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We dont want games - we want worlds.

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  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by JimmyYO
    Couldn't agree with this thread more. The few that try to make an actual world are so buggy and non-immersive it's embarrasing.

    I understand why people want 'worlds' but they are the minority.

    Here's a question, which 'world' MMO do you play and support?

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • zekeofevzekeofev Mesa, AZPosts: 233Member
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by JimmyYO
    Couldn't agree with this thread more. The few that try to make an actual world are so buggy and non-immersive it's embarrasing.

    I understand why people want 'worlds' but they are the minority.

    Here's a question, which 'world' MMO do you play and support?

     

    How can you be so sure that "they are the minority".  Done correctly I think it could be a big hit.

     

    Currently? None. In the past I have played SWG until just after the NGE and AC->AC2. I played Vanguard a little bit as well.

     

     

    One of my major definitions of worlds are the ability to do something non combat related to progress (even if it is horizontal or progression in another area). I absolutely loved creature handling or dancer/musician in SWG as well as crafting in AC.

     

    I enjoyed SWG and AC for long periods of time much longer then any other game I have played and I miss that longevity in my MMOs. I came for the world of SWG and I stayed for the creative and different gameplay yet today we get formulaic encounters and on rails play instead of rewarding exploration.

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    I honestly do not understand why anyone would want a smaller world. Just because there is a large world and 100 features, doesnt mean you have to take part in them. But to not have the choice, or to be limited in every way........ you people want and like that? I mean come on, majority of the reasons for small world is just down right sad.

    So what if a game has housing....dont like it dont use one.

    Crafting you dont like.......... dont craft

    Exploration you dont want to spend 5 minutes looking at cool things?......... dont

    Dont like social aspect? Dont talk to anyone lol.

     

    I mean seriously. You would rather have a game already lacking content and then have it so easy you can hit end game in 3 days and cry on the forums? This is your idea of fun?

    Sandboxes and large world are making a huge come back. 4 of the top 8-10 games listed here to be released are sandboxes with huge open worlds. Many of the asian companies are switching over to sandbox because themeparks have been raped 1000 times by you linear people.

    I like the option, i like having the choice if i want to pvp today or craft, run by the lake to fish, or climb a mountain to look at the valley below. I like wide open worlds with all the features to keep me content. Not wait around for a release of more raids and warzone to keep me occupied lol. You are forced into pvp and one line moving forward with these types of games. There is nothing else to do but dailies, raids, and pvp. Why i like sandboxes, i can do 100 things while you are limited to 3 lol.

     

    And remember: PLAYER CONTENT> EVERYTHING ELSE. Lot of creative people out there, and most fun i have had playing a mmo came from the community not a dev team trying to make garbage updates to keep their players happy.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by zekeofev
    Originally posted by jpnz
     

    I understand why people want 'worlds' but they are the minority.

    Here's a question, which 'world' MMO do you play and support?

     

    How can you be so sure that "they are the minority".  Done correctly I think it could be a big hit.

     /snip

    You think it could be a 'big hit'.

    Would you invest millions of dollars into what one person (or just a group of vocal people) thinks could be a 'big hit'?

     

    At the moment, games > world when it comes to $$$ made. That's just fact. So yes, you are the minority.

    Whether you enjoy games or world is irreverent when it comes to that fact.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,171Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by delete5230

    GW2. Why?....That is not an mmo.  It's a game with others around you, bottom line ! 

    a game with many others around you IS a mmo.   What you believe to be a mmo is what Blizzard has been spoonfeeding you for years aka the healer-tank-dps forced grouping, and you fell for it.

     

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • xeniarxeniar Posts: 805Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by zekeofev
    Originally posted by jpnz
     

    I understand why people want 'worlds' but they are the minority.

    Here's a question, which 'world' MMO do you play and support?

     

    How can you be so sure that "they are the minority".  Done correctly I think it could be a big hit.

     /snip

    You think it could be a 'big hit'.

    Would you invest millions of dollars into what one person (or just a group of vocal people) thinks could be a 'big hit'?

     

    At the moment, games > world when it comes to $$$ made. That's just fact. So yes, you are the minority.

    Whether you enjoy games or world is irreverent when it comes to that fact.

    Originally posted by Muke

    Originally posted by delete5230

    GW2. Why?....That is not an mmo.  It's a game with others around you, bottom line ! 

    a game with many others around you IS a mmo.   What you believe to be a mmo is what Blizzard has been spoonfeeding you for years aka the healer-tank-dps forced grouping, and you fell for it.

     

    @  jpnz

    If games are where the bucks are made. hoe come so many are failing and have to revert to a free to play standard? It is not where we should be heading right now. we should head back to sanbox open worlds where you have to think a little instead of just faceroll your keyboard.

    @ Muke

    I disagree with you abit. While an MMO is indeed a game where more people are around you, It is the way how you interact with those people. If you don't really interact you might as well go play a singple player game. NPC's cannot annoy you.

  • Tutu2Tutu2 MelbournePosts: 564Member Uncommon
    If somebody blended Minecraft and Skyrim with at least Skyrim level of graphics I'd never play another game again.
  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by xeniar

     

    @  jpnz

    If games are where the bucks are made. hoe come so many are failing and have to revert to a free to play standard? It is not where we should be heading right now. we should head back to sanbox open worlds where you have to think a little instead of just faceroll your keyboard.

     

    Games going F2P has nothing to do with how 'well' a game is doing.

    Look up DDO / LoTro.

    Both MMOs were one of the first to go F2P and they made 100% more money afterwards.

    What business cares what they get on a subcription model when F2P can get them 100% more revenue?

    Look up every Iphone / Android game ever.

    Look up League of Legends and how Riot is just ROFL-Stomping every game out there including Acti-Blizz's WoW; (in terms of revenue).

    The days of 'F2P -> game is failing' is long long gone.

    It is now 'Why aren't you F2P? What's wrong with your game?'.

     

    Here's a question, which 'world' MMO is F2P? And why aren't they all F2P?

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • xeniarxeniar Posts: 805Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by xeniar

     

    @  jpnz

    If games are where the bucks are made. hoe come so many are failing and have to revert to a free to play standard? It is not where we should be heading right now. we should head back to sanbox open worlds where you have to think a little instead of just faceroll your keyboard.

     

    Games going F2P has nothing to do with how 'well' a game is doing.

    Look up DDO / LoTro.

    Both MMOs were one of the first to go F2P and they made 100% more money afterwards.

    What business cares what they get on a subcription model when F2P can get them 100% more revenue?

    Look up every Iphone / Android game ever.

    Look up League of Legends and how Riot is just ROFL-Stomping every game out there including Acti-Blizz's WoW; (in terms of revenue).

    The days of 'F2P -> game is failing' is long long gone.

    It is now 'Why aren't you F2P? What's wrong with your game?'.

     

    Here's a question, which 'world' MMO is F2P? And why aren't they all F2P?

    The reason a game has more revenue after they go f2p is because people will try it again they will have more players = more income. people dont want to pay mothly they want to pay for what they want and vanity items are wanted by almost evryone. heck i even bought vanity items for cenrtain games. thinking back its really a waste but if your having fun /care

     

    dont compare iphone/android games with mmo's world of diffrence. not evryone is into mmo's but evryone has a smatphone nowadays. 

    But my reason still stands. games go F2P because subs dont give them enough money = fail 

    if what you said is true why issnt WoW not going f2P ? thats because they make more money with subs and they have their small little vanity shop asswell.

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by zekeofev
    Originally posted by jpnz
     

    I understand why people want 'worlds' but they are the minority.

    Here's a question, which 'world' MMO do you play and support?

     

    How can you be so sure that "they are the minority".  Done correctly I think it could be a big hit.

     /snip

    You think it could be a 'big hit'.

    Would you invest millions of dollars into what one person (or just a group of vocal people) thinks could be a 'big hit'?

     

    At the moment, games > world when it comes to $$$ made. That's just fact. So yes, you are the minority.

    Whether you enjoy games or world is irreverent when it comes to that fact.

    Debatable, consider that before the major "streamlining" the playerbase of wow grew by more than a million a year, despite players getting older and quitting all the time, and the devs are even returning to things they have worked for the past 4+ years to eradicate (mostly out-of-raid content), but ofcourse that will only prompt you to say "wow is getting old", wont it? :)

    Flame on!

    :)

  • YaoimanYaoiman Newkama Land, LAPosts: 51Member
    Originally posted by Thane

    if it's soooo easy to "Just add multiplayer" to a game, tell me why there are like 4 or 5 coop shooters max?

     

    what people want is what they pay for. nowadays kids pay for everything enough of their "friends" are playing.

    you wanna know what the real prob is?

     

    having 3k facebook friends you gotta satisfie by playing some game you dont even like.

    back in the "good old days" we just hang out with people we actually knew and liked. THAT changed.

     

     

     

    and to name some examples of the "good old days":

     

    * daoc having active game content (pvp) up to 12 or 1 am. after that, servers were empty (unless you had a ninja relic raid).

    * wow crashing on every 3rd mining try, resulting in you being stuck in that animation till logout or even longer.

    * pings of 500 being normal.

    * mmo servers with like 1 or 2k players MAX (not online at the same time, at all).

     

     

    are you sure that's what you are looking for?? are you REALLY sure you remember that good old times propperly. and not like your first time sex ("damn that was soooooo goood.... and daahaaamn, I was good!")?

     

     

    when i see posts like this one, i usualy just smile, and move on, but since you guys decided to post one of those every 4 days now.... comment be done.

     

     

    maybe people should just stop to claim to know what everyone ELSE wants ("WE WANT WORLD NOT GAMES!!!" << who'S that we? you and your mom?) and try to find out what YOU really want.

    You're wrong, just like your English.

    A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies, the man who never reads lives only one.

    We will always remember your sacrifice, Louisoux!

  • AzaqinAzaqin Willowick, OHPosts: 65Member

    We (and by "we" I mean the part of the gamer community that desires this) say we want worlds with our threads and posts, but we (as a gamer community) inevitably say we don't want worlds with our wallets. Game companies will not produce dynamic world MMOs until we all start BUYING dynamic world MMOS, instead of buying single player RPGs with multiplayer tacked on, multiplayer FPSers, and lameass console ports.

     

    The money is in theme parks, specifically freemium themeparks where you can set up multiple revenue streams through subs, box prices, and cash shops, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see more and more Pay 2 Win cash shops popping up in the future. Blizz has pretty much already done this with Diablo 3, and it's only a matter of time before they port a similar "AH with Real Money" into WoW. 

     

    If we want dynamic worlds, we need to take the money out of theme parks and put it in dynamic worlds. But, unfortunately, the gamer community is so full of Konsole Kiddies that all the industry sees is "WE WANT MORE WOW AND COD!"

     

     

    EDIT: Not that I'm saying either WoW or CoD are bad games at all. Just that this is where the money is.

  • OriousOrious O''Fallon, ILPosts: 548Member

    I know that I do....

     

    I beta test pretty much everything, but i haven't bought an mmo sense...hmmm.... IDK haha.

    image

  • AzaqinAzaqin Willowick, OHPosts: 65Member

    I bought TSW un-tested, and I'm torn about it. On the one hand I payed $40 bucks + $15 in sub fees for 2 months of game time. In that 2 months I played through pretty much everything that looked interesting to me, got to the end of the (then available) content, and un-subbed. I had fun playing it. I liked the game mechanics and the graphics, and I liked the world and lore.

     

    What I didn't like was the fact that it was essentially a single player game. Almost everything in the world except for dungeons was easily soloable, and the skill tree meant that I could alter my character on the fly to deal with any situation. That's a great feature....of a single player game. Which is really what TSW is: a really good single-player game that happens to have other players running around at the same time whom you  occasionally randomly group up with to run a dungeon. 

     

    I got my money's worth, I think. $55 for a game is pretty average now, and I would finish pretty much any game in 2 months, but I don't think it really makes it as a MOG.

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnz

    Games going F2P has nothing to do with how 'well' a game is doing.

    Look up DDO / LoTro.

    Both MMOs were one of the first to go F2P and they made 100% more money afterwards.

    What business cares what they get on a subcription model when F2P can get them 100% more revenue?

    Look up every Iphone / Android game ever.

    Look up League of Legends and how Riot is just ROFL-Stomping every game out there including Acti-Blizz's WoW; (in terms of revenue).

    The days of 'F2P -> game is failing' is long long gone.

    It is now 'Why aren't you F2P? What's wrong with your game?'.

     

    Here's a question, which 'world' MMO is F2P? And why aren't they all F2P?

    How are DDO and LOTRO doing now? Sure they fared quite well after the initial rush that "F2P" conversions experience, but after that, all we've heard about are the high level layoffs from LOTRO. "F2P" conversions are essentially a squeezing of the sponge. There really is no long term future for the big switcheroo. It's all about getting that last rush of revenue from the poisonous disposable gamer demographic.

    You then go on about cellphone games and MOBAs. Ok, bud, but this has nothing to do with mmos. 'Why aren't you F2P? What's wrong with your game?'. It hasn't quite gotten that bad yet, LOL, so don't get carried away with yourself.

    Mmos do not switch from a sub model to "F2P" if they are successful. If you believe that they do, then you'll believe anything.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by Yaoiman
    Originally posted by Thane

    if it's soooo easy to "Just add multiplayer" to a game, tell me why there are like 4 or 5 coop shooters max?

     

    what people want is what they pay for. nowadays kids pay for everything enough of their "friends" are playing.

    you wanna know what the real prob is?

     

    having 3k facebook friends you gotta satisfie by playing some game you dont even like.

    back in the "good old days" we just hang out with people we actually knew and liked. THAT changed.

     

     

     

    and to name some examples of the "good old days":

     

    * daoc having active game content (pvp) up to 12 or 1 am. after that, servers were empty (unless you had a ninja relic raid).

    * wow crashing on every 3rd mining try, resulting in you being stuck in that animation till logout or even longer.

    * pings of 500 being normal.

    * mmo servers with like 1 or 2k players MAX (not online at the same time, at all).

     

     

    are you sure that's what you are looking for?? are you REALLY sure you remember that good old times propperly. and not like your first time sex ("damn that was soooooo goood.... and daahaaamn, I was good!")?

     

     

    when i see posts like this one, i usualy just smile, and move on, but since you guys decided to post one of those every 4 days now.... comment be done.

     

     

    maybe people should just stop to claim to know what everyone ELSE wants ("WE WANT WORLD NOT GAMES!!!" << who'S that we? you and your mom?) and try to find out what YOU really want.

    You're wrong, just like your English.

    Actually, proper way to write it would be.

    You are wrong (.) Just like your english (is).

  • shingoukiehshingoukieh Fayetteville, NCPosts: 125Member

    I think what the op mean is a game like ps3 home...you know where u run around and alot of people are buying stuff etc...

    on top of having mmorpg elements like you can go out and do adventure stuff...so kinda like a social and gaming type thing. Kinda hard to actually put it into words but example skyrim like with mass people and tons of things to do like the real world....

    I would actually like to see hybrid gaming mmorpgs...you know something like the ps3 home for those users...where u go socialize and hang out...ontop of a skyrim like gameplay outside of towns...then a huge world thats seamless and all users on same server...then make it first or 3rd person where u can use staffs and guns (like not autoattack gun usage but actually have to aim and can miss).

    A game where u could play with your kid and go out and do adventures with them or if u have a girlfriend sit around in a super big city and do lil things inside..now if a game could pull that off...it would no longer be a game but a virtual world

  • DouganDouganDouganDougan MAdridPosts: 15Member

    to get inmersion on a game, you need somethings:

     

    Multijob system on a single character (Has no sense to feel inmerse if you have to change character to play diferent")

    A good background Lore and decent Main Missions.

    A good community.

     

    I only found this in FFXI... The new FFXIV seems to have a good Lore with that thing about Bahamut raging over gods and destroying the world. GW2 dont seems bad but too much PvP focus to be immersive enough

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Cecropia
     

    How are DDO and LOTRO doing now? Sure they fared quite well after the initial rush that "F2P" conversions experience, but after that, all we've heard about are the high level layoffs from LOTRO. "F2P" conversions are essentially a squeezing of the sponge. There really is no long term future for the big switcheroo. It's all about getting that last rush of revenue from the poisonous disposable gamer demographic.

    You then go on about cellphone games and MOBAs. Ok, bud, but this has nothing to do with mmos. 'Why aren't you F2P? What's wrong with your game?'. It hasn't quite gotten that bad yet, LOL, so don't get carried away with yourself.

    Mmos do not switch from a sub model to "F2P" if they are successful. If you believe that they do, then you'll believe anything.

    And the biggest 'world' MMO EVE-online had to reduce its workforce by 20% recently so what's your point?

    F2P is just a payment model and this notion that it somehow doesn't work in MMOs is wrong. World of Tanks is a F2P that is again making huge amount of money.

    To bring this back onto topic, professing your love for 'world' MMOs is fine. The reality is that you are the minority.

    A question is then, 'what world MMOs do you support'?

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • sudosudo Tel-AvivPosts: 697Member Uncommon

    Fully agree with OP. 

    Somebody, please give us another Ultima Online. And make it right. Pretty please?

    "Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
    Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
    Hans Margolius

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx North York, ONPosts: 2,360Member Uncommon

    age of wushu really captures that world feel. Everything about it feels like what mmos should be striving for. 

     

    -hybrid sandbox / thempark

    -open world pvp

    -built in bounty, police and jail system

    - player made economy and run economy.

     

    Everything about the game while playing it feels like your character is apart of a living world and not just another number. Hell even when you log your character off he becomes part of the world, hes now the blacksmith, or a peddler or the innkeeper, or the town guard, making money, and experience for you while youre sleeping.

     

    The game has a lot of featuress that should be in other games.

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • percyuspercyus palm coast, FLPosts: 30Member
    The show .//hack anyone?? That's what I imagine as the perfect game!
  • InterestingInteresting Porto AlegrePosts: 950Member

    Their prison simulators are not MMORPGs.

     

    Bring back chaos and grief, but LET US organize and decide how to deal with the problems. Give us tools to do that.

     

    Those communities and areas where players dont trully socialize will devolve into a mirror of themselves and perish, become ruins, abandoned and covens of backstabbing bandits.

     

    Dont bother making a game engine where the terrain isnt changeable/destructionable. 

    Dont bother making a game engine where players cant build anything anywhere.

     

    No bullshit logging off. No bullshit everyone is a hero. No bullshit player in an invulnerable bubble.

    Enough with games without realistic bio-chemical simulation. No more "HP" or "life bar" abstractions.

    If you get hit with a halberd chop on your armorless shoulder you lose your fucking arm! And die from bleeding soon later. Make a new character and learn not to get on the way of a halberd chop next time.

    And yeah, start a new character as a kid, without weapons and must do chores for the elders in the village and no being a hero for you. If you leave the village another player can come and do bad things to you because you are a kid.

    And make the game with a finite number of animals that only increase by natural reproduction. So players can extinct them and screw up the whole environment. Good job, you rid the world of boars! Then the world changes into an alternate future without boars, imagine that!

    I want to see all the abstractions that remove immersion and realism removed.

    I want to sleep, drink and eat and poop and piss.  I want to see who would go around playing with female avatars.

    How do you like that? Sit to piss or shamefully stain your armor.

    And races. Whites, Blacks, Asians, etc... Each with its own traits.

     

     

     

  • AliGeniusAliGenius Toronto, ONPosts: 31Member

    Brick.

     

     

    I'd just like an open world Middle-Earth. An world. to explore. The Skyrim mod was looking good, but they shut it down so hopefully WB will pick up the torch.

    image

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    First you have to define what makes a game vs a world. Simulations can only be so detailed.

    I think you want a simulation, not a game. It's quistionable how fun that can be made. Doing remedial tasks necessary for a simulation may not be fun.

    Games these days could use more depth, but I think the amount of work needed to make a world/simulation would go unappreciated by the majority of players, so I think developers think it's not worth their time.

     

     

    Even with the more sandboxy games we have today, they still feel really gamey.

    I doubt we're gonna see a world simulation anytime soon from any worthwhile developer. I'm sure plenty of indies / hobby developers will attempt it, but those will fail almost guaranteed, or be of poor quality.

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