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Are we old vets burned out or did we grow up?

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  • Yodi2007Yodi2007 Valdosta, GAPosts: 167Member

    I'm not burnout on gaming just sick and tired of the BS devs want to constantly push out the door! I mean how many times i gotta hear a dev say "We looked at WoW, and took what made it a huge success".. really!? I can tell you what made WoW what it is now it was some games called Warcraft 1,2,&3 those games built a base among fans with commited devs and not some Publishing suits. Heck I never played any of the Warcraft games until I played vanilla wow.

    Games these days need to focus on getting the attention of  players the first few levels and keep the fun factor up throughout the entire game. Initial box sales mean nothing if people are burning through content in less than a month! 

    Another thing i think has hurt MMO's is too much PvP that is centered around getting gear instead of around the fun factor! Why not have "Arena PvP" and "True War pvP". We all pretty much know what "Arena" pvp is , but what about war pvp meaning not some phasing or instanced crap, I mean if you fail to defend your country, base, or whatever you will lose it! 

    I mean i could get into what I think Devs should be looking at but there is far too much to write about!

    Below is where we can disscuss and come up with new ideas for Sandparks!

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5164689#5164689

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    I still enjoy gaming, just not the same type of gaming I have been playing for nearly 14 years. Same way I don't really find arcade games I played when I was a kid fun anymore. I still find gems here and there I play extensively
  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

    Have been an interesting read, I'm glad that so many are on the same boat.

    We can only hope for future games will give us that spark back we used to have.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • GrimmxGrimmx SandefjordPosts: 219Member

    From a pvp'ers perspective.

    1. I dont have the time to be hardcore anymore.  To do that you have to play ALOT.  When i cant play that much i always end up at an disadvantage in FFA pvp environments. I loved it back when i was on the top of my game, but i love my kids and wife more ;)

    2. Im a grown man. This makes it difficult for me to settle in a good guild, i havent found one in years. Not with the mature cool kind of people im looking for. Im a relic ;) I used to run or be officer in good guilds, but just dont have the time anymore.

    3. No good pvp games anymore. I loved AC1 (Darktide), Shadowbane, DAoC. Games are good looking and dumbed down to the extreme.

    (Right now ill try Darkfall. (eu)  solo and hopefully ill find a good guild.)

    For me i just cant get the same satisfaction out of gaming anymore because i dont like doing things halfway. And i just dont have time to be at my best anymore. The same goes for PvE games. I like chasing carrots in games, be on top etc. Now i just dont have time for it anymore, and that in it self makes MMORPG's less fun for me personally.

     

    Answer = I dont have enough time play and gaming industry has basicly dumbed down all games. Where is the challenge?

  • monstermmomonstermmo Glendale, CAPosts: 1,062Member

    Sounds burned out to me.

    Did you end up playing only online games like i did? After i got sick and tired of the MMORPG system like WoW and Rift and such i thought i was getting sick of games altogether because i couldnt find anything i wanted to stick with even tho i found a lot that i enjoyed. But then i got back into single player games and im having a blast with them.  

    Its changed things for me, i still like playing online but it actually gives me a big break from playing with a bunch of a**holes when i get into a single player one.

    To me it sounds like you either need a break from games, or simply need to play some different kind of games.

     

    Recently i've been enjoying the crap out of Kingdoms of Amalur. =)

    Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
    Join me on Raptr Steam Facebook Twitter Gameverse

  • SwampDragonsSwampDragons KavlingePosts: 324Member Uncommon

    The games that come out this days are all the same, nothing new just the same old playstyle.

    I still play the first mmo I started playing, I tried most of the other ones but they really are just the same game so no point changing.

    I also belive that the people that make there voices heard the most when it comes to playerbase have no clue what they want and the DEV's listen waaaay to much to the community of players.

    So causs of that the games just end up all the same for people that dont know what they want and it all tastes bland and boring.

  • TalgenTalgen Reading, PAPosts: 400Member
    Well I gotta say I'm impressed.  This is the first thread in a LOOONG time that has gotten to 2 pages without a single flame in it..  Wow.. Sorry to derail it, but it gives me some kind of hope. Kudos to you all.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,002Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ozmono

    Originally posted by Icewhite
    "Old vets" is a specious group to present, since (quite obviously) many of us rarely agree. Want to talk about individuals?  Okay, but I'd need the mod's permission to express opinions on the topic.  I consider that extraordinarily unlikely.  As a result, this thread can't go anywhere good.  There are perhaps a dozen individuals that I would consider hopeless cases; they clearly are not going to find a new game that pleases them, ever.  They just have impossible expectations, and they don't play well with others. Another, oh, fifty or so habitual drama queens; they're not really miserable, they just like to fight amongst themselves.  Speak in absolutes, cry doom, complain incessantly, etc. And a couple of hundred flat-out trolls.  Just want to get you (or me, or you over there) and push your buttons.  Most of them probably do not consider themselves trolls...or not often.  But read the carnage every weekend morning... There, I've been candid.  The generally results in a few days off.  I'll just enjoy playing, instead. Candid examination of our mmorpg.com local denizens, of course, can/will be bifurcated into "blame the customers".

    Where do you class yourself in these groups of people or types of mmorpg.com local denizens as you call them?

    The problem too often on these forums is that people are over confident in their analysis of everyone else. It's most probable that people could achieve much more if they focused their attention on describing their own opinions or better yet improving themselves rather than looking down their noses and labeling everyone else. There is a huge spectrum of beliefs and unimaginable variety of peoples and quite frankly belonging to one or a few of the groups that is quoted above is preferable to belong to the group I mention. Trust me I am a part of it.

     

    +1. Well said sir, as you noted, some folks fail to see themselves in the mirror. Me, I know what I like and largely it no longer exists, EVE not withstanding. But there's always hope on the horizon with every new title that one day someone will get it right again.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • LonzoLonzo GoettingenPosts: 235Member Uncommon

    I think it is all the game developers fault. I play computer games since the late 80ies, I am 34 years old and played all named RPGs  since Eye of the beholder, including all MMO variants (UO,EQ and so on ).

    The Problem is the gamedevelopment. Everyone is crying out " we need new ideas bla bla" . No we Dont! If there was a new remake of the original EQ1 with good programming and grafics the magic would return. If there was a new well thought out Shadowbane, the magic would return. UO with all its features in new shiny clothes, the magic would return.

    The developers these days just care about F2P models, XP boosts and casual players. Why??? Leave this field to Zynga and please take EA with you!

     

    image
  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    We all get jaded and we get jaded by our main hobbies more than anything else. But as we have changed MMO's have changed too. If they now had stronger stories and social interaction, became more world like and allowed amazing faction warfare, we would be far less jaded.

    But they have become streamlind easyMMO's. Which cannot hold anyones attention for more than a few months. So it is hardly surprising we find them so shallow.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by ozmono

    Where do you class yourself in these groups of people or types of mmorpg.com local denizens as you call them?

    The problem too often on these forums is that people are over confident in their analysis of everyone else. It's most probable that people could achieve much more if they focused their attention on describing their own opinions or better yet improving themselves rather than looking down their noses and labeling everyone else. There is a huge spectrum of beliefs and unimaginable variety of peoples and quite frankly belonging to one or a few of the groups that is quoted above is preferable to belong to the group I mention. Trust me I am a part of it.

    Oh, no doubt among the habitual trolls.  Enough people that've taken a personal dislike to me have told me so.

    But that's more from being a 30-year forum vet than a gaming vet :P

    The question asked, as asked, is impossible to answer without "looking down your nose at everyone else"--frankly appraising their behavior from an outside POV--you can't shake someone out of their delusions without it.  As  long as they maintain those delusions, they'll continue to believe the tear-the-world-down game they're playing is a healthy one...for them, or for the industry.

    Torgim, remake the thread, let's talk about negativity, cynicism, and anonymity instead.  Might be more approachable topics.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    We probably have "grown up", but I don't think that means we grew out of gaming.  What I find is that the games marketed at your average MMO gamer (almost all of them) don't appeal to me because I want a deeper, more complex experience.  It's likely that a lot of gamers who have been into MMO's for a long time really expect more now.

    Imo, this is exactly right.

    Honestly we should have more in these games.  When you look at how much they have evolved, I mean really look at the programming and technology, there's doesn't seem to be much to point to.  Your average MMO appears to have no better AI, for example, than the aliens in the original Unreal FPS game.  In fact, I don't think they have much AI at all.  They just seem to have some mechanical reactions to getting attacked, which includes a list of attacks and a roll of the dice to see which one will get thrown.  That's just weak.

    The irony is that mmorpgs should replace AI with other players, because AI is never going to be as complex to interact with (not until some sort of quantum computing pisses all over the Turing test). Yet so many mmorpgs limit player-player interaction! It's crazy.

    While game worlds obviously look better, most of them don't really have much for dynamic content that make the world feel alive.  What is available feels very mechnical and contrived after a short time playing.  The atmospheric  / weather systems in these games feels weak, if they bother to put it in at all these days.  Look at SWTOR abandoning even the day and night cycle, let alone dynamic weather.

    The graphics have been market driven to look better but all that rendering just limits the dynamic systems to interact with. Eg dwarf fortress, minecraft.

    I'd back up the above by saying iOS gaming is a sort of golden age for games that were doing the rounds back in the day. Quick, cheap and experimental reduxes.

    Be interesting to see how some of the quasi-mmo sandboxes end up doing eg Star Citizen, Elite:dangerous, 0x10^c and so on.

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Pong for me was 1979 on my Coleco Telstar Ranger.

    I'm having more fun gaming now than ever.

    Anyone complaining is burnt out. Go outside and take a break.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • cybertruckercybertrucker Pensacola, FLPosts: 1,119Member

    War stories all of us old timers have them. Some good some bad. My suggestion. Go check out VANGUARD especially now is a good time. 

  • pauly6478pauly6478 binghamton, NYPosts: 276Member
    Games you to be focused on quality and working towards pleasing smaller group of people. Now its all about making the carebears happy and making as much money as possible. Back then they used their imagination to come out with new stuff. When is the last time you saw anything truley original? If you say GW2 was original your whats wrong with the gaming community. Simply nothing will ever get better until we as gamers get together and refuse to buy certain games. For instance the amount of money they just made off of the new call of duty baffles me. How can you pay for something so boring and generic and think you will ever get a new type of game.
  • biazbzzitebiazbzzite UtrechtPosts: 2Member Common

    There is no way to sugar-coat  this, so let’s just put it bluntly and clear. Games became mainstream.  At our present day most games are commercially exploited products hiding behind a thin layer of (sugar)eye-candy. Yes, there are exceptions, there are always exceptions (or worse, statistics).

    Basically, it went from competent developers to mass production, man.

    It is completely like the music industry. From competent  artists to mass production. Oh hey, welcome to capitalism. Enjoy your stay.

     

    peace

  • pauly6478pauly6478 binghamton, NYPosts: 276Member
    SATURATION
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by pauly6478
    SATURATION

    SATIATION might be more appropriate, for this topic.

    Or ENNUI, but that doesn't have the clever alliteration.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • CalkrowCalkrow WokinghamPosts: 79Member Uncommon

    "Man does not cease to play because he grows old....

    He grows old because he ceases to play."

     

    George Benard Shaw

  • Arcondo87Arcondo87 Prince Albert, SKPosts: 94Member
    I think i grew up otta mmorpg's....everyone i try to play seems like it feels like every other mmo i played. they all play the same and i get bored within the hr of playing. Reason why i am saying this is cuz i cant stop playing Salem right now...i wake up salem till i go to bed....
  • RavingRabbidRavingRabbid Virginia beach, VAPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    Combination of things I belive OP. I just dont see any games on the horizon that excite me except WOD Online. Ive also past the point of disliking any fantasy mmo's.

    All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
    Playing: SWTOR, ESO, WOT, and Marvel Heroes

  • RasputinRasputin gnaf, AKPosts: 604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by darkhalf357x
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    For me i like gaming this is part of my life since pong 1982 at the girl next door who had a big brother that had that very first "mobile" playing station.

    I wasen't into mud, I played games on 64, and Amiga, my very first MMO was Meridian59 that game as a demo, yeah funny it wasen't called freetrial back then.

    I played the demo didn't like much, so I continued playing C&C, Starcontrol 2, D&D games and alike and bla bla.

    I loved Baldurs  gate 1 and 2, I loved Icewind dale 1, I loved Ultima series from 1 to Online.

    I tried SWG at launch it was a mess but got better at the end, I fell in love with EQ, but got pissed more times than I want to say ;)

    I really love gaming well I thought I did, let me explain, I'm a gamer like all of you, we all like games, I can read about a game dream about it how much fun it will be but the thing is is when I get the game It's not always like it used to the feeling is gone

    Sure the game is good and fun and every bells and wissles are there just like the old days but I lost the feeling.

    I can still feel the upcomming games with joy but not as much playing them, sure I'm having fun, but the fun I had when I was younger., that feeling is gone.

    SO am I'm burned out or am I a relic of old gaming?

    Im the same.  Started gaming back in 78 with the Telestar Ranger system. Rolled through all the console generations starting with Atari 2600.  Did some Vic20 and C64 but never really got (heavy) into PC gaming until recently.

    Long story short we grew up.  Half of us are starting to hit our 40s.  Some of us have families, involved work schedules or just plain interesting lives.  The thing I loved about games in the past was they left alot to the imagination.  They were built to be semi dramatic and fun.  

    What I personally noticed is that gaming started to become hyper realistic.  No longer was it just OK to save the world, or the princess or just to explore.  Now you had to have serious seedy backstory, anti-hero mechanics and a level of maturity that prevents me to enjoy some AAA games with my kids.  Its own popularity is to blame as well, for when we were playing games it was an undergroud niche pass time.  It was seen as quirky and geeky.  Now even my mom plays games.  Expanding the market to the masses just oversaturated the market.  All part of its evolution.

    The future of gaming is now moving far enough away from what I enjoy that I dont follow it with the same enthusiasm.  I'll always be interested and probably try the latest and greatest but I'm smart enough to know I wont stick with it.  The silver lining for me is now I get to go back and enjoy some of the great titles of the past that I didnt get to play.  With all this twitch / action combat MMO themes going on recently, it feels really good to sit back and thoroughly enjoy EverQuest (as I didnt get to play it at launch).  It really is a unique game that caters to what I look for in an RPG.  Looking back I find it odd (and saddened) that no one really took it further.

    Even with the this talk (buzz word) of emergent gameplay and sandbox, I dont believe it will deliver the level of interaction I interpret to be fun.  Am I mad at the developers or the market?  What for?  They are just catering to their audience.  I just chalk up the memories of growing up during the golden age of gaming reiving the past with emulators (now I can play Super Nintenodo on my phone) and such.

    Who knows, maybe one day a small niche developer might actually create a throw back RPG of my heyday of which I would thoroughly enjoy.

    You start by saying "we grew up", and then you go on a long run of how games changed and how you still enjoy the old games on emulators, and how you remember the "golden years of gaming" (meaning that these aren't).

    Have you considered re-evaluating your stance, that "we grew up"?

  • RasputinRasputin gnaf, AKPosts: 604Member Uncommon

    Several people here start by saying "we grew up", and then go on about how gaming has changed.

    Come on! Can't you even remember the statement from the beginning of your post to when you begin countering it? Maybe senility is the real culprit here :)

     

    You have to be more aware of what it is you have an opinion on. Do you still get that feeling you did back then now and then? If so, then maybe it isn't you, because some new games can still do it to you. Do you feel the same when you go back to the old games, and it is so long ago, that it is almost like starting again?

    If both of these conditions are true, then it is the evolvement of games, not necessarily you, who changed fundamentally.

    Of course we don't experience the world as we did when we were kids, but still, I believe a big part of the lost feeling is to blame on the games.

  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCPosts: 6,344Member
    I think I might be burned out on the  MMO genre. Still enjoying my RPG's and FPS's and not much have changed about them in the last 20 or so years. Turning point for me was when I realized there is nothing difficult about a MMO, just need to devote lots of time and you too can be "that guy"

    I miss DAoC

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Rasputin

    Several people here start by saying "we grew up", and then go on about how gaming has changed.

    The two are not mutually exclusive.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

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