I know for a FACT I'll probably be flamed for saying this but I figured someone should offer a RL example of how the cost to repair something can EASILY be more expensive than the cost to simply replace it.
OP do you own a vehicle or have you ever known someone who has owned one and wrecked it? Depending on the severity of the vehicle after a wreck/crash the cost of repair can easily outweight the cost of replacement. In these situations the vehicle is usually given a salvage title and for the most part is considered not worth repairing/keeping. The only time this is not true is when the value of aftermarket products placed in the vehicle that still function would be too much of a burden to place in a new one (in RL this rarely ever the case, however in MMO's enhancement items that bind themselves to equipment you are left with little to no option).
Again, I know games are not RL (obviously) but to make a statement such as repairs should never cost more than the price to replace the equipment altogether are easily proven false by making RL comparisons. Vehicles are just one example but the same statement holds true for a LOT of material objects for sale. Just being the Devils advocate on this, personally I prefer costs not exceed that of replacements but I won't fault a company if they are for the aforementioned reasons.
When im leveling a toon, when i have at least 1 piece of armor broken im not repairing it ,i just go and buy a new gear alltogether cause anyway till it brakes im like 5 to 10 lvls above that gear so i would need gear upgrade anyway...
with my lvl 80 toon is alot different though..and i just be more carefull.. still the only way i can't really control me dying would be at dungeons and even more at pvp. I generaly dont agree on repairing cost for pvp although atm there is no other KO penalty for pvp and its the only way for people to not mass run to death..there are consenquences as it should.
Repair cost seems to increase exponentially the more pieces are broken. Try repairing more often and not just when every single item on your skin is broken twice.
Also, when playing in above-character-level zones and finding that you have a problem with dying a lot, try to get someone to wingman you. After all it's an MMO.
I am interested in your "repair cost seems to increase exponentailly the more pieces are broken" statement; could you educate me how your statement fits into the suggested "cost = A*exp(kx)" formula?
I can't begin to believe how many of you actually missed the point. I've gotten a slew of comments to this thread now advising me not to die so much and get better at playing the game. First off, I didn't ask for advice. It was addressing an issue. That issue is that it is ridiculous that repair costs, cost more than replacing a blue or green set of items. Dying in game has nothing to do with it other than being the cause of damaged armor which is NOT what I was addressing.
I don't die often in GW2. Usually, and I've already said this, I don't repair armor at all. I just replace it every ten levels and by then I might have damaged two or three chunks of it if that. Which is probably better than many of you do. So please can it about " play better. Don't die" garbage.
Repair cost should be based on the value of the item. And should be less than that value. It needs fine tuning. And enough with the "well in real life....take a car for example." Give me a break.
Repair costs need finer tuning in GW2. And its not about a death penalty when I don't mind one. Yet the penalty in this case is not a repair cost. Its just replacing the armor. Which once the old armor is sold? Is virtually nothing. So its not a penalty. Its just ridiculous the cost of the repair in many cases is much much higher than the cost of the armor.
Name another mmo that has that mechanic. Name another game that has that mechanic. Name a game where the repair cost can be higher than the item itself? I can name one. Guild Wars 2. Other than that I got nothin.
Originally posted by CorehavenRepair cost should be based on the value of the item. And should be less than that value.
Why?
Yeah, trying to figure that out. Many things in real life cost far more to repair than to replace, from can openers to autos, so sounds like GW2 is just being more realistic which I typically support in MMOs.
While other MMOs may not have done this in the past, I can't see a reason for them not to.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Repair cost should be based on the value of the item. And should be less than that value.
Why?
Yeah, trying to figure that out. Many things in real life cost far more to repair than to replace, from can openers to autos, so sounds like GW2 is just being more realistic which I typically support in MMOs.
While other MMOs may not have done this in the past, I can't see a reason for them not to.
Corehaven I would also like to ask this question (eventhougth I thought I did in my original post you so easily wrote off), why exactly do you expect so much more from a game than you do RL (aside from the obvious alternate reality)? As I stated in my OP, I would also like it if a game didn't give me the same troubles I face in RL however I certainly wouldn't fault them for doing so simply because it's realistic. So again I ask, why then do you feel your own dismissal should be so well accepted by the majority? This is not an attack so much as trying to understand why you feel so entitled when the developers (an arguably, after seeing the reaction on this thread from other players) have such a polar opposite opinoin?
Originally posted by XAPGames I'm wondering if it's an application of item decay. Gear damaged where repair exceeds replacement is essentially broken.
Well it is only partially true. You still get it repaired or replaced if you prefer with one click of mouse at NPC. When gear is really broken you must re-acquire it completly. Of course that works good in mmorpg's made for semi-casual, semi-core audiences and with good crafting and at least partially sandboxy gameplay.
Would not really work in GW2 or almost all pure themeparks.
As for why GW2 is highly gold dependant? Well it is normal with gems - > gold business model. Arena.net / NCSoft have to make money somehow.
Other explanation it could be if it were game with complex player economy, with focus on trading like in SWG or EVE, but it is not obviously.
Repair cost should be based on the value of the item. And should be less than that value.
Why?
Yeah, trying to figure that out. Many things in real life cost far more to repair than to replace, from can openers to autos, so sounds like GW2 is just being more realistic which I typically support in MMOs.
Well that's not entirelly true. Yes some items depending on type of damage are more expensive to repair than to replace with new one and always were.
BUT
Amount of things costly to repair increased in last 20 or so years, because of cheap import from China. For many reasons it is less expensive even for producer to just replace broken thing on warranty for new one instead of fixing it (althrough that depend on item type).
That situation will be reduced though in coming decades. Remember ~20 years ago and more it was more common to fix things instead of replacing them right? Also electionics and many other things were more expensive in relation to wages in west (althrough energy and housing was cheaper ;p),
Now. West is in crisis and is developing more slowly and even after crisis end will develop slower than less developed countries.
Wages in China while extremly low from UK / States point of view, grow alot faster than in those counties.
So my crystall ball tell me that in 10 years from now we west people will repair things instead of replacing them more freqently than now.
I can't begin to believe how many of you actually missed the point. I've gotten a slew of comments to this thread now advising me not to die so much and get better at playing the game. First off, I didn't ask for advice. It was addressing an issue. That issue is that it is ridiculous that repair costs, cost more than replacing a blue or green set of items. Dying in game has nothing to do with it other than being the cause of damaged armor which is NOT what I was addressing.
Dying in game has actually everything to do with the costs of repairs, since those costs are part of the penalty for dying. Mmh seriously, you don't make any sense anymore here...
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
There has to be something to spend money on in the game, and some reason to not die. Repair costs are one of the few things that you can use for these types of things in a theme park MMORPG.
It's probably setup so that if you only do one thing, or if you skip the PvE content and don't craft anything, you won't make much money. If you do a variety of content, it is certainly possible to make a good bit of in game money.
It could also be that the money system in GW2 isn't setup to accumulate as fast as other theme park games. If Anet expected people to play longer than they played in games like Rift or SWToR, they may have set things up so the money comes in slower.
Of course, the real point is for the player to do something about it. Do a variety of content, including crafting and using whatever the player selling system is, and yes, figure out how to die less to keep your expenses down.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by thekzeOne effective trick I found to prevent paying a fortune in repair costs:-Play intelligently and stop dying.This is not your standard MMO, it's a small step above that, gotta time your dodge, heals and keep an eye on your opponent.
Talking about PvE, its kind odd how people dies so much (with my necro i pass days without even get a downstate), well i dont made dungeons at all (want to skip then all), but mass DE with dragons , i remember to die 1 time- playing careful its the trick when you dont know the Boss-Champion.
People keep on saying there is 'NO PENALTY TO DYING' in games anymore. There is in GW2. Is it bad, not really compared to GW1 with the 15% DP added up to 60% (that is lowering your stats, HP, damage by that amount). GW, at least has some leeway, you don't lose stats until all our armor is damaged. I do think it is a decent system, though.
Originally posted by DavisFlight .... I never thought I'd see the day when people complained about a death penalty as nonexistant as GW2's...
In comparison to what? EvE maybe? Other than that?
And my complaint was that repair is far more expensive than buying new items if they are blues or even greens in some cases. That's off. As for a death penalty? I didnt complain about that at all. So your post is entirely invalid in every way.
In comparison to what? Just about every real MMORPG.
And the repair cost IS the death penalty buddy. That's the reason it costs more than buying new items. So my post is valid in every way.
The vendor value of the items is sort of irrelevant. In most games a very high value raid item (if it isn't bound) can be worth millions of in game gold, but vendor for a few silver. The repairs to those items are also always very expensive.
If all your armour gets toasted check the broker and see if you can replace it or upgrade it for the near the cost. Leveling armour isn't worth that much and sometimes you can get really good stuff for cheap. I upgraded my shortbow to a yellow for 23 silver (at level 75). That will get me to 80. Most of the time I can replace greens for a few silver each.
edit: Also, don't stop doing whatever you like, even if it is sort of spendy. Doing whatever I like how I like to do it and where I like to do it is one of the coolest things about this game.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by CorehavenOriginally posted by DavisFlight.... I never thought I'd see the day when people complained about a death penalty as nonexistant as GW2's...
In comparison to what? EvE maybe? Other than that? And my complaint was that repair is far more expensive than buying new items if they are blues or even greens in some cases. That's off. As for a death penalty? I didnt complain about that at all. So your post is entirely invalid in every way. In comparison to what? Just about every real MMORPG.
And the repair cost IS the death penalty buddy. That's the reason it costs more than buying new items. So my post is valid in every way.
That doesn't make any sense. The cost to repair gear should be a percentage of the cost to buy the gear in the first place. If a piece of gear can be bought for 1 silver, repairing that same gear shouldn't cost 2 silver. If that is what is happening, then it is a legitimate gripe that repairing gear is too expensive.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by DavisFlight.... I never thought I'd see the day when people complained about a death penalty as nonexistant as GW2's...
In comparison to what? EvE maybe? Other than that? And my complaint was that repair is far more expensive than buying new items if they are blues or even greens in some cases. That's off. As for a death penalty? I didnt complain about that at all. So your post is entirely invalid in every way.
In comparison to what? Just about every real MMORPG.
And the repair cost IS the death penalty buddy. That's the reason it costs more than buying new items. So my post is valid in every way.
That doesn't make any sense. The cost to repair gear should be a percentage of the cost to buy the gear in the first place. If a piece of gear can be bought for 1 silver, repairing that same gear shouldn't cost 2 silver. If that is what is happening, then it is a legitimate gripe that repairing gear is too expensive.
From the GW2 WIKI:
"NPCs marked with a broken red shield icon can repair armor for a cost of 4 plus 2 per level of the item. For example, an L80 item will cost 1 64 to fix.
The only variable affecting repairs costs is the level of the broken or damaged items.
Broken and damage gear costs the same to repair.
Item quality does not affect repair cost. Item level does.
It costs 11 48 to repair a full set of L80 armor.
Damaged items in inventory will be included in the repairs.
Rings, earrings, and amulets cannot be damaged.
Items that go in the breather and back slots can be broken."
It is too high when compared to the vendor value of an item. That just means vendors and repairers are ripping you off. When you play it's not exorbitant unless you just can't stop dying at all. Teleport charges are almost as ridiculous, so I don't really see the big issue.
Comments
Taxing player for dieing is ok. Its done trough repair cost and respawn cost.
Problem most people are complaining is high travel cost.
We have given rising travel prices that relate only to level of player - but we are not given alternative ways of travel (aka Mounts)
Basically game is forcing you - either stay in the same place all the time or be money penalised.
I know for a FACT I'll probably be flamed for saying this but I figured someone should offer a RL example of how the cost to repair something can EASILY be more expensive than the cost to simply replace it.
OP do you own a vehicle or have you ever known someone who has owned one and wrecked it? Depending on the severity of the vehicle after a wreck/crash the cost of repair can easily outweight the cost of replacement. In these situations the vehicle is usually given a salvage title and for the most part is considered not worth repairing/keeping. The only time this is not true is when the value of aftermarket products placed in the vehicle that still function would be too much of a burden to place in a new one (in RL this rarely ever the case, however in MMO's enhancement items that bind themselves to equipment you are left with little to no option).
Again, I know games are not RL (obviously) but to make a statement such as repairs should never cost more than the price to replace the equipment altogether are easily proven false by making RL comparisons. Vehicles are just one example but the same statement holds true for a LOT of material objects for sale. Just being the Devils advocate on this, personally I prefer costs not exceed that of replacements but I won't fault a company if they are for the aforementioned reasons.
When im leveling a toon, when i have at least 1 piece of armor broken im not repairing it ,i just go and buy a new gear alltogether cause anyway till it brakes im like 5 to 10 lvls above that gear so i would need gear upgrade anyway...
with my lvl 80 toon is alot different though..and i just be more carefull.. still the only way i can't really control me dying would be at dungeons and even more at pvp. I generaly dont agree on repairing cost for pvp although atm there is no other KO penalty for pvp and its the only way for people to not mass run to death..there are consenquences as it should.
sometime when i die i'm getting mad knowing that i will have to pay the repair cost
this repair cost makes you try to play with more attention and play smart
in dungeon i rarely die now (COE,Arah ...) because when i die it always remind me the repair cost and i try to avoid that at all cost
if there was no high repair cost people wouldnt care and just keep dying and run back to boss etc etc
i think its good they did that
high repair cost = motivation to stay alive
I am interested in your "repair cost seems to increase exponentailly the more pieces are broken" statement; could you educate me how your statement fits into the suggested "cost = A*exp(kx)" formula?
I can't begin to believe how many of you actually missed the point. I've gotten a slew of comments to this thread now advising me not to die so much and get better at playing the game. First off, I didn't ask for advice. It was addressing an issue. That issue is that it is ridiculous that repair costs, cost more than replacing a blue or green set of items. Dying in game has nothing to do with it other than being the cause of damaged armor which is NOT what I was addressing.
I don't die often in GW2. Usually, and I've already said this, I don't repair armor at all. I just replace it every ten levels and by then I might have damaged two or three chunks of it if that. Which is probably better than many of you do. So please can it about " play better. Don't die" garbage.
Repair cost should be based on the value of the item. And should be less than that value. It needs fine tuning. And enough with the "well in real life....take a car for example." Give me a break.
Repair costs need finer tuning in GW2. And its not about a death penalty when I don't mind one. Yet the penalty in this case is not a repair cost. Its just replacing the armor. Which once the old armor is sold? Is virtually nothing. So its not a penalty. Its just ridiculous the cost of the repair in many cases is much much higher than the cost of the armor.
Name another mmo that has that mechanic. Name another game that has that mechanic. Name a game where the repair cost can be higher than the item itself? I can name one. Guild Wars 2. Other than that I got nothin.
Why?
Why?
Yeah, trying to figure that out. Many things in real life cost far more to repair than to replace, from can openers to autos, so sounds like GW2 is just being more realistic which I typically support in MMOs.While other MMOs may not have done this in the past, I can't see a reason for them not to.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Corehaven I would also like to ask this question (eventhougth I thought I did in my original post you so easily wrote off), why exactly do you expect so much more from a game than you do RL (aside from the obvious alternate reality)? As I stated in my OP, I would also like it if a game didn't give me the same troubles I face in RL however I certainly wouldn't fault them for doing so simply because it's realistic. So again I ask, why then do you feel your own dismissal should be so well accepted by the majority? This is not an attack so much as trying to understand why you feel so entitled when the developers (an arguably, after seeing the reaction on this thread from other players) have such a polar opposite opinoin?
Well it is only partially true. You still get it repaired or replaced if you prefer with one click of mouse at NPC. When gear is really broken you must re-acquire it completly. Of course that works good in mmorpg's made for semi-casual, semi-core audiences and with good crafting and at least partially sandboxy gameplay.
Would not really work in GW2 or almost all pure themeparks.
As for why GW2 is highly gold dependant? Well it is normal with gems - > gold business model. Arena.net / NCSoft have to make money somehow.
Other explanation it could be if it were game with complex player economy, with focus on trading like in SWG or EVE, but it is not obviously.
With higher level gear your arguments catch up to themselves anyway. ...
Also, you skipped my post as well.
Well that's not entirelly true. Yes some items depending on type of damage are more expensive to repair than to replace with new one and always were.
BUT
Amount of things costly to repair increased in last 20 or so years, because of cheap import from China. For many reasons it is less expensive even for producer to just replace broken thing on warranty for new one instead of fixing it (althrough that depend on item type).
That situation will be reduced though in coming decades. Remember ~20 years ago and more it was more common to fix things instead of replacing them right? Also electionics and many other things were more expensive in relation to wages in west (althrough energy and housing was cheaper ;p),
Now. West is in crisis and is developing more slowly and even after crisis end will develop slower than less developed countries.
Wages in China while extremly low from UK / States point of view, grow alot faster than in those counties.
So my crystall ball tell me that in 10 years from now we west people will repair things instead of replacing them more freqently than now.
Ok off-top end. Sorry for that ;p
Dying in game has actually everything to do with the costs of repairs, since those costs are part of the penalty for dying. Mmh seriously, you don't make any sense anymore here...
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
There has to be something to spend money on in the game, and some reason to not die. Repair costs are one of the few things that you can use for these types of things in a theme park MMORPG.
It's probably setup so that if you only do one thing, or if you skip the PvE content and don't craft anything, you won't make much money. If you do a variety of content, it is certainly possible to make a good bit of in game money.
It could also be that the money system in GW2 isn't setup to accumulate as fast as other theme park games. If Anet expected people to play longer than they played in games like Rift or SWToR, they may have set things up so the money comes in slower.
Of course, the real point is for the player to do something about it. Do a variety of content, including crafting and using whatever the player selling system is, and yes, figure out how to die less to keep your expenses down.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
In comparison to what? Just about every real MMORPG.
And the repair cost IS the death penalty buddy. That's the reason it costs more than buying new items. So my post is valid in every way.
Heh. Barely.
The problem isn't that repairs are too expensive. I think the real problem is there is little to no value to replacement gear.
Good Post.
In comparison to what? Just about every real MMORPG.
And the repair cost IS the death penalty buddy. That's the reason it costs more than buying new items. So my post is valid in every way.
That doesn't make any sense. The cost to repair gear should be a percentage of the cost to buy the gear in the first place. If a piece of gear can be bought for 1 silver, repairing that same gear shouldn't cost 2 silver. If that is what is happening, then it is a legitimate gripe that repairing gear is too expensive.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
From the GW2 WIKI:
"NPCs marked with a broken red shield icon can repair armor for a cost of 4
plus 2 
per level of the item. For example, an L80 item will cost 1 
64 
to fix.
The only variable affecting repairs costs is the level of the broken or damaged items.