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Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by Rasputin Several people here start by saying "we grew up", and then go on about how gaming has changed.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
They stated "we grew up" as number one and only, followed by a punctuation. That seemed pretty exclusive to me.
Great thread. I am really enjoying the intelligent, different perspectives.
Some have said EQ has not changed. On one side I agree. Its (for lack of a better term) grind + get stuff + progress + rinse repeat. But I ask further isn't that the core of ANY RPG? Perhaps that is what I grew up on, but it is something I happen to like.
Speaking to those looking for something different... what would be some of your ideas? I'm curious.
In terms of Kinect (having one), its a great technology. Removes the need of the controller. unfortunately the tracking technology is not up to par ruining the experience. When that catches up then I agree we could have a new way to experience an RPG that I'd actually be interested in.
Originally posted by Jackdog I think I might be burned out on the MMO genre. Still enjoying my RPG's and FPS's and not much have changed about them in the last 20 or so years. Turning point for me was when I realized there is nothing difficult about a MMO, just need to devote lots of time and you too can be "that guy"
That is the whole point of the RPG. The "challenge" was never skill based but time based. How much of it were you willing to invest to see all of the content. That's the aspect of RPGs that I love thus I want it stretched out as long as possible with as much as possible to do. Just dont force me down a pre-determined path and allow me to complete things out of order.
That entire concept is gone now. RPGs have been reduced to 'action games' that allow you to flip some bits to increase particular attributes. Its a completely different game design. The minute you introduce skill you need something exciting and interesting to fight. Its much easier to have a long time-based game (built on growth) than to have a long skill-based game.
Gamers today lack the patience to enjoy a true RPG so developers don't create them anymore.
I was grown up when the first computer games were developed. I was an adult when the first PC was released, I was old when the first MMORPG came out.
In too many of these threads people assume that - because they were young when they played their first game - other players would have been young too. Wrong.
Loads of people 10 or 20 years ago experienced their first computer game, their first MMORPG as adult - with job, wife and kids and all that jazz.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Originally posted by darkhalf357x Gamers today lack the patience to enjoy a true RPG so developers don't create them anymore.
I don't think it is just a lack of patience, I think a lot more players are competative in their games. Whether this is because the players have changed or the games have changed I don't know.
Perhaps my quote earlier was too subtle, let me offer two definitions.
It's simple they are not smart enough to realize that if you focus on a smaller community of gamers and give them what they want they will stick around and be loyal much more. Anarchy Online was to me the best game ever and I am very loyal to it. I would give up all other games if they made some updates to it. I would also shell out lots of money to play it if they did this.
Focus on quality not quantity and you will be rewarded with loyal fanbase that will give your game longevity. Stop putting so much money into the game for these huge epic things and make the small things matter. Its the small things in video games that people want.
Instead they just worry about how many people will buy it and how much money they can get in "right now"
Game companies now compared to game companies then is a lot like that study they do on kids. You can have a dime now or wait and have a quarter later. The kid always takes the dime like a dumba#$. Well we need a game company that has the patience to take the quarter later.
I'm 38 and grew up on kings quest and bards tale. My first mmo was eq in 99.
I am pretty anti- themepark these days as the only MMO's that I feel have some depth and adequate risk vs reward are some sandboxes.
There are games I find that are gems still. For example I played age of empires for the first time and realized its a pretty cool strategy game. Now I'm just waiting for more sandboxes to come out that I want to try... The repopulation, star citizen, greed monger, Archeage, etc.
I still enjoy playing vanguard, xsyon, and tale in the desert from time to time.
Originally posted by Rasputin Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by Rasputin Several people here start by saying "we grew up", and then go on about how gaming has changed.
I've been gaming since video games were invented, and I will game until I physically cannot anymore. Gaming has no more to do with maturity than does watching a movie or TV. I didn't outgrow TV, however, I did outgrow the Saturday morning cartoons. These games we have now are the Saturday morning cartoons, and it's time for some more deep and engaging MMO games for those of us who want them.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Originally posted by MindTrigger Originally posted by Rasputin Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by Rasputin Several people here start by saying "we grew up", and then go on about how gaming has changed.
Well said. This is so true.
This is so funny!
I played Pong at the age of 10 for the first time (if I remember correctly). C64 came out when I was 13 or so. My first days of computer programming. I'm still in development these days.
However, as far as the games are concerned: it is not us. Back in the days they actually thought through game desings to make it 'entertaining' for the gamer. These days it is about selling, not about making it most fun. Graphics are more important than game mechanices. While in the early days of computer gaming, those graphics were too limited to make them the most important factor of the game. So they were forced to make a game appealing by its gameplay.
As far as MMOs are concerned: many have said it already. As of WoW, all that is being presented to us, is some form of copy of the WoW-concept. Same old...
I remember the awesomeness of the worlds of the Ultima series. Those were real discoveries. Of course, nowadays those could be made again, if there would be the willingness to actually design a game that has the same kind of appeal.
I personally really enjoyed DAoC, but that was mostly because of the forced group combat. You had to be social, know your role in a group and know others, otherwise you could forget about your fun game experience. With the WoW concept they basically introduced the single player MMO. In my mind that is about as boring as it can get. Why do I want to play a MMO that is bottom line a single player game?
I thought the concept of SWG vanilla was a good one. Shame though it was so buggy and never got a chance to shine. I loved UO, and have never seen anything like it again. WoW vanilla was sort of fun, though I thought it was rather shalow compared with existing games. Crafting was a joke, and leveling too fast. Yet, compared to what you find now, it was a complete blessing. Unfortunately though, they also dumbed that down so that the 5 year olds don't get confused and can have fun with it as well.
As I see it, there just isn't anything out there that is really fun and an entertaining challenge anymore. It's copy/paste with little fantasy or creativity put into it. Challenge is bad these days it seems, so then it gets bland.
Granted that family life doesn't help either. The days in which I played DAoC I used to be on a raid for 4 hours straight. I can forget about that with my work and family life these days. So also that plays a big role.
I think our only hope is for the current market to get completely saturated (which I think it already is) and game makers seeing themselves forced to go back for better quality games, which will have a better design from the onset. But I doubt it's our age. I don't know about you, but I still feel young enough to get excited about a good online game. It's just been a while since I've seen a potentially good one being announced.
I loved EQ up till PoP , they started runining it at PoP and further.
Really enjoyed DAOC up to one of the expansions (cant remember which ) that drastically changed it also.
Like Vanilla WoW , with Tarren Mill battles with no DK points , no shiny rewards for killing the enemy and AV lasted for hours and people fought the entire time with a desire to win and not worry about points for themselves. Blizzard ruined , ruined WoW and specifically AV which was my favorite BG.
I still enjoy mmorpg's just as much at 40 as I did in my 20's , it's just that development studios ruined the ones I liked and seem to be making crap ones for the lowest common denominator nowadays.
It's as if every restaurant I normally go to has decided to become McDonalds.
Who's "they"? Consider the source.
People prone to bifucation tend to present either/or situations that...aren't,
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by LIOKI the games have changed and are designed around the no [mod edit] left behind policy and mmo vets find it insulting.
Very sig worthy
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
I miss DAoC
Age is the bad guy, one day your killing Tango's and the next, your asked to take a desk job. Sigh
I get where you're coming from.
FFXI was my first MMO and I loved it! Lived and breathed it in fact. I had no problem sitting down and giving 8 hours of my life at a time to that game. Then I played WoW and loved it (Vanilla, I stopped like WoW after BC). I had no issues with the grind.
Now a days though, since I actually want to keep my husband and my job (which requires a lot of off the clock hours), I can't afford to game for 8 hours straight. I still play and play often but never for the marathon timeframes I used to. So when I log in and have to grind out levels I get annoyed. I'm talking any grind, quest grind, mob grind, fill in the heart grind...whatever. I understand why it's there and all but when I'm most interested in the story spending what will literally take me weeks (due to the fact I have a life and a job) just to get to the next portion of it is flat out annoying.
So I guess I have to face the facts that I grew up. It isn't that I don't want to game and raid and all that MMO fun, it's that I just don't have the time I once did. Thankfully I can find what I'm looking for in RPG's which have been taking up most of my times now a days.
I really enjoy GW2, and I love the monthly price tag, but the grind (fill in the hearts) is just keeping me from logging in as much as I would. And before anyone says anything about WvW no I don't like PvP. I like coop but not PvP.
I'm not saying games need to change just realizing that I may never really be an MMO gamer again. Which is kinda sad. Oh well, life goes on.
A lot of the problem really is that stuff you done for a long time isnt as fun as it was in the beginning.
As example are Skyrim not as great as me as it is for many people who played few games of its type before, I played Daggerfall a long time and a whole bunch of similar game.
Calling this "growing up" is just silly, burned out is slightly better.
But the real problem is that almost all MMOs are very similar today and doing more or less the same thing over and over for 10 years (or more) should be boring. Either try different types of MMOs, Eve and PS2 are for example different or take a few years off.
The problem, is greed.
Look at the beginning of gaming, how it evolved. It was new ground ripe for innovation. For a long time it was. As that industry started making more and more and more money each year, it stopped being about making fun games and evolving from the last, and more about money.
Straight up, it's about money.
What developers do not see now is that your game doesn't have to be as successful as WoW, just because you don't make loads of ass cash doesn't mean your game isn't successful. Greed is what happened, not just for MMO's, but the entire genre as a whole. You want to play great games? Start looking at indie developers. Their games mean something to them and aren't just moneybags in their eyes; back to the way it was originally.
For me, my first game was Super Mario Bros. From there, I played A LOT of games over many different systems. So to answer your question about getting older...no, it's not that. What it is, is experience. I've played these games before, and I've beat them. I see no reason to continue playing yet another game that simply has a different art skin. I want to play something I've never played before, I want something new.
These days, a lot of times I get attached to one part of a game, and I enjoy playing that. Such as WoW, where I loved pvping, or SWTOR, where I enjoy crafting stuff for my alts so they are super powerful while leveling. I'm waiting for games to evolve, and while I can say companies like Blizzard are staying ahead of the game, no other devs will ever be intelligent enough to catch up. That being said, you're not getting old, man; yes we have responsibilities, but we will always love those games, that's something you can't ever change, especially when it was such a large part of your childhood.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"~Lord George Gordon Byron
I'm in your same boat, just a couple of years behind. I started getting majorly into online gaming with Counter-strike, followed by a try at MMO's with Everquest. Eventually got into Anarchy Online, Planetside, and then (Unfortunately) World of Warcraft during it's beta and pre-expansion days. I played those three games pretty much for the last 9-11 years (AO being the older one). In the meantime the only modern single player games that came along that kept me peeled and entertained were the KOTOR, Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and Mass Effect series. Ironically all of which (Except KOTOR's sequel) were made by Bioware.
I have since lost hope in the short term future of games since Bioware was bought out by EA and now all the staff have been laid off/resigned. It's a sad dim future ahead indeed. But for online gaming, I've been playing Planetside 2 as of late and that's where I'll be sitting in my already short spare time.
So in a way, it's a bit of both. I have matured, and games seemed to have gotten worse.
Originally posted by Grimmx From a pvp'ers perspective. 1. I dont have the time to be hardcore anymore. To do that you have to play ALOT. When i cant play that much i always end up at an disadvantage in FFA pvp environments. I loved it back when i was on the top of my game, but i love my kids and wife more 2. Im a grown man. This makes it difficult for me to settle in a good guild, i havent found one in years. Not with the mature cool kind of people im looking for. Im a relic I used to run or be officer in good guilds, but just dont have the time anymore. 3. No good pvp games anymore. I loved AC1 (Darktide), Shadowbane, DAoC. Games are good looking and dumbed down to the extreme. (Right now ill try Darkfall. (eu) solo and hopefully ill find a good guild.) For me i just cant get the same satisfaction out of gaming anymore because i dont like doing things halfway. And i just dont have time to be at my best anymore. The same goes for PvE games. I like chasing carrots in games, be on top etc. Now i just dont have time for it anymore, and that in it self makes MMORPG's less fun for me personally. Answer = I dont have enough time play and gaming industry has basicly dumbed down all games. Where is the challenge?
This pretty much sums up my situation as well.
Originally posted by doragon86 Are we getting burned out? I don't believe so. It's more a matter that there is a lack of innovation in MMORPGs. For the most part you're getting more of the same, and thus the old vets are tired of it or getting there.
This i was just about to give up on mmo's until i saw a few real mmo's due to be released soon. Not burnt out, just sickened by the console rpg things they call mmo's today. You know its pretty pathetic when a new rpg for a console has more content than a MMO.
I do believe the industry is about to change. Too much money, time, skill is being wasted on the exact same thing and 95% of all new mmo's fail within the first 3 months. THats just sad.
Notice a lot of the asian companies are starting to switch back to rea mmo game making. Western world will soon follow.
Originally posted by jdlamson75 I remember playing P&P D&D - again, greatest thing ever. Then came NES, SEGA Genesis, and all the others to follow. Then I grew up and was able to purchase a gaming computer - I've played the hell outta some games since.
You can allways go back to AD&D in your livingroom, big table, friends around, beer and snacks in the fridge, dimmed light and a good DM. No Computer game ever comes close to that. Because a good DM can make the game progress and change depending on the individual needs of the players.
But where do you find likeminded people in your neighboorhood?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)