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What would happen if a AAA sandbox mmo be released?

There is a poll.

In my opinion, the second alternative is more likely to occur because the following motives: players that like themepark with single-player like content, with instant gratifications, without any risks or loses, in general "consume" the pve content provided by the developers and when that content ends (what is almost inevitable), they DONT obtain fun from the player enviroment allowed by the game itself, but asks for more and more single-player like pve content.

This make more likely they abandon their themeparks (temporaly or permanent) and "invade" the AAA sandbox, without the necessary change in behavior and mentality needed to play a sandbox and handle its enviroment (Ex: social interactions and skills, training self defense and being vigilant and smart, actively dodging dangers, tolerate and understand losses and frustrations, to have a better vision of the whole, less laziness, etc) . This create the perfect situation to little annoyances  in the game (thing that they unknows) and they start whining asking for changes that let their enviroment and gameplay less risky and more "self-centered", what, if made, gradually can disfigure the mmo and make it loses its "sandboxiness".

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

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Comments

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Is this even a question?

    See: The last 100 releases.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    I could finaly ignore all the Konsole Kiddies trying to destroy my mmo experience with their single player [mod edit]
  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member
    Do you mean a sandbox like A Tale in the Desert, or more like Darkfall?  Or maybe more of a sandthemeboxpark like Vanguard or Fallen Earth?

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Vhaln
    Do you mean a sandbox like A Tale in the Desert, or more like Darkfall?  Or maybe more of a sandthemeboxpark like Vanguard or Fallen Earth?

    Or more of the "both of those answers are right"?  Or, at least, not mutually exclusive.

    Seems to be a cleverly constructed "which half of the gamers do I want to rip" troll.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • QSatuQSatu WarsawPosts: 1,735Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vhaln
    Do you mean a sandbox like A Tale in the Desert, or more like Darkfall?  Or maybe more of a sandthemeboxpark like Vanguard or Fallen Earth?

    qft

    half of this forum would say it sucks b/c it's not a true sandbox without feature x. And then they would start complaining how no one understands their needs.

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,536Member Uncommon

    What would happen if a AAA sandbox mmo be released?

     

     

     

    It would fold quicker then a spanish soccer player and then live out it's life in obscurity with a stable but tiny playerbase of rabid fans.

     

    A bit like Eve... but smaller.

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYPosts: 911Member Uncommon

    The same thing when a themepark MMO comes out

     

    "this release sucks, worst release of any MMO ever"

    "wow, they lied about x feature and y feature sucks!"

    "why is the game so buggy?"

    "so and so MMO has way more content, why play this at all?"

    "if you can make a better MMO, do it yourself n00b" (this one is my favorite, its hilarious)

    "why is all sandbox MMOs focused on deathmatch PvP?"

    "why is this sandbox MMO focused so much on PvE? carebears trololol" (mostly relates to Ryzom, since its the only PvE sandbox MMO)

    "this MMO sucks. Way overhyped."

    "you are just haters, all of you are trolls! ALL OF YOU!"

    "if you dont like it, leave" (and then everyone leaves and the MMO dies)

     

    I think I got all the major ones that would relate to a sandbox MMO...it doesn't matter if it is a themepark or sandbox, the sceanario will be the same

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  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,927Member Uncommon
    I think it would be unrecognizable as a sandbox within a year.  Eventually it would become an endgame oriented gear grinder.

    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member

    As long as people limit themselves to so-called "AAA" games, they will continue to add to the problem of mass market consumer gaming: make a game that will sell the most boxes by appealing to the broadest audience possible.  Sanboxes are niche games that will sell fewer boxes, but can and have the potential for a much more dedicated long-term fanbase.  

    EvE is considered successful with it's whopping 300k subs.  If a AAA game had 300k subs, it would be on its way out of business.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,784Member Uncommon
    Same as has happened in the past:  a large fraction of the players who say they want an AAA sandbox would insist that it wasn't AAA.  Another large fraction would insist that it wasn't a sandbox.  Both groups would promptly resume complaining about the lack of AAA sandboxes.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Same as has happened in the past:  a large fraction of the players who say they want an AAA sandbox would insist that it wasn't AAA.  Another large fraction would insist that it wasn't a sandbox.  Both groups would promptly resume complaining about the lack of AAA sandboxes.

    lol, you have been reading this forum too long, Q.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,179Member Uncommon

    Bunch of people would flock to it based on AAA-level hype.

    1% of the players would be utter asshats (because it's a sandbox and they can do whatever they want), making the game inhospitable for 99%. 94% leave - citing the game as either too hard, lacking focus, poor story, or just don't get the point. 1% continues being asshats, and the other 5% log on occasionally just so they can keep the "street cred" of saying they play.

  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by Vhaln
    Do you mean a sandbox like A Tale in the Desert, or more like Darkfall?  Or maybe more of a sandthemeboxpark like Vanguard or Fallen Earth?

    Any mmo that isn't only a single-player game with others people running around can be used as example, but i think more specifically in a mmo like UO.

     

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by tawess

    What would happen if a AAA sandbox mmo be released?

     

     

     

    It would fold quicker then a spanish soccer player and then live out it's life in obscurity with a stable but tiny playerbase of rabid fans.

     

    A bit like Eve... but smaller.

    I sincerely doubt this very much. UO was a succesfull mmo and still today is active, losing only to graphically updated mmos that came after 1997.

     

     

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Originally posted by tawess

    What would happen if a AAA sandbox mmo be released?

     

     

     

    It would fold quicker then a spanish soccer player and then live out it's life in obscurity with a stable but tiny playerbase of rabid fans.

     

    A bit like Eve... but smaller.

    I sincerely doubt this very much. UO was a succesfull mmo and still today is active, losing only to graphically updated mmos that came after 1997.

     

     

    What is considered the definition of "active" in MMO terms? Not shut down? 100 poeple? I'd say that qualifies as "live out it's life in obscurity with a stable but tiny playerbase of rabid fans." 

  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by Roxtarr

    Sanboxes are niche games that will sell fewer boxes, but can and have the potential for a much more dedicated long-term fanbase.

    I dont think that sandboxes are niche, i think that indie mmos are niche. A polished AAA sandbox would do much success.

     

     

    EvE is considered successful with it's whopping 300k subs.  If a AAA game had 300k subs, it would be on its way out of business.

    EvE ia almost perfect, but is not everyone that like their tematics and animations, and the game itself was not a big budget made by a big company.

    If there would a game like EvE with a fantasy tematic, certainly would do more success.

     

     

     

     

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Originally posted by tawess

    What would happen if a AAA sandbox mmo be released?

     

     

     

    It would fold quicker then a spanish soccer player and then live out it's life in obscurity with a stable but tiny playerbase of rabid fans.

     

    A bit like Eve... but smaller.

    I sincerely doubt this very much. UO was a succesfull mmo and still today is active, losing only to graphically updated mmos that came after 1997.

     

     

    What is considered the definition of "active" in MMO terms? Not shut down? 100 poeple? I'd say that qualifies as "live out it's life in obscurity with a stable but tiny playerbase of rabid fans." 

    This mmo is from 1997 with a very very outdated graphic (isometric view) and still more with some "carebearization" (Trammel patch). Give a discount! :D

     

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Same as has happened in the past:  a large fraction of the players who say they want an AAA sandbox would insist that it wasn't AAA.  Another large fraction would insist that it wasn't a sandbox.  Both groups would promptly resume complaining about the lack of AAA sandboxes.

    LoL, very true. :D

    But you could cite a AAA mmo released in the last 10 years that can be considered sandbox?

     

     

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • DerrosDerros Posts: 1,077Member Uncommon
    The same thing that happens every time Pinky, Try to take over the......wait no, people will just moan and groan about bugs, balance, mechanics, grinds, pvp, endgame, queues, dead servers,, you know the usual.
  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by Ridelynn

    Bunch of people would flock to it based on AAA-level hype.

    1% of the players would be utter asshats (because it's a sandbox and they can do whatever they want), making the game inhospitable for 99%.

    Very hard to happen, because 1% of the players never will have the power to "own" all the rest, still more if the majority of the playerbase is not finicky players came from themepark mmos with their "little girl" mentality and attitude. And nobody in any mmorpg have this freedom, because his actions produce consequences from others players or the game itself.

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • bishboshbishbosh SydneyPosts: 388Member
    i dont think themepark players would dislike a well made sandbox. most people dont know what they like until you show it to them. the industry just likes to play safe and hence keeps pumping out themeparks because WoW. 
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,784Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Same as has happened in the past:  a large fraction of the players who say they want an AAA sandbox would insist that it wasn't AAA.  Another large fraction would insist that it wasn't a sandbox.  Both groups would promptly resume complaining about the lack of AAA sandboxes.

    LoL, very true. :D

    But you could cite a AAA mmo released in the last 10 years that can be considered sandbox?

    Uncharted Waters Online

  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Same as has happened in the past:  a large fraction of the players who say they want an AAA sandbox would insist that it wasn't AAA.  Another large fraction would insist that it wasn't a sandbox.  Both groups would promptly resume complaining about the lack of AAA sandboxes.

    LoL, very true. :D

    But you could cite a AAA mmo released in the last 10 years that can be considered sandbox?

    Uncharted Waters Online

    Uncharted Waters is a F2P/P2W game that wasn't even done by a AAA  MMO studio... How exactly is it AAA again?

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon

    "Oh god this and that doesnt it work exactly like game X. Its broken X  million player in game X cant be wrong. Omg failed game X clone. Why cant they just stop making game X clones. They will never come close to the greatness of game X. Failed game X killer! Why cant they make something new that doesnt try to work excactly like game X but fails at it. Obviously because the only saw my game X and thought hey we want to do that to. I dont care if they made MMOs before game X and game X copied more from them than they did from game X. Obviously they tried to clone game X, look that map it looks exactly like game Y which game X bluntly ripped off and I could go on but wont, therfore your game is a clone of game X! What sandbox? This is just game X minues feature A, B , C and D and zerg and anything bad I can think of! Why would a want to play game X with less great game X stuff and more anoying stuff game X doesnt have. Oh god game X this oh god game X that .

    even if they didnt try or have any clue about sandbox game Z.

    Only louder and more obessive if they do.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,784Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Same as has happened in the past:  a large fraction of the players who say they want an AAA sandbox would insist that it wasn't AAA.  Another large fraction would insist that it wasn't a sandbox.  Both groups would promptly resume complaining about the lack of AAA sandboxes.

    LoL, very true. :D

    But you could cite a AAA mmo released in the last 10 years that can be considered sandbox?

    Uncharted Waters Online

    Uncharted Waters is a F2P/P2W game that wasn't even done by a AAA  MMO studio... How exactly is it AAA again?

    So if F2P means a game isn't AAA, then that means SWTOR, LOTRO, Vanguard, EQ2, CO, STO, Aion, and quite a few others aren't AAA.  It's actually a subscription game in Japan, but the publisher that handles the English language version seems to think everything should be F2P.

    As for the studio, Tecmo-Koei has about 30 years of game design experience (on both the Tecmo and Koei parts, if you go back to before the merger) and gets several hundred million dollars in annual revenue.  That certainly makes them smaller than EA, Blizzard, and NCsoft.  Can you think of any other studios that have made at least one MMO and are larger than that?

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