I really doubt that is the reason. I am quite sure that the real downfall was poor support post release and snail speed at which they were churning out content.
Guys... you cannot churn out content fast enough. It is the core problem of themepark games that rely on scripted instanced content.
Trion did it so yes it can be done.
Trion does not rely solely on singleplayer instanced storylines. Nor have they been very successful, they've had to merge servers more than twice.
Compared to SWTOR i would say thye have been very successful with their regular content updates. As far as single player storylines are concerned, SWTOR can only blame themselves for that. Trion recovered all their investment and even made profit on top of that after one year of release and now they are releasing a huge expansion. Where is SWTOR in that regards?
But they did do a rakghoul event sadly more open world stuff like that didn't follow
The hardcore main focus on storytelling is the devil!!
They built planet maps and buildings around the stories. They went like, "ok we have these stories, now which set pieces do we need."
Like a freakin movie set list.
They did NOT have this approach:
"Let's build fantastic and vibrant Star Wars worlds with amazing gameplay mechanics and top it off with great stories."
The hardcore story/voiceover focus ruined the game. I feel enlightened.
Well said. I think it was how many of us felt (though not because of the hardcore story / voiceover, but because they dictated a set rather than adding depth to an otherwise already vibrant world-- which they failed to ever create).
Of what I played, the story was garbage, completely unlike previous KOTORs and the gameplay to get from one part of the story to the next was tedius and dull. That's what was wrong. Just because they attempted to make a good story based mmo doesn't mean they succeeded in that regard. Rather they failed at everything.
What went wrong was the story. Once you hit 50 and finished you class quests you were done. That is way to much like single player. They built all the crap around the story. So when you rolled an alt well you had to do it all over again, it became boring and you quit.
Honestly nothing can bring me back at this point, you could add 30 planets, they all felt plastic and lifeless.
Originally posted by Ahnog I think the stories are the best part of the game.
Agreed and that is why I liked it. Others were expecting SWG2,
I've never played SWG, not even a trial. What I was expecting? I was expecting something fun. I was expecting a game world that would draw me in. I was expecting something along the lines of KOTOR. What I got was a static, boring, wow-in-space clone that couldn't keep a playerbase and quickly ended up a ghost town.
The problem is Star Wars is about worlds and the freedom of movement in it, even in the movies.
Swtor didn't provide worlds. What they provided are instances with boundaries.
Story is not the problem. It is the fact that they built worlds based on story, instead of story for the worlds was the issue here (as someone mentioned before) - because doing it this way kills the sense of immersion for the player (and Star Wars experience has always been about immersion).
Originally posted by Ahnog I think the stories are the best part of the game.
You are correct and that is the games biggest problem.
I don't understand why many would consider that to be the games biggest problem.... What is an RPG without story?
And please don't start on RPers and/or sandbox MMO's and making up your own story..... That's not a true RPG, (In my experience)... A Game Master/Dungeon Master doesn't have you roll up your character, outfit them and then, just say "Okay here you go, your in this world there's creatures here, and creatures there and NPC's here and there none of which really have any purpose or any direction, none of them really have anything to say... now have it at.. enjoy rolling the dice to fight for no reason, all the while you, the players, are basically only chatting amongst yourselves and doing nothing, going nowhere, progressing the non-existent story... Nope there has to be direction, a goal in a setting/module/campaign... STORY that characters react to. Bioware at least tries to do that, and in my opinion they do a great job, I love the story, I haven't hit the space bar through any of the scenes (the first time through).
Story is the best part of swtor. War zones are pretty fun also in swtor.
In my world everyone knows this.
SWTOR weakness is its themeparkyness, it's companions and harvesting and it's restrictive space combat, the fact everyone hangs at fleet and teleports right into instances. Lack of a breathing world, NPC's just stand there.
Originally posted by Ahnog I think the stories are the best part of the game.
You are correct and that is the games biggest problem.
I don't understand why many would consider that to be the games biggest problem.... What is an RPG without story?
And please don't start on RPers and/or sandbox MMO's and making up your own story..... That's not a true RPG, (In my experience)... A Game Master/Dungeon Master doesn't have you roll up your character, outfit them and then, just say "Okay here you go, your in this world there's creatures here, and creatures there and NPC's here and there none of which really have any purpose or any direction, none of them really have anything to say... now have it at.. enjoy rolling the dice to fight for no reason, all the while you, the players, are basically only chatting amongst yourselves and doing nothing, going nowhere, progressing the non-existent story... Nope there has to be direction, a goal in a setting/module/campaign... STORY that characters react to. Bioware at least tries to do that, and in my opinion they do a great job, I love the story, I haven't hit the space bar through any of the scenes (the first time through).
I really doubt that is the reason. I am quite sure that the real downfall was poor support post release and snail speed at which they were churning out content.
Guys... you cannot churn out content fast enough. It is the core problem of themepark games that rely on scripted instanced content.
Trion did it so yes it can be done.
Trion does not rely solely on singleplayer instanced storylines. Nor have they been very successful, they've had to merge servers more than twice.
Compared to SWTOR i would say thye have been very successful
Compared to the biggest failure in MMO history even Vanguard looks like a success.
Every MMO out there is made around story, what do you think they just build /random world and then look at what they have?
SWTORs "staticness" doesnt have anything to do with their story telling, because every other MMO out ther is more-less like that, frozen in time story takes place (except WoWs Cata? and remake)
You just unraveled 15 years known secret - MMOs are built so every player that plays it after you has same experience - even you on an alt.
Man, rubbish people can come out with lol
SWTORs problem is they cloned 8 -12 year old games, released 2004 game in 2012, with awfully stale and anti-social endgame (aka grind FPs/raids for gear) and that they heavily shifted focus from unique class stories in leveling to generic MMO quests (so awful replayability AND awful "staticness" was born just as in any generic EQ/WoW clone).
Originally posted by Ahnog I think the stories are the best part of the game.
You are correct and that is the games biggest problem.
I don't understand why many would consider that to be the games biggest problem.... What is an RPG without story?
And please don't start on RPers and/or sandbox MMO's and making up your own story..... That's not a true RPG, (In my experience)... A Game Master/Dungeon Master doesn't have you roll up your character, outfit them and then, just say "Okay here you go, your in this world there's creatures here, and creatures there and NPC's here and there none of which really have any purpose or any direction, none of them really have anything to say... now have it at.. enjoy rolling the dice to fight for no reason, all the while you, the players, are basically only chatting amongst yourselves and doing nothing, going nowhere, progressing the non-existent story... Nope there has to be direction, a goal in a setting/module/campaign... STORY that characters react to. Bioware at least tries to do that, and in my opinion they do a great job, I love the story, I haven't hit the space bar through any of the scenes (the first time through).
Well I don't think the pen and paper analogy really works. In pen and paper you don't have the restrictions of technology. You could go out and find your own world, and you have the option to do so unless the guy running the game is a control freak. Sure, the GM will give you stories, but if he is good at GMing, you can also do what you want.
Every MMO out there is made around story, what do you think they just build /random world and then look at what they have?
SWTORs "staticness" doesnt have anything to do with their story telling, because every other MMO out ther is more-less like that, frozen in time story takes place (except WoWs Cata? and remake)
You just unraveled 15 years known secret - MMOs are built so every player that plays it after you has same experience - even you on an alt.
Man, rubbish people can come out with lol
SWTORs problem is they cloned 8 -12 year old games, released 2004 game in 2012, with awfully stale and anti-social endgame (aka grind FPs/raids for gear) and that they heavily shifted focus from unique class stories in leveling to generic MMO quests (so awful replayability AND awful "staticness" was born just as in any generic EQ/WoW clone).
Actually they did worse.
Those games in 2004 managed to have sunsets , night and day , and weather.
EQ in 99 could make it rain and change time.
EA/Bioware in 2010 couldn't even make that work.
But they had voices man , voices , and that to them was more important than a virtual world that didn't seem beyond stale.
Every MMO out there is made around story, what do you think they just build /random world and then look at what they have?
SWTORs "staticness" doesnt have anything to do with their story telling, because every other MMO out ther is more-less like that, frozen in time story takes place (except WoWs Cata? and remake)
You just unraveled 15 years known secret - MMOs are built so every player that plays it after you has same experience - even you on an alt.
Man, rubbish people can come out with lol
SWTORs problem is they cloned 8 -12 year old games, released 2004 game in 2012, with awfully stale and anti-social endgame (aka grind FPs/raids for gear) and that they heavily shifted focus from unique class stories in leveling to generic MMO quests (so awful replayability AND awful "staticness" was born just as in any generic EQ/WoW clone).
Actually they did worse.
Those games in 2004 managed to have sunsets , night and day , and weather.
EQ in 99 could make it rain and change time.
EA/Bioware in 2010 couldn't even make that work.
But they had voices man , voices , and that to them was more important than a virtual world that didn't seem beyond stale.
They may have been lacking in the areas you mentioned, but they more then made up for it with all the exciting new ways in which they added bonus loading screens throughout the gaming expeirnce.
Those games in 2004 managed to have sunsets , night and day , and weather.
EQ in 99 could make it rain and change time.
EA/Bioware in 2010 couldn't even make that work.
But they had voices man , voices , and that to them was more important than a virtual world that didn't seem beyond stale.
Yah, those also dont have much to do with them wanting to tell a good story that makes sense, but just plain bad desing choices (or limitations of the engine).
I honestly thought they would do world instances (story areas, heroic world instaces, end bosses for bonus quests...) as Fallen Earth did it, it makes so much more sense and is so brilliant solution, but also they didnt, they just put red screen. I mean if indie game can do it....also doesnt have much to do with telling a story but things i mentoned above.
Comments
Compared to SWTOR i would say thye have been very successful with their regular content updates. As far as single player storylines are concerned, SWTOR can only blame themselves for that. Trion recovered all their investment and even made profit on top of that after one year of release and now they are releasing a huge expansion. Where is SWTOR in that regards?
But they did do a rakghoul event sadly more open world stuff like that didn't follow
Well said. I think it was how many of us felt (though not because of the hardcore story / voiceover, but because they dictated a set rather than adding depth to an otherwise already vibrant world-- which they failed to ever create).
What went wrong was the story. Once you hit 50 and finished you class quests you were done. That is way to much like single player. They built all the crap around the story. So when you rolled an alt well you had to do it all over again, it became boring and you quit.
Honestly nothing can bring me back at this point, you could add 30 planets, they all felt plastic and lifeless.
I've never played SWG, not even a trial. What I was expecting? I was expecting something fun. I was expecting a game world that would draw me in. I was expecting something along the lines of KOTOR. What I got was a static, boring, wow-in-space clone that couldn't keep a playerbase and quickly ended up a ghost town.
The problem is Star Wars is about worlds and the freedom of movement in it, even in the movies.
Swtor didn't provide worlds. What they provided are instances with boundaries.
Story is not the problem. It is the fact that they built worlds based on story, instead of story for the worlds was the issue here (as someone mentioned before) - because doing it this way kills the sense of immersion for the player (and Star Wars experience has always been about immersion).
I don't understand why many would consider that to be the games biggest problem.... What is an RPG without story?
And please don't start on RPers and/or sandbox MMO's and making up your own story..... That's not a true RPG, (In my experience)... A Game Master/Dungeon Master doesn't have you roll up your character, outfit them and then, just say "Okay here you go, your in this world there's creatures here, and creatures there and NPC's here and there none of which really have any purpose or any direction, none of them really have anything to say... now have it at.. enjoy rolling the dice to fight for no reason, all the while you, the players, are basically only chatting amongst yourselves and doing nothing, going nowhere, progressing the non-existent story... Nope there has to be direction, a goal in a setting/module/campaign... STORY that characters react to. Bioware at least tries to do that, and in my opinion they do a great job, I love the story, I haven't hit the space bar through any of the scenes (the first time through).
Story is the best part of swtor. War zones are pretty fun also in swtor.
In my world everyone knows this.
SWTOR weakness is its themeparkyness, it's companions and harvesting and it's restrictive space combat, the fact everyone hangs at fleet and teleports right into instances. Lack of a breathing world, NPC's just stand there.
That's swtors weakness in my world.
+1000 for this!!!!!!!
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
Compared to the biggest failure in MMO history even Vanguard looks like a success.
Uh... still an RPG.
What is a massively multiplayer game without people?
Oh... right.
Rubbish.
Every MMO out there is made around story, what do you think they just build /random world and then look at what they have?
SWTORs "staticness" doesnt have anything to do with their story telling, because every other MMO out ther is more-less like that, frozen in time story takes place (except WoWs Cata? and remake)
You just unraveled 15 years known secret - MMOs are built so every player that plays it after you has same experience - even you on an alt.
Man, rubbish people can come out with lol
SWTORs problem is they cloned 8 -12 year old games, released 2004 game in 2012, with awfully stale and anti-social endgame (aka grind FPs/raids for gear) and that they heavily shifted focus from unique class stories in leveling to generic MMO quests (so awful replayability AND awful "staticness" was born just as in any generic EQ/WoW clone).
Well I don't think the pen and paper analogy really works. In pen and paper you don't have the restrictions of technology. You could go out and find your own world, and you have the option to do so unless the guy running the game is a control freak. Sure, the GM will give you stories, but if he is good at GMing, you can also do what you want.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Actually they did worse.
Those games in 2004 managed to have sunsets , night and day , and weather.
EQ in 99 could make it rain and change time.
EA/Bioware in 2010 couldn't even make that work.
But they had voices man , voices , and that to them was more important than a virtual world that didn't seem beyond stale.
They may have been lacking in the areas you mentioned, but they more then made up for it with all the exciting new ways in which they added bonus loading screens throughout the gaming expeirnce.
Yah, those also dont have much to do with them wanting to tell a good story that makes sense, but just plain bad desing choices (or limitations of the engine).
I honestly thought they would do world instances (story areas, heroic world instaces, end bosses for bonus quests...) as Fallen Earth did it, it makes so much more sense and is so brilliant solution, but also they didnt, they just put red screen. I mean if indie game can do it....also doesnt have much to do with telling a story but things i mentoned above.