Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

FFXIV ARR, another WoW clone

1356

Comments

  • EternalSage2000EternalSage2000 Anchorage, AKPosts: 29Member

    This game is beautiful,  The Final Fantasy World and Lore is beautiful.  I bought the collectors edition XIV and ,tried my hardest to like the game.  I played WoW for a very long time,  loved the lore up til Wrath, the controls were tight, and the game was fluid.  If they have sucessfully made a new FF MMO, with the simplicity of controls and ui customization that WoW has.  I will be extremely pleased.

    However,  FFXIV has burned me before,  while I want to love ARR, I am skeptical.  Please Square,  I want to love you again. 

  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    Final fantasy cloning itself since 1987. who's cloning who? control and UI ? with that small thinking then Battle field cloned Call of Duity who cloned Socom right? clone please . Nothing in FF will ever be from WoW or anyother game for that matter. Debate Ova!

    http://absoluteretribution.enjin.com/ Guild Website and Recruitment link

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by Arcondo87

    People keep forgetting that WoW IS a Everyquest clone...or atleast they got alot of there ideas from it. Wish i had that video where they interview the WoW devs and they all admit to be hardcore everquest players and that they were inspired by it and took alot of what they enjoyed out of the game and put it in WoW.... But then Everquest fed off the success of Neverwinter nights...wich was BEFORE everquest...so in a way everquest copied Neverwinter Nights

     

    FOUND THE DOCUMENTORY!!! HERE IT IS!! WATCH AND LEARN!|

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtqG1u2hqUY&feature=relmfu

     

    and the piece about the wow devs is in here fast forward to 3:20ish they openly admit wow woudnt exzist if everquest didnt inspire them

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=022CU1p7Jbk&feature=relmfu

     

    WoW is not an Everquest clone. How do two games being similar, of the same genre, become a clone? This is so ridiculous I feel retarded wasting my time on it.  The videos you posted describe how the WoW developers had fun with EQ. The FFXIV development team is stating that they are making FFXIV with minimal differences from WoW.

    WoW was so different than EQ. EQ virtually required grouping, had harsh death penalties, did not lead you around by the nose with a marked minimap, had few instances, and was HARD. WoW is dumb. DUMB. You solo clear to max level, move from map marker to map marker, spend SO much time in instances, hardly a death penalty, and is easy.  How is one the clone of another? Just because there are eleves and dwarves and magic does not mean it's a clone.

    Where do you guys come up with this stuff. I have to stop coming to these message boards it has to be bad for me. Just because some games come after others does NOT mean that the ones that come after it are clones of the earlier games. Everquest is a UO clone.........yeah right. And TERA is an Anarchy Online Clone.  OK

    And to the people saying that FFXIV 1.0 was trying to be original.................in what respect was it trying to be original?

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    I remember reading an article in a magazine years ago when wow was first announced that the developers were inspired by the fact that they loved EQ, but they were tired of waiting so long for content updates, and they thought the grind turned away a lot of potential players.

    The same article announced the rested experience points system. 

    I groaned, said oh no they are just catering to the casual gamers, this wont' be good for the mmo community.

    Here we are years later.

     

    Point of this story is yes, wow WAS directly inspired by EQ, to the point which you could call it an EQ clone at its core and at its launch it was hyped as the evolution of EQ.

     

    I don't know why you are still talking about how this is a WoW clone after everything you've seen.  Is it the exclaimation points above an NPC's head that makes you think "wow clone"?   You never justify your statement except with what you think is damning evidence of Yoshi saying they were inspired by WoW.   

    FFXI was inspired by EQ.  We see how different it turned out from WoW.  

    Two games, WoW and FFXI.  The same game inspires both, yet they are extremely different.  This is just one example of why you are crying wolf.

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 771Member Uncommon

    With the original FFXIV, they tried to change everything they could from the current themepark model, and they failed miserably. When the new game director stepped in and did a lot of surveys about what people wanted in the game, it turned out that the majority of people who took the surveys WANTED more WoW-like features to be added, or to replace the current systems in place.

    FFXIV ARR is going to be the sum of those surveys and player feedback with some much improved graphics, animations, combat, and, hopefully, story, as well.

    It's what the players wanted, and it's what the players are getting.

  • AconsarAconsar Narvon, PAPosts: 262Member

    The ONLY WoW-esque features I would be happy to see is a more fluid control/combat scheme, with jumping (confirmed!) and NOT menu-based activation.  Yes, Final Fantasy is known for menus, and it works great for offline single player games.  But for an MMO, it's annoying.  I love(d) FFXI, but you simply had to macro every ability/command to be effeceint.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    I remember reading an article in a magazine years ago when wow was first announced that the developers were inspired by the fact that they loved EQ, but they were tired of waiting so long for content updates, and they thought the grind turned away a lot of potential players.

    The same article announced the rested experience points system. 

    I groaned, said oh no they are just catering to the casual gamers, this wont' be good for the mmo community.

    Here we are years later.

     

    Point of this story is yes, wow WAS directly inspired by EQ, to the point which you could call it an EQ clone at its core and at its launch it was hyped as the evolution of EQ.

     

    I don't know why you are still talking about how this is a WoW clone after everything you've seen.  Is it the exclaimation points above an NPC's head that makes you think "wow clone"?   You never justify your statement except with what you think is damning evidence of Yoshi saying they were inspired by WoW.   

    FFXI was inspired by EQ.  We see how different it turned out from WoW.  

    Two games, WoW and FFXI.  The same game inspires both, yet they are extremely different.  This is just one example of why you are crying wolf.

    When you say that both FFXI and WoW were inspired by Everquest you are capturing my point nicely. Neither WoW or FFXI were Everquest clones.  Both games were influnced by Everquest but were not clones of Everquest.  Most games since WoW have been clones.

    How can you call WoW an Everquest clone? Can anyone actually explain that?

    The exclamation points above NPC heads is just indicative of something greater. The worlds are not worlds anymore. There is nothing to figure out, no actual reason to group (plenty of motives, ie treasure) or form communities, etc. Also, these themes have ran throughout every MMO since WoW. Before WoW things were much more heterogenous. I really don't want to turn this into a "what's wrong with the current state of MMOs thread." There are already lots of those and I have posted in those. The point is that FFXIV ARR is not going to be any different. Yoshi has stated that.

    Multiple games could claim to be influenced by Everquest and be totally different. Now every game, whether it says it is a "Wow killer" or "has been influenced by WoW," is almost a clone of WoW.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by Aviggin

    With the original FFXIV, they tried to change everything they could from the current themepark model, and they failed miserably. When the new game director stepped in and did a lot of surveys about what people wanted in the game, it turned out that the majority of people who took the surveys WANTED more WoW-like features to be added, or to replace the current systems in place.

    FFXIV ARR is going to be the sum of those surveys and player feedback with some much improved graphics, animations, combat, and, hopefully, story, as well.

    It's what the players wanted, and it's what the players are getting.

    Are you serious? The person who directed FFXIV 1.0 said he was using WoW as his model os success.  I have mentioned, like 5 other times, how similar FFXIV 1.0 is to WoW.  Can you name some differences?  Expain yourself a little?

    Where does it say that FFXIV was trying to be entirely original? Not a single person complained about FFXIV 1.0 graphics or animations. Guess what the current director is always talking about concerning ARR?  Graphics and animations.........

    I read stuff like this, and I want to crawl in a hole and die. Aviggin, just because a game fails does not mean that it was trying to be original.....

     

  • WolfenprideWolfenpride San''doria, WIPosts: 3,988Member
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by Aviggin

    With the original FFXIV, they tried to change everything they could from the current themepark model, and they failed miserably. When the new game director stepped in and did a lot of surveys about what people wanted in the game, it turned out that the majority of people who took the surveys WANTED more WoW-like features to be added, or to replace the current systems in place.

    FFXIV ARR is going to be the sum of those surveys and player feedback with some much improved graphics, animations, combat, and, hopefully, story, as well.

    It's what the players wanted, and it's what the players are getting.

    Are you serious? The person who directed FFXIV 1.0 said he was using WoW as his model os success.  I have mentioned, like 5 other times, how similar FFXIV 1.0 is to WoW.  Can you name some differences?  Expain yourself a little?

     

    Where does it say that FFXIV was trying to be entirely original?

    They got seriously distracted if they ever said they were following the WoW model.

     

    They opted for a EQ style Bazaar instead of a traditional auction house

    It's quests were largely based on the somewhat random leve system and behests

    I don't believe dungeons were instanced until later when the new guy took charge

    Combat revlolved around buliding TP or a non-recharging mana pool

    The UI was in no way similar to what most games go with these days.

    The class system was more freeform.

     

    They were using some dated ideas you could trace back to a few oldie games, but certainly not WoW's.

  • SkuallSkuall UnknowPosts: 1,280Member Uncommon

    the main point i think is that, mmorpg players DONT NEED another wow clone we have enough already.

    if u are going to take ideas , take it from FFXI (pre abyssea) , what awesome experience , i miss it everyday.

    i wanted FFXIV to be an improved FFXI (more instanced endgame 4 example ,thats a good idea ) , quest based for solo players , but good exp por partys too .

     

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 771Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by Aviggin

    With the original FFXIV, they tried to change everything they could from the current themepark model, and they failed miserably. When the new game director stepped in and did a lot of surveys about what people wanted in the game, it turned out that the majority of people who took the surveys WANTED more WoW-like features to be added, or to replace the current systems in place.

    FFXIV ARR is going to be the sum of those surveys and player feedback with some much improved graphics, animations, combat, and, hopefully, story, as well.

    It's what the players wanted, and it's what the players are getting.

    Are you serious? The person who directed FFXIV 1.0 said he was using WoW as his model os success.  I have mentioned, like 5 other times, how similar FFXIV 1.0 is to WoW.  Can you name some differences?  Expain yourself a little?

     

    Where does it say that FFXIV was trying to be entirely original?

    Let's see... crafting was unique, guildleves were the quests, and they were quick and time limited, as well as limited in the amount you could do daily (quests similar to WoW not having been available at launch) and, the way the story was presented is much different than WoW, skills were your main progression at first and levels weren't as big of a deal, until they flipped it later down the road, skill xp was given during the fights rather than after them, and they were never guaranteed from every monster...

    No auction house or anything at first, and when something was added, they opted for a system where you had an NPC sitting in rooms with a bunch of other NPC's and you basically just wandrered through and checked each one individually to see if they had an item you wanted, and if your NPC was there, you just had to hope someone wandered by, checked your guy and saw somethign they wanted.

    The progression wasn't quite as linear as WoW, and sometimes you'd just wander off into zones near where you were questing and run into stuff you couldn't even come close to handling, and even in places in the zone you WERE questing, there was incredibly tough monsters randomly strewn about that you couldn't kill yourself generally.

    This is how the game was at launch. There was also not a TON of content, and it was mostly based on grind, which the amount of xp you could grind was also limited weekly I believe... maybe daily.

    So there ya go. There's likely more, but I can't think of everything right now.

  • drivendawndrivendawn montgomery, ALPosts: 1,237Member Uncommon
    Well 1.0 crafting nothing like wow the u.i nothing like wow the gameplay and mechanics nothing like wow soooooooooooooooo whatever dude.
  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by Wolfenpride
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by Aviggin

    With the original FFXIV, they tried to change everything they could from the current themepark model, and they failed miserably. When the new game director stepped in and did a lot of surveys about what people wanted in the game, it turned out that the majority of people who took the surveys WANTED more WoW-like features to be added, or to replace the current systems in place.

    FFXIV ARR is going to be the sum of those surveys and player feedback with some much improved graphics, animations, combat, and, hopefully, story, as well.

    It's what the players wanted, and it's what the players are getting.

    Are you serious? The person who directed FFXIV 1.0 said he was using WoW as his model os success.  I have mentioned, like 5 other times, how similar FFXIV 1.0 is to WoW.  Can you name some differences?  Expain yourself a little?

     

    Where does it say that FFXIV was trying to be entirely original?

    They got seriously distracted if they ever said they were following the WoW model.

     

    They opted for a EQ style Bazaar instead of a traditional auction house

    It's quests were largely based on the somewhat random leve system and behests

    I don't believe dungeons were instanced until later when the new guy took charge

    Combat revlolved around buliding TP or a non-recharging mana pool

    The UI was in no way similar to what most games go with these days.

    The class system was more freeform.

     

    They were using some dated ideas you could trace back to a few oldie games, but certainly not WoW's.

    The class system and leve quests were unique. The leve system was not fun at all. It can't be traced back to earlier games. A freeform class system can't be traced back to any earlier games either. I'm a fan of multiple classes for one character because it makes that characters more permanent. If you don't have permanence you can't have a community.

    All of the major missions and quests were always instanced at some point, for a fight or NPC or something.  I can't think of a single world monster that was epic. Older games had world monsters. I was a white mage and my mana would always replenish within a minute after a fight. The TP was kind of unique. Other games have timers. I can't remember the original interface. Now it is very similar to other games.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by drivendawn
    Well 1.0 crafting nothing like wow the u.i nothing like wow the gameplay and mechanics nothing like wow soooooooooooooooo whatever dude.

    The crafting was different.  I liked it

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by drivec

    i like this wow has good game play why not take whats already been proven successful and bring it into ff world/lore.

    Because it hasn't worked for any other game in the last 8 years?

    WoW isn't a very good game, or its clones would be doing well, wouldn't they? WoW is an outlier.

    People want originality. XIV had it, but it wasn't finished. It was still far more interesting than a WoW clone. Instead of fixing their design issues, they just cloned WoW, which is a one way ticket to failure.

  • drivendawndrivendawn montgomery, ALPosts: 1,237Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by drivec

    i like this wow has good game play why not take whats already been proven successful and bring it into ff world/lore.

    Because it hasn't worked for any other game in the last 8 years?

    WoW isn't a very good game, or its clones would be doing well, wouldn't they? WoW is an outlier.

    People want originality. XIV had it, but it wasn't finished. It was still far more interesting than a WoW clone. Instead of fixing their design issues, they just cloned WoW, which is a one way ticket to failure.

    Yep quest baced leveling and standard UI equals WOW clone and fail lol whatever.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by drivendawn
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by drivec

    i like this wow has good game play why not take whats already been proven successful and bring it into ff world/lore.

    Because it hasn't worked for any other game in the last 8 years?

    WoW isn't a very good game, or its clones would be doing well, wouldn't they? WoW is an outlier.

    People want originality. XIV had it, but it wasn't finished. It was still far more interesting than a WoW clone. Instead of fixing their design issues, they just cloned WoW, which is a one way ticket to failure.

    Yep quest baced leveling and standard UI equals WOW clone and fail lol whatever.

    As well as a short ladder to the top, lots of solo play, lots of instances, every class bring a hybrid, beind led by the nose from point to point, no world monsters, end game focuse, etc.

  • drivendawndrivendawn montgomery, ALPosts: 1,237Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by drivendawn
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by drivec

    i like this wow has good game play why not take whats already been proven successful and bring it into ff world/lore.

    Because it hasn't worked for any other game in the last 8 years?

    WoW isn't a very good game, or its clones would be doing well, wouldn't they? WoW is an outlier.

    People want originality. XIV had it, but it wasn't finished. It was still far more interesting than a WoW clone. Instead of fixing their design issues, they just cloned WoW, which is a one way ticket to failure.

    Yep quest baced leveling and standard UI equals WOW clone and fail lol whatever.

    As well as a short ladder to the top, lots of solo play, lots of instances, every class bring a hybrid, beind led by the nose from point to point, no world monsters, end game focuse, etc.

    Most of that is in other games.No world bosses where did you read that? XI had hybrid classes and endgame focus.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by drivendawn
    Originally posted by Magiknight
    Originally posted by drivendawn
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by drivec

    i like this wow has good game play why not take whats already been proven successful and bring it into ff world/lore.

    Because it hasn't worked for any other game in the last 8 years?

    WoW isn't a very good game, or its clones would be doing well, wouldn't they? WoW is an outlier.

    People want originality. XIV had it, but it wasn't finished. It was still far more interesting than a WoW clone. Instead of fixing their design issues, they just cloned WoW, which is a one way ticket to failure.

    Yep quest baced leveling and standard UI equals WOW clone and fail lol whatever.

    As well as a short ladder to the top, lots of solo play, lots of instances, every class bring a hybrid, beind led by the nose from point to point, no world monsters, end game focuse, etc.

    Most of that is in other games.No world bosses where did you read that? XI had hybrid classes and endgame focus.

    Most of that IS in games post WoW.

    The only hybrid class in FFXI, pre WoW influence, was Red Mage. FFXI was as much about the journey as the endgame. There was content to do along the way. The Chains of Promathia Expansion pack required mad grouping, story, and hard ass fights to do as you leveled up.

     

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Aviggin

    No auction house or anything at first, and when something was added, they opted for a system where you had an NPC sitting in rooms with a bunch of other NPC's and you basically just wandrered through and checked each one individually to see if they had an item you wanted, and if your NPC was there, you just had to hope someone wandered by, checked your guy and saw somethign they wanted.

     

    While the implementation was awful, the EQ1 style auction house is 100x more negaging than the WoW style auction house.  A good search function is needed but window shoping in the old Luclin Bazaar was a blast

  • zevni78zevni78 grimsbyPosts: 1,133Member Uncommon

    Lets clear this up.

     

    When Yoshi talks about looking to WoW he means that ARR will have the same quality of life, UI, basic world layout, controls and polish that is the standard in fantasy thempark mmorpgs. Even if you intend to do something very different from WoW you still need to be aware of the standard to know what most people are used to, even if it’s something as basic as inventory system, so you don’t re-invent the wheel unnecessary.

     

    Tanaka and his crew where operating in a vacuum, with no idea what the rest of the world had been playing or what devs had been building upon. This isn’t about WoW clones; this is about standards of convenience that FFXIV lacked completely, and for no good reason. It wasn’t a bold new experiment; it was a mess, due to ignorance. The UI had so many awkward and redundant elements, and combat so many stages, the map, NPCs, crafting so convoluted and unhelpful. What few original ideas FFXIV had was lost in the obtuse design, not to mention the technical incompetence.

     

    The mmo world, from Rift's server tech and dynamics, to audio NPC info dumps in DCUO, to the action combat in TERA, to open world and pvp in GW2 and story presentation in SWTOR all have something that Squenix can learn from. Only once they know what other ideas have been tried, what has failed and what has worked can they build upon that with something new. If you look at their latest production diaries they are starting to include ideas I have never seen in an MMO, such as boss drops and class gear for you mount.

     

    People who worry about a WoW clone fail to appreciate just how out of touch the FFXIV devs where for so long, they need to catch up, even if it means sometimes making the same mistakes others have made.

     

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by zevni78

    Lets clear this up.

     

    When Yoshi talks about looking to WoW he means that ARR will have the same quality of life, UI, basic world layout, controls and polish that is the standard in fantasy thempark mmorpgs. Even if you intend to do something very different from WoW you still need to be aware of the standard to know what most people are used to, even if it’s something as basic as inventory system, so you don’t re-invent the wheel unnecessary.

     

    Tanaka and his crew where operating in a vacuum, with no idea what the rest of the world had been playing or what devs had been building upon. This isn’t about WoW clones; this is about standards of convenience that FFXIV lacked completely, and for no good reason. It wasn’t a bold new experiment; it was a mess, due to ignorance. The UI had so many awkward and redundant elements, and combat so many stages, the map, NPCs, crafting so convoluted and unhelpful. What few original ideas FFXIV had was lost in the obtuse design, not to mention the technical incompetence.

     

    The mmo world, from Rift's server tech and dynamics, to audio NPC info dumps in DCUO, to the action combat in TERA, to open world and pvp in GW2 and story presentation in SWTOR all have something that Squenix can learn from. Only once they know what other ideas have been tried, what has failed and what has worked can they build upon that with something new. If you look at their latest production diaries they are starting to include ideas I have never seen in an MMO, such as boss drops and class gear for you mount.

     

    People who worry about a WoW clone fail to appreciate just how out of touch the FFXIV devs where for so long, they need to catch up, even if it means sometimes making the same mistakes others have made.

     

    I just don't want to run around killing everything in site while I'm spamming buttons. I don't want to run from map marker to map marker. I don't want to solo to max level so that "the game can start" and I can participate in raids. I have no desire to be max level within a few months of playing. I have no desire to do instanced dungeons. If I wanted to play a game with 6 other people I would play Starcraft or Diablo. If it isn't challenging I don't want to play it. FFXIV 1.0 was most of what I just mentioned.  WoW was also this. Sorry about my babbling

  • zevni78zevni78 grimsbyPosts: 1,133Member Uncommon

    Reading threw the thread again there seems to be some confusion as to the order of events.

    Tanaka was in charge of FFXIV 1.0 from the start until he was booted off a few months after launch. He and his crew knew of WoW only as a rival, the suits upstairs insisted FFXIV launch before it was ready to beat Cata’s release. (Though the premature release wouldn’t have helped with all the other deeper problems).

    Tanaka and Co. Made FFXIV according to what their own ideas as to what would be convenient for them to manage, resulting in stiff penalisations and limitations for players. Tanaka didn’t include many elements from FFXI, or any other game. I’ve played most of his previous projects for Square, none are has badly designed. FFXIV didn’t just lack basic features from WoW, but from just about every rpg or MMO of the last 10-20 yrs. Different but often in a very bad way was the FFXIV experience.

    Yoshida took over with his new team and took a great deal of advice and criticism from players from Japan and the West, and found among other things that most were used to certain basics. We didn’t want a WoW clone, or even a total FFXI clone, just an mmo that innovated where it needed to, and didn’t either try new ideas without testing them, or use old ideas that the mmo player and developer community had moved on from.

     

    It is not being derivative to learn from hundreds of other studios and millions of cases of trial and error.

  • zevni78zevni78 grimsbyPosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magiknight     I just don't want to run around killing everything in site while I'm spamming buttons. I don't want to run from map marker to map marker. I don't want to solo to max level so that "the game can start" and I can participate in raids. I have no desire to be max level within a few months of playing. I have no desire to do instanced dungeons. If I wanted to play a game with 6 other people I would play Starcraft or Diablo. If it isn't challenging I don't want to play it. FFXIV 1.0 was most of what I just mentioned.  WoW was also this. Sorry about my babbling

     

    Fare enough, if you could get through the bad design in 1.0 (which was a challenge in itself) I guess there was un-inspired game play, but not due to looking at WoW, just a lack of imagination, (and content). There were more group and crafting focused elements (although very badly done), and open world NMs than WoW had, not to mention story, if the lack of audio didn’t bug you. I can see why instances would be an easier solution. But that was for 1.0, Yoshi was only able to add things on a system he intended to scrap. Only with ARR will we see if he can pull-off good open world, besides given the single player origins, FF does kind of lend itself to instanced dungeons. I also object to any comparison of the guild leaves to WoW style quest hubs, those leaves struck me as a massive step back from even WoW's design.

     

    It sounds like you have a very specialized set of requirements, what mmos out now would you say fill them?

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by zevni78

    Reading threw the thread again there seems to be some confusion as to the order of events.

    Tanaka was in charge of FFXIV 1.0 from the start until he was booted off a few months after launch. He and his crew knew of WoW only as a rival, the suits upstairs insisted FFXIV launch before it was ready to beat Cata’s release. (Though the premature release wouldn’t have helped with all the other deeper problems).

    Tanaka and Co. Made FFXIV according to what their own ideas as to what would be convenient for them to manage, resulting in stiff penalisations and limitations for players. Tanaka didn’t include many elements from FFXI, or any other game. I’ve played most of his previous projects for Square, none are has badly designed. FFXIV didn’t just lack basic features from WoW, but from just about every rpg or MMO of the last 10-20 yrs. Different but often in a very bad way was the FFXIV experience.

    Yoshida took over with his new team and took a great deal of advice and criticism from players from Japan and the West, and found among other things that most were used to certain basics. We didn’t want a WoW clone, or even a total FFXI clone, just an mmo that innovated where it needed to, and didn’t either try new ideas without testing them, or use old ideas that the mmo player and developer community had moved on from.

     

    It is not being derivative to learn from hundreds of other studios and millions of cases of trial and error.

    The same person, Komoto, directed FFXI and FFXIV. He played Everquest. How did the game lack basic features of MMORPGs from the last 10-20 years? FFXIV was badly designed. I don't think anyone will dispute that. What are you speaking of when you say "stiff penalisations and limitations?" The point of the thread was how much FFXIV ARR will be like WoW. Yoshida also wrote off the opinions of everyone who played FFXI and FFXIV 1.0. I cna only guess where he is getting his criticisms from.

This discussion has been closed.