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Am I missing something about the ascended gear hysteria?

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  • TredvoltTredvolt OdensePosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by IPolygon
     
    With the introduction of a new tier you are outgeared by about 8% or more from those who have reached the next tier. Note that 8% is only one piece, so it culminates to a stat increase of more than 96% (6 trinket slots, 6 armor slots) overall.

    Quoted for lulz

  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Tredvolt
    Originally posted by IPolygon
     
    With the introduction of a new tier you are outgeared by about 8% or more from those who have reached the next tier. Note that 8% is only one piece, so it culminates to a stat increase of more than 96% (6 trinket slots, 6 armor slots) overall.

    Quoted for lulz

    That guy is so bad at math :P

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by knuckledust13

    The selling point of GW2 was no gear treadmill. Now they implemented a full fledged gear treadmill, which rewards players who grind more or buy more gems.

     

    ArenaNet has basically done everything they said they wouldn't and you still think this is "hysteria"? Just look at their recent take on Ascended gear on the Official forum, they think their playerbase is officially retard.

     

    One thing about them I like, tho: the refund policy. I just got my 60 bucks back 2 days ago, couldn't be happier.

    I would agree with Arenanet: if their customers aren't willing to take responsability for their purchase despite knowing that changes may happen, then they deserve no more than scorn. I am actually surprised that Arenanet released so much free content already despite the negative astmosphere. 

    um,  a few million people payed $60 minimum a piece for that content.  nothing free about it.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon

    Exotic -> Legendary : Optional grind.

    Exotic -> Ascended - mandatory grind to achieve max stats.

     

    Do people resurrect strangers only because of the XP amount?

    No, but it is kinda nice,isn't it?

    It is if as if the game is rewarding you for the playing hte game right.

    Do WoW players need to do raids?

    Not really, but isn't WoW telling the players "look at these powerfull stats that will make you the most powerful."

    So what did legendary items told the player?

    Look I'm so shinny, you don't need me but you'll look great.

    What doe ascended items say to the players?

    Come and get me,I'm the best in slot items.

     

    Do players need ascended items?

    If we want we can say we don't even need to play GW2, we don't need to dodge, we don't need to get traits, etc, it is a game so we don't really need anything.

    But if we see it like that wtf are we doing in a games forum?

     

    And about Anet being happy by the changes.

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Lost-Shores-Arenanet-s-Cry-for-Help

    "

    First, think of the name. Lost Shores. Lost. Obviously, many of us would agree that Arenanet is starting to lose it’s direction, but is that because they’ve lost control of their game? Keep reading.

    Second, and I want to give credit to Maclav for pointing this out. Here are just a few “cries for help” in the latest update:

    -A golem named BUY-4373 (4373 is a MS security error about remote attacks)
    -An NPC named Subdirector Blingg
    -A jumping puzzle named Under New Management
    -A dungeon who’s anacronym is “Flavour of the Month”

    Also, there’s now a position at Arenanet titled “Monetization Producer”, held by a person who was formerly a producer at Nexon. Nervous yet?

    Finally, we have the Consortium, a new group of “traders” introduce to directly compete with the Black Lion Trading Company. We know that the BLTC has been Arenanet’s trademarked cash shop. Could the Consortium be a nod to Nexon coming in to take over?

    Put on your tin-foil hats, folks. And maybe it’s time to level criticism where it’s really due.

    EDIT: http://www.bizjournals.com/prnewswire/press_releases/2012/06/08/NY21443 – June 8th, 2012 Nexon aquires 14.7% of NCsoft, GW2’s publisher."

    Might be all coincidence, just like the jerseys were coincidence...

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Banquetto
    Anyone who says "ascended is between exotic and legendary" is flat out lying and borderline trolling.

    Everyone well knows that legendaries have [b]identical [/b] stats to exotics. Ascended gear has stats up to 40% higher.

    You can't directly compare since there are only legendary weapons, and only ascended rings and cloaks, but they are a brand new tier with previously unseen high stats.

    Where is your proof on that. Mining the dat file means nothing because there is quite a bit that is not used in the dat file. You have to actually SEE the item to know if it exsists. What I mean by that there is a whole map of Tyria in the DAT file - I mean the WHOLE WORLD. We are only playing a small part of it - does that mean it is valid? All it means they may be thinking ahead or just put all the items/maps in only to limit what can come out.

     

    As I said - taking a wait and see approach.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon

    I don't see a reason to play this game after you get to 80 and get a full set of exotics, there is nothing else to do. You don't have to really do anything to get the exotics either, except buy them off the tp or make them with mats bought off the tp. Legendaries really give me nothing to look forward too unless you like rainbows and unicorns. I have 3 80's now, really didnt have to play too much of the game to get the second and third one to 80 since you get 10 levels for maxing out crafting you can powerlevel your alts for a few gold. All 3 80's have full exotic gear and have no reason to play them now.

    WvW has been a ghost town the last few weeks, been on SBI since week 2 after launch. All borderlands have 0 que time and there is nothing to really do when you get in there. I liked the orbs, but instead of fix them they just removed them. The maps are getting boring and they are all the same except EB.

    Adding gear would help, to give something to do with my 80's.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member
    This is one hatewagon I haven't joined in on, really. It doesn't really bother me.  The only aspect of it that does, is the emphasis on running instances to get it.  I think that's a serious mistake for any MMO, to focus so much on instanced content.  Makes the rest of the world deserted, and if you don't enjoy that type of content, you're SOL.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Banquetto
    Anyone who says "ascended is between exotic and legendary" is flat out lying and borderline trolling.

    Everyone well knows that legendaries have [b]identical [/b] stats to exotics. Ascended gear has stats up to 40% higher.

    You can't directly compare since there are only legendary weapons, and only ascended rings and cloaks, but they are a brand new tier with previously unseen high stats.

    Where is your proof on that. Mining the dat file means nothing because there is quite a bit that is not used in the dat file. You have to actually SEE the item to know if it exsists. What I mean by that there is a whole map of Tyria in the DAT file - I mean the WHOLE WORLD. We are only playing a small part of it - does that mean it is valid? All it means they may be thinking ahead or just put all the items/maps in only to limit what can come out.

     

    As I said - taking a wait and see approach.

    Actually with the update, legendary items were wrongly updated to ascended stats.

    They have been reverted since.

    Taking a wait and see approach is ok, denying reality on the other hand isn't.

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Legendary-Weapons-Boosted-to-Ascended-Stats

     

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • PoporiPopori Hickory Grove, SCPosts: 334Member

    I'm sure a fair number of folks would defend ANet if they started charging $15 a month for expansion content as long as the core game remained B2P.

    I mean hey, ANet just said GW2 would be B2P, not all the expansions.  And man, change happens.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    What we had before was

    Tier 1: Exotic

    Tier 3: Legendary

    What we got now is

    Tier 1: Exotic

    Tier 2: Ascended

    Tier 3: Legendary

     

    Anet just filled in the blanks for those who don't have the time or desire to farm for legendary and I find that was a smart move.

     

     

    That is not true. Exotics and Legendaries had the exact same stats. The only difference was the grind to get a Legendary. It was a dumb move, there never was a gap, since Legendaries were purely cosmetical upgrades.

     

    With the introduction of a new tier you are outgeared by about 8% or more from those who have reached the next tier. Note that 8% is only one piece, so it culminates to a stat increase of more than 96% (6 trinket slots, 6 armor slots) overall. Of course you will do better than anyone equipped with a lower tier.

     

    Needless to say Ascended gear is another grind as someone found out http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13gj0p/ascended_gear_and_infusions_how_to_make_them_and/ . Feel free to make up your mind, but the gear grind is there and probably as good as Aion's. Before the update, grind for gear was mostly optional. You had to save a little karma for full exotics, but that's easy to get and could work towards a cosmetic upgrade. Now with Ascended gear, grind becomes mandatory and Ascended gear will make all prior content obsolete/too easy. Thanks to a dumb down-scaling system.

     

    There was a gap, but it was a time-gap instead of a stat-gap. So, stick a tier in between them that will take a decent amount of time, but less than legendary, and give it a small stat increase to make it worthwhile. Give legendaries a small boost to make them worth while. Now spread your future tiers laterally within these bands and viola! Progression without the treadmill. 

     

    As long as they don't continue to push out tiers with greater stats (which would, imo, introduce the treadmill and make me a sad quaggan) and progress laterally with the ascended and legendaries I believe we'll be fine and they'll be sticking to their philosophy quite nicely. Had ascended gear been available out of the gate there would have been no complaints, nor should there be now.  It's the future I'm going to be keeping an eye on though. The direction they go from here will tell much more than the path they took to get here. So let's not panic... yet. 

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BattleFelon

    I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

    I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

    So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

    Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Vhaln
    This is one hatewagon I haven't joined in on, really.

    Can only raise enough energy for so many firestorms per annum locally.  I don't want to waste them.

    This one (the mmorpg.com version) seemed to build around a single dedicated individual and a sycophant, last time I bothered to peek in.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by Kalstark
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Content should not be gated by something like gear. It's purely bad game design. People shouldn't be locked out of content period, much less have to go through a linear set of chores before they can get to said content.

    And while its only a small set of chores so far, as this game grows eventually there'll be multiple tiers you have to grind before you see new areas.

     

    DAoC managed just fine without ever doing that. Raids were gated by SKILL and CHALLENGE, not by artificial stat barriers.

    yeah there will be different tiers but you wont have to complete tier 1 to get tto tier 2 as they've already explained and stated, again i just dont get what the problem is

    You can't skip levels. its called progression yo

     

    Edit: Currently, Legendaries have the same stats as exotics. Anyone who says Legendaries have higher stats don't know what they are talking about.

    The community outrage is because the new content does the following

    1) Creates gating- Right now, you are limited to the level of fractal you earned. You can't skip levels. On top of this, drops increase in quality and quanity are increased as you level. Leveling fractals is only done by completing a fractal set.

    Not only that, but future content will require Agony buffs. Don't expect to do new content (whether dungeons or not) unless you "earned" Ascended armor from the privious dungeon

    2) Adds in an insane amount of grind. It appears to take at least 10-15hrs to get your first ring, which may not even be the one you need for your build. 

    3) Better gear is tied to RNG. Currently, Mist Essence is a random drop. People have found ways to grind it out, but its still a random drop. 

    4) The entire feeling of the community has changed. Peopel are now kicking people out of groups, or refusing them in groups, based on levels

    Which would fit very nicely for those who are screaming they want more "progression".

     

    I've never heard that, please source that info.  It seems to me they are adding all kinds of different content to the game.  So, there may be some content that fills that bill but I'd bet only a small portion of it would be that way.  Like, one dungeon out of a "mini-expansion".  You know, like they just did with the Lost Shores.

     

    For those who have played 600+ hours in the last two months, that's a drop in the bucket.  Besides, if it only took an hour, how many people would be bitching they have nothing to do and it was too easy to get the "good" gear?

     

    So is pretty much everything in the game.  So, what's your point?

     

    OMG call the MMO police.  Isn't that what happens in virtually every game?  So what if some guilds want to be exclusive?  There are many, many guilds out there that aren't.

    image

    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

    Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by BattleFelon

    I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

    I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

    So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

    Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

    For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

     

    ...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

     

    So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

    image

    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

    Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member
    Originally posted by Fearum

    I don't see a reason to play this game after you get to 80 and get a full set of exotics, there is nothing else to do. You don't have to really do anything to get the exotics either, except buy them off the tp or make them with mats bought off the tp. Legendaries really give me nothing to look forward too unless you like rainbows and unicorns. I have 3 80's now, really didnt have to play too much of the game to get the second and third one to 80 since you get 10 levels for maxing out crafting you can powerlevel your alts for a few gold. All 3 80's have full exotic gear and have no reason to play them now.

    WvW has been a ghost town the last few weeks, been on SBI since week 2 after launch. All borderlands have 0 que time and there is nothing to really do when you get in there. I liked the orbs, but instead of fix them they just removed them. The maps are getting boring and they are all the same except EB.

    Adding gear would help, to give something to do with my 80's.

    Seems like a waste to power level characters like that.

    What are you rushing for? 

    Level 80 is just a number, same with stats on gear. 

    You play these games because they're enjoyable right?

    Why are you rushing through the gameplay for the numbers? 

    Acting as if 99% of the game is simply in the way of you being 80 with exotics on...

    Should have saved yourself the trouble and kept your cc/money in your pocket.

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evolver1972
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by BattleFelon

    I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

    I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

    So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

    Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

    For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

     

    ...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

     

    So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

    Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats. Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

    Actually does gear score in wow prevent you from entering a dungeon/raid if you walk to the instance instead of using the dungeon/raid finder?

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • ZzadZzad Palma de MallorcaPosts: 1,332Member Uncommon
    4) The entire feeling of the community has changed. Peopel are now kicking people out of groups, or refusing them in groups, based on levels

    That´s the thing i hate most of this new dungeon & ascended gear  :(

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by evolver1972
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by BattleFelon

    I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

    I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

    So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

    Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

    For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

     

    ...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

     

    So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

    Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

    Ok....where's the grind?

     

    "if the gear you're looking for naturally drops...."

     

    Would you have been ok with Ascended gear if it was there when the game was first released?  If so, why is it a problem now?  If they don't make any new tiers in the future, where's the problem?

    image

    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

    Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by evolver1972
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by BattleFelon

    I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

    I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

    So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

    Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

    For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

     

    ...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

     

    So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

    Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

    When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Seems like a waste to power level characters like that.

    What are you rushing for? 

    Level 80 is just a number, same with stats on gear. 

    You play these games because they're enjoyable right?

    Why are you rushing through the gameplay for the numbers? 

    Acting as if 99% of the game is simply in the way of you being 80 with exotics on...

    Should have saved yourself the trouble and kept your cc/money in your pocket.

     

    I haven't been rushing, but I still got to level 80 eventually.  I even tried like hell to avoid it, by making lots of alts.. but now, here I am, and find myself on the verge of quitting, because there's nothing I want to do.  Just feels like a dead end.  I wish they had some sandbox or fluff type RP things to do, at least.  Or maybe PvP that was more like RvR, but I know that'll never happen.  They need *something* other than cosmetics for people to work towards, longterm.

     

    Seems like ANet is completely clueless when it comes to the concept of making gameplay rewarding.  Even pac-man had levels, and people played to get to the next one, until they got to the end.  Progression is a concept that's been a part of video games as long as they've existed.  

     

    Cutting that away in the name of fun, is like saying candy doesn't need sugar, because its candy.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by BattleFelon

    I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

    I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

    So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

    I think majority are angry or upset more because of the prinicple behind the changes than the actual change? i could be wrong though. But from i have gathered so far players are unhappy because Anet went against its own original design of ' stats being the same for eveyone' and 'grind for appearance items only'.

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by evolver1972
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by BattleFelon

    I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

    I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

    So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

    Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

    For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

     

    ...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

     

    So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

    Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

    When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.

    I stand corrected.  However, considering that before and after this video was released their mantra was "We don't want players to have to grind", I'd consider that one a mistake.

     

    But, maybe that's just me being in denial.  I figure that GW1 had a bunch of optional grind, why wouldn't GW2?  The biggest difference to me is that I don't have to grind to get necessary gear.  And so far, I have yet to see Ascended gear as being a) necessary - unless you want to do one specific thing in the game - and b) not really a grind anyway.

    image

    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

    Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member
    Originally posted by Vhaln
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Seems like a waste to power level characters like that.

    What are you rushing for? 

    Level 80 is just a number, same with stats on gear. 

    You play these games because they're enjoyable right?

    Why are you rushing through the gameplay for the numbers? 

    Acting as if 99% of the game is simply in the way of you being 80 with exotics on...

    Should have saved yourself the trouble and kept your cc/money in your pocket.

     

    I haven't been rushing, but I still got to level 80 eventually.  I even tried like hell to avoid it, by making lots of alts.. but now, here I am, and find myself on the verge of quitting, because there's nothing I want to do.  Just feels like a dead end.  I wish they had some sandbox or fluff type RP things to do, at least.  Or maybe PvP that was more like RvR, but I know that'll never happen.  They need *something* other than cosmetics for people to work towards, longterm.

     

    Seems like ANet is completely clueless when it comes to the concept of making gameplay rewarding.  Even pac-man had levels, and people played to get to the next one, until they got to the end.  Progression is a concept that's been a part of video games as long as they've existed.  

     

    Cutting that away in the name of fun, is like saying candy doesn't need sugar, because its candy.

    You dont like the new zone? or the dungeon??

    I have one level 80 ranger, im still doing map completion with that guy while leveling a Necro & Eng. 

     

    Edit: I've played a ton of MMOs and honestly its always the same. You level, hit max level, max out a craft or two, dungeon run for gear, pvp for gear (cosmetic or stat based) and wait for more content. 

    Wow, Rift, SWTOR, LOTRO, AOC, WAR, AION, TERA, TSW, EQ2, Vanguard... i can go on and on. All of them offer a similar end goal. 

     

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evolver1972
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by evolver1972
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by BattleFelon

    I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

    I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

    So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

    Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

    For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

     

    ...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

     

    So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

    Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

    Ok....where's the grind?

     

    "if the gear you're looking for naturally drops...."

     

    Would you have been ok with Ascended gear if it was there when the game was first released?  If so, why is it a problem now?  If they don't make any new tiers in the future, where's the problem?

    Depends on how much time it is required to grind for the item.

    Depends on how you can obtain them.

    It would at least been a known quantity from the beggining.

    And in the future you will be saying "What if Super Ascended was in the game from the beggining? What if they don't introduce a new tier on top of super ascended, where is the problem".

    But that is not the full story.

    The story is Anet introduced Ascended items because:

    1) A gap between exotics and legendary. -> Now there is a gap between ascended and legendary. Curiously the first items have no legendary couter-part. Funny, isn't it? maybe they could have introduced legendary armor and back slots since amulets and rings have no 3D model;

    2) Players have complained that there is nothing to after level 80 and acquiring exotic items. The same players will say there is nothing to do once they acquire ascended items.

    Now, you might need to see what happens to the glass that is knocked over the edge of the table before declaring it will fall to the floor. I'll just say the glass will fall to the floor so there is no need to knock it.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Originally posted by BattleFelon

    I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

    I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

    So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

    I think majority are angry or upset more because of the prinicple behind the changes than the actual change? i could be wrong though. But from i have gathered so far players are unhappy because Anet went against its own original design of ' stats being the same for eveyone' and 'grind for appearance items only'.

    If it's just a one time deal where Anet fixed what they felt was a gap, how is that going against their original design?  And Legendaries are still the highest level items in the game and are grinded (?) for appearance only.

     

    Does anyone realize they can still skip the Ascended gear and go straight for Legendaries, just like they did before?  Or, at least, that's the plan that hasn't been fully implemented yet.  And once you get Legendaries, you have infusion slots, just like Ascended gear.  So.....if you have such a problem with Ascended gear, skip it.  Work toward Legendaries instead.

    image

    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

    Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

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