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Why is Everyone who purchased the game, so upset with FTP?

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  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Well, everyone who purchased the game isn't upset at the F2P of the game. Some of us are pretty OK with getting free character story content.

    I think some people just don't like F2P and some people feel like they are persecuted by game developers and F2P is one of the tools used to persecute them.

    F2P in SWTOR only gets you 2 char slots, and can not even buy more slots, so can not get more story

    The only way to get more than 2 character slots is to sub, which makes F2P worthless.

    It is not worth playing the game as F2P until you can at least unlock more slots. It would also be good for subbers to unlock 4 more slots too.

    SWTORs F2P is the stupidest F2P of them all

  • SigilaeaSigilaea northport, ALPosts: 317Member
    Originally posted by jimmydatwin

    I don't understand the sense of entitlement.  You bought the game knowing that you could play the game as is for $15/month.  You still can.  Your original terms haven't changed, you have just been offered a limited alternative for free.  Why is that a bad thing?  You get prefered status for your previous investment(as does anyone else who spends money/subs in the future so they are not taking that away from you).

    My questions is this: If you ignore the FTP option that wasnt available a week ago, what has changed from the day you decided this game was worth buying?

    If the only thing that changed is that the game isn't worth a sub fee to you anymore, then think of this: I have a collection of about 25 MMO's that I have bought and don't play anymore.  Also add to that the hundreds of other games that I have bought at full price over the past 20 years and don't play anymore and I think we can say that games aren't meant to play forever (I currently play about 5 games).  I feel that out of all those games that I may have made a bad purchase on maybe 20-40 (roughly 15% I'd say) and you couldn't pay me to play those games now, let alone get me to play for free.

    I haven't played SWTOR, but may give it a shot at some point now that it is FTP.  Just curious as to whether or not I am missing something when I see recent forum posts are always littered with posts about how "done wrong" people who purchased this game are with the FTP transition.

     

     

    To answer the question in your title:

     

    Most of them are not upset about the F2p part. They are pissed that the game was poorly developed at release, and, instead of spending their resources to polish/finish the game, they removed even more of the existing game and now charge money to get it back.

     

    Since you have not played the game yet, I will offer my opinion on the state of the game ( I bought it at release). The game did a decent job with the personal story quests, which was the majority of what they showcased before launch. However, there were a significant amount of other problems that caused the mass exodus out the door. I will list the problems I had with it below but since it is my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

    1. Environment is lifeless and restricted. If you decide to go exploring,there isn't many places you can go that is not the road to the next levelling area. Not a lot of ceatures, and the NPCs usually just stand still and wait for you to attack them. There aren't many extra sounds either. If you are an explorer typem stay away from this  game because there is only just enough content surrounding your feet to get you to the next zone.

     

    3. Questing is very linear, and there isn't much reason to return to most zones on a particular toon, once you levelled up. Basically, you consume content in the usual ways in an area and then you are sent "down the road" to the next zone. Rinse and repeat. You will sometimes be sent to another world for a particular level range but the pattern is still the same.

     

    4. Graphics engine is poor by modern standards. I didn't mind the graphics too much, once I learned how to tweak the ini files to get better performance, but doing so really throttled my high-end machine. And the default settings were just too old for me.

     

    5. Pvp was eSport that had its own grind. The classes were not balanced at launch (which is always a tough one to get right).

     

    6. Too many bugs to mention here. I hate to be general but there were so many and in so many areas that the subject would need its own post. 

     

    7. No replayability with a toon once it reached max level. Unless you like random arenas for pvp gear grindign, or maybe hunting the datacrons, the only thing left to do is start over with a new toon. That got boring quick because even though you get a new story, it's still int he same zones.

     

    I've only mentioned the negative here for you, and to be fair, there are some positives. But I wanted you to see what I call the "worse case" so you can understand why people are upset that BW decided on a restrictive p2p scheme instead of fixing the issues listed.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Well, everyone who purchased the game isn't upset at the F2P of the game. Some of us are pretty OK with getting free character story content.

    I think some people just don't like F2P and some people feel like they are persecuted by game developers and F2P is one of the tools used to persecute them.

    F2P in SWTOR only gets you 2 char slots, and can not even buy more slots, so can not get more story

    The only way to get more than 2 character slots is to sub, which makes F2P worthless.

    It is not worth playing the game as F2P until you can at least unlock more slots. It would also be good for subbers to unlock 4 more slots too.

    SWTORs F2P is the stupidest F2P of them all

    Yep that is where EA lost me for good.  Only 2 character slots, I am like wth.  This model is not going to bring players into the folks it is going to chase them off. I looked at torstatus net and only seen an uptake of .45 today.  

    Yep I think they made some bad mistakes with this pay to play model, I want even call it free, other than to log in on 2 characters. 

  • negativf4kknegativf4kk WorthingPosts: 377Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sigilaea
    Originally posted by jimmydatwin

    I don't understand the sense of entitlement.  You bought the game knowing that you could play the game as is for $15/month.  You still can.  Your original terms haven't changed, you have just been offered a limited alternative for free.  Why is that a bad thing?  You get prefered status for your previous investment(as does anyone else who spends money/subs in the future so they are not taking that away from you).

    My questions is this: If you ignore the FTP option that wasnt available a week ago, what has changed from the day you decided this game was worth buying?

    If the only thing that changed is that the game isn't worth a sub fee to you anymore, then think of this: I have a collection of about 25 MMO's that I have bought and don't play anymore.  Also add to that the hundreds of other games that I have bought at full price over the past 20 years and don't play anymore and I think we can say that games aren't meant to play forever (I currently play about 5 games).  I feel that out of all those games that I may have made a bad purchase on maybe 20-40 (roughly 15% I'd say) and you couldn't pay me to play those games now, let alone get me to play for free.

    I haven't played SWTOR, but may give it a shot at some point now that it is FTP.  Just curious as to whether or not I am missing something when I see recent forum posts are always littered with posts about how "done wrong" people who purchased this game are with the FTP transition.

     

     

    To answer the question in your title:

     

     

    5. Pvp was eSport that had its own grind. The classes were not balanced at launch (which is always a tough one to get right).

     

     

    That was my reason to quit. Devs had no idea about the way they made the classes. The way they wanted to progress them. And even general idea of pvp, from their point of view is CC CC AND MORE CC. 

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  • stratasaurusstratasaurus Seattle, WAPosts: 220Member

    I was playing SWTOR when the announcement was released and most of the people on my server and in my guild did not have as much as a problem with feeling entitled as much as they just feel f2p brings in lower class players and degrades the community of the game as well as leads to crappier development of material.  Personally i do not agree as the community and development of the game were pretty much at a low point anyways.

    On a second point I really get sick of people saying SWTOR was a single player game.  Yes you can say it is a crappy MMO but it has massive amounts of multiple player elements put in even if not done perfectly.  Every single zone has multiple player quests and there is very active pvp from level 10 on upwards.  There is lots of flashpoints and raids(Operations) so to say it is a single player game with MMO elements is just stupid.  It has every MMO element of any other MMO I doubt there are very many that have more.  Don't like the game just say it sucks as a MMO don't say it isn't a MMO.

  • negativf4kknegativf4kk WorthingPosts: 377Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by stratasaurus

    I was playing SWTOR when the announcement was released and most of the people on my server and in my guild did not have as much as a problem with feeling entitled as much as they just feel f2p brings in lower class players and degrades the community of the game as well as leads to crappier development of material.  Personally i do not agree as the community and development of the game were pretty much at a low point anyways.

    On a second point I really get sick of people saying SWTOR was a single player game.  Yes you can say it is a crappy MMO but it has massive amounts of multiple player elements put in even if not done perfectly.  Every single zone has multiple player quests and there is very active pvp from level 10 on upwards.  There is lots of flashpoints and raids(Operations) so to say it is a single player game with MMO elements is just stupid.  It has every MMO element of any other MMO I doubt there are very many that have more.  Don't like the game just say it sucks as a MMO don't say it isn't a MMO.

    Lets look at pvp. End game pvp noexistent.Class balance - same. From 1-49 lvl pvp evolves around 1 wz, the one u get most often, that one that u most often quite cause it takes longest to loose.

    lets get to second point. U can always go back to any Heroics, which makes awards worthless. Any 50+ can run with u and still get the drop.

    And the main. Wait for it.

     It`s coming.

    Legacy system.

    So it emcourages u to  run lots of chars at the same time. Which means crafting is dead. Which means economy - dead. Any need of interacting with other players - dead.

    Thats looks like nice single-player game.With some co-op elements.

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  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by stratasaurus

    I was playing SWTOR when the announcement was released and most of the people on my server and in my guild did not have as much as a problem with feeling entitled as much as they just feel f2p brings in lower class players and degrades the community of the game as well as leads to crappier development of material.  Personally i do not agree as the community and development of the game were pretty much at a low point anyways.

    On a second point I really get sick of people saying SWTOR was a single player game.  Yes you can say it is a crappy MMO but it has massive amounts of multiple player elements put in even if not done perfectly.  Every single zone has multiple player quests and there is very active pvp from level 10 on upwards.  There is lots of flashpoints and raids(Operations) so to say it is a single player game with MMO elements is just stupid.  It has every MMO element of any other MMO I doubt there are very many that have more.  Don't like the game just say it sucks as a MMO don't say it isn't a MMO.

    It's multiplayer, it's online .. but it's not massively.  Too much instancing.

     

    So to your claim that SWTOR is a true MMO .. well, Tattoine, the size of 40% of a WoW continent can only handle a couple hundred players before it gets instanced?  This is not massively.  The statistic is derived from developer comments about the scope of each planet, including Tatooine.

     

    Big planets feel empty because of this.

     

    I'd give SWTOR one "M" .. it's a Multiplayer Online game.   Roleplaying might exist, but only in small groups, because the engine can't handle more than a dozen in one area at the same time.  No chattbubbles, no sitting, no environment?  Not much roleplay here.

     

    I'd say the music department should get promotions, and the game architects & designers should get the boot.  But EA already canned everyone, so it doesn't matter much now.

    Except Andryah, former musician. Now she defends EA on the official forums, and pollutes peoples minds with misinformation and propaganda.  Bravo, EA.  Bravo.

     

    Then again, she is only one that people know about.  The others are more cleverly hidden.

     

     

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • VyethVyeth Fayetteville, NCPosts: 1,459Member

    When they announced it, I felt that it could have been the start of something bigger.. A resolution to the games shortcommings within the community.. But the restrictions.. These are not your average restrictions.. I see it as blatant nickel and diming, and I for one have no problems with F2P games, cash shops or microtransactions at all.. But SWTOR has taken it to another level.. But I suppose they were basically saying to everyone that it is cheaper to just sub, instead of trying to buy the game features in parts..

    The way I think it should have ended up looking is that to unlock all the games subscription features in parts should cost little (IF ANY) more than 15 dollars or the normal sub fee.. But why couldn't they say "hey, okay a sub is 15 bucks, how can we break that down into multiple feature blocks that they could pay for separately should they choose to?"

    Trying to force a sub with the kind of pricing present currently, is a little silly imo right now..

    image

  • negativf4kknegativf4kk WorthingPosts: 377Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vyeth

    When they announced it, I felt that it could have been the start of something bigger.. A resolution to the games shortcommings within the community.. But the restrictions.. These are not your average restrictions.. I see it as blatant nickel and diming, and I for one have no problems with F2P games, cash shops or microtransactions at all.. But SWTOR has taken it to another level.. But I suppose they were basically saying to everyone that it is cheaper to just sub, instead of trying to buy the game features in parts..

    The way I think it should have ended up looking is that to unlock all the games subscription features in parts should cost little (IF ANY) more than 15 dollars or the normal sub fee.. But why couldn't they say "hey, okay a sub is 15 bucks, how can we break that down into multiple feature blocks that they could pay for separately should they choose to?"

    Trying to force a sub with the kind of pricing present currently, is a little silly imo right now..

    +1

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  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Posts: 1,180Member Uncommon
    im glad its free to play, now all the people who didnt buy the game can see for themselves how horrible this game really is.
  • CorthalaCorthala LagosPosts: 283Member Uncommon
    Wouldnt return to the game even if they paid me.

    "you are like the world revenge on sarcasm, you know that?"

    One of those great lines from The Secret World

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by lizardbones Well, everyone who purchased the game isn't upset at the F2P of the game. Some of us are pretty OK with getting free character story content. I think some people just don't like F2P and some people feel like they are persecuted by game developers and F2P is one of the tools used to persecute them.
    F2P in SWTOR only gets you 2 char slots, and can not even buy more slots, so can not get more story

    The only way to get more than 2 character slots is to sub, which makes F2P worthless.

    It is not worth playing the game as F2P until you can at least unlock more slots. It would also be good for subbers to unlock 4 more slots too.

    SWTORs F2P is the stupidest F2P of them all




    It's Free. Anything you get is something for nothing.

    The point isn't to give players endless fun for nothing. The point is to get players to spend money. SWToR's F2P shop gives the players lots of options on what they're going to buy. One time unlocks or ongoing subscription for everything.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • LachyFTWLachyFTW Miami, FLPosts: 181Member Uncommon
    The game is one step closer to being shut down with the release of F2P, cannot wait.
  • koboldfodderkoboldfodder Danbury, DEPosts: 390Member Uncommon

    Someone posted this, might be in this thread or another SWTOR thread.

     

    The game was a spectacular failure when it was subscription based.  How can it succeed when all F2P does is chop up the game that failed into smaller segments..  Why would any player want to play a chopped up version of a failed game.  Makes no sense.

    F2P can work, but the game has to have some type of success to it otherwise it does not work.  The problem people have with SWTOR is that its a horrible MMO.  Making it F2P does not change the fact that it is a horrible MMO.

     

     

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LachyFTW
    The game is one step closer to being shut down with the release of F2P, cannot wait.

    truth was spoken.

     

    today's market is too competitive to release crap regardless of payment method. it wasnt the15/mo it was the stuff after the login screen.

     

    it's like 1910s russia. people are in mass starvation. they're given...the right to vote. nobody cares, they assasinated the czar family a couple years later.

    image

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member

    Jimmy, of those 25 MMO's has any of them gone F2P? If so, then you know how F2P models work, and you'll be shocked at SWTOR's F2P- it's in a league of its own and you won't like it for very long.


    SWTOR was a single player centric game, the mass complaint is that it's not worth a sub fee after the first 1-2 months and that's why EA said the most complained feedback is the sub and they took it the wrong way, if you're enjoying the game, you'd be subbed anyways.


    The problem with this is:

    - you have to sub to redeem the "awarded" cartel coins that you earned from the amount of monthly subs you paid.
    - pay cartel coins to: hide helmet slot, add 2-4 more toolbar rows, access guild bank, access your bank, equip purple gear.
    - pay cartel coins to enter operations (raid)
    - buy armor/weapons that has the same skins as the ones you see on the GTN but with different colors and little graphics effects


    ... and so on

    image
    image

  • wordizwordiz Eugene, ORPosts: 464Member

    The single skillbar is dumb. They marketed it as if someone could download the game just to play to 50 and treat it like a KOTOR 3, which is basically all the game was. However, you can't do much with a single skillbar. Like most F2P titles, it's cheaper to just sub if you really like the game anyways, but you'll end up spending way more on SWTOR than most other F2P titles. There's really no point to them even doing a F2P except for trying to rake in whatever they can before the game dies for good.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,614Member Uncommon
      Well I for one am having great fun revisiting TOR, and its F2P,  as someone who subd before, I get 4 character slots, more money, bigger inventory space and basically all the things I need. It is like putting on those old comfortable slippers, they fit perfectly and feel great to walk around in.  Thank you EA for getting me back to the fun of playing the bad guy with all the wonderfull explosions and animations , not to mention production and story.
  • RyukanRyukan Mason, MIPosts: 706Member Uncommon
    What, I should be happy with a crappy F2P model and the fact that the $50 I spent on the game is worthless less than a year later?
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Ryukan
    What, I should be happy with a crappy F2P model and the fact that the $50 I spent on the game is worthless less than a year later?

    The F2P conversion has nothing to do with the $50 you spent. If the F2P conversion did not happen, your $50 would have purchased you the exact same amount of stuff.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Ryukan
    What, I should be happy with a crappy F2P model and the fact that the $50 I spent on the game is worthless less than a year later?


    The F2P conversion has nothing to do with the $50 you spent. If the F2P conversion did not happen, your $50 would have purchased you the exact same amount of stuff.

     

    That you have to resubscribe to to get.............................

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Kitchener, ONPosts: 1,978Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kamikazego
    Originally posted by jimmydatwin

    I don't understand the sense of entitlement.  You bought the game knowing that you could play the game as is for $15/month.  You still can.  Your original terms haven't changed, you have just been offered a limited alternative for free.  Why is that a bad thing?  You get prefered status for your previous investment(as does anyone else who spends money/subs in the future so they are not taking that away from you).

    My questions is this: If you ignore the FTP option that wasnt available a week ago, what has changed from the day you decided this game was worth buying?

    If the only thing that changed is that the game isn't worth a sub fee to you anymore, then think of this: I have a collection of about 25 MMO's that I have bought and don't play anymore.  Also add to that the hundreds of other games that I have bought at full price over the past 20 years and don't play anymore and I think we can say that games aren't meant to play forever (I currently play about 5 games).  I feel that out of all those games that I may have made a bad purchase on maybe 20-40 (roughly 15% I'd say) and you couldn't pay me to play those games now, let alone get me to play for free.

    I haven't played SWTOR, but may give it a shot at some point now that it is FTP.  Just curious as to whether or not I am missing something when I see recent forum posts are always littered with posts about how "done wrong" people who purchased this game are with the FTP transition.

     

     

    I know. This boggles my mind too.  Not to mention that you get extra cartel coins (in-game store currency) for every month that you subscribed before F2P...

    Yeah it is all about optics and perception.

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  • iceashiceash NORWICHPosts: 21Member

    Ok i left SWTOR after a couple of months from launch, i enjoyed the sith sorcerer story but the content just didn't warrant me paying for each month.

    Since then there have been several patches released and it went F2P, i patched everything up, got into game expecting some restrictions, where i could have a good try and confirm that i would subscribe, ( was planning on it to allow me to gain previous cartel coins).

    So i created my new character and entered world, ok you are hit with cartel shop signs on pretty much everything straight away, i like to set up action bars at the start of any mmo rdy for what's to come, +/-  action bars as i hit top lvl, mmmm only allowed 2, Costume head slot have to pay to unlock, not looking good, ok i have my founders title in the post mmmmm have to pay to unlock.

    At this point not interested i have my character to lvl2 as i just don't have the will to continue knowing i am going to have to pay for everything unless i sub straight away, which after the reasons for leaving i didn't want to do straight away.

    I won't take SWTOR  off my PC, why i hear you ask if you aren't going to be playing, well my 4 year old daughter likes Starwars and she can run around the start area to her hearts content swinging the start blade and she at least dosn't have to concern herself with the cash shop.

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member

    It seems like they used the Turbine model for FTP, i.e. it's setup to encourage you to sub as it's a better deal and I guess that's the way, ultimately if it's success, people will take that option.

    As it stands the FTP option is horribly restrictive but thats the point, your suppose to be wowed by the game by playing for free and then want to sub to it to gain access to everything. I have the feeling that some people don't get that, or they just think their, 'owed', something because it's not SWG2, EA are involved, etc etc.

    I mean theres a thread at the moment critising how the legacy system is redundant because you can buy the race unlocks for cartel points. It also claims the legacy system is the main feature of the entire game.  Both of these claims are utter bollocks if your a subscriber, which is what this system is set out to make you. You can still earn perks/rewards from the legacy system and claim the unlocks the other way if you want. The legacy system isn't a real draw anyway.  If your on the fence about this game are you really going to grind the credits needed for speeder piloting at lv10? Probably not.

    Ultimately you have to understand there are people on these forums who just hate the game and the company and want it dead.  You only have to see the first few responses, (which don't even address you questions), for proof of that and the numerous threads on these forums.  This place is a refugee for old SWG vets who love nostagila based fantasies about their favortite game.  A lot of those people hate EA and Bioware by extension so treat anything produced by them as a zombie that needs headshotting.

    Therefore expecting better from people is just not worth it.  I gave up some time ago, and yes I do still comment on the game and feel strongly that Bioware have made mistakes with this title.  Getting anything like a realistic debate on here about TOR is just not going to be doable when certain people won't let go of their, 'baggage'.

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  • GrimmxGrimmx SandefjordPosts: 219Member

    I just noticed this thread so ill chime in. I just tried reopening my account to see whats up with FTP in SWTOR. 

    I had a lvl 40 i logged in on.

    First i read that i get a 350k cash roof ?. Then i ask myself why i only have 2 quick bars? 2 Quick bars on a lvl 40 char made me instantly go WTF?

    So the obvious answer to this is that i have to spend about 4 euro from the getgo.

    I have no problem paying a subscribtion, what i do have a problem with is the feeling i get blackmailed into it in a game thats supposedly " ftp ".

    I do understand that "ftp" games need to earn money, im just pointing out that i think they have been stupid going about it in this way. Most people that return to the game will put it away again when you are instantly forced to use money.

    As it stands now i didnt even set up my char to try it out again because i knew i needed to use my credit card and that wasnt what i wanted when i logged in. I was there for a look.

    To be honest i think GW2 will get more people because of this. Its all about getting people dedicated before squeezing cash out of their pockets. As it is right now its just annoying.

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