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Is Blizzard lying about WoW Sub #s ?

13

Comments

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by dimnikar

    Blizzard counts anyone who's payed for access "in the last 30 days" from the announcement. That means that everytime they announce their player numbers,  that many payed for access in the last month.

    agree - thats everything in a nutshell

     

    it would be helpful if Blizzard broke out what % of subs was game room expense but Blizzard at least states they count monthly gameroom time among their subs

     

    http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/press/pressreleases.html?id=2443926

    Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member

    First,

    This is a blog; not an article. Well, written; but things like spelling 'without' as 'with out' is a product of a spell checker, not an edited article from the Examiner.

    Second,

    Why would just under 1/3 buy the expansion?

    A. Those numbers are old; you have not included the sales from the second week to this day. Cataclysm is still on the shelf in Target for god sakes and so is MOP. The number is surely higher for the expansion sales now.

    B. As you can find on these forums everyday; WoW has lots of kids. Kids who's parents limit their playtime to the weekends or some similar parameter.  Kids who therefore aren't the highest level. I.E., Kids who don't need the expansion because they are lvl 45. Kids who's parents are buying them MoP for Xmas and are tired of the constant nagging they've received from these kids saying, 'i don't know why your orc isn't good enough, why do you need a panda?' or 'you'll have to wait for xmas, and if I here anymore of this, you won't get it then.'

     

    Finally,

    Let's say this blog is right. Let's say that WoW has 3 to 4 million 'actual' players.

    It is still the largest, most influential mmo ever made; and no one has come close to their subscription numbers.

    It isn't like this is a scandal which brings WoW down to the level of EQ2 or Rift - it would bump it from its #1 spot. All the way down to the #1 slot - with millions more subscribers than the competition.

    Proving WoW has less than 10 million subs does absolutely nothing to the face of gaming.

    And this blog does not prove it.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by Divion

    http://venturebeat.com/2012/11/07/wow-pandaria-1-million-concurrent-players-in-china/

     

    Claims the market had 1 million peak at one point.

     

    Heres the issue, that article claims subs above 10 mill, but only 2.7 million copies of POM sold.. (Outside of chinese markets)

     

    How does 2.7 out of 10 buy an expansion.

     

    Whats more likely, that 7.3 million people like the old content, and don't want the expansion, atleast not yet

    or the 10 million subs are a flat out lie.

     

    I'm thinking the latter over the former.

     

     

    concurrent means they were logged it at the same time.  Generally (after a game has been released for a while) mmos don't have more than 20% of their population logged in concurrently.  That would put their Asian numbers between 5 and 6 million(ish) which would mean that about 60 percent or so of their customer base is in the Eastern market that pays hourly instead of monthly which sounds about right.

    Edit:  Also many of the Asian countries (including china) get the expansions for free.  So they wouldn't be included in the numbers sold anyway.

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by dimnikar

    Blizzard counts anyone who's payed for access "in the last 30 days" from the announcement. That means that everytime they announce their player numbers,  that many payed for access in the last month.

    agree - thats everything in a nutshell

     

    it would be helpful if Blizzard broke out what % of subs was game room expense but Blizzard at least states they count monthly gameroom time among their subs

     

    http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/press/pressreleases.html?id=2443926

    Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers

    So ..............

    This is your PR pitch from Blizzard:

    You: WoW has 3 to 4 million subscribers.

    Blizzard: But we have 6 to 7 million playing in game rooms.....

    You: Those people don't count. 

    Blizzard: Why not?

    You: They aren't real gamers, I believe it is smart to discount them and pretend they don't exist. I mean, they are playing the game, but in a game room for god's sake......we don't want to associate ourselves with that.

    Blizzard: Uh........

    You: It wouldn't be fair to all the other games that don't have millions and millions playing in game rooms. We want to provide a picture that we are on par with our competition, not beating it.

    Blizzard: And you say you got a degree in PR right? I think we'll be mailing your severence check....pack your things.

    ____________________________________

    This is the most shortsighted analysis of WoW I've seen. 

    Do you have any idea how many people access WoW through game rooms? No.

    But you assume these are the phantom numbers bridging the 3 million to the 10 million.

    If Blizzard actually has 7 million people accessing the game each month through game rooms each month..... would you really not talk about these people in a press release? 

    What is your implication? They aren't real players? They don't play much? 

    I'm telling you right here and now. If you had a game with 7 million accessing it a month through a game room, you would advertise it. You would be proud of the numbers. You would want the world to know that you have 7 million players each month accessing your game. 

    So why exactly would this be a deception on the part of Blizzard? 

     

  • MuppetierMuppetier SouthamptonPosts: 277Member
    Originally posted by Divion

    Is this crazy, or what  ? : http://www.examiner.com/article/world-of-bullcrap-uncovering-the-bad-math

     

    Does kinda make you wonder why MoP sales # are so far behind the alleged active sub numbers

     

    You really should make it clear that you wrote that article.

  • kalrhaelkalrhael Boston, MAPosts: 87Member
    Lets just assume blizzard is lying about FIVE MILLION SUBCRIBERS, yup, five million subs, just gone. What's different? They're still in a VERY comfortable first place, the most subbed game next to is well below the 1mil mark, making this conspiracy pointless.

    Wait a minute...oh my god, what if ALL wow subscribers don't even exist? omg!
     
  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by Muppetier
    Originally posted by Divion

    Is this crazy, or what  ? : http://www.examiner.com/article/world-of-bullcrap-uncovering-the-bad-math

     

    Does kinda make you wonder why MoP sales # are so far behind the alleged active sub numbers

     

    You really should make it clear that you wrote that blog.

    Fixed.

  • volvoxaureusvolvoxaureus IasiPosts: 27Member

  • volvoxaureusvolvoxaureus IasiPosts: 27Member
    Originally posted by jungleninja
    Of course Blizzard is lying. Its obvious they lost a whole lot of players with the coming of Guild Wars 2. We all know its true, but Blizzard wants us to believe different. Not for nothing they are loosing alot of income. Its because they dont have payers.

    Good joke man !!! :)):))

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    It might be true or it might not but nobody has the guts to call them out because Blizzard makes people money when the succeed. The media is not going to mess with their cash cow.
    30
  • expressoexpresso mePosts: 2,183Member Uncommon
    Ugh this old chest nut!
     
    It's simple (this is present on all blizzard press releases)
     
    World of Warcraft’s Subscriber Definition
    World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
     
    When blizzard apply the above rules to their player base they come out with their 10m or what ever.
     
    The OP can dissagree with the definitton till the cows come home but the numbers don't lie.
  • PocahinhaPocahinha cidadePosts: 550Member

    Blizz is ofc lying, its good for the business, no reliable sorce outide blizz can show us numbers so either we believe blizz or we dont.

     

     I dont.

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon

    OP will believe they are lieing no matter what anyone says.

     

    The End.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Divion

     

    How does 2.7 out of 10 buy an expansion.

     

     

    Because nobody has bought the expansion since the first week....

  • antonatsisantonatsis heraklionPosts: 109Member
    China.SImple and easy.They dont pay monthly subs(they have a per hour system there)and i dont even know if they buy the game at all.especially with the internet cafe shops they have.Its like league of legends in Korea where every hero is unlocked for everyone but only in computer spots where you pay by the hour to play.There might be something like that in WoW too.
  • DraronDraron A town in, KYPosts: 993Member

    Lying? No.

    Spinning words? Maybe.

  • teddy_bareteddy_bare Washington, NJPosts: 398Member Uncommon

    I haven't read every page and post in this thread, so this has probably (hopefully) already been said, but...

    Blizzard is part of a publicly traded company. As such, they have to release (at the very least) quaterly reports giving said public a breakdown on their current finances. If it was discovered that they were lying, they would be CRIMINALLY charged w/ securities fraud, the results of which would be DISASTROUS. Not to mention the almost guarenteed monetary fines, and possible jail-time for any executives that had knowledge of the deception, which would almost certainly include the CFO and CEO, as well as a host of others down-the-line...it just really isn't worth it to lie. I mean, it's possible, and not unheard of, but it's highly unlikely.

    So no, they are NOT lying about their sub-numbers....stretching the truth using funny math's? Yes, but outright lying? No.

    image
  • majimaji ColognePosts: 1,994Member Uncommon

    All companies exaggerate like crazy, when it's about stuff others can't immediately disprove. For example, when they are in development of a game, and want to hype it up. That's why you don't preorder games: half of the stuff said will never show up, or only a year later in form of an expensive DLC.

    But: who cares? What does it matter to me, how many people are playing WoW? If I am playing WoW, then the only thing that matters if I have fun.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common

    That article was written by someone who has no business trying to analyze things.  They are trying to use Warcraft Realms census to prove their point, however they fail to mention (or even realize, I don't think the person who wrote that is remotely intelligent) two key things about that census:

    1. Almost every single server is listed as red, meaning not enough people have reported a census to get an accurate pictue.  The actual numbers are *significantly* higher

    2. Its only for NA/EU realms

  • IfrianMMOIfrianMMO BarcelonaPosts: 212Member
    Originally posted by teddyboy420

    I haven't read every page and post in this thread, so this has probably (hopefully) already been said, but...

    Blizzard is part of a publicly traded company. As such, they have to release (at the very least) quaterly reports giving said public a breakdown on their current finances. If it was discovered that they were lying, they would be CRIMINALLY charged w/ securities fraud, the results of which would be DISASTROUS. Not to mention the almost guarenteed monetary fines, and possible jail-time for any executives that had knowledge of the deception, which would almost certainly include the CFO and CEO, as well as a host of others down-the-line...it just really isn't worth it to lie. I mean, it's possible, and not unheard of, but it's highly unlikely.

    So no, they are NOT lying about their sub-numbers....stretching the truth using funny math's? Yes, but outright lying? No.

    This.

    image
  • BigAndShinyBigAndShiny LondonPosts: 176Member

    That article is Bullshit

    WarcraftRealms only tracks EU/US subscribers and characters.   There are only around 4 million EU/US active accounts for WoW. 

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member

    It doesn't matter if you pay 15 bucks or 5 cents a month.

    If you pay for WoW at all you are counted.

    I'm not going to waste my time trying it discredit 10 million subs. 

    They have 10 million active paying accounts even if different countries have different payment methods.

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon

    I've been playing EVE Online for 7 years off and on. I don't care what the numbers are on a game. Fudged or real, if I like the game I will play it. If I don't, I won't.

     

    If WoW has 2 billion subs, Gratz to Blizzard. I still aint playing.

  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by Divion
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by Divion

    Whats so hard to understand

     

    Blizzard : " We have 10 million subscribers"

     

    Lol no you don't.

     

    You have 2-3 million subscribers, and allot [mod edit] who paid for an hour of play time.

     

    If i subscribe to a year of a magazine, and pay 15 dollars a month for a subscription, and get a magazine everything month, that is a subscription.

     

    If i go to the magazine store, and buy 1 copy of the same magazine for 20 bucks, and never buy another magazine, that is NOT a subscription.

     

    Saying you habe 10 million subs when you don't is lying.

     

    How is this rocket science? Detials don't matter, fact is, they lie.

    ** Also, i just looked South Korea uses a similar time model ~

     

    It's deceptive watch :

     

    Play a game that has over 10 million subscribers!

    Play  a game that has 3 million subscribers, and some penny men!

     

    They use the subs as an advertising pillar, and a quip for broadcasting false consumer health.

    [mod edit] w

     

    people in china are also spending $77 dollars for MoP.  how does that make you feel?

     

     "Netease has the license to operate the game in China, and the expansion pack will be available at the official Netease-Blizzard online store at bmall.163.com. As seen in the image above, it’s priced at 486 RMB (US$77). It’s already hitting some other e-commerce sites in the country, such as Amazon China and 360Buy, though shipping won’t really begin until September 28 in China, allowing Blizzard to first deal with the likely huge demand from the Korea and Taiwan launches on September 27th at midnight local time."

    Thats the price for the OPTIONAL limited collector edition BOX ,which as you can see isnt even sold out two months after launch. You only pay for a "luxury" disc booklet and other goodies. Not for the otherwise free upgrade.

    There is and was no huge demand from Korea and Taiwan either for expansion sales.

    WoW Korea is close to dead anyways and Taiwan does not pay for upgrades either.

    Does it feel good to resort to missinformation in defence of WoW?

     

    No I dont support the OP or that blog. This guy is giving everyone a bad name, who knows and keep exposing Blizzard PR spin, and the deliberate ignorance of many WoW fanboys who just love to fall for the spin and keep reciting the reports with the usual small yet crucial falsification, just as intended by Blizzard. He doesnt have half a clue what he's talking about. Neither about BLizzard, neither about Warcraftrealms statistics etc.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Doom prophet vs. fanboys; none with any ammunition but guesses. 

    Song as old as time.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

This discussion has been closed.