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Modern MMOs: Stop trying to make me into a special little snowflake.

DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,407Member Uncommon

I'm the chosen one... again.

A NPC has lost her ring... even though 1,000,000 players before me had found and returned it. Is she that stupid?

Now my own character talks for me? This doesn't feel like "me" anymore; it feels like I'm turning the pages of a fricken' book.

 

 

Quests should not be personalized. Any answer to a quest giver should be a simple YES or NO.

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Comments

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    I'm the chosen one... again.

    A NPC has lost her ring... even though 1,000,000 players before me had found and returned it. Is she that stupid?

    Now my own character talks for me? This doesn't feel like "me" anymore; it feels like I'm turning the pages of a fricken' book.

     

     

    Quests should not be personalized. Any answer to a quest giver should be a simple YES or NO.

    Sorry it bothers you.  Perhaps you should choose games that did not descend from RPGs, instead.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,407Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    I'm the chosen one... again.

    A NPC has lost her ring... even though 1,000,000 players before me had found and returned it. Is she that stupid?

    Now my own character talks for me? This doesn't feel like "me" anymore; it feels like I'm turning the pages of a fricken' book.

     

     

    Quests should not be personalized. Any answer to a quest giver should be a simple YES or NO.

    Sorry it bothers you.  Perhaps you should choose games that did not descend from RPGs, instead.

    SWG did it best. Let me be me...    gosh!

  • IchmenIchmen Winnipeg, MBPosts: 1,228Member

    dont do/play quest based games then.. cause most mmos have very standard quests that player #1 - #999999999999999999999999999999999 has already long answered before you. 

    there is only so much a devopler can do for quests.. before they are just repeated. (i think DnD-pnp has long since killed any original quest system ages ago)

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  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member

    Uncle Owen called, he........wait, no, he got burned to a crisp.

     

     

     

     

    image

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    I'm the chosen one... again.

    A NPC has lost her ring... even though 1,000,000 players before me had found and returned it. Is she that stupid?

    Now my own character talks for me? This doesn't feel like "me" anymore; it feels like I'm turning the pages of a fricken' book.

     

     

    Quests should not be personalized. Any answer to a quest giver should be a simple YES or NO.

    Sorry it bothers you.  Perhaps you should choose games that did not descend from RPGs, instead.

    Well not all RPG's are about being a hero and saving the world.  lot of classic titles also offered the option of choice and just being 'yourself'.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    SWG did it best. Let me be me...    gosh!

    I just wanna be a Jedi, gosh!

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
      ....cool...Make me teh special little snowflake since he dont want it..

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    I'm the chosen one... again.

    A NPC has lost her ring... even though 1,000,000 players before me had found and returned it. Is she that stupid?

    Now my own character talks for me? This doesn't feel like "me" anymore; it feels like I'm turning the pages of a fricken' book.

     

     

    Quests should not be personalized. Any answer to a quest giver should be a simple YES or NO.

    Actually I would prefer an answer like "do it your damn self".  We need to teach these NPC pixels a lesson.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • MavekMavek Voorhees, NJPosts: 138Member

    This is very valid point. Too many games try to make you feel special and a hero of the world. As James Ohlen of Bioware said "its just not heroic to have 25 'heroes' beating on one enemy" haha. But seriously I think games could benefit from just letting you be another player in a world of thousands of others. There is really no need to be singled out, thats why we have single player games.

     

    It doesn't bother me that we are always the chosen one but it isn't necessary for games to thrive.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Mavek

    It doesn't bother me that we are always the chosen one but it isn't necessary for games to thrive.

    Or necessary to complain about; in every game, even every themepark, alternatives to questing exist.

    If bad network television plots bother you, popular fantasy may not be your cup of tea either.

    But, in additon to MUDs, SPRPGs and various other sources MMORPGs descended from, "choose your adventure" books were a big early influence, too.  It still clings to quest writers. Particularly those who have been required to issue expansion after expansion, and keep creating "newer bigger badguy, baddest evah!" each time.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    I'm the chosen one... again.

    A NPC has lost her ring... even though 1,000,000 players before me had found and returned it. Is she that stupid?

     

    I've been saying this for as long as MMOs have been a thing.  Content should be designed around the concept that millions of characters will be doing it.  Like we're all soldiers in a war, not the hero that saves everyone else.  It's absurd, and implausible, but devs just keep doing it that way, because that's what they think is important.  Crucial, even.  Held over from making single-player games, I guess.

     

    Really cripples their potential, how they try to shoehorn hero-centric gameplay into a genre where it just doesn't fit, I think.

     

    Not only that, but if I do want to be "special," I want it to be because of the choices I make in how I design and play my character.  Too much emphasis on story isn't just implausible, but also, makes that sort of personalization impossible.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member Common

    If you want to have quests, they have a story.

     

    If you have a story, it has been told before.

     

    Deal with it.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Vhaln

    Really cripples their potential, how they try to shoehorn hero-centric gameplay into a genre where it just doesn't fit, I think.

    Shrug, it is true.  But amateur art critic is always the easiest of all jobs.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    This is why I think the story thing was much better in tsw than swtor and Aoc. You aren't "the chosen one", just a cog in a machine, a machine you don't understand.

    It's a fear I have with TESO. It's one of the few things I dislike in skyrim as opposed to Morrowind and oblivion, although skyrim is a much better game than oblivion.
  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    +1

    Preach on OP...We need real games back. It isn't just MMO all games are so dumbed down they are made for 7yo to play. Where are the games that take skill and brains to play. Games are so bad now I would rather go back to arcades from the '80s.

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    the best avatar immersion is in Secret World because your character never talks. The world talks to you, but your Avatar doesn't talk crap you don't want to say with a voice you don't want to hear.

     

    also, EvE but you don't see your char too often... WiS FTW

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  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

     Quests should not be personalized. Any answer to a quest giver should be a simple YES or NO.

    Sorry it bothers you.  Perhaps you should choose games that did not descend from RPGs, instead.

    Not all RPG's revolve around player being one in a million.   You seem to prefer most common exceptional one in the world hero theme, but that does not make that all fantasy and all rpg's are about that.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    This is personally for me a non issue.I enjoy the story while I'm playing it and don't care if thousands of others are having the exact same or similar experience.Just like I don't care that millions also palyed Ezio,Lara Croft,Adam Jensen,nameles hero number 45 in single player games.I only care how much they entertain me at the time.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by fenistilNot all RPG's revolve around player being one in a million.   You seem to prefer most common exceptional one in the world hero theme, but that does not make that all fantasy and all rpg's are about that.

    "Descended from"...implying earler games...never mind, OP was a one-shot anyway.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • dancingstardancingstar LeedsPosts: 346Member Uncommon

    This is pretty muich the intrinsic absurdity of the themepark MMORPG form & has been a known issue for 10 years or more (it is implied for instance in this interview with Richard Garriott from 2002).  Your choice is more or less, (a) ignore the absurdity (b) play a single-player or small-group co-op game where there aren't over 9000 other "heroes" running round the same world or (c) play a pure sandbox MMO.  Installing, logging into and playing a themepark MMORPG and complaining it has quests which present you as "The Hero" and whic hit makes no logical sense for every player character in the game world to have done makes about as much sense as installing and logging into Darkfall and complaining about other players killing your character and taking their stuff.

    It may sound like a good idea that once someone defeats the Big Bad, he stays defeated & the entire game world changes to take this into account, but to do this in an MMORPG would be pretty much commercial suicide -- it would be spending developer resources to create content that could be completed by at most one raid party per server. Unless and until someone comes up with a good enough AI to dynamically create content and implement it in the game world as fast as the player base gets through it, it ain't gonna happen.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    I'm the chosen one... again.

    A NPC has lost her ring... even though 1,000,000 players before me had found and returned it. Is she that stupid?

    Now my own character talks for me? This doesn't feel like "me" anymore; it feels like I'm turning the pages of a fricken' book.

     

     

    Quests should not be personalized. Any answer to a quest giver should be a simple YES or NO.

    Sorry it bothers you.  Perhaps you should choose games that did not descend from RPGs, instead.

    It's not because the games descend from RPGs. It's because some developers (the WoW clone devs mostly) don't understand the strengths of an MMO.

    It is entirely futile to try to craft a personal storyline into an MMO. It'll never, EVER be as good as a storyline in a singleplayer RPG, and its just dishonest and hollow, when you see all the other players.

    Devs should focus on what MMOs do best, large scale storytelling, like Asheron's Call, where thousands of players dictate the outcome of an evolving story that shapes the game world.

    SWTOR failed for a reason. Singleplayer should not get the most attention in an MMO.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by dancingstar

     

    It may sound like a good idea that once someone defeats the Big Bad, he stays defeated & the entire game world changes to take this into account

    Well, we did get a statue for Arthas.

    (But so did a couple of hundred other guilds, on other servers. And we were still re-killing him a year later.  I can understand that, they did not construct this entire instance for just 10 guys.)

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    I'm the chosen one... again.

    A NPC has lost her ring... even though 1,000,000 players before me had found and returned it. Is she that stupid?

    Now my own character talks for me? This doesn't feel like "me" anymore; it feels like I'm turning the pages of a fricken' book.

     

     

    Quests should not be personalized. Any answer to a quest giver should be a simple YES or NO.

    OK fine. I'll be the chosen one. You can clean my stables.

     

    Get what ring? Oh you meant the one the first guy got 1 hour after the game went live? Sorry, it's been found. All there's left for you to do is muck the stalls.

     

    You say you keep talking at the monitor and nothing is happening? Put in a ticket and we'll pass it on to the voice recognition team... Better yet, ask the chosen one to do it, we'd rather not talk to peons.

     

    Are you enjoying cleaning stables? Jus answer yes or no.

     

    There. Happy?

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,919Member Uncommon

    It's not impossible for MMORPGs to ditch the SP "hero" RPG mode.

     

    There is always non-hero questing.

    "The Toratha are in need of leather.  Go kill 10 bluehounds and bring me the skins.  I will pay you on your return."

    No hero here, but obviously a task.

     

    Or another, a design I find enjoyable, is adventuring.

    "There is a derelict mine located to the east of town.  The locals say the place is haunted."

    Then XP is provided by kills and cash or item reward from hidden loot or boss drop.  No hero, no task, just raw environment based PVE.

    The problem is that such is easily exploitable by chest or boss camping.  That puts pressure on the developer to use instancing, phasing or some other gating mechanics to push a character out of the location once it has been completed.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Get what ring? Oh you meant the one the first guy got 1 hour after the game went live? Sorry, it's been found. All there's left for you to do is muck the stalls.

    I once created unique items for a player base that valued them deeply, enough to purchase access to auctions with real cash.

    Even so, we were only allowed to create a handful of truly unique (as in one of a kind) fully scripted items each year...the re-sold for hundreds of dollars, thousands in at least one case, each.  Much more common? "This item is one of five to be sold for this year..."

    That game had a player base that never exceeded 5000.  Special snowflake, really unique, had a definitely marketable value.

    What precludes Unique in mmos is the scale of the games.  Uniqueness is gone, interaction with staff is gone.  Permanent effects, like having a street in town named after your character. gone. Your character, creating or changing the lore of the world permanently, gone. 

    And they aren't coming back.

    I understand the gripe, possibly much more so than the most rabid of fanbox fans. Those moons and constellations up in the sky were mine.

    But their usual reflex "throw narrative away entirely, it's the only way we can have anything different" is a false one, that weakens the genre to a mere simulation.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

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