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The Silence of the Lambs: Manifestos Death

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Comments

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by grimal

    Personally, I never cared for the lore (what lore?) in either game.  Just seemed very generic and uninteresting to me.

    I still play but I am in it just for the 1-80 PVE stuff.

    There is plenty of lore - more than Rift or WoW for that matter. You actually have to listen to the NPC's to understand that.

     

    http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore - GW1

     

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lore - GW2 (which includes GW1 hence we wouldn't have the Sylvari race).

     

    Hence why the Personal Story is important - it gives you a sense that you are helping to determine what is happening in the world.

     

    Another whine thread - Mods can we just close this one or merge it with the others? We don't need the same people posting the same stuff in all the threads.

    I don't think anyone said there wasn't Lore...but the Lore is VERY Generic fantasy...it's really bad.  I believe that my 7 year old son could have probably written better stories.  

    I'll never get it though.  I can't even log into the game (yes I give up on trying to get to endgame)....the game is really generic. But, to each his/her own.  Im glad some can extract enjoyment from such a dry and lifeless game.  

    I thought the same of EVE, Vanguard, WoW, Rift, TSW, etc - I played a bunch - all are lifeless. All had boring lore then along  with the GW universe (based on your opinion).  The GW books were decent and helped to forward things along or don't you like books?

    not only do I love books, but I also have a hobby where I write short stories.  My favorite books:  1984, Brave New World, Atlas Shrugged, Farhenheit 451, Animal Farm, We, Anthem, any book where a libertian minded author explains their philosophy (that list goes on forever), The Law....there are probably more, but those are the ones off the top of my head.  

    TSW actually presents its story very well and the lore is tightly written.  WoW, Rift, Vanguard and others are really bad....but then again, they didnt bother attempting a personal story cuz they knew they'd fail...ANet didnt get the memo

    TSW - really? I felt the lore was second to the game play. There was no lore at all.

    Well, i guess you don't read much?  Each set of lore had a mini story that you could read if you wanted to.  Also, the quests were very much so driven by the lore you could have read.

    I read alot - I even took a course in undergrad on King Arthur and the Round Table.

     

    Same with GW2, the lore is there if you cared to read it.

     

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • CookieTimeCookieTime SomewherePosts: 353Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by CookieTime
    I must say, these doomsayers' titles are getting quite unique.

    Once you read in - all the threads are the same - DOOM AND GLOOM!!!

    Yeah.. pretty much.

    Eat me!

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by grimal

    Personally, I never cared for the lore (what lore?) in either game.  Just seemed very generic and uninteresting to me.

    I still play but I am in it just for the 1-80 PVE stuff.

    There is plenty of lore - more than Rift or WoW for that matter. You actually have to listen to the NPC's to understand that.

     

    http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore - GW1

     

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lore - GW2 (which includes GW1 hence we wouldn't have the Sylvari race).

     

    Hence why the Personal Story is important - it gives you a sense that you are helping to determine what is happening in the world.

     

    Another whine thread - Mods can we just close this one or merge it with the others? We don't need the same people posting the same stuff in all the threads.

    I don't think anyone said there wasn't Lore...but the Lore is VERY Generic fantasy...it's really bad.  I believe that my 7 year old son could have probably written better stories.  

    I'll never get it though.  I can't even log into the game (yes I give up on trying to get to endgame)....the game is really generic. But, to each his/her own.  Im glad some can extract enjoyment from such a dry and lifeless game.  

    I thought the same of EVE, Vanguard, WoW, Rift, TSW, etc - I played a bunch - all are lifeless. All had boring lore then along  with the GW universe (based on your opinion).  The GW books were decent and helped to forward things along or don't you like books?

    not only do I love books, but I also have a hobby where I write short stories.  My favorite books:  1984, Brave New World, Atlas Shrugged, Farhenheit 451, Animal Farm, We, Anthem, any book where a libertian minded author explains their philosophy (that list goes on forever), The Law....there are probably more, but those are the ones off the top of my head.  

    TSW actually presents its story very well and the lore is tightly written.  WoW, Rift, Vanguard and others are really bad....but then again, they didnt bother attempting a personal story cuz they knew they'd fail...ANet didnt get the memo

    TSW - really? I felt the lore was second to the game play. There was no lore at all.

    Well, i guess you don't read much?  Each set of lore had a mini story that you could read if you wanted to.  Also, the quests were very much so driven by the lore you could have read.

    I read alot - I even took a course in undergrad on King Arthur and the Round Table.

     

    Same with GW2, the lore is there if you cared to read it.

     

    I read and listened...most of it was empty hollow and predictable...the other parts were only humorous because they didnt make sense or contradicted other parts.

    image
  • SilentstormSilentstorm Rahway, NJPosts: 1,159Member

    I'll give you the cliff note version for the whole post. (They changed something slightly OMG rage I'm bored so I'm going to blindly complain. "WITHOUT ACTUALLY PLAYING AND DOING IT". On the forums know nothing of what I am talking about and make several post showing more I don't know wtf I'm talking about. More people will follow me in not knowing wtf we are talking about! And fill the forum with a whole bunch of people not knowing wtf they are talking about.)

    That pretty much sums up these posts over and over.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by grimal

    Personally, I never cared for the lore (what lore?) in either game.  Just seemed very generic and uninteresting to me.

    I still play but I am in it just for the 1-80 PVE stuff.

    There is plenty of lore - more than Rift or WoW for that matter. You actually have to listen to the NPC's to understand that.

     

    http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore - GW1

     

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lore - GW2 (which includes GW1 hence we wouldn't have the Sylvari race).

     

    Hence why the Personal Story is important - it gives you a sense that you are helping to determine what is happening in the world.

     

    Another whine thread - Mods can we just close this one or merge it with the others? We don't need the same people posting the same stuff in all the threads.

    I don't think anyone said there wasn't Lore...but the Lore is VERY Generic fantasy...it's really bad.  I believe that my 7 year old son could have probably written better stories.  

    I'll never get it though.  I can't even log into the game (yes I give up on trying to get to endgame)....the game is really generic. But, to each his/her own.  Im glad some can extract enjoyment from such a dry and lifeless game.  

    I thought the same of EVE, Vanguard, WoW, Rift, TSW, etc - I played a bunch - all are lifeless. All had boring lore then along  with the GW universe (based on your opinion).  The GW books were decent and helped to forward things along or don't you like books?

    not only do I love books, but I also have a hobby where I write short stories.  My favorite books:  1984, Brave New World, Atlas Shrugged, Farhenheit 451, Animal Farm, We, Anthem, any book where a libertian minded author explains their philosophy (that list goes on forever), The Law....there are probably more, but those are the ones off the top of my head.  

    TSW actually presents its story very well and the lore is tightly written.  WoW, Rift, Vanguard and others are really bad....but then again, they didnt bother attempting a personal story cuz they knew they'd fail...ANet didnt get the memo

    TSW - really? I felt the lore was second to the game play. There was no lore at all.

    Well, i guess you don't read much?  Each set of lore had a mini story that you could read if you wanted to.  Also, the quests were very much so driven by the lore you could have read.

    I read alot - I even took a course in undergrad on King Arthur and the Round Table.

     

    Same with GW2, the lore is there if you cared to read it.

     

    I read and listened...most of it was empty hollow and predictable...the other parts were only humorous because they didnt make sense or contradicted other parts.

    It does make sense if you fit it in with GW1 lore.

     

    But as many said - most games the lore is 2ndary. The only one that really had rich lore was SWTOR and you saw what they did with that - wasted it.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,806Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CookieTime
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by CookieTime
    I must say, these doomsayers' titles are getting quite unique.

    Once you read in - all the threads are the same - DOOM AND GLOOM!!!

    Yeah.. pretty much.

    Why aren't you guys exalting more gear tiers and grind for stats?

    People complain about that, you guys talk about the content! Yeah, I like the content as well.

    I just dislike all the ascended business.

    And none of you are actually very happy with the new gear grind since you were bashing gear grind and vertical progression not a week ago.

    Come on say that you want gear grind, that you want more grind for stats, a never ending treadmill of items.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon

    It does make sense if you fit it in with GW1 lore.

     

    But as many said - most games the lore is 2ndary. The only one that really had rich lore was SWTOR and you saw what they did with that - wasted it.

    SWTOR?  I will give GW this much:  it had better lore than SWTOR

    ....SWTOR tried so hard to make a compelling story and they fell flat on their face.  The issue was interaction.  Players could interact with the lore which gave it a dimension it couldn't handle (imho).  The more moving pieces, the less structure something can have.

    I think, although many hate TSW for it, that not allowing players to interact in the dialogue and story was key to the story being so great.  The devs made you more an observer than the actual hero...and rightfully so...that was done intentionally by the devs and worked very well...at least for me.  I still tell my kids to stop talking and put up "stop sign" hands to my wife when I go to click on a new quest in TSW...only game I ever cared to do that in.  I also still haven't reached endgame...Im seriously taking my time though and took a break for a little to try to get to 80 in GW2...I couldnt though.

    I did think that the GW1 lore was good.  I got really into the lore actually...just couldnt get into the game :P

     

    image
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,204Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by botrytis

    TSW - really? I felt the lore was second to the game play. There was no lore at all.

    Well, i guess you don't read much?  Each set of lore had a mini story that you could read if you wanted to.  Also, the quests were very much so driven by the lore you could have read.

    Which again, isn't any different that GW2, LotRO, STO, WoW, EQ2, rift, and so on.  They all have text driven story telling that could be read and engaged with by the player.  How is it so much different for TSW than it is for every other game on the market.  It isn't.

    I could put "The Devil Wears Prada" and "The Fountainhead" in the same book cover and present them exactly the same...Does that make what's inside the same as well?

    Underdog protagonist fights a system against incredible odds of changing the system.  The rest is gold lamé.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,204Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Randayn

    It does make sense if you fit it in with GW1 lore.

     

    But as many said - most games the lore is 2ndary. The only one that really had rich lore was SWTOR and you saw what they did with that - wasted it.

    SWTOR?  I will give GW this much:  it had better lore than SWTOR

    ....SWTOR tried so hard to make a compelling story and they fell flat on their face.  The issue was interaction.  Players could interact with the lore which gave it a dimension it couldn't handle (imho).  The more moving pieces, the less structure something can have.

    I think, although many hate TSW for it, that not allowing players to interact in the dialogue and story was key to the story being so great.  The devs made you more an observer than the actual hero...and rightfully so...that was done intentionally by the devs and worked very well...at least for me.  I still tell my kids to stop talking and put up "stop sign" hands to my wife when I go to click on a new quest in TSW...only game I ever cared to do that in.  I also still haven't reached endgame...Im seriously taking my time though and took a break for a little to try to get to 80 in GW2...I couldnt though.

    I did think that the GW1 lore was good.  I got really into the lore actually...just couldnt get into the game :P

    The problem here, and you really prove the point, is that good is subjective.  You think TSW has great lore because you like it.  You think the rest stinks because you don't.  The compelling story is in the eye of the beholder.  You're talking in absolutes about a subjective topic.

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Originally posted by Clerigo

    It has begun...

    The fanboys say its all cool nothing is going on.

    The drama queens start the shedding of the tears and the opera recitals.

    I just love this game. Been a long time supporter. PLaying it and hope to continue to play, but something is stirring at a far alright.

    It has begun.

    This, if it goes on as rumoured, will be the undertaking and final journey of that hero, that bold and brave figure, always willing to go where no game has gone before, that hero "Manifesto" will soon meet his nemesis, "Mr. Old Formulae" and his terrible minions "mr. gear treadmill" and "mrs. dungeon gaping"...will he survive?

    I cant believe that the same team that brought us the quality and assurance of GW Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall and EotN will sucumbe to the pressure of the moaning squad of this terrible generation of players, where eveything seems to be about geting the next tier of gear, the next cute little colorful pair of bits and bytes, to devour everything that is vertical in the game and forget about the pure joy of gaming.

    im going to quickly translate a simple chat i add with a game friend recently, skipping some boring stuff:

    Me: "I heard about this Ascended Gear thingy coming(...) dont understand. 3 months of life and already adding content"

    Him: "Great. Theres nothing to do already. Need new stuff. New gear, new dungeon(...)"

    Me: "Nothing to do? You finsihed the game already?"

    Him: "The story yes"

    Me: "well ok and all the maps?(...) done all meta events? theres some cool stuff out there"

    Him: "Meta what?...yeah ive done the dragon and stuff."

    Me: So you havent played all the maps, you havent done almost any meta events (they r around 50 i think)..so what have you done?"

    Him: "Yeah lol WvW and stuff (...) got my gear in TA cant be bothered to do others. Its the same thing(...)"

    Me: "Those dungeons are part of the games lore. they r fun to do. and some skins r great to have also"

    Him: "Nah seen everything theres to see. Games lore what? lol dont care about that.(...) gonna do new dungeons and stuff. cool loot they say(...) ppl dont bother to go do old dungeons now(...)know a site with list of the new dungeon loot?(...)hey been here all day im at lvl 6 in the fotm dungeon :)(...)im bored gonna log. playing a bit in ---- now (...)

    Me: "sigh"

    So this guy knows nothing of the games lore. He barely does any WvW or SPvP. He grinded the same dungeon over and over until he got his set and doesnt want to do the others because its "the same". He barely has the patience to stop at a given spot an admire the artwork, he doesnt listen to the games soundtrack. He rushes the game pace, devours 20% of the content and says "theres nothing to do". So he now devours the FotMs dungeons, grinding it away, moaning about the drops, ignorant to everything that this game has to offer, and its in the hands of people like this that i have to bow to in order to get a populated game???

    I even commented that i was worried about this kind of progression creating ghost areas and dungeons, as it happens in every game with vertical progression, and the reply had words like "gear score", "LFG Queue system" yeah so players can sit their behinds all day in Lions Arch and Queue for every content in the game....what is going on??

    So, the hero "manifesto" has its hands full. And it is not looking good.

    Lets remind all of the "manifestos" powers and abilities. He does not have adamantium claws but he has:

    “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1” – M. O’Brien

    “We just don’t want players to grind in GW2” – C. Johanson

    “The most important thing in any game should be the player” – R. Soesbee

    “Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
    - Mike Obrien, President of Anet

    “We don’t need to make gear treadmills”
    Colin Johanson on how ArenaNet measures success.

    Can it be enough to destroy the ignorance of foul creatures and deeds?

    And now you see why i said before that im quitting MMORPGs and GW2 willbe the last one that i played. Guys like those are dictating the market now. It has became sad.

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Randayn

    It does make sense if you fit it in with GW1 lore.

     

    But as many said - most games the lore is 2ndary. The only one that really had rich lore was SWTOR and you saw what they did with that - wasted it.

    SWTOR?  I will give GW this much:  it had better lore than SWTOR

    ....SWTOR tried so hard to make a compelling story and they fell flat on their face.  The issue was interaction.  Players could interact with the lore which gave it a dimension it couldn't handle (imho).  The more moving pieces, the less structure something can have.

    I think, although many hate TSW for it, that not allowing players to interact in the dialogue and story was key to the story being so great.  The devs made you more an observer than the actual hero...and rightfully so...that was done intentionally by the devs and worked very well...at least for me.  I still tell my kids to stop talking and put up "stop sign" hands to my wife when I go to click on a new quest in TSW...only game I ever cared to do that in.  I also still haven't reached endgame...Im seriously taking my time though and took a break for a little to try to get to 80 in GW2...I couldnt though.

    I did think that the GW1 lore was good.  I got really into the lore actually...just couldnt get into the game :P

    The problem here, and you really prove the point, is that good is subjective.  You think TSW has great lore because you like it.  You think the rest stinks because you don't.  The compelling story is in the eye of the beholder.  You're talking in absolutes about a subjective topic.

    I can see your point in a very broad way, but I was talking about the depth and level, rather than whether the story fits your liking.  I can name off (as Im sure you could) 100 other fantasy novels that much better than the lore in some of those games.  TSW, on the other hand, is pretty unique.  there are books like it out there, but I don't think that TSW is on a lower level than them in the ways of depth and level.  I know that Im being broad enough to seem subjective, but can easily give objective examples if you'd like.  I'll just need to revisit the games.

    image
  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon

    And now you see why i said before that im quitting MMORPGs and GW2 willbe the last one that i played. Guys like those are dictating the market now. It has became sad.

    That's funny....it's because of GW2 that I've lost all hope in "The Artist Formerly Known as MMORPG"

    image
  • wordizwordiz Eugene, ORPosts: 464Member
    Originally posted by Clerigo

    It has begun...

    The fanboys say its all cool nothing is going on.

    The drama queens start the shedding of the tears and the opera recitals.

    I just love this game. Been a long time supporter. PLaying it and hope to continue to play, but something is stirring at a far alright.

    It has begun.

    This, if it goes on as rumoured, will be the undertaking and final journey of that hero, that bold and brave figure, always willing to go where no game has gone before, that hero "Manifesto" will soon meet his nemesis, "Mr. Old Formulae" and his terrible minions "mr. gear treadmill" and "mrs. dungeon gaping"...will he survive?

    I cant believe that the same team that brought us the quality and assurance of GW Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall and EotN will sucumbe to the pressure of the moaning squad of this terrible generation of players, where eveything seems to be about geting the next tier of gear, the next cute little colorful pair of bits and bytes, to devour everything that is vertical in the game and forget about the pure joy of gaming.

    im going to quickly translate a simple chat i add with a game friend recently, skipping some boring stuff:

    Me: "I heard about this Ascended Gear thingy coming(...) dont understand. 3 months of life and already adding content"

    Him: "Great. Theres nothing to do already. Need new stuff. New gear, new dungeon(...)"

    Me: "Nothing to do? You finsihed the game already?"

    Him: "The story yes"

    Me: "well ok and all the maps?(...) done all meta events? theres some cool stuff out there"

    Him: "Meta what?...yeah ive done the dragon and stuff."

    Me: So you havent played all the maps, you havent done almost any meta events (they r around 50 i think)..so what have you done?"

    Him: "Yeah lol WvW and stuff (...) got my gear in TA cant be bothered to do others. Its the same thing(...)"

    Me: "Those dungeons are part of the games lore. they r fun to do. and some skins r great to have also"

    Him: "Nah seen everything theres to see. Games lore what? lol dont care about that.(...) gonna do new dungeons and stuff. cool loot they say(...) ppl dont bother to go do old dungeons now(...)know a site with list of the new dungeon loot?(...)hey been here all day im at lvl 6 in the fotm dungeon :)(...)im bored gonna log. playing a bit in ---- now (...)

    Me: "sigh"

    So this guy knows nothing of the games lore. He barely does any WvW or SPvP. He grinded the same dungeon over and over until he got his set and doesnt want to do the others because its "the same". He barely has the patience to stop at a given spot an admire the artwork, he doesnt listen to the games soundtrack. He rushes the game pace, devours 20% of the content and says "theres nothing to do". So he now devours the FotMs dungeons, grinding it away, moaning about the drops, ignorant to everything that this game has to offer, and its in the hands of people like this that i have to bow to in order to get a populated game???

    I even commented that i was worried about this kind of progression creating ghost areas and dungeons, as it happens in every game with vertical progression, and the reply had words like "gear score", "LFG Queue system" yeah so players can sit their behinds all day in Lions Arch and Queue for every content in the game....what is going on??

    So, the hero "manifesto" has its hands full. And it is not looking good.

    Lets remind all of the "manifestos" powers and abilities. He does not have adamantium claws but he has:

    “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1” – M. O’Brien

    “We just don’t want players to grind in GW2” – C. Johanson

    “The most important thing in any game should be the player” – R. Soesbee

    “Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
    - Mike Obrien, President of Anet

    “We don’t need to make gear treadmills”
    Colin Johanson on how ArenaNet measures success.

    Can it be enough to destroy the ignorance of foul creatures and deeds?

    Where you fail is thinking that your conversation with an imaginary person means you know anything. The large population that has left the game literally has done everything, save maybe a Legendary weapon, which is the biggest grind I've ever seen in a game just for something that looks pretty. You're either extremely casual, or a new player. It's obvious to anyone that's already utterly dominated GW2, most of us in less than the first two months.

  • AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,538Moderator Uncommon

    This is seemingly trying to discuss something that is already being discussed in a few places, except in a baiting, melodramatic sort of way.

    Try here: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/369450/Has-the-mass-exodus-begun-for-GW2.html or the "stronger armor" thread.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

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