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What happend to good old fashion PvP?

PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Denison, TXPosts: 576Member Uncommon

What happend to this? People all want progression or some title. What happend to just being better than the guy on the other side of the computer screen? What happend to good old fashion ass woopins? When did MMO's become so Vain?

Will it ever go back to "Hey, see this name above my avatars head? Yeah he just kicked your ass."

I wish people would just PvP for the sake of PvP'ing like in the old days. PvP to kill people. Thats it. Thats the whole entire point and always has been. Is that not enough for you people anymore or what?

Comments

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    What are these older times you are talking about? even in days of UO players used to kill each other so that they can loot their bodies. It has always been about loot and getting somethong out of the kill.
  • PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Denison, TXPosts: 576Member Uncommon

    Nothing wrong with a little bit of loot. I"m talking about all those people that say "Oh whats the point of the PvP in XYZ game. Theres just no point!! All we do is fight each other for nothing!!" Well YEAH thats what PvP is.

    You fight each other to fight each other. PvP = Player vs Player

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    I do PvP for the sake of it all the time. A little loot and XP doesn't hurt, but I've never engaged in PvP just for the loot and XP. Progression is entirely secondary. It adds some addictive qualities to the game, but I've always played games only because of the fun. And I stop playing games that are no longer fun.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon

    I hate PvP gear grinding..  WoW did that, Rift did that... I like to PvP for a purpose.. That propose can be for 1 of 2 reasons;

    1. Earn reputation points, the same you as you earn in PvE, so you're able to buy reputation gear, and I would increase the gear on the vendor list as well..  I really dislike having to grind to earn 2 seperate sets of gear for no reason..
    2. Gain factional resources or territory, like Wintergrasp in WoW.. 
    I stopped PvP'ing when it became nothing more then a seperate esport game of itself..   If I wanted that type of game, i'd go play Call of Duty (which I don't)..
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Rydeson

    I hate PvP gear grinding..  WoW did that, Rift did that... I like to PvP for a purpose.. That propose can be for 1 of 2 reasons;

    1. Earn reputation points, the same you as you earn in PvE, so you're able to buy reputation gear, and I would increase the gear on the vendor list as well..  I really dislike having to grind to earn 2 seperate sets of gear for no reason..
    2. Gain factional resources or territory, like Wintergrasp in WoW.. 
    I stopped PvP'ing when it became nothing more then a seperate esport game of itself..   If I wanted that type of game, i'd go play Call of Duty (which I don't)..

    FPS e-sports and RPG e-sports is not the same thing. Remeber, there's different kind of conventional sports too and for example football and soccer are not the same either.

    "Why don't you go play CoD instead" is not very intelligent thing to say. Not that you said it, but some people do.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,757Member Uncommon

    PvP has gameplay elements which are not easymode. So it is getting pushed out of MMO's or getting an easymode makeover. So no penalties, you lose nothing, you can die a million times in one day and you just spring back. Likewise if you have guild wars or faction wars the penalties to losing are being ironed out.

    The answer is in your question, "old fashion"; every new MMO has to be easy enough to play that a toddler can play it and streamlined enough so that one hours play yields big rewards. Not rewards in the old sense but rewards in the shiny bauble, new title, new cosmetic outfit sense.

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Rydeson

    I hate PvP gear grinding..  WoW did that, Rift did that... I like to PvP for a purpose.. That propose can be for 1 of 2 reasons;

    1. Earn reputation points, the same you as you earn in PvE, so you're able to buy reputation gear, and I would increase the gear on the vendor list as well..  I really dislike having to grind to earn 2 seperate sets of gear for no reason..
    2. Gain factional resources or territory, like Wintergrasp in WoW.. 
    I stopped PvP'ing when it became nothing more then a seperate esport game of itself..   If I wanted that type of game, i'd go play Call of Duty (which I don't)..

    FPS e-sports and RPG e-sports is not the same thing. Remeber, there's different kind of conventional sports too and for example football and soccer are not the same either.

    "Why don't you go play CoD instead" is not very intelligent thing to say. Not that you said it, but some people do.

    I'm sorry.. but e-sport is e-sport regardless how you view it..  It is the same..  The only difference being twitch control or computer control combat..  The result is still the same..  "I beat you na na na neener"..  followed by the immature tea bag emote on the corpse.. :) lol  I play MMORGP because I come from the genre of the community against the devs.. NOT the current style of community against themselves.. 

    This almost reminds me of modern day politics.. Lets get the voters to fight amongst themselves, then neither side will see how lazy the politians are at doing their jobs.. LOL 

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    I'm sorry.. but e-sport is e-sport regardless how you view it..  It is the same..  The only difference being twitch control or computer control combat..  The result is still the same..  "I beat you na na na neener"..  followed by the immature tea bag emote on the corpse.. :) lol  I play MMORGP because I come from the genre of the community against the devs.. NOT the current style of community against themselves.. 

    This almost reminds me of modern day politics.. Lets get the voters to fight amongst themselves, then neither side will see how lazy the politians are at doing their jobs.. LOL 

    Well, I can only say its not the same, but I don't want to get into the business of changing your mind mod edit]

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 543Member
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    What happend to this? People all want progression or some title. What happend to just being better than the guy on the other side of the computer screen? What happend to good old fashion ass woopins? When did MMO's become so Vain?Will it ever go back to "Hey, see this name above my avatars head? Yeah he just kicked your ass."I wish people would just PvP for the sake of PvP'ing like in the old days. PvP to kill people. Thats it. Thats the whole entire point and always has been. Is that not enough for you people anymore or what?

     



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    The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

    -The MMO Forum Community

  • MurdusMurdus bayville, NYPosts: 698Member
    You should play Darkfall:UW on November 20th. Its designed around full loot PvP. You kill people there in order to not lose your stuff. Or to gain a new clan city. Or because you hate that clan and just want to kill him. Or because you want this trader to die because he ripped you off, so you set up an ambush.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Remember when PKs didn't involve any kind of substantial reward?

    Oh, wait, op said "old fashion" pvp, I thought...neber mind.

    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    When did MMO's become so Vain?

    The usual answer involves teenage males and posturing behaviors.  But it's a little simplistic.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • SalengerSalenger Pottageville, ONPosts: 521Member
    I suggest you play Darkfall Unholy Wars on the 20th.
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    People never "just killed eachother", there was always a bigger system in place. In Meridian 59, in UO, and even in DAoC.

    Just killing eachother is fo FPS games, generally.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    There's two systems that work - the daoc approach, successfully used by planetside and to a lesser degree gw2

    The uo / eve approach successfully done by perpetuum, ac pvp server and I guess darkfall though I never played it.

    All other mmo pvp just has varying degrees of suck. From sucks a bit (war, aion) to sucks a lot (WOW) to you should be paying me to play this shit (swtor)

    Not played either lineage or shadowbane, so can't say with them.
  • IfrianMMOIfrianMMO BarcelonaPosts: 212Member

    It died the moment PVE players decided they wanted to play PVP focused games/servers and then bitched about how they did not like it as it potentially made their obtaining shiny "you are awesome" reward screens slower, and devs listened to them because they brought the bulk of the $.

    image
  • negativf4kknegativf4kk WorthingPosts: 377Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by IfrianMMO

    It died the moment PVE players decided they wanted to play PVP focused games/servers and then bitched about how they did not like it as it potentially made their obtaining shiny "you are awesome" reward screens slower, and devs listened to them because they brought the bulk of the $.

    And also when devs invented cash-shops and realised that they cam make $$$$$$ on PvP players more then on PvE. That lead to any semi decent pvp-game to become pay to win.

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    What happend to this? People all want progression or some title. What happend to just being better than the guy on the other side of the computer screen? What happend to good old fashion ass woopins? When did MMO's become so Vain?

    Will it ever go back to "Hey, see this name above my avatars head? Yeah he just kicked your ass."

    I wish people would just PvP for the sake of PvP'ing like in the old days. PvP to kill people. Thats it. Thats the whole entire point and always has been. Is that not enough for you people anymore or what?

    No. Never like to just kill people for fun.

  • PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Denison, TXPosts: 576Member Uncommon
    Sorry but the original Darkfall was just 10/10 for SUCK. I highly doubt this new one will be any different.
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC
    Sorry but the original Darkfall was just 10/10 for SUCK. I highly doubt this new one will be any different.

    Care to back up that claim? Its one of the best MMOs to release in thee last 8 years, but thats not saying a lot.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    There does need to be something won or lost.  It doesn't have to be gear or titles.  I prefer territory conquest and resource control.

    Without some motivation the game is just a never ending death match where nobody keeps score.  It might be fun for a few days but it will get old really fast.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by dave6660

    There does need to be something won or lost.  It doesn't have to be gear or titles.  I prefer territory conquest and resource control.

    Without some motivation the game is just a never ending death match where nobody keeps score.  It might be fun for a few days but it will get old really fast.

    That is why progression is important. Obviously that works as an movitation.

  • EdeusEdeus Stamford, CTPosts: 506Member

    PvP in an MMO?  Hah!

     

    What gear you and your opponent has equipped will effect the outcome.  Then there's the rock < paper < scissors nature of the class interaction that effects the outcomes.  Your "skill" will effect the outcome, but the gear and class interaction are enough to help unskilled newbies win as well.

     

    How many people actually want a completely fair fight vs how many people just want to face roll other players and call themselves skilled...

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