theres really no need to google answers in most mmos since the quest logs and quest tracker points specifically to the solution, but yeah i would definitely play that mmorpg in which both google and the quest tracker arent holding my hand.
From a purely role playing perspective, who wouldn't put you on a task and not tell you WHERE to go. Sure, occasional quests could just say "A brigand stole my family heirloom and ran into the woods". But most of the times it makes sense for a questgiver to actually give you directions.
And so, if it's difficult to figure out what do do or where to go, I'd probably just play a different game.
From a purely role playing perspective, who wouldn't put you on a task and not tell you WHERE to go. Sure, occasional quests could just say "A brigand stole my family heirloom and ran into the woods". But most of the times it makes sense for a questgiver to actually give you directions.
And so, if it's difficult to figure out what do do or where to go, I'd probably just play a different game.
Who stated the quest giver wouldnt tell you where to go?
If it was possible to make a game, where GOOGLE would be no help to your questing or any website for that matter, to look up information on what you needed to do or where exactly to go... Would you play that MMORPG? Or would it be too hard or boring for you?
Just ask in chat.
You couldn't really do it in chat either, because then it would make it to a site or Google....
Originally posted by shagma Wait, you're telling me you have to google how to kill ten rats?
This exactly! Since when do you need google to find a massive flashing red X on your map, or a big neon yellow "!" on your screen. Oh how I want to play a game where I might actually need googles help.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Originally posted by mikecackle If it was possible to make a game, where GOOGLE would be no help to your questing or any website for that matter, to look up information on what you needed to do or where exactly to go... Would you play that MMORPG? Or would it be too hard or boring for you?
Well, once apon a time it was kinda like that, go to a store, or ring the gaming hotline.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
If I would play it? I would love it. No fuckin quest gps and no google? Brilliant.
Besides I don't use internet almost never anyway in games, mmorpg's included, but game made around and quest designed around - quest gps, arrows, markets, etc bore me out like hell.
Originally posted by denshing It's an implausible question because it's impossible to not be able to google for quest help.
I can't decide if this is a serious statement or not.
If not serious, well done you caught me.
If serious, thats kind of sad. How is it impossible to not use google or really any other program than the game itself?
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he meant that there is no technology right now that would prevent this from happening. If you want to play a game that way now you can, so we don't have to wait for some future game.
Sure, I'd play a game where I couldn't go online to get quest help. I played MUDs for years that way and today on MMOs I try to figure things out myself rather than find spoilers.
Originally posted by denshing It's an implausible question because it's impossible to not be able to google for quest help.
in old school games yes, but sometimes a new system may evolve where that might not be possible...
Such system will never exists, unless quests will be randomly generated and never repeat. You're forgeting that people are the main factor in this. People are posting "quest objectives", solutions, places, etc. on the most different places on net so it's kinda impossible to prevent it.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
Originally posted by denshing It's an implausible question because it's impossible to not be able to google for quest help.
in old school games yes, but sometimes a new system may evolve where that might not be possible...
Such system will never exists, unless quests will be randomly generated and never repeat. You're forgeting that people are the main factor in this. People are posting "quest objectives", solutions, places, etc. on the most different places on net so it's kinda impossible to prevent it.
Is it really impossible? I challenge your statement and provide few answers
1. random quest name
2. random npc names that spawn
3. random locations for npc
4. random objectives
What could you possible google if such system above created quest? What could you chat about in public chat even?
I won't pretend this is something new, in EQ everyone looked up everything, allakhazam was used all the time. Part of the issue in Everquest is that quests would be extremely criptic. If you did your epic without looking up your quest fights most people would be pretty annoyed with you, looking up information was a requirement.
The issue wasn't really that it was too hard , it was just the fact that in EQ the quest giver would say something like
"the dranik loyalists have hidden a gem amongst them",
so the only info you get out of this is the fact it drops in a zone where there are dranik loyalists, which could be a handful of zones and a handful of mob types, what mob actually drops the item isn't clear until a few thousand people killed the mobs and found a gem, the issue is not that no one understands the quest, the issue is that it's criptic
you could argue that you could find out this stuff on your own after a few weeks, but the item could be extremely rare and you purposely not looking something up keeping your guild waiting would mean you would not get any help
What is different now is that raids are explained online in videos and the likes, in EQ people purposely withheld information to keep an edge on other guilds.
Originally posted by denshing It's an implausible question because it's impossible to not be able to google for quest help.
in old school games yes, but sometimes a new system may evolve where that might not be possible...
Such system will never exists, unless quests will be randomly generated and never repeat. You're forgeting that people are the main factor in this. People are posting "quest objectives", solutions, places, etc. on the most different places on net so it's kinda impossible to prevent it.
Is it really impossible? I challenge your statement and provide few answers
1. random quest name
2. random npc names that spawn
3. random locations for npc
4. random objectives
What could you possible google if such system above created quest? What could you chat about in public chat even?
Didn't he just say "unless quests will be randomly generated and enever repeat"?
And i bet even if it is true, someone will do a statistical analysis (not unlike those done on D3 random items .. wth range and max and what-not) of the randomness of the quests.
Puzzle games cannot be competitive unless they are randomized nowdays unless they are designed to: only be solved once or to use google to assist.
Making content to only be completed once does not make much sense in an MMO and using google intentionally kinda breaks immersion (unless its something like TSW, but even that still breaks it for me).
That leaves randomized......yet most "randomized" things in games still have set parameters. The guy you need to find will be in one of 4 locations and he will need to be returned to one of 3 places. It is effort not well spent.
In short, puzzles do not offer competitive challenge for multiplayer games.
I'm never going to understand people who complain about this. Expecially when they need "help" to keep themselves from looking up solutions.
How about a little self control?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
It depends how well the quest description / hints were written, really. Some of the quests back in the early days of WoW were just mind-bogglingly confusing, simply because the descriptions were so vague. Ashenvale back then was a certifiable nightmare because of this.
One quest I remember told you to go northeast and look for a doohickey. Well, I searched and searched to the northeast, couldn't find a damn thing. Must have been at least an hour, a few deaths, and a LOT of frustration later that I finally caved and looked up the answer online. The quest objective... was to the southwest. Rage and a somewhat curt bug report followed.
So yes, if I couldn't look up anything outside the game for help, I would play the game IF the quests were properly written. Unless they were like LOTRO quests, screw that crap.
Quest 1: Kill 10 Grognards!
Quest 2: Go back and kill 10 more, then take the Magic McGuffins they carry!
Quest 3: Go back again and search the Piles of Stuff around the Grognard area! Oh, and kill about 30 more of them.
Quest 4: Go back to the same area again and light Grognard outhouses on fire!
Quest 5: Go back to the same area again and BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH
I'm never going to understand people who complain about this. Expecially when they need "help" to keep themselves from looking up solutions.
How about a little self control?
How about just give in and look it up? We are talking about games here. It is not like taking drugs and you need self-controls to keep you becoming an addict.
I'm never going to understand people who complain about this. Expecially when they need "help" to keep themselves from looking up solutions.
How about a little self control?
How about just give in and look it up? We are talking about games here. It is not like taking drugs and you need self-controls to keep you becoming an addict.
Puzzle games are not fun if you just look up the answers.
The problem with google and its relation to puzzle games is puzzle games cannot be competitive anymore. If there is a puzzle involved and there are multiple people in competition to solve something (such as a quest for quick leveling) and it can be looked up then it will be and it is foolish not to.
An example of a puzzle based system destroyed by information technology: Tapers in AC has certain combinations that would unlock spells. Once the forumlas were figured out it was foolish to not look up the spells rather then burn up countless mats in experimentation. Would you really grind for hours to get the materials so they could be consumed as you try to figure out the recipies for your next tier of spells?
Myself, as someone who likes to be competitive and enjoys puzzles will never again be allowed to fufill both desires at the same time. Which is sad.
If you are glad that everything it can be looked up its because you either dislike puzzles or you had some bad design thrown at you where it was needless complexity. But please be able to see it from the other side that puzzles basically cannot exist anymore.
Why would you ever need google to complete mmorpg quests?!?!
They are all mindlessly easy, go kill/collect X of X. go talk to this npc etc. The only mmorpg I can think you might need a guide to complete quests was some of the quests in runescape.
Maybe secret world has some interesting puzzle quests down the road, but all I played was the same generic kill/collect quests.
Why would you ever need google to complete mmorpg quests?!?!
They are all mindlessly easy, go kill/collect X of X. go talk to this npc etc. The only mmorpg I can think you might need a guide to complete quests was some of the quests in runescape.
Maybe secret world has some interesting puzzle quests down the road, but all I played was the same generic kill/collect quests.
Not "need" .. but it is faster than searching blindly. Easy != not time consuming. It is pretty easy to find stuff if you just want every inch of the zone. Few wants to do that.
Why would you ever need google to complete mmorpg quests?!?!
They are all mindlessly easy, go kill/collect X of X. go talk to this npc etc. The only mmorpg I can think you might need a guide to complete quests was some of the quests in runescape.
Maybe secret world has some interesting puzzle quests down the road, but all I played was the same generic kill/collect quests.
Go look up some of the key quests in EQ or the AQ scepter quest line in WoW or the taper system from AC. There are absolutely some things in MMO that if you look up how to complete them can have significant cost/time savings. Your right, not every quest has enough complexity to look up online.
I miss this soo much. Back in the EQ1 days where you could genuinely get lost and had to ask people for help. But hey I also miss going to old record shops and used book stores and finding that rre item I'd been searching after.. Meh plus and minus of the Web 2.0 age.
Why would you ever need google to complete mmorpg quests?!?!
They are all mindlessly easy, go kill/collect X of X. go talk to this npc etc. The only mmorpg I can think you might need a guide to complete quests was some of the quests in runescape.
Maybe secret world has some interesting puzzle quests down the road, but all I played was the same generic kill/collect quests.
Do you remember when NPCs did not have exclamation marks on top of their heads and you didn't even know where to get such quests for starters?
Comments
theres really no need to google answers in most mmos since the quest logs and quest tracker points specifically to the solution, but yeah i would definitely play that mmorpg in which both google and the quest tracker arent holding my hand.
From a purely role playing perspective, who wouldn't put you on a task and not tell you WHERE to go. Sure, occasional quests could just say "A brigand stole my family heirloom and ran into the woods". But most of the times it makes sense for a questgiver to actually give you directions.
And so, if it's difficult to figure out what do do or where to go, I'd probably just play a different game.
Who stated the quest giver wouldnt tell you where to go?
Regards,
Mike Cackle
My YouTube Channel
And here died the thread.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
This exactly! Since when do you need google to find a massive flashing red X on your map, or a big neon yellow "!" on your screen. Oh how I want to play a game where I might actually need googles help.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Well, once apon a time it was kinda like that, go to a store, or ring the gaming hotline.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
If I would play it? I would love it. No fuckin quest gps and no google? Brilliant.
Besides I don't use internet almost never anyway in games, mmorpg's included, but game made around and quest designed around - quest gps, arrows, markets, etc bore me out like hell.
Ahh, questline.....
How I hate that word.. questline.. why is it a line?
Regards,
Mike Cackle
My YouTube Channel
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he meant that there is no technology right now that would prevent this from happening. If you want to play a game that way now you can, so we don't have to wait for some future game.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Such system will never exists, unless quests will be randomly generated and never repeat. You're forgeting that people are the main factor in this. People are posting "quest objectives", solutions, places, etc. on the most different places on net so it's kinda impossible to prevent it.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
Is it really impossible? I challenge your statement and provide few answers
1. random quest name
2. random npc names that spawn
3. random locations for npc
4. random objectives
What could you possible google if such system above created quest? What could you chat about in public chat even?
Regards,
Mike Cackle
My YouTube Channel
I won't pretend this is something new, in EQ everyone looked up everything, allakhazam was used all the time. Part of the issue in Everquest is that quests would be extremely criptic. If you did your epic without looking up your quest fights most people would be pretty annoyed with you, looking up information was a requirement.
The issue wasn't really that it was too hard , it was just the fact that in EQ the quest giver would say something like
"the dranik loyalists have hidden a gem amongst them",
so the only info you get out of this is the fact it drops in a zone where there are dranik loyalists, which could be a handful of zones and a handful of mob types, what mob actually drops the item isn't clear until a few thousand people killed the mobs and found a gem, the issue is not that no one understands the quest, the issue is that it's criptic
you could argue that you could find out this stuff on your own after a few weeks, but the item could be extremely rare and you purposely not looking something up keeping your guild waiting would mean you would not get any help
What is different now is that raids are explained online in videos and the likes, in EQ people purposely withheld information to keep an edge on other guilds.
Didn't he just say "unless quests will be randomly generated and enever repeat"?
And i bet even if it is true, someone will do a statistical analysis (not unlike those done on D3 random items .. wth range and max and what-not) of the randomness of the quests.
Puzzle games cannot be competitive unless they are randomized nowdays unless they are designed to: only be solved once or to use google to assist.
Making content to only be completed once does not make much sense in an MMO and using google intentionally kinda breaks immersion (unless its something like TSW, but even that still breaks it for me).
That leaves randomized......yet most "randomized" things in games still have set parameters. The guy you need to find will be in one of 4 locations and he will need to be returned to one of 3 places. It is effort not well spent.
In short, puzzles do not offer competitive challenge for multiplayer games.
I'm never going to understand people who complain about this. Expecially when they need "help" to keep themselves from looking up solutions.
How about a little self control?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
It depends how well the quest description / hints were written, really. Some of the quests back in the early days of WoW were just mind-bogglingly confusing, simply because the descriptions were so vague. Ashenvale back then was a certifiable nightmare because of this.
One quest I remember told you to go northeast and look for a doohickey. Well, I searched and searched to the northeast, couldn't find a damn thing. Must have been at least an hour, a few deaths, and a LOT of frustration later that I finally caved and looked up the answer online. The quest objective... was to the southwest. Rage and a somewhat curt bug report followed.
So yes, if I couldn't look up anything outside the game for help, I would play the game IF the quests were properly written. Unless they were like LOTRO quests, screw that crap.
Quest 1: Kill 10 Grognards!
Quest 2: Go back and kill 10 more, then take the Magic McGuffins they carry!
Quest 3: Go back again and search the Piles of Stuff around the Grognard area! Oh, and kill about 30 more of them.
Quest 4: Go back to the same area again and light Grognard outhouses on fire!
Quest 5: Go back to the same area again and BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH
/quit
/uninstall
How about just give in and look it up? We are talking about games here. It is not like taking drugs and you need self-controls to keep you becoming an addict.
Puzzle games are not fun if you just look up the answers.
The problem with google and its relation to puzzle games is puzzle games cannot be competitive anymore. If there is a puzzle involved and there are multiple people in competition to solve something (such as a quest for quick leveling) and it can be looked up then it will be and it is foolish not to.
An example of a puzzle based system destroyed by information technology: Tapers in AC has certain combinations that would unlock spells. Once the forumlas were figured out it was foolish to not look up the spells rather then burn up countless mats in experimentation. Would you really grind for hours to get the materials so they could be consumed as you try to figure out the recipies for your next tier of spells?
Myself, as someone who likes to be competitive and enjoys puzzles will never again be allowed to fufill both desires at the same time. Which is sad.
If you are glad that everything it can be looked up its because you either dislike puzzles or you had some bad design thrown at you where it was needless complexity. But please be able to see it from the other side that puzzles basically cannot exist anymore.
Why would you ever need google to complete mmorpg quests?!?!
They are all mindlessly easy, go kill/collect X of X. go talk to this npc etc. The only mmorpg I can think you might need a guide to complete quests was some of the quests in runescape.
Maybe secret world has some interesting puzzle quests down the road, but all I played was the same generic kill/collect quests.
My blog:
Not "need" .. but it is faster than searching blindly. Easy != not time consuming. It is pretty easy to find stuff if you just want every inch of the zone. Few wants to do that.
Go look up some of the key quests in EQ or the AQ scepter quest line in WoW or the taper system from AC. There are absolutely some things in MMO that if you look up how to complete them can have significant cost/time savings. Your right, not every quest has enough complexity to look up online.
Do you remember when NPCs did not have exclamation marks on top of their heads and you didn't even know where to get such quests for starters?