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Since You're Complaining About F2P Restrictions....

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  • waveslayerwaveslayer Salisbury, NCPosts: 355Member Uncommon

    Ya GW2 manages it after you spent 60 bucks on the box, and 60 more for every add-on to come, SWtoR can be played without spending money if someone choses to play it that way, especially if the play casually.

    It amazes me how many ppl complain if they do not get everything for free. I personally gave the game a try and found my experiance to be worthy of subbing, whats 15 bucks a month. I can play for 4 months and still not  have spent as much as someone that bought GW2 when you add in the tax. 

    Right now I enjoy SWtoR, it might be next week or next month, maybe even a year or 3 from now, but when I no longer enjoy the game I will stop paying and playing and the world will still go on. Some of you ppl need to get over yourselfs, lifes to short to spend even a minute being bitter and negative.

    Godz of War I call Thee

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by waveslayer

    Ya GW2 manages it after you spent 60 bucks on the box, and 60 more for every add-on to come, SWtoR can be played without spending money if someone choses to play it that way, especially if the play casually.

    It amazes me how many ppl complain if they do not get everything for free. I personally gave the game a try and found my experiance to be worthy of subbing, whats 15 bucks a month. I can play for 4 months and still not  have spent as much as someone that bought GW2 when you add in the tax. 

    Right now I enjoy SWtoR, it might be next week or next month, maybe even a year or 3 from now, but when I no longer enjoy the game I will stop paying and playing and the world will still go on. Some of you ppl need to get over yourselfs, lifes to short to spend even a minute being bitter and negative.

    The fact you are subscribing proves that the restrictiveness forces you to sub. If you were playing the game for free and not subbing, then your comments would have more merit. Other MMOs are more playable in F2P including GW2, and you do not need to spend anything on that either.

    Subbing once or twice is worth it, but after that, it gets too repetitive and boring. For the first char you can not get enough of the game, and maybe the 2nd, as long as it is the opposite faction, but doing another then gets repetitive as 90% of the content is the same, and the monthly fee starts to become a burden.

    For new players the F2P thing may work, but for returning players it does not. As a returning player I would like to be able to play casually like once a week to go through the rest of the professions. For a start they ask you to sub to get your Cartel Coins for CE if bought and any subs before Aug 1st, which I find to be stupid, as those who quit, have no intentions on subbing, and without any CC gives not much incentive to bother as game as not been enhanced the entire time. Also as most people would have created 2 chars already, then they can not create any more, and can not even buy more .... yet

    SWTOR is less playable in F2P than other F2P games, and as can not even buy more char slots makes it totally unplayable.

    F2P is not meant to make game completely free, but playable enough so can spend very little on it and very casually with P2P for people who want to play the game virtually 24/7, SWTORs F2P does not.

    When they allow more char slots to be purchased I will then be able to play SWTOR.

    I would even accept a monthly weekend fee for about $5 - Play the game just on Sat and Sun. The more subbing options the better, with SWTORs F2P, it is basically sub or quit.

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by waveslayer

    Ya GW2 manages it after you spent 60 bucks on the box, and 60 more for every add-on to come, SWtoR can be played without spending money if someone choses to play it that way, especially if the play casually.

    It amazes me how many ppl complain if they do not get everything for free. I personally gave the game a try and found my experiance to be worthy of subbing, whats 15 bucks a month. I can play for 4 months and still not  have spent as much as someone that bought GW2 when you add in the tax. 

    Right now I enjoy SWtoR, it might be next week or next month, maybe even a year or 3 from now, but when I no longer enjoy the game I will stop paying and playing and the world will still go on. Some of you ppl need to get over yourselfs, lifes to short to spend even a minute being bitter and negative.

    Many people also paid 60$ (or much more) for SWTOR box. + sub if/when they wanted to play.

    And you didnt quite make it as F2P, did you?

  • majimaji ColognePosts: 2,003Member Uncommon
    Fallen Earth got a great F2P model. You can do about everything you can do with a paid account, you just get 25% less XP, take a bit longer for crafting, and some other "takes a bit longer" things. But you can do the same stuff as a paid account, and have all game features available.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rojo6934

    not sure which way would shut down Swtor faster, this way or keeping the subscription only.

    a good example here. PWE has many full f2p mmos, and still they make more money on a single game than swtor ever did since launch. And dont say p2w because taht only affects PvPers and the majority are PvEers who also buy fluff only. I never payed more than perhaps $80 bucks in a couple years of fun and challenging gameplay as a PvEer.

    EAWARE needs to be smarter with their Freemium model. Right now they almost look like if they wanted retribution with that model... [resub, or have nightmares with our cash shop]

    the point is, with a decent model and respect for the playerbase that is willing to support them via sub or cash shop, the game will florish. some freemiums right now have some annoying restrictions but not as insulting as Swtors one for many players

    its my opinion only, and a comment based on my experience with some freemiums and f2p

    For me, i only have 4 problems with their cash shop:

    1) make the 2 character creation limit server specific, not account wide.

    2) take away every every form of instanced pvp from my game, but let me do dungeons and raids freely.

    3) raise the ridiculous credit cap, which is too low and cant even legacy stuff

    4) gimmie my hotbars.

    im ok with the rest of the unlocks and i would pay to unlock them (IF those 4 i mentioned ever get addressed or adjusted to reflect less greed and more care towars both their game and players)....otherwise ill just move to the next game.

    The problem with that theory is that you assume that the reason TOR did so badly was the payment model. Rift used the same and it have done pretty fine

    The game have other problems and changing how people choose to pay for it wont help unless they fix the problem that made people play it a few weeks and then quit.

    Sure, this payment model isnt good, particularly limiting the multiplayer access but it seems like a hail Mary pass from EA instead of actually spending all the money they need to make the game more fun long term.

    Personally I think limiting people to 2 chars free is fine, if you want more charging for that is not really a big problem. But the game already have too little multiplayer interaction, they need to make the game more about groups and playing together with other people or most players will still tire fast.

    Putting a band aid on a gunwound just aint enough, if the game was fine from the beginning it would have done fine as P2P as well.

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member

    Also worth to mention on this free™ discussion is.

    in the past subscription included all the content SWTOR had to offer.

    now it doesnt.

    Someone might ask - why that cash shop item cant drop from monster?

    Someone might answer - because its a feature.

     

     

    Let's internet

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by waveslayer

    Ya GW2 manages it after you spent 60 bucks on the box, and 60 more for every add-on to come, SWtoR can be played without spending money if someone choses to play it that way, especially if the play casually.

    It amazes me how many ppl complain if they do not get everything for free. I personally gave the game a try and found my experiance to be worthy of subbing, whats 15 bucks a month. I can play for 4 months and still not  have spent as much as someone that bought GW2 when you add in the tax. 

    Right now I enjoy SWtoR, it might be next week or next month, maybe even a year or 3 from now, but when I no longer enjoy the game I will stop paying and playing and the world will still go on. Some of you ppl need to get over yourselfs, lifes to short to spend even a minute being bitter and negative.

    You kinda base GW2 comparision on guesses, no one knows how much the expansions will cost and you wont need them for playing. And it is not at all unlikely that you might buy the expansions for gems which you can buy for gold.... And I dont see what the tax have to do with anything, I paid $60 for GW2 including tax.

    But yeah, you can play TOR without paying for anything. The problem is really to charge for flashpoints and raids, that is a huge misstake. I dont have any problem with the rest of the things they charge for (except the hotbars, tha just seems cheap) but I dont really see how EA will earn more money on it either without revamping the game.

    The $15 fee was never really the reason TOR lost so many players, Wow and Rift have the same and get in more than enough.

    The problem was that it lacked parts in the multiplaying part and further restricting it will hurt the game even more. They should instead encourage people to play together and add more free multiplayer content. Charge for some of the classes or whatever, but dont touch the most important MMO part.

    If I just want to play with myself I dont play MMOs, I play to play with others. While I might pay for that limiting it makes it a lot harder to find people to play with.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maji
    Fallen Earth got a great F2P model. You can do about everything you can do with a paid account, you just get 25% less XP, take a bit longer for crafting, and some other "takes a bit longer" things. But you can do the same stuff as a paid account, and have all game features available.

    I can understand why EA didnt go for that, it seems like it must take leeching to the next level.

    Nah, if you want to look on a game that successfully converted you should look on DDO, its payment model would work fine.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loke666
     

    Personally I think limiting people to 2 chars free is fine, if you want more charging for that is not really a big problem.

    The 2 char limit is not fine, because it is locked at 2 and can not even buy more.  It is a gamebreaker, mainly for returning players

    You can not even create 2 more chars on another server. P2P accounts have about 50 slots total, and 12 per server. F2P gets 2 total, and can not get more, even via Cartel Coins. 2 slots vs 12 is a sixth, so on that theory they could give 8 total, and 2 per server, plus then be able to buy more (which even this is not currently available)

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,745Member Uncommon

    Listening to the chat most seem content to try the stories and are quite pleased with it and a lot of them from what you hear when asked have bought the extra bars. I am definitely not saying it was the right thing for EA to do but when they finish the stories they may all leave.

     

    In my opinion legacy should not be extended to non subscribers and therefore the 2 character slot limitation can be overcome with multiple accounts.

    image

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common
    Originally posted by nate1980

    ...how would you of done it? Keep in mind that the Cartel Market needs to offer things that nearly everyone is going to want to buy. You can't have people just playing the game for free indefinitely or only charging for things that only a select type of player would pay for. If they did that, they'd never make any money and that's the whole point in making the game F2P, to increase profits over the pure P2P model.

    I'm asking this, because people keep complaining about the restrictions. What did people expect, a free ride until they got tired of the game? To not spend any money in the near future, possibly for over a month? To only be restricted in ways that people don't mind? If players don't mind the restrictions, then they'd be less likely to pony over the dough.

    IMHO, I think people who are complaining don't deserve to be. Anytime you get something for free, you should never complain, then again, I grew up poor, so maybe I was brought up differently. 

    If I was Bioware, I would have rationed off the whole draw of the game and made F2P players pay to access it in bits and pieces. The main draw is the single player class stories. If you have to pay money to unlock each Chapter per character, then you'd accomplish two things. Get rid of the F2P players that don't ever intend to pay a dime, because they're only playing to finish off all the class stories. The second is to profit off your best feature. Sort of like unlocking content packs in DDO.

    To be fair, there are some posters who have offered solutions, though those tend to be few and far between. The majority seem to be folks that are upset because they didn't get a free ride to 50. I agree with you that Bioware should have put a limit on  the class stories. because that is the best part of the game.  I wouldn't have even bothered charging for stuff like action bars. 

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,745Member Uncommon
    I think limiting the story will cause an even worse reaction .

    image

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    I would make a better game in which the story wouldn't be the only good thing. Secondly I would never go with sub model prices of 15$ (chances are bigger that I'd make a completley different model of paying - probably some mid restriction f2p model with server infrastructure to support that model to be profitable so I don't have to bang the prices sky high and rip people off).

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • residentxresidentx Columbia, MDPosts: 88Member

    Nate1980,

     

    This game is really a single player game with MMO elements. They need to do a Starcraft arrangment. Make the single player missions downloadable and chargeable. I left the game because the game was too rich graphically. Doing grouping was painful because this game requires so much bandwidth so the latency was bad. I think a regular stream is like 100kpbs. For example, City of Heroes is 10kbps. The game client was slow and I felt like I was watching TV sometimes because of the cutcscenes. The sad part about this game is that the game is good for 1 year old but the community is too hardcore and so they needle each other online which distracts from the game.

    The game will not survive in its current implementation.

  • residentxresidentx Columbia, MDPosts: 88Member

    I disagree strongly with giving everyone access to 50. Every MMO that does has done the faceplant.

    You can get a feel for the game by playing to level 25. Finally, the worse assumption I feel this game has made was assuming

    everyone wants to play with everyone else. Give people options. Some come online for "controlled" events. Some do come

    online to play with others. Example, I love Starcraft but I don't play over the battle.net.  I don't want to become addicted to the

    useless achievement system. I only play storyline SC2. 

     

     

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member

    I thought this was obvious,  but after reading some of the complaints here I guess it's not.

    Please, do a little research on "Gratis versus libre" and figure out where SWtOR (or any "F2P" MMO) falls.

    You make me like charity

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    First off things I would not have done

    (1) the two character limit, this screws over legacy

    (2) being charged for the UI opening more hotbars. never before in any other mmo has this been done. 

    (3) put fluf in the store that folks want, like apearance gear and what not. 

    You want folks to play your free to play game andlike it.  If they like it they sub up, or they spend cash in the store to unlock or get fluf.  The current model chases folks off, nobody I know felt welcome.  All the folks in my guild went back to try it and quit within hours.   All of them saying the same thing, nothing has changed it still sucks.  

     

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by erictlewis

    First off things I would not have done

    (1) the two character limit, this screws over legacy

    (2) being charged for the UI opening more hotbars. never before in any other mmo has this been done. 

    (3) put fluf in the store that folks want, like apearance gear and what not. 

    You want folks to play your free to play game andlike it.  If they like it they sub up, or they spend cash in the store to unlock or get fluf.  The current model chases folks off, nobody I know felt welcome.  All the folks in my guild went back to try it and quit within hours.   All of them saying the same thing, nothing has changed it still sucks.  

     

    1.  The character limit makes sense.  I think it's understandable that the Legacy feature is not required to complete the game or even factors into anything during your first one or maybe two playthroughs.  If you like the game enough to want to keep playing more characters and see more end-game stuff, then it's time to subscribe.

    2.  I agree that the UI hotbar limitation feels kind of punative, but I think it's being overblown in how people are complaining about it.  While every class has a lot of skills, not all of those skills should be used by your chosen AC and Spec.  I've played quite a few characters up to and post end-game, and 3 hotbars is the most I've ever actually needed, and even then only at the end-game.  1 of the hotbars was just a utility bar for things like buffs and travel options.

    3.  I'm sure that's easily expanded upon, but they do seem to have a pretty good selection of fluff items, like moddable armor sets.

     

    As for all your friends trying it and leaving because it still sucks, I'd say that's a problem with their expectations rather than Bioware right now.  Free to Play was never advertised as changing the core gameplay experience.  It was purely advertised as a way to let people play without the upfront cost and, hopefully, decide they like it enough to subscribe.  If someone didn't like it before, their opinions probably aren't going to change about it now as a result.

    You make me like charity

  • ShodanasShodanas PatrasPosts: 896Member Uncommon
    A college at work stated that F2P players can unlock stuff not accessible to them by farming cartel points. Can anyone confirm this or was he talking BS?
  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by rojo6934

    not sure which way would shut down Swtor faster, this way or keeping the subscription only.

    a good example here. PWE has many full f2p mmos, and still they make more money on a single game than swtor ever did since launch. And dont say p2w because taht only affects PvPers and the majority are PvEers who also buy fluff only. I never payed more than perhaps $80 bucks in a couple years of fun and challenging gameplay as a PvEer.

    EAWARE needs to be smarter with their Freemium model. Right now they almost look like if they wanted retribution with that model... [resub, or have nightmares with our cash shop]

    the point is, with a decent model and respect for the playerbase that is willing to support them via sub or cash shop, the game will florish. some freemiums right now have some annoying restrictions but not as insulting as Swtors one for many players

    its my opinion only, and a comment based on my experience with some freemiums and f2p

    For me, i only have 4 problems with their cash shop:

    1) make the 2 character creation limit server specific, not account wide.

    2) take away every every form of instanced pvp from my game, but let me do dungeons and raids freely.

    3) raise the ridiculous credit cap, which is too low and cant even legacy stuff

    4) gimmie my hotbars.

    im ok with the rest of the unlocks and i would pay to unlock them (IF those 4 i mentioned ever get addressed or adjusted to reflect less greed and more care towars both their game and players)....otherwise ill just move to the next game.

    The problem with that theory is that you assume that the reason TOR did so badly was the payment model. Rift used the same and it have done pretty fine

    The game have other problems and changing how people choose to pay for it wont help unless they fix the problem that made people play it a few weeks and then quit.

    Sure, this payment model isnt good, particularly limiting the multiplayer access but it seems like a hail Mary pass from EA instead of actually spending all the money they need to make the game more fun long term.

    Personally I think limiting people to 2 chars free is fine, if you want more charging for that is not really a big problem. But the game already have too little multiplayer interaction, they need to make the game more about groups and playing together with other people or most players will still tire fast.

    Putting a band aid on a gunwound just aint enough, if the game was fine from the beginning it would have done fine as P2P as well.

    I've grouped more from 1-10 than I did RIFT after the expansion and then a lot more from 11-20 than RIFT after the expansion. It's because each planet has Heroic +2 and +4 quests, and people are actually doing them (unlike at release when it was like pulling teeth to get a group). Then there's the Flashpoints. Compared to other themepark games, this is a grouping game. 

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,925Member Uncommon

    - Remove Item Restrictions

    -Remove restrictions on group content (primarily that you gain from leveling) mostly for pvp and some dungeons

    -Remove hotbar restrictions

    -Remove space Mission limit

    +Lock raids and dungeons, particularlyuseful with 'content packs' containing some of those missions and raids, though at an affordable rate. 

    +Make crystals for weapon customization unavailable, letting those already present stay while making new ones buyable in cash shop for a cheap price.

    +Limit 1 PvP battleground and possible space missions, maybe combined with content packs. Of course keeping affordable.

    +Cosmetic goods that don't destact from the game but are appealing to player

    +More vanity pets.

    +More character customization options (its poor as is so this can easily be added.

    +Mounts (for appearances)

    +Bonus for subscribers for pvp possibly (maybe 20% increase or 20% decrease for F2p, nothing huge just an extra perk thats not massive like limiting games per week)

     

    Over-all though it would rely on content being pushed out enough to give players something to purchase. I think SWTOR could pull this off due to its story focused gameplay much like DnD if done right.

  • defector1968defector1968 Nar ShaddaaPosts: 393Member Common

    the restrictions will be good if cartel coins can be purchased via ingame content, with triple+ time but possible

    gain them only with real money is crap (so far i didnt see any CC via in-game mechanics)

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by erictlewis

    First off things I would not have done

    (1) the two character limit, this screws over legacy

    (2) being charged for the UI opening more hotbars. never before in any other mmo has this been done. 

    (3) put fluf in the store that folks want, like apearance gear and what not. 

    You want folks to play your free to play game andlike it.  If they like it they sub up, or they spend cash in the store to unlock or get fluf.  The current model chases folks off, nobody I know felt welcome.  All the folks in my guild went back to try it and quit within hours.   All of them saying the same thing, nothing has changed it still sucks.  

     

    1.  The character limit makes sense.  I think it's understandable that the Legacy feature is not required to complete the game or even factors into anything during your first one or maybe two playthroughs.  If you like the game enough to want to keep playing more characters and see more end-game stuff, then it's time to subscribe.

    2.  I agree that the UI hotbar limitation feels kind of punative, but I think it's being overblown in how people are complaining about it.  While every class has a lot of skills, not all of those skills should be used by your chosen AC and Spec.  I've played quite a few characters up to and post end-game, and 3 hotbars is the most I've ever actually needed, and even then only at the end-game.  1 of the hotbars was just a utility bar for things like buffs and travel options.

    3.  I'm sure that's easily expanded upon, but they do seem to have a pretty good selection of fluff items, like moddable armor sets.

     

    As for all your friends trying it and leaving because it still sucks, I'd say that's a problem with their expectations rather than Bioware right now.  Free to Play was never advertised as changing the core gameplay experience.  It was purely advertised as a way to let people play without the upfront cost and, hopefully, decide they like it enough to subscribe.  If someone didn't like it before, their opinions probably aren't going to change about it now as a result.

    I would like to play through more characters, and would subscribe if most of the content was not the same. You get the main class story plus the side quests that all classes do. If each class had their own side quests then it would be a different matter, and worth a sub. The game is likeable to begin with, but then when you want to create more chars then it is time to unsub as going through the same quests gets boring and you find yourself logging in one or two days per month to try and forget the quests, making $15 for that too much, and need F2P, but then you don't have the slots to do so.

    They really should not have concentrated on mergers / server consolidations, and certainly not F2P until more content was done. This is what SOE did with SWG, and it worked well, it kept a steady flow of people coming back to the game.

    If F2P was more inviting and less restrictive. then people would have stayed more, even with no new content.

    I will be able to play SWTOR again, when they let you unlock more char slots. I can not create any more in F2P, and I am not subbing, it is not worth it.

     

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy
     

    I would like to play through more characters, and would subscribe if most of the content was not the same. You get the main class story plus the side quests that all classes do. If each class had their own side quests then it would be a different matter, and worth a sub. The game is likeable to begin with, but then when you want to create more chars then it is time to unsub as going through the same quests gets boring and you find yourself logging in one or two days per month to try and forget the quests, making $15 for that too much, and need F2P, but then you don't have the slots to do so.

    They really should not have concentrated on mergers / server consolidations, and certainly not F2P until more content was done. This is what SOE did with SWG, and it worked well, it kept a steady flow of people coming back to the game.

    If F2P was more inviting and less restrictive. then people would have stayed more, even with no new content.

    I will be able to play SWTOR again, when they let you unlock more char slots. I can not create any more in F2P, and I am not subbing, it is not worth it.

     

    I don't know why people keep acting like SWG was doing so well.  It was bleeding subs from month one, and never really recovered.

    Anyway, like all games, no one is forcing you to play SWtOR.  I don't understand why you being able to unlock more character slots makes any difference when you obviously don't like the game in the first place.  It's like you have to contradicting criticisms here where the existence of the first (not worth playing due to game design) makes the existence of the second (too many F2P restrictions) moot.

    So which is it?  Do you like the game and want to be able to play it at no cost, but can't because of the restrictions are too harsh for players that don't sub?  Or do you not like the game and think it's not worth playing because things like quests are the mostly the same across various classes?

    You make me like charity

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Shodanas
    A college at work stated that F2P players can unlock stuff not accessible to them by farming cartel points. Can anyone confirm this or was he talking BS?

    I don't believe you can farm Cartel Points.  What you can do is buy stuff from the AH with ingame credits, which is flooded with cheap Item Shop stuff that people have been pulling from the gambling bags.  There are a few things you can't get through credits alone, though, mainly due to the credit cap on free players.  For example, unlocking a new species is 1.5 mil credits, which a free player can't save up for.

    Of course, if you like the game enough to want to start unlocking races and stuff, then a sub is probably the best way to go.

    You make me like charity

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