods right in the city.)

I don't know... I'd like just like see these cities offer more than just one room with an Auction House and Mail Box.

Lets look at WoW. People visited Inns all the time to meet, bind, sell in and out of cities

WoW has barbers in cities that people use all the time.

Wow has crafting areas and vendors in cities that people use all the time.

WoW has people selling combat items/badges/special items other than in AH in cities that people use all the time.

Wow has banks in cities that people use all the time.

So yes while I agree that there are a whole lot of other things developers can do for cities. Lets not pretend that the only reason people go to cities in these games is the AH. At least in WoW, you know the game everyone likes to rag about, people use many other areas all the time.

wordiz · November 2012

All these things is what made LOTRO so great. Minus the vendor tent rentals, that is. The level of immersion was awesome in that game. Too bad it got a rushed release, two horrible expansions and never added to the pvp aspect of the game as promised. It could have been the best game ever.

MMOPlaya · November 2012

I think a lot of the devs at this point in the genre don't realize that "socializing hubs" ARE ACTUALLY GAME CONTENT, just like dungeons, etc. to be created and devoured by the players. It provides "something to do" outside normal questing, build commaradarie, and community. Simple multi-player parlor games such as cards, or slot machines, or what-have-you would add so much to the atmosphere of the game. Sometimes it's nice to just escape real life and hang out with your guildies.

nariusseldon · November 2012

Originally posted by dreamsofwar
You know concerning the part about card games, I've been wondering why WoW hasn't implemented its trading card game into WoW yet, it would make them more money because it would generate interest.

Because they have card games in real world and that makes more money?

nariusseldon · November 2012

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Lets look at WoW. People visited Inns all the time to meet, bind, sell in and out of cities

WoW has barbers in cities that people use all the time.

Wow has crafting areas and vendors in cities that people use all the time.

WoW has people selling combat items/badges/special items other than in AH in cities that people use all the time.

Wow has banks in cities that people use all the time.

So yes while I agree that there are a whole lot of other things developers can do for cities. Lets not pretend that the only reason people go to cities in these games is the AH. At least in WoW, you know the game everyone likes to rag about, people use many other areas all the time.

I don't know anyone who uses inns in WOW. People usually meet at the bank.

sanshi44 · November 2012

Housing District would be nice aswell (not a housing instance where all playing have ther ehouses in a instance. (instance that has 100 odd housesin and thats it). But you know all those empty unused houses in cities that are just there for show why not have each of those houses a house players can buy/rent. Then you have villages throughout the place aswell. City houses generaly cost more than village but its in a prime location and so on.

nariusseldon · November 2012

Originally posted by sanshi44
Housing District would be nice aswell (not a housing instance where all playing have ther ehouses in a instance. (instance that has 100 odd housesin and thats it). But you know all those empty unused houses in cities that are just there for show why not have each of those houses a house players can buy/rent. Then you have villages throughout the place aswell. City houses generaly cost more than village but its in a prime location and so on.

There are like 20k players on a server. The cities are pretty small on that scale. There may be enough room for a dozen houses. So who get those houses?

Anything that will only benefit less than 1% of the players are probably not a good idea.

Classicstar · November 2012

In my humble opinion if there is one game that have huge beautiful city's its GW2 but its not realy worth visiting them alot most on stay in LION ARCH for bank-trade and crafting plus WvWvW portals(not realy needed eather.

Maybe new fratcals of the mist dungeon attracts more players but im affraid also concentrade around the dungeon portal thats it.

Helleri · November 2012

In Runescape the first big city there was, has:

A Massive Museum.
Castle.
A sewer dungeon.
Two churches (on evil one good).
Two different gangs you can join.
A cooking guild.
Two smithy's.
Two banks.
Sword shop
Clothing shop.
Archery shop.
Magic staff shop.
Runes shop.
Several quests and achievments tied to the area.
A fortune teller.
teleportation to botany bay where you get to pass judgement on rule breakers.
A plethra of intersting NPC interactions.
Borders a massive pk'ing area.
And only about a dozen other things like that. Not to mention the square of varrock being where most major holiday events are held (or launched from rather).

All, that and people still hang out at the Grand Exchange all day (our version of an AH). I can remember lotro having a lot to supposedly do...still every one hung out at the AH. A game like AIka...not so much there, and only one major city, though one can argue there is a lot of gambling and things to attend to... people still spend a large part of their time at the AH/banking area.

I think that is just how people are, changing things in games to force them to go against what is already their strong tendency when the alternative in most cases is provided and they ignore it would sap some of the fun, imo.

[Also, is the text on the forums all of the sudden unusually bold by default? if I wanted it bold I would click on bold]

Rydeson · November 2012

Cities and Hubs and their purpose.. I too find it sad that devs have made some great attempts at building cities such as GW2 and WoW to name a couple, but the truth is.. They have no useful purpose to the players.. Why do I say this? I remember a number of years ago listening to an interview by one of the lead devs from Blizzard talking about major hub cities that were put in the game such as Shat. and Dalaran.. Those hubs were put in the game for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only..

It was cheaper to make 1 neutral hub city then to have 2 faction cities.. Talk about being cheap and lazy? LOL
This is probably the most important reason the interview talked about.. The psychological effects city locations have on the mind.. He went on to discuss that we humans love feeling part of a group.. Have people congregate into an area gives people a false sense of belonging, and it also endorses the hype of a well accepted project.. Think about it.. We already do it with subscription numbers.. If you walk into a city that has few people in it, People will consider the game empty, boring and hense "fail".. No one is logged into the game, so therefore it's not fun or good.. So to combat that potential problem, lets artifically make "HUBS" for people to gather around because they will give the players a false sense of belonging, fun and success..

From a characters point of view, the big cities are just useless eye candy.. Anymore today, devs are just as misleading and devious as politicians.. LOL Don't trust them..

sanshi44 · November 2012

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by sanshi44
Housing District would be nice aswell (not a housing instance where all playing have ther ehouses in a instance. (instance that has 100 odd housesin and thats it). But you know all those empty unused houses in cities that are just there for show why not have each of those houses a house players can buy/rent. Then you have villages throughout the place aswell. City houses generaly cost more than village but its in a prime location and so on.

There are like 20k players on a server. The cities are pretty small on that scale. There may be enough room for a dozen houses. So who get those houses?

Anything that will only benefit less than 1% of the players are probably not a good idea.

Havant seen Divinity reach in GW2 have you if you were to also open up the outer wall for player there atleast 1k posible house spots in that city. Then there also the 20 or so building just outside the city thats are vacant.

(5minute in look at all the outer city wall the amount of buildings on it)

just means Dev will have to make real citysinstead of the small ones such as stormwind and ogrimar i use these because people are more familar with WoW. Now if u had lots of races like EQ with each of there own cities you will have 13 or so City if there the same size as divinity or bigger you wint have a problem with house spots then include villages out in the open world aswell you will have more than enough rooms.

Rydeson · November 2012

Originally posted by sanshi44
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by sanshi44
Housing District would be nice aswell (not a housing instance where all playing have ther ehouses in a instance. (instance that has 100 odd housesin and thats it). But you know all those empty unused houses in cities that are just there for show why not have each of those houses a house players can buy/rent. Then you have villages throughout the place aswell. City houses generaly cost more than village but its in a prime location and so on.

There are like 20k players on a server. The cities are pretty small on that scale. There may be enough room for a dozen houses. So who get those houses?

Anything that will only benefit less than 1% of the players are probably not a good idea.

Havant seen Divinity reach in GW2 have you if you were to also open up the outer wall for player there atleast 1k posible house spots in that city. Then there also the 20 or so building just outside the city thats are vacant.

(5minute in look at all the outer city wall the amount of buildings on it)

just means Dev will have to make real citysinstead of the small ones such as stormwind and ogrimar i use these because people are more familar with WoW. Now if u had lots of races like EQ with each of there own cities you will have 13 or so City if there the same size as divinity or bigger you wint have a problem with house spots then include villages out in the open world aswell you will have more than enough rooms.

Personally.. I like how EQ2 does playing housing and cities.. Each house and building in cities could be instanced by the owner, for it's intended use.. Whether it be a house or place of business.. Each would have their own floorplan and cost.. This could also be used in rural buildings as well.. Devs could incorporate various guild type buildings away from the cities, same with houses, and business too.. I for one would be ALL in favor of downgrading the importance of auction houses, and try to use the SWG formula of AI vendors in player owned buildings..

Imagine this.. Instead of using an AH for everything.. Change the AH so that it's open to the general public at a price.. such as 20% commission to Blizzard.. OR Players could go to a player business that is instanced within that same city and buy said product with no additional charges.. There can be a control panel witin each instanced business that controls what AI nps vendor you use, inventory and all the bells and whistles.. etc etc..

I have to say.. I miss my house in EQ2 (Halas with balconey)..

ForumPvP · November 2012

A Bounty Board or Guild (If proper sanctions are in place, real player bounties can work, e.g., if a player continually kills lowbies, then that player will be placed on the Bounty Boards. If that player dies, he or she will drop all their coin. Just an idea...)

Long time ago when WoW had role players playing,even in there people did this,no handholding needed on this one,and these hired killers sent you a screenshot of a dead silly.

But its not possible in there or todays games anymore anyways cos people are teleporting from instance to another instance.

azzamasin · November 2012

I think the problem is central hubs themselves. Any amount of things or no amount of things will change the fact that hubs are detrimental to the population as a whole. The best games I ever played always had alot of smaller areas, towns, hamlets and villages that guilds called home, not some place the devs said was your home. Im speaking of Asherons Call in this regard.

If you wanted to socilaize you had multiple choices and not just 1 central area.

Icewhite · November 2012

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
So yes while I agree that there are a whole lot of other things developers can do for cities. Lets not pretend that the only reason people go to cities in these games is the AH. At least in WoW, you know the game everyone likes to rag about, people use many other areas all the time.

The main problem seems to be the attempted application of a yes/no argument to a topic with huge shades of grey.

if (a) they use it less than (some other game I remember from yore) then (they don't use it for ANYthing but an Auction House!!!)

As an aside, the WoW developers use "we want people to get use from the cities" as an excuse NOT to include Housing. A similar logical all-or-nothing failing.

If (they use it some, all the time) then (they don't use it for ANYthing but an Auction House!!!)

If (you see games worlds in only absolutes) then (you're always damn unhappy!!!)

If (you see game worlds in absolutes) then (welcome, it must be Sunday!!!)

Icewhite · November 2012

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

I don't know anyone who uses inns in WOW. People usually meet at the bank.

nudge goldshire nudge nudge wink wink say no more.

Lockable doors used to be a selling point of some games...really social *nudge* ones...

Quirhid · November 2012

Players will never inhabit cities like some players would want to so why even bother? Fill the city with NPCs walking around picking their noses.

Even with those suggestions I wouldn't waste my time there.

BadSpock · November 2012

Bless is looking to do housing correctly IMO - all the houses AND shops are in the game world at launch and owned by NPCs, players purchase home from NPCs in the already established cities.

Like Fable games kinda.

Perfect way to do housing/shops in a MMO.

Only way to do it right actually.

JeroKane · November 2012

Originally posted by Quirhid
Players will never inhabit cities like some players would want to so why even bother? Fill the city with NPCs walking around picking their noses.

Even with those suggestions I wouldn't waste my time there.

In EverQuest 2 lots of players used to hang out in Qeynos and Freeport, because there was tons of things to do.

Then years later came the Guild Halls and players just moved there.

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Why waste time on big beautiful cities when players only visit the small Auction House area?

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Why waste time on big beautiful cities when players only visit the small Auction House area?

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