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The 'Group Play vs Solo Play in an MMO' Thread

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  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by Adamai
    Its an mmo. Absolutely no solo play because you solo guys are a game breaking feature.

    Ive said this before, but Ill say it again. Not everyone plays MMOs for the same reason. You might play for required grouping, but there are several reasons out there to play that have absolutely nothing to do with grouping or lack of it:

    - Personally, I mainly play for PvP. Testing myself vs other human players rather than NPCs. Only MMOs and other types of online games offer this.

    Other reasons people might play that require no grouping whatsoever:

    - The ability to chat and socialize with people from all over the world while playing a game they enjoy.

    - Economics and markets. Some people enjoy these aspects of games and playing the markets to maximize their profits.

    - Playing in a persistant and ever changing world with new content and experiences added regularly. Something single player games generally dont offer

    - The ability to have an impact on other people, or be impacted by them in various forms

    - Attempting to become well known for something such as a great PvPer, great crafter, very knowledgable person, etc

    - In the case of sandboxes especially, being able to show off your work to the world. Thinkof games like Xsyon, Wurm, etc where you can build all kinds of cool stuff, do terraforming, etc and other players can come and admire the things you have built

    Or, for most casual players, just to have fun while engaged in an activity that exists to waste free time.  That's all a game is, after all, it's a time-waster.

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  • aponeleeaponelee New York, NYPosts: 3Member
    When I played Guild war, I always played sololy and soon I gave it up. Later I played WOW, I leveled sololy but I can did instance running frequently.  So I think the best game is: You can play in the style you want. If you want solo, then no one will disturb you; If you want to join group, you can easily find a group.

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  • kalistikalisti marin, CAPosts: 2Member
    I think people should play how they like. But MMOs are skewed towards group play, and people like me who like to play solo a lot just need to accept that and move on. ;)
  • fetarnoxfetarnox Mifflintown, PAPosts: 8Member

     


    How I feel about this issue is the only right way to see it, no compromise should be attempted. MMO's should cater exlusively to my playstyle, everyone else is an idiot.


    My mommy says I can play grown up games if I want. Even if big boys are ganking lots of innocent little kids, she says it's good for me to see the crueler side of ugly. When I get a bit older, I plan to be a rugby all-star, and I wont hold back on anyone. If you are in my way, I will scrum your little white arse like a brick truck barreling out of control or a two thousand ton passenger train traveling at mach one. I don't care about whether it is solo or party...I wont be denied! I will own your posterior, and will not hesitate on pleasure myself with it.


    Its an mmo. Absolutely no solo play because you solo guys are a game breaking feature.


    When I played Guild war, I always played sololy and soon I gave it up. Later I played WOW, I leveled sololy but I can did instance running frequently. So I think the best game is: You can play in the style you want. If you want solo, then no one will disturb you; If you want to join group, you can easily find a group.


    Ask that from the developers, not me.If you design the game in a specific way, you step on one playstyle's shoes while catering to the other. I wish it wasn't like that, but what can I do.


    When alot of people choose a certain gamestyle, it is true that they indirectly move the genre in a specific way, and developers try to follow it, but to blame the people that choose whats fun for them for your lack of fun is ridiculous. Blame developers for not making enough niche games, but dont blame the players for choosing how to spend their time.


    But when game's don't support any other playstyle than his, only he gets to pick his own playstyle.

    What was this discussion about again...party versus solo? If you want to solo, why not play Space Invaders...or maybe Super Mario Brothers? LOL! Just Kidding.

     

    Can you read slant-lettered words without moving squint-strained lips?

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by kalisti
    I think people should play how they like. But MMOs are skewed towards group play, and people like me who like to play solo a lot just need to accept that and move on. ;)

    But they're not, most MMOs are skewed toward solo play because that's the majority of people who play these games.  MMO developers make the vast majority of their money from people who want to play solo.  It's the groupers who sit around and whine incessantly how unfair it is that developers don't cater to a minority gameplay position.

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  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,314Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by kalisti
    I think people should play how they like. But MMOs are skewed towards group play, and people like me who like to play solo a lot just need to accept that and move on. ;)

    But they're not, most MMOs are skewed toward solo play because that's the majority of people who play these games.  MMO developers make the vast majority of their money from people who want to play solo.  It's the groupers who sit around and whine incessantly how unfair it is that developers don't cater to a minority gameplay position.

     Are they skewed that way though?  In every MMO I've played groupers were significantly rewarded.  Better coin, xp, loot from group play.  There is usually significantly more variety in group play than solo play.  Look at WoW for groups there are dungeons, raids, arena's, bg's.  For solo there is questing and crafting.

    I would say games are more skewed towards group play.  I'm fine with that but please at least keep the questing for when we want to solo.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

     Are they skewed that way though?  In every MMO I've played groupers were significantly rewarded.  Better coin, xp, loot from group play.  There is usually significantly more variety in group play than solo play.  Look at WoW for groups there are dungeons, raids, arena's, bg's.  For solo there is questing and crafting.

    I would say games are more skewed towards group play.  I'm fine with that but please at least keep the questing for when we want to solo.

    Tell that to all the grouping whiners who are convinced that soloing ruined MMOs.  In fact, it only makes sense that grouping would inherently  give you better reward, you're working with more people, more people means more firepower, that means the ability to take on bigger prey, thus more XP and more loot.  In the absence of scalable mobs, a mob that has X hit points and is built to be a challenge for one person, suddenly is no challenge at all for a group that can throw 5x the DPS at it.

    Most of the things you list for groups is end-game content.  Most soloers are during-game players.

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  • fetarnoxfetarnox Mifflintown, PAPosts: 8Member

    For me, inquiring about which is best..."group" or "solo"...is not the right question to ask. A better question is "What is the best way to balance a game for both types of players?" My problem with games like these have always been the constant nerfing and equalization of characters...resulting in boring classes that feel weak and unconvincing. Of course a DD player should more often win in a dual...why belabor the fact? As a result, in the end (in PvP heavy games) skills feel somewhat miserly and watered-down to the point of absolute ineffectuality. As such, PvP demands this equalization so that everyone has a roughly equivalent chance at winning (in our world of ubiquitous democracy and equality)...when a battle is being waged one on one. However, in group play, such a battle dynamic suffers because job classes tend to loose their polish and speciality...which is desperately needed for effective grouping. In other words, DD becomes relatively weak, and ranged attackers loose their attraction; and I am not even going to mention healers in most of these PvP heavy games... quite insipid! In any event, it's all about balance and specialization anyway...and how these are dealt with relative to one another...and if a videogame developer does it right, there should be absolutely no complaints from anybody. This, in a nutshell, is my answer to your question: "Both, yet neither."

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  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by kalisti
    I think people should play how they like. But MMOs are skewed towards group play, and people like me who like to play solo a lot just need to accept that and move on. ;)

     

    Play a single-player game then. MMOs, by definition, are meant to be games to be played with other human controled characters.

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

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  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Originally posted by kalisti
    I think people should play how they like. But MMOs are skewed towards group play, and people like me who like to play solo a lot just need to accept that and move on. ;)

     

    Play a single-player game then. MMOs, by definition, are meant to be games to be played with other human controled characters.

    And we do play with them, we just have no interest in grouping with them.  Playing =/= grouping.

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  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004
    Originally posted by kalisti
    I think people should play how they like. But MMOs are skewed towards group play, and people like me who like to play solo a lot just need to accept that and move on. ;)

     

    Play a single-player game then. MMOs, by definition, are meant to be games to be played with other human controled characters.

    And we do play with them, we just have no interest in grouping with them.  Playing =/= grouping.

    Play solo = play without them.

    Unless you are fighting with human players instead of A.I characters when "solo playing".

     

     

     

     

     

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  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004

    Play solo = play without them.

    Unless you are fighting with human players instead of A.I characters when "solo playing".

     

    I don't PvP ever, regardless.  I am playing a game with a bunch of other people.  I don't have to be standing beside them, I don't have to be fighting the same mobs, the very fact that they are present in the game at the same time as I am means I am playing with them.

    Try again.

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  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004

    Play solo = play without them.

    Unless you are fighting with human players instead of A.I characters when "solo playing".

     

    I don't PvP ever, regardless.  I am playing a game with a bunch of other people.  I don't have to be standing beside them, I don't have to be fighting the same mobs, the very fact that they are present in the game at the same time as I am means I am playing with them.

    Try again.

    So why to play a mmo instead of a single-player game in this case?

    In a mmo, the AI content are only a scenario or "stage" to the interactions between characters controled by the players. This AI content is far more dull, shallow and boring than of most modern single-player games, since the single-player games has more freedom degree than mmos to create a dinamic and rich enviroment, completely tangled with the story and player actions. So, to play a mmo only for the AI content is like to go to a strip club only for the music instead of going to a show or concert.

     

     

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

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  • xeniarxeniar Posts: 805Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by Adamai
    Its an mmo. Absolutely no solo play because you solo guys are a game breaking feature.

    Ive said this before, but Ill say it again. Not everyone plays MMOs for the same reason. You might play for required grouping, but there are several reasons out there to play that have absolutely nothing to do with grouping or lack of it:

    - Personally, I mainly play for PvP. Testing myself vs other human players rather than NPCs. Only MMOs and other types of online games offer this.

    Other reasons people might play that require no grouping whatsoever:

    - The ability to chat and socialize with people from all over the world while playing a game they enjoy.

    - Economics and markets. Some people enjoy these aspects of games and playing the markets to maximize their profits.

    - Playing in a persistant and ever changing world with new content and experiences added regularly. Something single player games generally dont offer

    - The ability to have an impact on other people, or be impacted by them in various forms

    - Attempting to become well known for something such as a great PvPer, great crafter, very knowledgable person, etc

    - In the case of sandboxes especially, being able to show off your work to the world. Thinkof games like Xsyon, Wurm, etc where you can build all kinds of cool stuff, do terraforming, etc and other players can come and admire the things you have built

    You can (PvP) in any shooter game Leage of legend or whatever you dont need an MMO for that reason.

    Chatting and socializing is what grouping is all about because you will chat while grinding up your exp in your group. Grouping only compliments this.

    Economics will not be hurt in any way if grouping would be required.

    i dont call our world created of bg's dungeons etc persistent online worlds. a persitent online world would be imo a sandbox open to go wherever you want to. Again grouping has nothing to do with this.

    you have an impact on people by grouping with them because as you adventure together you will befriend them, having a impact on eachother's lives.

    grouping has nothing to do with becomign well know. well actually grouping will compliment this. because noboy will care about you or who you are if nobody ever sees you doing stuff.

     

    so yeah too all the things wich can be done in an mmo or be a reason someone plays can all be done With required grouping.

  • InktomiInktomi merrick, NYPosts: 663Member

    Group play upsides:

    • Socializing
    • not feeling "alone" all the time
    • better rewards
    • more laughs
    • healers always get invites
    Group play downsides
    • separate schedules
    • "c'mon man, one more run"
    • greedy gretchen loot-hoggery
    • superfast players and struggling to keep up
    • waiting for a healer/tank/dps (oh wait...I'm dps, lol!)
    Solo play upsides
    • I can /log /afk /read /take a phone call /etc anytime
    • "No, I don't want to run that dungeon 80 time until your get your item and then its "gtg"
    • not feeling guilty when you "gtg"
    • "It's mine all mine!"
    • No begging for heals in public chat
    Solo play downsides
    • boring
    • "I'm playing a social game...alone?"
    • I'mma solo this boss what me.....(x.x).....ok, Imma get him this time!
    • Your crafted loot is crap
    • You play a healer and getting pwned because your dps/tanking sucks
    Pick your poison.
  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by maccarthur2004

    So why to play a mmo instead of a single-player game in this case?

    In a mmo, the AI content are only a scenario or "stage" to the interactions between characters controled by the players. This AI content is far more dull, shallow and boring than of most modern single-player games, since the single-player games has more freedom degree than mmos to create a dinamic and rich enviroment, completely tangled with the story and player actions. So, to play a mmo only for the AI content is like to go to a strip club only for the music instead of going to a show or concert.

    Because there just aren't enough single-player games out there.  I can complete, beginning to end, 3-4 of them a month.  There isn't enough content available.  The only thing MMOs really have going for them is a wealth of constantly updated content.  Give me an infinite supply of high-quality single-player games like Skyrim or Fallout 3, I'll never play another MMO.

    Until then, I've got to take what I can get.

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  • sirchivesirchive Nowheresville, IDPosts: 72Member

    The solo vs group argument strikes me as completely ridiculous. Most modern MMOs do a good job of providing plenty of content for solo players and for group players. In fact, games like GW2 and Rift also do a good job of nudging solo players into automatic groups so they can get used to it.

    My feeling is that those arguing for hard content that forces grouping just don't want to share. They don't want a game that provides both solo and group content. They want the WHOLE game to be their way. This is infantile.

     

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by sirchive

    The solo vs group argument strikes me as completely ridiculous. Most modern MMOs do a good job of providing plenty of content for solo players and for group players. In fact, games like GW2 and Rift also do a good job of nudging solo players into automatic groups so they can get used to it.

    My feeling is that those arguing for hard content that forces grouping just don't want to share. They don't want a game that provides both solo and group content. They want the WHOLE game to be their way. This is infantile.

     

    You are largely right.  The fact is, lots of people who want hard content so everyone has to group are doing so for selfish reasons.  They want to group, they want lots of people they can group with all the time.  By forcing everyone else to group whether they want to or not, they're just increasing their own pool of potential group-mates.

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  • Gassy_the_GoblinGassy_the_Goblin Minneapolis, MNPosts: 16Member
    Always seems relaxing / fun to Solo when you don't want to be pressured about doing Group Play.
  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404

    You are largely right.  The fact is, lots of people who want hard content so everyone has to group are doing so for selfish reasons.  They want to group, they want lots of people they can group with all the time.  By forcing everyone else to group whether they want to or not, they're just increasing their own pool of potential group-mates.

    Wow, you go back to the same arguments every week, never listening to the other side at all. Being selfish is to think about 'me', but if you want other people to share content, to roll on loot with, to be able to heal allies or take the stress off the weaker characters, then surely you're thinking about the others rather than yourself?

    The selfish person is the one who wants all content to be his, who wants all loot to be his, who wants to go through dungeons alone, who wants to fight boss monsters alone, who doesn't want to join other players or bring other people along. The selfish person is the soloer. Solo = Self.

    You consider the idea of harder group content selfish because you alone wouldn't be able to access it, but the only person being selfish is you for not allowing people to do things you can't do. Oh, and, your 'forcing everyone to group whether they want to or not'. I'm sorry, did someone put a gun to your head and make you play? Because there's this thing called choice...

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,314Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by UsualSuspect
    Originally posted by Cephus404

    You are largely right.  The fact is, lots of people who want hard content so everyone has to group are doing so for selfish reasons.  They want to group, they want lots of people they can group with all the time.  By forcing everyone else to group whether they want to or not, they're just increasing their own pool of potential group-mates.

    Wow, you go back to the same arguments every week, never listening to the other side at all. Being selfish is to think about 'me', but if you want other people to share content, to roll on loot with, to be able to heal allies or take the stress off the weaker characters, then surely you're thinking about the others rather than yourself?

    The selfish person is the one who wants all content to be his, who wants all loot to be his, who wants to go through dungeons alone, who wants to fight boss monsters alone, who doesn't want to join other players or bring other people along. The selfish person is the soloer. Solo = Self.

    You consider the idea of harder group content selfish because you alone wouldn't be able to access it, but the only person being selfish is you for not allowing people to do things you can't do. Oh, and, your 'forcing everyone to group whether they want to or not'. I'm sorry, did someone put a gun to your head and make you play? Because there's this thing called choice...

    The selfish person is the one who believes everyone should play their way and yes there are a great many people on this site that believe people are playing games wrong and games should be made a certain way.

    There are also a great number of people on this site that like to throw strawmen around, and twist people's words to say something they didn't say, in order to validate some non-existance, erroneous and falacious point that only exists in their own mind. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • wordizwordiz Eugene, ORPosts: 464Member

    The option should be there for any way a person wants to play the game, however I don't think a multiplayer game should be crafted to cater to a single player base. As in reality, you shouldn't be able to conquer the world alone.

    The ability to hit level cap and be able to safely get around most areas of the map by yourself should be there. I do like the ideas of some of the end game zones in GW2 that were difficult to navigate alone. Getting players to group for non instanced pve at end game level is pretty cool.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by UsualSuspect
    Originally posted by Cephus404

    You are largely right.  The fact is, lots of people who want hard content so everyone has to group are doing so for selfish reasons.  They want to group, they want lots of people they can group with all the time.  By forcing everyone else to group whether they want to or not, they're just increasing their own pool of potential group-mates.

    Wow, you go back to the same arguments every week, never listening to the other side at all. Being selfish is to think about 'me', but if you want other people to share content, to roll on loot with, to be able to heal allies or take the stress off the weaker characters, then surely you're thinking about the others rather than yourself?

    The selfish person is the one who wants all content to be his, who wants all loot to be his, who wants to go through dungeons alone, who wants to fight boss monsters alone, who doesn't want to join other players or bring other people along. The selfish person is the soloer. Solo = Self.

    You consider the idea of harder group content selfish because you alone wouldn't be able to access it, but the only person being selfish is you for not allowing people to do things you can't do. Oh, and, your 'forcing everyone to group whether they want to or not'. I'm sorry, did someone put a gun to your head and make you play? Because there's this thing called choice...

    You keep making the same mistake, although that's not unusual.  Here's the reality.  It doesn't matter what you, personally, want in a game.  You, personally, are statistically irrelevant.  What matters is what millions of MMO players want in a game, collectively.  The majority is going to rule.

    You are not in the majority.

    Deal with it.

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  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404

    You keep making the same mistake, although that's not unusual.  Here's the reality.  It doesn't matter what you, personally, want in a game.  You, personally, are statistically irrelevant.  What matters is what millions of MMO players want in a game, collectively.  The majority is going to rule.

    You are not in the majority.

    Deal with it.

    What millions are these then? The millions in WoW? Because that's the only one with a high subscriber base. The other MMO's, the solo based MMO's that apparently millions of MMO players want, are failing one after the other, struggling to keep subscribers until they finally can't sustain themselves and move to a free to play model. So where are all these millions of players? Because they're not playing the games that you seem to approve of.

    If that's the majority talking then I think it's quite evident they don't approve of the way MMO's have gone.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by UsualSuspect

    What millions are these then? The millions in WoW? Because that's the only one with a high subscriber base. The other MMO's, the solo based MMO's that apparently millions of MMO players want, are failing one after the other, struggling to keep subscribers until they finally can't sustain themselves and move to a free to play model. So where are all these millions of players? Because they're not playing the games that you seem to approve of.

    If that's the majority talking then I think it's quite evident they don't approve of the way MMO's have gone.

    The only reason MMOs are failing is because there are too damn many of them, there just aren't enough players to go around to make all of them financially viable.  Developers need to stop making so many.  It's like any other product, there is supply and demand and when the supply exceeds the demand, product lines die.  Unfortunately, self-control and MMO development just don't go together at the moment.

    And the millions are all the people who collectively play MMOs, whatever game they might play, if they play any at all at the moment.  Grouping, especially forced grouping, is wholly out of fashion at the moment.  If you want it back, prove to developers that a significant portion of the total community not only want it, but would pay to get it.

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