Halo 4 estimate 100 million development with marketing costs included (50 Million / 50 million estimated per previous games.) Net return on day one of release was $220 million in confirmed sales. Franchise returns so far, happily chugging along toward 4 billion.
Halo 4 estimate 100 million development with marketing costs included (50 Million / 50 million estimated per previous games.) Net return on day one of release was $220 million in confirmed sales. Franchise returns so far, happily chugging along toward 4 billion.
this is relevant.
How can anyone justify $300 million for an MMORPG in current times when every major release aside from one with half that budget at most has flopped before justifying its development costs? The problem is that the comparison is too relavent. Companies are emulating single player game models more and more for their MMORPGs because they have yet to show the ability to justify their costs with an adequate return. You read the complaint with every new release now - "it's not an MMORPG, it's a single player game with co-op features." Every preview indicates the same issue is going to rise up again with TESO. Even the DEV team doesn't want it labeld as part of the genre.
$300 million is insane and frankly a stupid investment for the likely return. Ripping DAOC style RVR won't be enough to enarmor it with players long term. I hope the team is well prepared for a free to play model already.
Or take 100Mill, reskin EQ1 and update it, and pocket the rest. Oh wait that was what WoW basically did my bad.
WoW was nothing like EQ1. Why do people post such stupid crap?
One game was solo quest given, the other game was group mob kill driven
One game was streamlined, easily accessible, and had instant gratification. The other took a big commitment to dive into (and as a result had much bigger payoffs)
One games group content was designed around multiple mobs at once (yes, WoW does have some cc but never to the extent of EQ) and the other games group content was designed around fighting one mob at a time with debuffs being key
One game used a talent tree system for unique builds and had no max level character progression, the other had no customization while leveling but had significant progression at max level (by the third expansion)
One had easy mode tradeskills with mostly gathering, the other had costly tradeskills with mostly mob drops
One's combat was designed to be fast paced, the other game's combat was slower and more strategic
One was a themepark, the other wasnt (not all MMOs are themeparks or sandboxes)
these are pretty signficant differences.
Both were level based fantasy MMOs designed around impressive worlds. Thats really where the similarities end.
In case no one has stated the obvious, a lot of that money likely went to game publishing and marketing, other game development, as well as ESO. I'd bet only half was really put towards ESO, at the most.
In case no one has stated the obvious, a lot of that money likely went to game publishing and marketing, other game development, as well as ESO. I'd bet only half was really put towards ESO, at the most.
Which says "The proceeds of the investment will be used to fund future growth, increase game development and publishing, facilitate acquisitions, and finance massively multiplayer online games (MMOGs)."
I.e. proceeds from the investment, not the investment. Part of the ESO sales (proceeds) will be then used to finance future games, but again, not the investment itself.
Voice Acting is such a waste of money for MMORPGs.
Using these fancy smancy mechanics we see in single-player games is just pouring money down the drain. No-one is gonna keep playing an MMORPG for a year because it has a nice voice acting. Having lots of content, stuff to do and constant need to log-in are the things that keep your subs running.
Not saying SWTOR didn't have awesome voice acting, but since they poured so much money into VA the game ended up being a one playthrough.
If you had a 300$ million budget, you are better off spending 200$ mil pre-production and 100$ mil for the updates after the release.
Well I doubt that this 300 million are going to be used only on TESO. There is propably healthy capital not used on it.
STILL TESO is propably only big mmo project worked on by Zenimax. It is doubtfully that they are working on 2 huge mmo / mmorpg titles. There might be concept works or other stages of pre-production for other games, like it was with Trion and Rift. Defiance and End of Nations were planned for a long time but they did not left early stages of production and haven't received huge financing until after Rift was released. Besides Trion received additional financing of 85 million $ in 2012 as Definance and End of Nations are enttering late production stages and propably soon marketting campaigns which is most expensive time in projects like that. So it is not like those 2 games are wholly financed from first 100 million euro capital from 2006.
I would bet that TESO budget is ~150 million $.
Other 150 million is used for some other games that are in conceptual phases and might get released in 3-4 years or / and low-budget mobile / browser games TES related games that might release some time after TESO and as a financial reserve in case TESO need additional funding or marketting or / and fail to meet revenue and profit margins and Zenimax woule want in example to bring TESO to Asia or South America / Russia in future.
-----------------
Btw. WoW Vanilla production budget was not 100 mln$. Not even close. It is rumored it was 40-60 mln $.
They were working on a fallout mmo before that court case with interplay, whether it was just rough design meetings and concept art or whatever, we will never no.
Incidently, with the senior devs being from daoc and uo (mostly), and TESO borrowing quite a bit from daoc, I wonder, if they ever git around to making that fallout mmo would it be influenced by uo.
Article from 2007. Back then, WoW was still on rise, theme-park games that later turned into financial failures (AoC, WAR, SWTOR) were still only being prepared. ESO is probably the last huge-budget themepark title.
If ESO has 300 milion budget, how much did SWTOR have with all its glamorous voice acting and adv campaign? The 500 milion budget now sounds a lot more plausible.
I find it strange that while you can easily link that article you can't find this with a simple Google search:
Also that very old article doesn't state anything specifically about ESO funding, it just says the money was raised for the online division and, 'future', games. 2005 was 5 years ago, Bethesda has released a few game after that date you know...
I'm not sure that any company should or could justify spending 300 million on a games budget in the current state of many countries finance situation it's unreal imo. I doubt that this money will make this game any better than most of the crap made before or even after it. There is so much talent out there and it's not being used to it's full potential and until it is then we will all be looking for that one fix to sort out our gaming needs.
Look, I always said the 200-300 million budget of SWTOR sounded very plausible to me, because people have NO IDEA how expensive these games are. I know people laughed, because they were narrow-minded. Maybe now they will realize this is what you MUST invest in a triple AAA MMO!
SWTOR fell behind because it invested it bad, but the sum is what you need. *shrug*
We *know* for a fact, Rift had a budget of 50 million, so SWTOR and presumable TESO, both being several times the size of Rift reasobale have 200 million budgets. I don't find such numbers unplausible at all.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by GreenishBlue wondering how much it was spent in voice overs; not another SWTOR please
I hope NPCs are not so chatty, yes. But on the other hand, I want voiceovers and no boring text read. A balance between the two.
Originally posted by tank017 300 million that prolly won't be worth it.
Well, luckly you don't have to pay 300 millions, but merely 40-50 dollars for the box and maybe 12-15 per month, which I think the game will be worth. At least for a while.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Money only makes development easyer and sometimes faster, but besites that money eguals nothing, it does not guarantee success it does not make a great game, it does not provide pretty grapics.. sooooo who cares how mutch they got to spent..for all i care they make it whit 100k... or 1 billion.. aslong they make a good game I be a happy customer...
Or take 100Mill, reskin EQ1 and update it, and pocket the rest. Oh wait that was what WoW basically did my bad.
WoW was nothing like EQ1. Why do people post such stupid crap?
One game was solo quest given, the other game was group mob kill driven
One game was streamlined, easily accessible, and had instant gratification. The other took a big commitment to dive into (and as a result had much bigger payoffs)
One games group content was designed around multiple mobs at once (yes, WoW does have some cc but never to the extent of EQ) and the other games group content was designed around fighting one mob at a time with debuffs being key
One game used a talent tree system for unique builds and had no max level character progression, the other had no customization while leveling but had significant progression at max level (by the third expansion)
One had easy mode tradeskills with mostly gathering, the other had costly tradeskills with mostly mob drops
One's combat was designed to be fast paced, the other game's combat was slower and more strategic
One was a themepark, the other wasnt (not all MMOs are themeparks or sandboxes)
these are pretty signficant differences.
Both were level based fantasy MMOs designed around impressive worlds. Thats really where the similarities end.
It still took a lot of the original EQ ideas, Put a new skin on them then streamlined a lot of the games aspects.
Originally posted by Arcondo87 Ill take 300mill, reskin WoW, and pocket the rest and watch my sales SKY ROCKET cuz this generation apparenly LOVE WoW style games.
And yet ESO is nothing like WoW. For every similarity you name I can name 5 that are not similar.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by GreenishBlue wondering how much it was spent in voice overs; not another SWTOR please
If what we already know is any indication then I say alot of went into the art, atmosphere and server systems. Still though I think most will be pleasntly suprised on the scope of all elements of the game and the depth of gameplay we know so little about. I could be wrong but its not rocket surgery to ponder what went wrong with SWTOR's budget with its clonish game play and lack of any content different from WoW. For every game element that SWTOR had at launch TES is doing at 2-3 times the amount of complex gameplay choices. From open world exploration based questing, open world dungeons with community boss battles to the RvR system set in a zone that dwarfs any zone in most modern themepark games.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
We should all know by now that large budgets are meaningless without a solid game design foundation.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Originally posted by ShakyMo Games were cheaper to make in wow time You didn't need a whole bunch of mo cap, hi rez textures, fancy post processing effects and expensive actors.
Want more variety in mmos, stop demanding fps quality production values
Kickstarter, proves that it's doesn't take $300 Mil to make a good game.
Sic semper tyrannis "Democracy broke down, not when the Union ceased to be agreeable to all its constituent States, but when it was upheld, like any other Empire, by force of arms."
Comments
this is relevant.
How can anyone justify $300 million for an MMORPG in current times when every major release aside from one with half that budget at most has flopped before justifying its development costs? The problem is that the comparison is too relavent. Companies are emulating single player game models more and more for their MMORPGs because they have yet to show the ability to justify their costs with an adequate return. You read the complaint with every new release now - "it's not an MMORPG, it's a single player game with co-op features." Every preview indicates the same issue is going to rise up again with TESO. Even the DEV team doesn't want it labeld as part of the genre.
$300 million is insane and frankly a stupid investment for the likely return. Ripping DAOC style RVR won't be enough to enarmor it with players long term. I hope the team is well prepared for a free to play model already.
WoW was nothing like EQ1. Why do people post such stupid crap?
One game was solo quest given, the other game was group mob kill driven
One game was streamlined, easily accessible, and had instant gratification. The other took a big commitment to dive into (and as a result had much bigger payoffs)
One games group content was designed around multiple mobs at once (yes, WoW does have some cc but never to the extent of EQ) and the other games group content was designed around fighting one mob at a time with debuffs being key
One game used a talent tree system for unique builds and had no max level character progression, the other had no customization while leveling but had significant progression at max level (by the third expansion)
One had easy mode tradeskills with mostly gathering, the other had costly tradeskills with mostly mob drops
One's combat was designed to be fast paced, the other game's combat was slower and more strategic
One was a themepark, the other wasnt (not all MMOs are themeparks or sandboxes)
these are pretty signficant differences.
Both were level based fantasy MMOs designed around impressive worlds. Thats really where the similarities end.
No game company makes two MMOs at the same time.
This is the official press release:
http://www.zenimax.com/news_pressrelease10.25.07.htm
Which says "The proceeds of the investment will be used to fund future growth, increase game development and publishing, facilitate acquisitions, and finance massively multiplayer online games (MMOGs)."
I.e. proceeds from the investment, not the investment. Part of the ESO sales (proceeds) will be then used to finance future games, but again, not the investment itself.
REALITY CHECK
Voice Acting is such a waste of money for MMORPGs.
Using these fancy smancy mechanics we see in single-player games is just pouring money down the drain. No-one is gonna keep playing an MMORPG for a year because it has a nice voice acting. Having lots of content, stuff to do and constant need to log-in are the things that keep your subs running.
Not saying SWTOR didn't have awesome voice acting, but since they poured so much money into VA the game ended up being a one playthrough.
If you had a 300$ million budget, you are better off spending 200$ mil pre-production and 100$ mil for the updates after the release.
Well I doubt that this 300 million are going to be used only on TESO. There is propably healthy capital not used on it.
STILL TESO is propably only big mmo project worked on by Zenimax. It is doubtfully that they are working on 2 huge mmo / mmorpg titles. There might be concept works or other stages of pre-production for other games, like it was with Trion and Rift. Defiance and End of Nations were planned for a long time but they did not left early stages of production and haven't received huge financing until after Rift was released. Besides Trion received additional financing of 85 million $ in 2012 as Definance and End of Nations are enttering late production stages and propably soon marketting campaigns which is most expensive time in projects like that. So it is not like those 2 games are wholly financed from first 100 million euro capital from 2006.
I would bet that TESO budget is ~150 million $.
Other 150 million is used for some other games that are in conceptual phases and might get released in 3-4 years or / and low-budget mobile / browser games TES related games that might release some time after TESO and as a financial reserve in case TESO need additional funding or marketting or / and fail to meet revenue and profit margins and Zenimax woule want in example to bring TESO to Asia or South America / Russia in future.
-----------------
Btw. WoW Vanilla production budget was not 100 mln$. Not even close. It is rumored it was 40-60 mln $.
Incidently, with the senior devs being from daoc and uo (mostly), and TESO borrowing quite a bit from daoc, I wonder, if they ever git around to making that fallout mmo would it be influenced by uo.
I find it strange that while you can easily link that article you can't find this with a simple Google search:
http://tor.zam.com/story.html?story=28811
Also that very old article doesn't state anything specifically about ESO funding, it just says the money was raised for the online division and, 'future', games. 2005 was 5 years ago, Bethesda has released a few game after that date you know...
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
Asbo
are they going spend money on voice acting,cutt scenes,solo parts of game....?????
Voice acting yes, solo parts of the game, obviously... Cut scenes? Not sure.
Look, I always said the 200-300 million budget of SWTOR sounded very plausible to me, because people have NO IDEA how expensive these games are. I know people laughed, because they were narrow-minded. Maybe now they will realize this is what you MUST invest in a triple AAA MMO!
SWTOR fell behind because it invested it bad, but the sum is what you need. *shrug*
We *know* for a fact, Rift had a budget of 50 million, so SWTOR and presumable TESO, both being several times the size of Rift reasobale have 200 million budgets. I don't find such numbers unplausible at all.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I hope NPCs are not so chatty, yes. But on the other hand, I want voiceovers and no boring text read. A balance between the two.
Well, luckly you don't have to pay 300 millions, but merely 40-50 dollars for the box and maybe 12-15 per month, which I think the game will be worth. At least for a while.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
It still took a lot of the original EQ ideas, Put a new skin on them then streamlined a lot of the games aspects.
And yet ESO is nothing like WoW. For every similarity you name I can name 5 that are not similar.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
If what we already know is any indication then I say alot of went into the art, atmosphere and server systems. Still though I think most will be pleasntly suprised on the scope of all elements of the game and the depth of gameplay we know so little about. I could be wrong but its not rocket surgery to ponder what went wrong with SWTOR's budget with its clonish game play and lack of any content different from WoW. For every game element that SWTOR had at launch TES is doing at 2-3 times the amount of complex gameplay choices. From open world exploration based questing, open world dungeons with community boss battles to the RvR system set in a zone that dwarfs any zone in most modern themepark games.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Kickstarter, proves that it's doesn't take $300 Mil to make a good game.
Sic semper tyrannis "Democracy broke down, not when the Union
ceased to be agreeable to all its constituent States, but when it was upheld, like any other Empire, by force of arms."
Well, if they don't blow it all on voice acting and cut scenes, there should be a lot of 'game' in there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.