There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Originally posted by Ramonski7 These games cannot get enough return from offering signed CE copies @ $800 a pop anymore, I mean you actually have to produce a product. No now they want cash with no commitment and no product so they can show investors that they now have 4 million so they can get another 4 mill from them to live like kings for 7 years while they slowly work on their special baby... no thanks. Deliver a product and i'll deliver the cash.
Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. At least not any more. If you are happy to keep being fed WoW clones and other such, you are more than welcome to stick to the formula thats produces them. I'm more than willing to risk some money on the off chance that we might get something different. If you aren't, thats entirely up to you. But then don't complain when what we see produced is what publishers/investors think will make them the most money.
I can understand if you think that on the surface, industry is littered with shit. Gold sinks, shit floats in water. So if you want to take the easy way out, by all means keep skimming the surface. I'll head down below and search hard for what I want. And if that means I have to research more or dive a little deeper to find it, then I'll do just that. But for me, this is a hobby not a political race. I liken myself as a voter, not a superPAC. I'm not throwing my money behind something hoping to hit it big. Especially not behind a pseudo mmo. So I'll keep using my money to find what I like and you can use yours to pay someone to hopefully make it for you. Funny thing is is that if they do make a awesome game we're both winners! I would have just paid less than you. Like I said I'm always willing to pay for a good game.
But truth be told, I'm quite happy investing a month or two from one game to another and enjoying them for what they are. Not looking for a deeper meaning of how the suits of the genre don't understand me anymore.
I'm not a vet
I'm not a jaded gamer
I'm not a sheeple
I'm not a old schooler
I'm not a WoWer
I'm a gamer and a mmo fan. Nothing more, nothing less.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I played WC games back in the 80s/90s. But knowing how to make a game then, does not necessarily means knowig how to do it now.
Look at Richard Garret .. he has done nothing good after ultima.
And why should anyone pay for a promise of a game? If the game is released, i will take a look at the reviews or demo.
And the point about paying for bad movies/games is just silly. That can be avoided by reading reviews and/or playing demos. I have not spent money on a bad movie or a bad game for a long long time.
There is so much entertainment out there that simply there is no need to pay for promises, no matter who is doing the promising.
I actually like the idea of kickstarter for some projects, and I've even supported kickstarted game development.
However when I had time to think the whole thing through I realized just how blatantly dishonest, disrespectful, and greedy the whole process really is.
If you want to fund game developement there are already legitimate means of financial backing in place, investors, business loans, IPO's.. the problem with those options is those sources get a peice of the pie.. a return on investment.
Kickstarter allows the real disqusting purely greedy a means to keep all the pie for themselves at the same time deceiving gullible under-educated gamers into feeling like they are part of the team, a crucial critical part of the team.
If these game devs werent the most greedy crustaceans walking on two legs, instead of selling you your name on some in-game monument, they would be selling you investor shares, or a peice of the pie.
4 million dollars... ?
And here I was thinking people that come on sharktank asking for $ 100,000 for 5% of a company worthy $500,000 were greedy.
I understand many of the people skepticism over here, bu I made this post because I would love to see a true AAA space sim with this features come true.
We could all debate theories the mechanics of funding but in the end it comes down to this.
- Publishers aren't willing to invest in AAA space sims. And there are plenty of articles talking about this.
There's a reason publishers aren't willing to invest in space sims for an mmo. It will not sell well, it will not turn enough profit for them to invest money in it, so why bother. Just because a few people would love to see it as an mmo, doesn't mean they will make it a good one. Begging for money to make an mmo, with promises, always makes me suspiscious. I mean, we already have AAA companies with mmos that have came out the past few years promising the world and then not delivering on it, what's to make us think a handful of people with a new mmo project begging for money are going to be an mmo savior for us all?
Big fan of his game series but this smells like he is unemployable/fundable. With such a name whats behind the record where he can't get an infusion of venture?
He is neither unemployable nor unfundable. In fact, EA approached him and he turned them down! He is in touch with private investors and their term was a simple one: raise 2 million from the crowd so that we can determine the interest in your project and we will found your endeavor. You can find all the info you need at robertsspaceindustries.com Check it out and you'll see that mr. Roberts means business.
In otherwords raise the real value of your company to 2 million so we can get to the valuation we need to be able to make our risk negligible because we are greedy chits as well and want all the reward without any of the risks.
Wait what?
Are you saying that it's an intelligent thing for an investment company not to mitigate risks? Are you aware that an invesmtent company invests the money of individual shareholders who will either gain or lose depending on the investments that company makes?
Wouldn't you want any company you invest in to do the same?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I was about to pledge and help them, but then I realized two thing.
First, the "persistant universe" mechanism they intend to make is quite far from what I was expecting. Basically, it's not a persistent world, its a matchmaking system. You are a trader - someone is a pirate - it puts you up in the same instance so the pirate can hunt you down. I know now much details have been released so far, but this sounds like a hugely beneficial system to the pirates, not to the traders. If I want to avoid combat I should be able to, automatic instancing sounds cheezy.
Second, I looked at the release dates. Alpha in a year, beta in a year and a half, persistant universe in I believe 30 months. I'm all about backing projects, but we are talking years here, I don't even know if I'll have the time to play online games by that time.
Maybe if they ask for more money when the release dates are a bit closer in the future, I might change my mind.
I understand many of the people skepticism over here, bu I made this post because I would love to see a true AAA space sim with this features come true.
We could all debate theories the mechanics of funding but in the end it comes down to this.
- Publishers aren't willing to invest in AAA space sims. And there are plenty of articles talking about this.
So question is. Where do people go if they have a cool project but can't get support from big companies?
- Most crowdfunding projects have one problem. They have little to show.
At least Chris made the effort of creating a tech demo to show what he wants to do. A real-time in engine tech demo. There are plenty of interviews and game footage. He has shown the physics engine working. The landing and launching of a ship. And all that. That tech demo was made by a very small team that invested their own free time and money.
- Mentioning how Chirs Roberts Wing Commander movie sucked leads to nothing. He was/is a great game developer but Wing Commander was his first big screen movie. And he did a bad job. You can be a great game developer and a bad movie director. Nothing wrong with that. But if people want to discuss his career in the movies then they should also mention his successes. He was the producer of great movies such as Lord Of War and Lucky Number Slevin. And you just need to look at his IMDB page to know more about his movie career. Wing Commander was NOT the only hollywood project he was in. IT simply was his first.
We pay $10 to watch a movie in the cinema that sometimes suck (wing commander :P)
We buy games that cost a lot and that well..suck.
This guy has a proven track record making great games. Every single Wing Commander game under his wing was a success.
And as far as doing groundbreaking stuff, let me put it this way. Chris was the first game developer to create a multiplayer online universe set in space with real-time combat. And you can check the game yourself to see how good it was/is. So much so that people are still actively playing that game this days. And there are multiple mods created for Freelancer.
Chris and his team, are doing a great job answering the community questions. If you have any question just send them an email and they will answer.
If you think their lieing than how would they have the support of companies like Alienware, NVIDIA, Oculus and Logitech?
They're even working closly with Crytek since their using their engine. They have bought a CryEngine license and that doesn't come out cheap.
Yes this companies have seen their tech demo and have offered some of their products as prices for the community. We all know no company wants their name tied to vaporware.
They are in their first year. Obviously they can't show you a full game because there is none. And obviously they can't work on a multi-million $ project without initial funding to pay the developer wages.
But if there is crowdfunding project you can trust, it's this one.
With Chris track record and past successes he doesn't need any money from any of us. He is a rich man already.
Obviously not rich enough to fund a game like this all alone. He would be insane. He is doing this because he trully wants to bring a new AAA space sim.
Simple question for you:
Why not treat the fans with the same level of respect that other investors get? Give them shares of the company for their money. This way it truly IS an investment and they can actually hope to see profit if the project comes through?
I am a HUGE fan of WingCommander and somewhere around here I have the original box signed by Chris Roberts and the hat that came with it. That said, he is not in this as a not for profit entity. He is in this to make money. That money is going to come from fans... so it has now been taken to a whole new level where he wants fans to donate money so he can make more money from fans.
Nope.
Give us a share of the possible eventual profits and I am all ears though. Then at least I am an investor in a business and not donating to a for profit charity.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I understand many of the people skepticism over here, bu I made this post because I would love to see a true AAA space sim with this features come true.
We could all debate theories the mechanics of funding but in the end it comes down to this.
- Publishers aren't willing to invest in AAA space sims. And there are plenty of articles talking about this.
So question is. Where do people go if they have a cool project but can't get support from big companies?
- Most crowdfunding projects have one problem. They have little to show.
At least Chris made the effort of creating a tech demo to show what he wants to do. A real-time in engine tech demo. There are plenty of interviews and game footage. He has shown the physics engine working. The landing and launching of a ship. And all that. That tech demo was made by a very small team that invested their own free time and money.
- Mentioning how Chirs Roberts Wing Commander movie sucked leads to nothing. He was/is a great game developer but Wing Commander was his first big screen movie. And he did a bad job. You can be a great game developer and a bad movie director. Nothing wrong with that. But if people want to discuss his career in the movies then they should also mention his successes. He was the producer of great movies such as Lord Of War and Lucky Number Slevin. And you just need to look at his IMDB page to know more about his movie career. Wing Commander was NOT the only hollywood project he was in. IT simply was his first.
We pay $10 to watch a movie in the cinema that sometimes suck (wing commander :P)
We buy games that cost a lot and that well..suck.
This guy has a proven track record making great games. Every single Wing Commander game under his wing was a success.
And as far as doing groundbreaking stuff, let me put it this way. Chris was the first game developer to create a multiplayer online universe set in space with real-time combat. And you can check the game yourself to see how good it was/is. So much so that people are still actively playing that game this days. And there are multiple mods created for Freelancer.
Chris and his team, are doing a great job answering the community questions. If you have any question just send them an email and they will answer.
If you think their lieing than how would they have the support of companies like Alienware, NVIDIA, Oculus and Logitech?
They're even working closly with Crytek since their using their engine. They have bought a CryEngine license and that doesn't come out cheap.
Yes this companies have seen their tech demo and have offered some of their products as prices for the community. We all know no company wants their name tied to vaporware.
They are in their first year. Obviously they can't show you a full game because there is none. And obviously they can't work on a multi-million $ project without initial funding to pay the developer wages.
But if there is crowdfunding project you can trust, it's this one.
With Chris track record and past successes he doesn't need any money from any of us. He is a rich man already.
Obviously not rich enough to fund a game like this all alone. He would be insane. He is doing this because he trully wants to bring a new AAA space sim.
Simple question for you:
Why not treat the fans with the same level of respect that other investors get? Give them shares of the company for their money. This way it truly IS an investment and they can actually hope to see profit if the project comes through?
I am a HUGE fan of WingCommander and somewhere around here I have the original box signed by Chris Roberts and the hat that came with it. That said, he is not in this as a not for profit entity. He is in this to make money. That money is going to come from fans... so it has now been taken to a whole new level where he wants fans to donate money so he can make more money from fans.
Nope.
Give us a share of the possible eventual profits and I am all ears though. Then at least I am an investor in a business and not donating to a for profit charity.
Normally, I'm not at all interested in investing in game companies. They tend to be high risk investments at best. But I will support a game that I find interesting and hope that it turns out to be entertaining. If you are happy with the games that the suits keep cranking out, then more power to you.
But at this time I'm much more interested in seeing what Chris Roberts can come up with. Its a matter of marginal utility. I value the possibility of getting a good game out of this, more than I do the money I used to support it. If it doesn't work out, at least I tried, and I'm not out that much at all.
I understand many of the people skepticism over here, bu I made this post because I would love to see a true AAA space sim with this features come true.
We could all debate theories the mechanics of funding but in the end it comes down to this.
- Publishers aren't willing to invest in AAA space sims. And there are plenty of articles talking about this.
So question is. Where do people go if they have a cool project but can't get support from big companies?
- Most crowdfunding projects have one problem. They have little to show.
At least Chris made the effort of creating a tech demo to show what he wants to do. A real-time in engine tech demo. There are plenty of interviews and game footage. He has shown the physics engine working. The landing and launching of a ship. And all that. That tech demo was made by a very small team that invested their own free time and money.
- Mentioning how Chirs Roberts Wing Commander movie sucked leads to nothing. He was/is a great game developer but Wing Commander was his first big screen movie. And he did a bad job. You can be a great game developer and a bad movie director. Nothing wrong with that. But if people want to discuss his career in the movies then they should also mention his successes. He was the producer of great movies such as Lord Of War and Lucky Number Slevin. And you just need to look at his IMDB page to know more about his movie career. Wing Commander was NOT the only hollywood project he was in. IT simply was his first.
We pay $10 to watch a movie in the cinema that sometimes suck (wing commander :P)
We buy games that cost a lot and that well..suck.
This guy has a proven track record making great games. Every single Wing Commander game under his wing was a success.
And as far as doing groundbreaking stuff, let me put it this way. Chris was the first game developer to create a multiplayer online universe set in space with real-time combat. And you can check the game yourself to see how good it was/is. So much so that people are still actively playing that game this days. And there are multiple mods created for Freelancer.
Chris and his team, are doing a great job answering the community questions. If you have any question just send them an email and they will answer.
If you think their lieing than how would they have the support of companies like Alienware, NVIDIA, Oculus and Logitech?
They're even working closly with Crytek since their using their engine. They have bought a CryEngine license and that doesn't come out cheap.
Yes this companies have seen their tech demo and have offered some of their products as prices for the community. We all know no company wants their name tied to vaporware.
They are in their first year. Obviously they can't show you a full game because there is none. And obviously they can't work on a multi-million $ project without initial funding to pay the developer wages.
But if there is crowdfunding project you can trust, it's this one.
With Chris track record and past successes he doesn't need any money from any of us. He is a rich man already.
Obviously not rich enough to fund a game like this all alone. He would be insane. He is doing this because he trully wants to bring a new AAA space sim.
Simple question for you:
Why not treat the fans with the same level of respect that other investors get? Give them shares of the company for their money. This way it truly IS an investment and they can actually hope to see profit if the project comes through?
I am a HUGE fan of WingCommander and somewhere around here I have the original box signed by Chris Roberts and the hat that came with it. That said, he is not in this as a not for profit entity. He is in this to make money. That money is going to come from fans... so it has now been taken to a whole new level where he wants fans to donate money so he can make more money from fans.
Nope.
Give us a share of the possible eventual profits and I am all ears though. Then at least I am an investor in a business and not donating to a for profit charity.
I paid $60 and I get a game out of the deal. I also get Alpha and Beta access out of the same deal. This is a much better deal than I get from Game Stop, Walmart or any other game retailer. Sure I have to wait a little while but with Chris Roberts at the helm there will be a game after the wait I'm sure. In reality I'm getting the best ROI on this game than any of the thousands of games I've purchased in the past. If the game is bad or if it doesn't get made I'm out no less than some of the stinkers I've payed the same amount in the past for. Sure there is some risk but it's one that is worth it in my opinion as there is risk in any investment.
I waiting to see some of these kickstarter games get released so I can get a better idea of general quality before I invest anything. I am interested in this project though. As well as the return of shadowrun and the obsidian RPG, so I hope these game turn out well.
Comments
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I can understand if you think that on the surface, industry is littered with shit. Gold sinks, shit floats in water. So if you want to take the easy way out, by all means keep skimming the surface. I'll head down below and search hard for what I want. And if that means I have to research more or dive a little deeper to find it, then I'll do just that. But for me, this is a hobby not a political race. I liken myself as a voter, not a superPAC. I'm not throwing my money behind something hoping to hit it big. Especially not behind a pseudo mmo. So I'll keep using my money to find what I like and you can use yours to pay someone to hopefully make it for you. Funny thing is is that if they do make a awesome game we're both winners! I would have just paid less than you. Like I said I'm always willing to pay for a good game.
But truth be told, I'm quite happy investing a month or two from one game to another and enjoying them for what they are. Not looking for a deeper meaning of how the suits of the genre don't understand me anymore.
I'm a gamer and a mmo fan. Nothing more, nothing less.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I played WC games back in the 80s/90s. But knowing how to make a game then, does not necessarily means knowig how to do it now.
Look at Richard Garret .. he has done nothing good after ultima.
And why should anyone pay for a promise of a game? If the game is released, i will take a look at the reviews or demo.
And the point about paying for bad movies/games is just silly. That can be avoided by reading reviews and/or playing demos. I have not spent money on a bad movie or a bad game for a long long time.
There is so much entertainment out there that simply there is no need to pay for promises, no matter who is doing the promising.
Well said.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
There's a reason publishers aren't willing to invest in space sims for an mmo. It will not sell well, it will not turn enough profit for them to invest money in it, so why bother. Just because a few people would love to see it as an mmo, doesn't mean they will make it a good one. Begging for money to make an mmo, with promises, always makes me suspiscious. I mean, we already have AAA companies with mmos that have came out the past few years promising the world and then not delivering on it, what's to make us think a handful of people with a new mmo project begging for money are going to be an mmo savior for us all?
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Wait what?
Are you saying that it's an intelligent thing for an investment company not to mitigate risks? Are you aware that an invesmtent company invests the money of individual shareholders who will either gain or lose depending on the investments that company makes?
Wouldn't you want any company you invest in to do the same?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I was about to pledge and help them, but then I realized two thing.
First, the "persistant universe" mechanism they intend to make is quite far from what I was expecting. Basically, it's not a persistent world, its a matchmaking system. You are a trader - someone is a pirate - it puts you up in the same instance so the pirate can hunt you down. I know now much details have been released so far, but this sounds like a hugely beneficial system to the pirates, not to the traders. If I want to avoid combat I should be able to, automatic instancing sounds cheezy.
Second, I looked at the release dates. Alpha in a year, beta in a year and a half, persistant universe in I believe 30 months. I'm all about backing projects, but we are talking years here, I don't even know if I'll have the time to play online games by that time.
Maybe if they ask for more money when the release dates are a bit closer in the future, I might change my mind.
Simple question for you:
Why not treat the fans with the same level of respect that other investors get? Give them shares of the company for their money. This way it truly IS an investment and they can actually hope to see profit if the project comes through?
I am a HUGE fan of WingCommander and somewhere around here I have the original box signed by Chris Roberts and the hat that came with it. That said, he is not in this as a not for profit entity. He is in this to make money. That money is going to come from fans... so it has now been taken to a whole new level where he wants fans to donate money so he can make more money from fans.
Nope.
Give us a share of the possible eventual profits and I am all ears though. Then at least I am an investor in a business and not donating to a for profit charity.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Normally, I'm not at all interested in investing in game companies. They tend to be high risk investments at best. But I will support a game that I find interesting and hope that it turns out to be entertaining. If you are happy with the games that the suits keep cranking out, then more power to you.
But at this time I'm much more interested in seeing what Chris Roberts can come up with. Its a matter of marginal utility. I value the possibility of getting a good game out of this, more than I do the money I used to support it. If it doesn't work out, at least I tried, and I'm not out that much at all.
I paid $60 and I get a game out of the deal. I also get Alpha and Beta access out of the same deal. This is a much better deal than I get from Game Stop, Walmart or any other game retailer. Sure I have to wait a little while but with Chris Roberts at the helm there will be a game after the wait I'm sure. In reality I'm getting the best ROI on this game than any of the thousands of games I've purchased in the past. If the game is bad or if it doesn't get made I'm out no less than some of the stinkers I've payed the same amount in the past for. Sure there is some risk but it's one that is worth it in my opinion as there is risk in any investment.
Bren
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