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$15 a month? No way!

StryckerStrycker Member UncommonPosts: 110

This will be a short, little post/rant.

 

Something that has been bugging me the last year or two in the industry is the freemium and B2P model taking off. This is my personal opinion: I think their downright awful (Freemium more than B2P). Yet this isn't the part that really makes me boil, but this huge populatiuon of people popping up stating that it's a A) Barrier of entry and B) Any "sub game" (mentioned almost as a blasphemous term these days) will result in failure in an adjusting market.

 

I'm not going to sit here and make a pros and cons list of each BUT;

When I pay my $15 a month I:

 

- Don't have to actively be reminded I'm spending money on a game regularly (And certaintly not in seperate installments every week).

 

- KNOW that I'll have access to ALL the current  and upcoming content without having to do a damn thing.

 

- My immersion stays intact without seeing: "You have to spend X to unlock Hotbar 2 or Bagslot 6".

 

- In terms of barrier to entry: There's trials for just about every MMO, even free clients to level X. Hell, in RIft's example, buying the game is cheaper for the first month than paying the sub would be!

 

- It's FIFTEEN dollars a month; I know people are from different incomes, areas, etc , but comeon here. When I was 14 I could put aside fifteen dollars a month for an MMO, and now that I'm a broke college student fending for myself - I'm still capable and happily willing to put aside fifteen dollars for a vice that offers hundreds of more hours and more variety than most.

 

That last point just leads me to believe that stereotypes revolving around gamers, specifically MMOers, is true:

We're fat, lazy, and broke kids who sit around all day jobless.

 

Hardy har har, Netflix should be freemium and you buy movies individually instead of being charged 7.99-14.99 a month!

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Comments

  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite Member Posts: 879

    $15 is less than what I actually pay monthly for my broadband connection, which is at $20. It's just about the same price I play for my cellphone plan.

    I'm a  videogamer, but I guess I'm not really a MMO gamer at heart; I like to play all kinds of videogames and not just be tied to one or two. MMOs tend to take most of your time, especially your game time. I don't feel like I want to subscribe to something I wouldn't be playing for the most of my gaming time, or I fear that if I subscribed, I will be inclined to focus on just this one game and pass on the other ones that come along. It would feel like a sting to see that $15 bill at the end of every month for something you don't get to use as often as your internet or your phone.

    Of course all that will go out the window if I find the one game worth subscribing to, but my standards are high.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    having monthly sub fee could make you feel obligated to play the game else your money will just be wasted

    Buying a $15 sword in a cash shop wouldn't make you feel obligated to play?

    It isn't any different, if you're buying things from a cash shop and don't play afterwards you wasted it too.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
     
    NOriginally posted by Strycker

    This will be a short, little post/rant.

     

    Something that has been bugging me the last year or two in the industry is the freemium and B2P model taking off. This is my personal opinion: I think their downright awful (Freemium more than B2P). Yet this isn't the part that really makes me boil, but this huge populatiuon of people popping up stating that it's a A) Barrier of entry and B) Any "sub game" (mentioned almost as a blasphemous term these days) will result in failure in an adjusting market.

     

    I'm not going to sit here and make a pros and cons list of each BUT;

    When I pay my $15 a month I:

     

    - Don't have to actively be reminded I'm spending money on a game regularly (And certaintly not in seperate installments every week).

     

    - KNOW that I'll have access to ALL the current  and upcoming content without having to do a damn thing.

     

    - My immersion stays intact without seeing: "You have to spend X to unlock Hotbar 2 or Bagslot 6".

     

    - In terms of barrier to entry: There's trials for just about every MMO, even free clients to level X. Hell, in RIft's example, buying the game is cheaper for the first month than paying the sub would be!

     

    - It's FIFTEEN dollars a month; I know people are from different incomes, areas, etc , but comeon here. When I was 14 I could put aside fifteen dollars a month for an MMO, and now that I'm a broke college student fending for myself - I'm still capable and happily willing to put aside fifteen dollars for a vice that offers hundreds of more hours and more variety than most.

     

    That last point just leads me to believe that stereotypes revolving around gamers, specifically MMOers, is true:

    We're fat, lazy, and broke kids who sit around all day jobless.

     

    Hardy har har, Netflix should be freemium and you buy movies individually instead of being charged 7.99-14.99 a month!

    I've played several F2P and have never been reminded or even needed to spend money on it regularly

    You don't have access to all the current and upcoming content with a b2p, you typically have to pay for expansions.

    My immersion has never been interrupted by "having to spend X to unlock Hotbar 2 or Bagslot 6".

    - In terms of barrier to entry: There's trials for just about every MMO, even free clients to level X. Hell, in RIft's example, buying the game is cheaper for the first month than paying the sub would be!

    No $15 dollars a month is not a lot, how expensive it is has very rarely been an argument.  However we are not comparing $15 a month in games to another form of entertainment.  We are comparing spending $15 a month in one MMO to spending little or nothing in another.  How you justify how much you spend is your issue, let others do the same.

    Myself I couldn't care less if it's f2p, b2p or p2p.  If I like it, I'll spend money on it. If I don't like it I won't play it.

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • EladiEladi Member UncommonPosts: 1,145
    just wait a while and you hate it even more ;)  its more and more common for f2p/free minium  games to Offer a subcription to acces ..80% of the game but keep a lot of stuff (usaly  costumes and alike)  in the shop for you to buy :P
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Strycker

    This will be a short, little post/rant.

    Something that has been bugging me the last year or two in the industry is the freemium and B2P model taking off. This is my personal opinion: I think their downright awful (Freemium more than B2P). Yet this isn't the part that really makes me boil, but this huge populatiuon of people popping up stating that it's a A) Barrier of entry and B) Any "sub game" (mentioned almost as a blasphemous term these days) will result in failure in an adjusting market.

    I'm not going to sit here and make a pros and cons list of each BUT;

    When I pay my $15 a month I:

    - Don't have to actively be reminded I'm spending money on a game regularly (And certaintly not in seperate installments every week).

    - KNOW that I'll have access to ALL the current  and upcoming content without having to do a damn thing.

    - My immersion stays intact without seeing: "You have to spend X to unlock Hotbar 2 or Bagslot 6".

    - In terms of barrier to entry: There's trials for just about every MMO, even free clients to level X. Hell, in RIft's example, buying the game is cheaper for the first month than paying the sub would be!

    - It's FIFTEEN dollars a month; I know people are from different incomes, areas, etc , but comeon here. When I was 14 I could put aside fifteen dollars a month for an MMO, and now that I'm a broke college student fending for myself - I'm still capable and happily willing to put aside fifteen dollars for a vice that offers hundreds of more hours and more variety than most.

    That last point just leads me to believe that stereotypes revolving around gamers, specifically MMOers, is true:

    We're fat, lazy, and broke kids who sit around all day jobless.

    Hardy har har, Netflix should be freemium and you buy movies individually instead of being charged 7.99-14.99 a month!

    You don't quite understand 'barrier to entry'.

    Every step in the funnel toward getting a person into the game is a barrier to entry. One of the reasons many subscription games moved the credit card info off the free trial was because that, too, was a barrier to entry.  It was another step in the process of getting into the game. For most remaining subscription MMOs, the entire trial signup process has even been reduced to one single page (ex: WOW, EVE) to reduce the steps along the way to get people into the game. The barrier isn't the amount of money, rather the extra step and extra decision in that process (for either box fee or subscription fee) when trying the game. It does not refer to monthly cost or financial ability to handle ongoing payments.

    For the other points, it's rather clear you don't have any interest in an answer other than RAWR UR RIGHT RAWR, so I won't suffer you through any counterpoints on them.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • gordiflugordiflu Member UncommonPosts: 757
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
     
     

    I've played several F2P and have never been reminded or even needed to spend money on it regularly

     

    Which ones?

    Every single F2P I have tried (not lots to be honest since I don't like the model) had the cash shop so on your face that it was even insulting.

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Member Posts: 937

    I think I'm a P2P proponent, but it's hard to be so because of WoW's stupid Burning Crusade which kind of broke the covenant of paying $15/month for continual content development.

    In other words, P2P is preferable in the current itterations of B2P, FTP, Freemium, but the stupid x-pacs are sort of shooting the model in the foot.

    (My stupid opinion.)

  • keotsukeotsu Member Posts: 12

    $48 usd per month with modem rental - my broadband from comcast in Sacramento for 25mb throughput

    $15 Swtor, $15 Rift, $15 the sercret world, per month guess i can switch to FTP on swtor now.

    i think im moving more towards, cancel games, cancel internet, spend all that money i save, on a '67 Impala, Candy Apple Red with Bench leather seats, and a gutteral idle sounding engine. 50 series tires and a month time spent in hmm where to cruise..a hell with it i'll just sit in the driveway looking good and go nowhere.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    Originally posted by gordiflu
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
     
     

    I've played several F2P and have never been reminded or even needed to spend money on it regularly

     

    Which ones?

    Every single F2P I have tried (not lots to be honest since I don't like the model) had the cash shop so on your face that it was even insulting.

    EQ, EQ2, Fallen Earth, CoH, VG now, DDO, STO, CO, Aion (only about 15 minutes of CO and Aion though, couldn't stand the looks or gameplay feel) .  When your first log in there is a message about cash shop but in the game, nothing really.  Just a tiny little button, smaller than my hotbar buttons off in the corner that I have hardly ever notice and barely even looked at. 

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by gordiflu
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
     
     

    I've played several F2P and have never been reminded or even needed to spend money on it regularly

     

    Which ones?

    Every single F2P I have tried (not lots to be honest since I don't like the model) had the cash shop so on your face that it was even insulting.

    EQ, EQ2, Fallen Earth, CoH, VG now, DDO, STO, CO, Aion (only about 15 minutes of CO and Aion though, couldn't stand the looks or gameplay feel) .  When your first log in there is a message about cash shop but in the game, nothing really.  Just a tiny little button, smaller than my hotbar buttons off in the corner that I have hardly ever notice and barely even looked at. 

    Really don't see how you could have played those games, most of them at that, without noticing, or being reminded of, the cash shops etc, you'd have to have some really 'blinkered' gameplay not to have, as in some of them its a very intrusive factor of the game. image

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by gordiflu
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
     
     

    I've played several F2P and have never been reminded or even needed to spend money on it regularly

     

    Which ones?

    Every single F2P I have tried (not lots to be honest since I don't like the model) had the cash shop so on your face that it was even insulting.

    EQ, EQ2, Fallen Earth, CoH, VG now, DDO, STO, CO, Aion (only about 15 minutes of CO and Aion though, couldn't stand the looks or gameplay feel) .  When your first log in there is a message about cash shop but in the game, nothing really.  Just a tiny little button, smaller than my hotbar buttons off in the corner that I have hardly ever notice and barely even looked at. 

    Really don't see how you could have played those games, most of them at that, without noticing, or being reminded of, the cash shops etc, you'd have to have some really 'blinkered' gameplay not to have, as in some of them its a very intrusive factor of the game. image

    Nope they were just as I stated.  They were at the log in screen but in game it was a tiny little button in the corner.  Thats it.  If you consider something off in the corner to be intrusive I guess it was.  To me it was a non-issue, no more intrusive than the date/time on my desktop.

     

    edit screenshots on new bard alt:

    log in screenimage  in game screen image

    EQ and EQ2 they are a button in the bottom left and even smaller.  Haven't played those in a few months so not going to redownload the game just to grab some screenshots.  CoH, Aion and CO I dont' even recall seeing a button, I"m sure they were there but dont' recall what it looked like or where it was only that I wasn't bothered by it. 

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • OnomasOnomas Member UncommonPosts: 1,147

    50 cents a day for 24/7 entertainment and no cash shops............ any day.

    Find me cheaper entertainment!

    F2P games suck simple as that. 90% of them turn pay to win, and you must pay for the simplest things that the majority of subscription games take for granted. You end up spending more at a cash shop for the average gamer than the 15$ a month for everything. Dont see the issue.

  • StryckerStrycker Member UncommonPosts: 110

    Can't respond to everyone, but I am interested in counter points (And you wouldn't know if I was or not since I only made one post). Fair enough on the point as well about clarifying barrier of entry, although I'd believe it's a combination of having to go through X steps and pay X amount. However, looking at MMO's lately, the one's that are doing financially well while still remaining reputable are the subscription MMO's (WOW, EVE, RIFT).

     

    It really comes down to whether F2P buys total up to the revenue from a subscription model. In terms of feeling obligated to play because of the subscription model: Someone else put it perfectly; Wouldn't buying that $15 sword make you feel obligated as well?

     

    On immersion: Either you haven't been immersed in an MMO yet (Understandably because MMO's are becoming less immersive/not worlds, blah blah - won't get into that argument) but Cash Shops certaintly aren't helping. Recently, TOR comes to mind, I logged in and couldn't even have access to a third hotbar without paying. Applies to all F2P MMO's I've played, perhaps you adapt to it eventually, but the lure is always lingering somewhere (And it has to be for revenue). By the way, not necessarily directly through your UI.

     

    Another point comes to mind as well: The impact on community which I'll let someone else iterate on.

     

     

     

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048

    The only issue with $15 a month is the fact that its a steady payment you need to make for a game you might just not feel like playing all that much one month yet still have to pay $15. In the end though its likely going to save more money then a game that is F2P.

     

    Still, a freemium model can be alright so long as they do it right and they don't end up padding it with good that even subscribers have to purchase (which sadly happens a lot, though I understand why). I think that a sub model is in some way phasing out, as in a way a lot of sub games actually have a 'freemium' model in place, just instead it has B2P for the box which freemium games end up getting their money for the box by providing extra items tempting subscribers to pay more for and charging for some portions of content.

     

    Over-all though, I feel that a sub fee is a great way for a game to continue to grow without forcing upon so much extra stuff and ending up likely costing a person who really enjoys the game a lot more in having to buy all the little goods they want extra they offer that just a sub won't cover.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    Originally posted by Strycker

    Can't respond to everyone, but I am interested in counter points (And you wouldn't know if I was or not since I only made one post). Fair enough on the point as well about clarifying barrier of entry, although I'd believe it's a combination of having to go through X steps and pay X amount. However, looking at MMO's lately, the one's that are doing financially well while still remaining reputable are the subscription MMO's (WOW, EVE, RIFT).

     

    It really comes down to whether F2P buys total up to the revenue from a subscription model. In terms of feeling obligated to play because of the subscription model: Someone else put it perfectly; Wouldn't buying that $15 sword make you feel obligated as well?

     

    On immersion: Either you haven't been immersed in an MMO yet (Understandably because MMO's are becoming less immersive/not worlds, blah blah - won't get into that argument) but Cash Shops certaintly aren't helping. Recently, TOR comes to mind, I logged in and couldn't even have access to a third hotbar without paying. Applies to all F2P MMO's I've played, perhaps you adapt to it eventually, but the lure is always lingering somewhere (And it has to be for revenue). By the way, not necessarily directly through your UI.

     

    Another point comes to mind as well: The impact on community which I'll let someone else iterate on.

     

     

     

    Regarding the financial well statement (as everything else was subjective) I'm not entirely sure that is true.  Wow is certainly doing well, as is Rift.  However Eve laid off 20% of its staff last year.  Lotro and Eq2 seem to be doing quite well still (actually not sure anymore about EQ2 as haven't played or read about it in several months), but lotro is doing well.

    Also the games that are not doing well f2p, were not doing well as p2p either.  The payment model didn't change bad gameplay. 

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Nope they were just as I stated.  They were at the log in screen but in game it was a tiny little button in the corner.  Thats it.  If you consider something off in the corner to be intrusive I guess it was.  To me it was a non-issue, no more intrusive than the date/time on my desktop.

     

    edit screenshots on new bard alt:

    log in screenimage  in game screen image

    EQ and EQ2 they are a button in the bottom left and even smaller.  Haven't played those in a few months so not going to redownload the game just to grab some screenshots.  CoH, Aion and CO I dont' even recall seeing a button, I"m sure they were there but dont' recall what it looked like or where it was only that I wasn't bothered by it. 

    Half of Everquest's loot is prestige, every prestige item requires you to upgrade to a gold membership or you can't equip it. Every augment that is prestige reminds you to buy a gold membership. Your missing bag slots remind you to either go Gold or buy storage space from the cash shop. Mercenaries over J1 require you to buy them from the cash shop or buy Gold membership. Mercenary slots require you to buy them from the cash shop. AA abilities require  money if you're not Gold,  unlocking classes requires you to buy them from the cash shop or go Gold. Owning over a certain amount of platinum, costs real life money or you need to buy a Gold membership.

    No kidding you're not reminded, you are continiously reminded in the game itself on every other turn that you have to pay for everything under the sun. The gameplay itself is locked behind paywalls, the more you progress, the more paywalls you run into, and then you have 2 options, either pay a lot of money in the cash shop or go P2P. EQ is not a F2P game, it's a F2P trial and if you want to get anywhere in the game you have to pay. Raid items are prestige, you either pay or you're never wearing a raid item. You would be useless as a character if you didn't eventually get good augments and unlocked more AA. You can't even progress beyond a certain point if you don't spend money to ulock enough AA.

    Claiming it's just a simple button on the side is misinterpretation to the extreme, if you play EQ as a F2P game, you either buy unlocks for gear and AA, or you stop playing the game when you run into the paywalls, and you will run into them after you need more than a few hundred AA and actually want your character to progress instead of dying on every mob.

    That never happened when games were simply P2P.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    my 2 cents..

         First, the cost of $15 is not a problem if ALL you plan on doing is playing one game at a time..  Some do that, and some don't.. I'm one of those some don't kind of guys..  There are days I feel like Sci Fi, and there are days I feel like super hero and other days I feel LoTRish, GW2ish or even WoW ish.. etc etc..  With a subscription plan like SOE loves to do, or Blizzard or Trion, etc, they are basically encouraging you to exclusively play their game only..  The reason why I own 1 car is because of cost..  Now someone like me that likes to play maybe 3, 4 or 5 different games a month, I'm sure as hell not going to fork out $15 for each one of them... That excuse of it's only $15 goes right out the window.. Tell us how easy it is to shell out $100 a month for gaming?  I personally LOVE the B2P model that GW2 is using.. I wish ALL games followed that format.. I play it casually, sometimes only once or twice a week and NEVER feel that I'm wasting money on something I'm not playing..

         As for my thoughts of $15.. I think that is just a lame excuse waste of money cash cow for the devs that can get away with it.. Back in the day it was mostly justified, but nowadays I think it's just excess profit..  It has become normal and standard policy to charge a sub for a MMO, and the general public accepts it as such.. I don't, not anymore.. Remember when it used to be normal for cars to charge you extra for automatic, FM radio etc etc.. Those are now standard and are a insignificant cost of the car and for good reason..

         As a result.. I no longer play EQ2, EQ1, WoW, Rift, LoTRO and SWTOR because of their subscription plans.. Their F2P models are insane, and I'm not going to pay a $15 sub for each and every one of them.. So I play GW2 exclusively for now.. I have yet to buy one thing from Arenanet, and only have 1 character to 80th, and still exploring.. 

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908
    Originally posted by aladinversuk
    i'd rather play in a F2P server rather than a subscribtion based one. having monthly sub fee could make you feel obligated to play the game else your money will just be wasted. in a f2p server, vip or premium services are optional and you can pick it up whenever you feel like it.

     

    'wasted'?

    How little would you actually have to play in a week to feel like £2.50 (or thereabouts) was 'wasted'? An hour? Two?

    My thought is that if you are playing less than an hour a week in a MMORPG often enough to feel the burn of the 'waste' then maybe this genre isn't for you.

    My opinion is that the sub offers amazing value on an ongoing basis and promotes better core game design and a more stable community, with less focus on manipulating you into spending, and a more even play field for play to achieve gamers.

     

    I actually think that the F2P model is pretty destructive to these games on a number of levels and, overall, represent worse value (under the often illusion of 'choice').

     

  • 207312207312 Member UncommonPosts: 35

    Eh. I'd rather pay 15$ a month, since I hate in-game stores. I mean - - look at so many games nowadays. Almost all free games that do not have "Freemium" has an ingame store that sells items/gold. I'm happy paying 15$ and not worrying about all that stuff, assuming the game is good enough.

     

    I'm rather sad that theres no mmorpgs similar to "Runescape". I personally don't like runescape, but the fact that 3 brothers started it in their mother's basement is rather inspiring. Nowadays all games are made by companies that are just looking for money -- without really caring about it's playerbase. That's pretty much runescape has become too -- ever since the brothers lost control of Runescape. We really need a large-scale MMORPG that is created by a small group of experienced people that actually know eachother. AKA, a large-scale indie MMORPG.

     

    And for the record, I'm not that intelligent image. So no trolling me, please. If you disagree with anything, just give me constructive criticism. Last time I made a very simple post and I was pretty much assaulted by hate- image.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by aladinversuk
    i'd rather play in a F2P server rather than a subscribtion based one. having monthly sub fee could make you feel obligated to play the game else your money will just be wasted. in a f2p server, vip or premium services are optional and you can pick it up whenever you feel like it.

     

    'wasted'?

    How little would you actually have to play in a week to feel like £2.50 (or thereabouts) was 'wasted'? An hour? Two?

    My thought is that if you are playing less than an hour a week in a MMORPG often enough to feel the burn of the 'waste' then maybe this genre isn't for you.

    My opinion is that the sub offers amazing value on an ongoing basis and promotes better core game design and a more stable community, with less focus on manipulating you into spending, and a more even play field for play to achieve gamers.

    I used to have 5 level 80's all in raid gear in WoW, I have 2 max level toons in SWTOR, and 1 max level toon in Rift in raid gear, a few LoTRO toons I miss playing, a handful of toons in EQ1 and more toons w/ house in EQ2 that I would like to play.. SO... Are you saying I should shell out $80+ a month to play my games, and not feel like I'm wasting part of it, or most of it?  Have you ever tried raiding in 5 different games at the same time?  Think about it?

     

    I actually think that the F2P model is pretty destructive to these games on a number of levels and, overall, represent worse value (under the often illusion of 'choice').

     

    PS. edit.. I would like to try out STO as well, but I'm wanting to pay a sub  for that either.. now we are up to $100 a month, and ArcheAge, NWN  and ES are just around the corner.. Should I add those 3 games to my $15 a month list as well?  Not sure about you, but I don't have $150 a month to waste on subscriptions..

  • HelleriHelleri Member UncommonPosts: 930
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    having monthly sub fee could make you feel obligated to play the game else your money will just be wasted

    Buying a $15 sword in a cash shop wouldn't make you feel obligated to play?

    It isn't any different, if you're buying things from a cash shop and don't play afterwards you wasted it too.

    That is a point I want to expand on. The industry has discovered that a cash shop makes more then a sub. It's still nice to throw the sub in their if you can to scoop up every dollar (the idea of some level of special attention is all that sells a sub these days in a game that also has a cash shop).

     

    But, make no mistake this is a trend. And when a trend dies, and what it is replaced with is usually tottaly unpredictable.

     

    There are probably 3 games that set this trend...

     

    - The first game is...wait for it...World of Warcraft. It created a desprate situation by being wildly successful. To the extreem that other MMO's were loosing players to WoW by the 10's, then the 100's, then 1000's! image

     

    - The second game is Runescape. When other games only had a concept of subscription based play. Runescape started as a free game (paid for by ads) and later to expand it's content added an optional subscription for more features. And, it was the only big MMO that was not only not taking a hit from WoW but still growing at a healthy pace. It had this weird thing called a "free to play model"! image

     

    - The third game is  Dungeons & Dragons Online. They were an intitial buy in with continued subscription games. But, they were falling hard. The MMO makers of the time probably considered runescapes thriving in the ever growing shadow of WoW as a fluke soon to be undone image. But, Turbine saw it as D&D's last desperate act. And following suit in an attempt to survive went free to play. And, it worked! Core Players who stayed through the mass exodus sure were not happy about it. But...they slowly saw a return in players that saved their game.

     

    Since then it has been a struggle. The bulk of the industry is going with what works. And, others are trying to slide back into the subscription model (figuring if it can trend one way it can trend the other).

     

    But, cashop free to play models work well for a few good reasons...

     

    - People initially feel as if paying is completely optional. And to some extent it is. But often you will hit a low cealing, which is when they want small amount from you. Less then you would likely pay for a sub game. But, yeah...one purchase to make the entire game a lot easier. Just pay once and everything will be fine. Sounds like a great deal image   . But, the amount of in game currency you can buy will almost always leave you with a little left over. Maybe not enough to make another great purchase from the cash shop but enough to get you more comfortable in making frequent small purchases.

     

    - And that's when you get locked in to what I like to call, the open-subscription model. Pay what you want, when you want.  This is the most deviously clever thing in MMO's. When you pay them the amount you want from a range of in their own right seemingly fair choices you feel empowered to carve your own way. You feel, all the wiser when you make your carefully planed purchases. And then the cash shop updates image ...And there is that one item...you can allllmmmost afford it. If only you had...yeah, just one more small purchase of cash shop money!

     

    - This is too brilliant, it plays of the concept of putting someone at ease, presenting them with the devils deal, then waiting for them to come find you with their wallets open when they discover the catch and that they have no recourse but to repair it with more money. I have spoken to quite a few Players on various MMO's who claim some months upwards of $200.00 USD spent just to stay in the game.

     

    While I am certain this will change form over the years it will never fully die. it's just to clever to kill. It preys on the worste kind of stupids, shopping addictions and gambling addictions (Play Aika online if you have a disposable income and would liek to see what I mean).

     

    I can say one thing with 100% certainty, this will never be broken by a flat subscription model...and with relative certainty I can say the best way to halt this trend is with a better spin on it.

    image

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by Helleri

    But, the amount of in game currency you can buy will almost always leave you with a little left over. Maybe not enough to make another great purchase from the cash shop but enough to get you more comfortable in making frequent small purchases.

     

    So you're saying they would let you buy 100 "coins" from the cash shop, and price items at 60 coins, which leaves you with 40, which would entice you to spend some more.

    If that's true that's pretty clever.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Strycker

    It really comes down to whether F2P buys total up to the revenue from a subscription model.

    I don't know if that's a fair comparision. Since F2P is a la carte, they can offer far more for each playstyle. Comparing getting everything from the item store with a sub game is probably unrealistic. The pwoergamer is probably not interested in the line of cosmetic garb and the costumes fan probably couldn't care less about the plethora of 30-minute stat modifier. The sub game has to meter out what they can offer for each group. The F2P game can cater to each playstyle as far as revenue from that playstyle keeps making it profitable. The subscription expansion box is the best example of that. Aside from it completely negating the whole "I get everything for my 15 bucks" argument  that many use to support it, it is often a mandatory purchase, offering higher level content and new features that you will have no access to without the additional purchase.

    If an expansion  for a sub game comes out that has one thing you want and 12 things you don't, you begrudgingly buy the expansion because without it you don't get that level cap increase or new dungeon or whatever it is that you wanted from it. In a F2P game, you'd only pay for that one item, which for most F2P systems would cost you far less than the cost of an expansion box.

    Now figure in some of those other nasty facts that most people avoid like the initial box fee for most sub games and the fact that 80% or so of the F2P gamers never spend anything, and F2p is, for the majority of people, far less expensive than a subscription game.

     

    In terms of feeling obligated to play because of the subscription model: Someone else put it perfectly; Wouldn't buying that $15 sword make you feel obligated as well?

    As much as buying a hat at a ballgame makes me feel obligated to watch the whole game. I bought an armor skin for my GW2 character - doesn't make me feel have to play the game any longer than the game's ability to keep me entertained. That's the significant difference between F2P and subscription. In a sub, you pay 15 dollars for the month whether you use the product or not. You pay on the promise of future entertainment. For a lot of people, it creates a feeling of obligation because they already paid the money. In a F2P game the player does not spend money until they specifically want to purchase a certain item or service. More importantly, they do not spend money on things until they actually feel they want or need them. Now, whether marketing moves the dials anywhere in either of the two markets is a whole separate topic, but niether side is an innocent lamb in that regard. ;)  

     

    On immersion: Either you haven't been immersed in an MMO yet (Understandably because MMO's are becoming less immersive/not worlds, blah blah - won't get into that argument) but Cash Shops certaintly aren't helping. Recently, TOR comes to mind, I logged in and couldn't even have access to a third hotbar without paying. Applies to all F2P MMO's I've played, perhaps you adapt to it eventually, but the lure is always lingering somewhere (And it has to be for revenue). By the way, not necessarily directly through your UI.

    TOR's hotbars are an exception, not the rule. It's also an example where something players once had was taken from them in the switch. If TOR came out with the standard hotbar and allowed people to buy additional slots, it would have been a non-issue. perception is key and there are myriad examples throughout MMOs of that. 

    Also "I have less slots than before. It breaks the immersion" is a leap in logic I have trouble following, but I do not now nor ever had any affinity for TOR so maybe it's just a TOR thing I don't get. 

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Helleri

    But, the amount of in game currency you can buy will almost always leave you with a little left over. Maybe not enough to make another great purchase from the cash shop but enough to get you more comfortable in making frequent small purchases.

    So you're saying they would let you buy 100 "coins" from the cash shop, and price items at 60 coins, which leaves you with 40, which would entice you to spend some more.

    If that's true that's pretty clever.

    It'slike that for any form of gift certificate or pre-paid currency. MMOs, retail stores, phone cards, electronic/hobby stores. The value of the cards are always slightly higher than average purchase tiers.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Helleri
    [lots of speculation and misinformation stated as fact]

    What's disenchanting is you have a few good points in there, but it's lost in the sea of made up nonsense to support it.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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