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Originally posted by TheJoda ........yes there needs to be risks to enjoy the rewards or over all emersion in games. Like in EQ 1 my necro would get /wispers " can you summon my corpse?" that helped build game community, which games LACK now!
I loved those parts of true EQ (as in pre PoP expansion) also.
Necros for just that , you'd have bard taxi parties to run groups to far off spots , druid and wizard teleports to other locations etc ,
I left EQ because they slowly got rid of the virtual world feeling of the game , not because it was "too hard".
It become too unfun , too unlike it was at launch after PoP and went down from there for me.
Originally posted by whiteoak21 I really want EQnext to be like eq1 but better. I'm a big fan of punishing death in mmorpg and i really like when our body stayed on the ground. It increase the feeling of fear that i think is essential in a good immersive game. i know a lot of people don't like it because you can lose your body and all your stuff. maybe they should return your corp's after 1 month or make you lose only your accesory (rings,necklace,...) my top punishing game are (eq1,UO,legend of kesmai,realm of the mad god) what are you thinking of punishing death?
Actually, I don't play games to be in fear, I play them to have fun. Odd concept, that one.
Harsh death mechanics are a terrible idea for a variety of good reasons.
- not fun for people who are sane
- discourages exploration
- discourages experimentation
- discourages grouping
What bothers me most in MMORPGs these days is the solo emphasis and lack of grouping opportunities. You wanna talk original EQ? Talk about forced grouping making players play well, behave, and worry about and develop a good reputation since if you couldn't get groups, you didn't level. Period.
I would never want to return to the boring days of camp and grind and forced grouping, but I WOULD like to see MMORPGs be more about grouping and less about solo ez-mode, which IMO, leads to lots of brats and poor players. I would like to see MUCH more group content and grouping potential.
We'll never get to a point where grouping is encouraged and more optional group content is viable with harsh death penalties, because nobody wants to group if there's a risk of losing xp and/or gear due to someone else screwing up. It's critical to have tolertable death penalties to encourage grouping.
Harsh death penalties are akin to a kick in the nuts. Do you really need to be kicked in the nuts to enjoy your game? If you do, I sure hope you're the minority.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Cecropia Originally posted by nariusseldon "real" accomplishment in a game? You are beating pixels. It is about whether it is fun or not. If i want real accomplishment, i will work another hour to do more work. The only thing that is close to real accomplishments in games is e-sports. Other stuff is just artificial psychological drivers to entertain.
For many of us, which appears to be a growing number, overly easy breezy mmos are simply not fun. Fun is why we're all here, a fact that seems to elude you from reading your posts. There are certain types of people that are not as easy to entertain. More power to you though that you're finding such a vast sea of fun with the genre's current crop of titles. I guess it's almost like having a very low tolerance for alcohol; in the end it's nothing but a win win.
If you need a game to be impossible, time-consuming, and requiring huge commitment to be fun, i think you are out of step with the mainstream consumers. Thus, that is the reason why you are complaining here, instead of enjoying the greatest latest game.
(And jsut in case you ask, i usually post when i am bored at work. Thus, you see me less in the evening when i am actually playing the games i talked about).
You are correct that the market hasent been in our favor these last what, 7 years? Most in part to WOWs huge success. With that said. The market as infact started to show signs that people are looking for something else. A modern MMos life span isent very long. a few short months if.
Our lack of a quality MMO is huge reason why we complaine here ther is no question about that. But perhaps all the bitching and complaing over the years and the long term success of modern MMOs will start to slide the bar back to our side again.
With games like EQN, AA, EoC, DF UHW, BD, WarZ, Salem and so on and so on, The future is looking up for us.
Originally posted by Dahkot72 Originally posted by TheJoda ........yes there needs to be risks to enjoy the rewards or over all emersion in games. Like in EQ 1 my necro would get /wispers " can you summon my corpse?" that helped build game community, which games LACK now!
all of this x10
i want either a harsh death penalty or a very long leveling curve, im sick of mmorpg that i finish faster then my single player games.
I am pretty much done with this genre unless something change. I have playd it for 10 years and should't realy complain, but i can't help it though. When i finish my mmorpg faster then my single person games, i feel the main draw of this genre is over.
edit : Since wow i cant remeber the last game i playd past the 30 free days, i did sub an extra month to Tsw but since i never log in after doeing so i dont count it.
Originally posted by xAPOCx Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Cecropia Originally posted by nariusseldon "real" accomplishment in a game? You are beating pixels. It is about whether it is fun or not. If i want real accomplishment, i will work another hour to do more work. The only thing that is close to real accomplishments in games is e-sports. Other stuff is just artificial psychological drivers to entertain.
quality is in the eye of the beholder. Anything that requires "wasting" 20 min to walk/talk before i can run a dungeon (or whatever the core gameplay is) is bad design to me ... and i am sure you have a different opinion.
I doubt the mainstream games are going to require people to commit their lives before it is fun. If you look at the big successes like LOL, it is all about jump in, and have fun fast.
However, the market is big. And there are smaller effort to give somethign different. Even point and click adventures are making a come back (like the Walking Dead Adv games).
Personally, i won't play a game that can't be played on my schedule, and fulfill my need for entertainment. However, i do wish you find what you are looking for.
I miss DAoC
Originally posted by xAPOCx Originally posted by Vorthanion Originally posted by CalmOceans Originally posted by ice-vortex Yet games that are considered unsuccessful have more subscribers than Everquest ever had.
What games are that? EQ had 600k subscribers after the game was about 4 years old, concurrent users, not total, total it runs in the millions.
Which 4 year old games have 600k subscribers? Not many.
Which games still have 12 servers after 11 years? Not many.
GW2 probably doesn't even exist anymore in 11 years.
SoE released stats in their 10 year anniversiry video, 12 million characters were created in EQ.
60,000 people applied for beta
You can say a lot of stuff about EQ, that you didn't like the death penalty, that you didn't like the gameplay, claiming it wasn't successful just makes you ignorant.
EQ was the most successful MMO at the time, not UO, not Lineage, not AC, not DAOC, it wasn't until WOW came out that a game surpassed EQ in subscribers. What's more, those WoW designers were EQ players.
Nice padding of the numbers. They reached 450K at peak around 2003. They went through more than 1.5 million subscibers, but lost the majority of them due to harsh gameplay. Enter a more casual EQ2 to catch those gamers who couldn't stand how hardcore most of the Original EQ was. EQ still has a pretty strong following, estimations would seem to be below the 100k mark. Keep in mind that you now have an EQ with no corpse runs as you can summon your corpse with NPC's at the guild lobby so you can use a resurrection spell for some XP return and you don't leave loot on the corpses anymore either. You have a huge teleport hub in the Plane of Knowledge, so travel is incredibly easy and fast. You now have mercenaries that let you solo to your heart's content. Potions for everything and the list goes on. So, tell me, what exactly is it about this game that helps retain players when most of the hardcore, time wasting mechanics are gone?
Wrong. It lost them to other games such as daoc/wow/eve.
Wrong, they were bleeding subs long before DAoC / WoW and Eve was even more hardcore, so that argument doesn't make sense. DAoC came out in 2002 and never peaked above 250K subscriptions. WoW didn't release till 2004 and it released a couple of weeks after EQ2. EQ's peak subscriptions were reached in 2003 and according to a statement made by Smedly when asked why they were making EQ2, he had said that by the time the original EQ peaked in 2003, more than 1.5 million players had tried the game, but they could never retain more than 450k, so that combined with DAoC's low numbers would completely disprove your comment. They lost a lot more subs once EQ2 released, but had been hemmorhaging long before that. Once WoW came along, casuals had their first real game to call home and all bets were off at that point.
I love a good death penalty, but the game has to be fun to play, most of the games you list are just utter crap. Hard to say Sony will stay in business long enough to publish EQNext. So the future actually looks pretty dismal. Hopefully someone will buy SOE and keep EQnext.