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OMG, I just realized what went wrong!

FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

The hardcore main focus on storytelling is the devil!!

They built planet maps and buildings around the stories. They went like, "ok we have these stories, now which set pieces do we need."

Like a freakin movie set list.

 

They did NOT have this approach:

"Let's build fantastic and vibrant Star Wars worlds with amazing gameplay mechanics and top it off with great stories."

 

The hardcore story/voiceover focus ruined the game. I feel enlightened.

 

Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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The Return of ELITE !
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Comments

  • KhebelnKhebeln BelfastPosts: 676Member Uncommon

    That explenation is not very clear. But to make it easier to understand.

    Game world was just completly STATIC. It was not a world but a singleplayer game with multiplayer mechanics.

    There are quite a few games on the market that did that mistake during the past few years, but developers are learning the mistake, based on their official statements to investors after some fails :) Not talking specificaly about SWTOR right now :)

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  • AhnogAhnog Keller, TXPosts: 231Member Uncommon
    I think the stories are the best part of the game.

    Ahnog

    Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.

  • PhlaccPhlacc Surrey, BCPosts: 37Member Uncommon
    Actually, I guess that makes sense, which might be why the game feels more like a single player game. I know it is an mmo, but most times when I was playing it, it felt single player.
  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    I think the stories are the best part of the game.

    You are correct and that is the games biggest problem.

  • PhlaccPhlacc Surrey, BCPosts: 37Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    I think the stories are the best part of the game.

    Well, the OP's arguement wasn't the quality of the stories, which I also loved, but I think the OP was mainly saying that they built the framework for the game the wrong way. Like the OP said, they should have built the world and added the stories, isntead of the other way around.

     

    I think....

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    I think the stories are the best part of the game.

    It is good for a single player game, but for a MMO, it is the worst thing to do.

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    I think the stories are the best part of the game.

    but the stories don't come out of the game world naturally, according to the concept the stories are the reason we even *have* certain planets and places.

    Focus order is wrong, wrong approach to the game design.

    it should have been "Game worlds justify Stories"

    it is now "Stories justify Game worlds".

     

     

    (not sure if this is clear, not native speaker sorry)

     

     

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
    image

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    Not exactly. Look at how Bioware games were developed before hand. Story was the focus and the story shaped around it. The issue comes that SWTOR is an MMO and as such that was more limiting which does make the world feel quite static. 

     

    Still, I feel its biggest killing factor is trying to be exactly like every other MMO rather then trying to be its own thing.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 8,063Member
    It certainly makes sense, that they put way too much time and emphasis on the personal stories. Which are mostly good, no doubt. But the rest just feel like an appendix. So, sort of yes, but more complex.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Of course they build game world around game stories.  That was their goal.   They kinda miscalcuated amount of people that would like that.

    There are many people that would want game world build around...well being a coherent beliveable world. Maybe with some stories inside that world even if that would mean alot less stories than in Swtor's case.

    If that group would be bigger than Swtor's group?  I don't know.

     

    Still yes your point is right. Bioware did build game world shape around their storytelling. It was not an accident thought. They meant that.

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon
    Well... at least one person here is greatful for that :)

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
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    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • Blazer6992Blazer6992 Las Vegas, NVPosts: 606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    I think the stories are the best part of the game.

    You are correct and that is the games biggest problem.

     

    That's the only good part.

     

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    I think the stories are the best part of the game.

    They're the only part of the game. That's the problem.

    The stories are mostly singleplayer. You beat a singleplaye game and move on.

    This is a sub based MMORPG, people will not stick around for the half assed singleplayer that's in this game. The MMO part of this game is awful, and the singleplayer portion will never be as good as a true singleplayer game would have been.

  • achesomaachesoma Portland, ORPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    I think the stories are the best part of the game.

    They're the only part of the game. That's the problem.

    The stories are mostly singleplayer. You beat a singleplaye game and move on.

    This is a sub based MMORPG, people will not stick around for the half assed singleplayer that's in this game. The MMO part of this game is awful, and the singleplayer portion will never be as good as a true singleplayer game would have been.

    I know this is the belief of most here but I don't believe is was so much that the MMO part was awful.  Most of the standard MMO functions were in and done quite well...for 5 years ago.  Most of us had been there, done that.  Players are craving something more.  If SWTOR was released in 2006 I honestly believe it would have been a much bigger hit.  Not WoW size of a hit but certainly much better than its current state.  That's the big risk with MMOs is that they take so long to develop by the time it releases it risks being out of date.  By sticking with traditional MMO classes, combat and holy trinity it made the game feel bland. 

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  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,613Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    I think the stories are the best part of the game.

      Agreed and that is why I liked it. Others were expecting SWG2, we see a backlash from mmorpg posters because prob 70% are hard core players and TOR was made for more casual players which is why F2P should be a huge success

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    I think the stories are the best part of the game.

      Agreed and that is why I liked it. Others were expecting SWG2

    No they weren't, they were expecting an MMO and got a singleplayer game.

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by eddieg50
     Others were expecting SWG2

    No, I guess we were simply expecting worlds like in an updated SWG2, and some FPs, WZs, OPs, plus Bioware quality storytelling.

    And of course features from that 10 year older title which could be considered standard for a triple A megabudget STAR WARS MMO, like a multiplayer space sim, or simple day night cycles on planets.

    It all fits on the picture now, the locations are all like movie sets for the moment, static and frozen for the moment the story takes place,  like they used to do for single player games.

    This is why it doesn´t feel like an MMO, this is why it doesn´t feel right for many, because if it would be single player Kotor 3, it would look as amazing as ME3, and if it would be a MMO, we would have huge expansive vibrant dynamic worlds to explore which are not a linear "on rails" experience.

    SWTOR is some strange hybrid of both but it neither gives a very good single player experience, nor a very good MMO experience.

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
    image

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member

    I really doubt that is the reason. I am quite sure that the real downfall was poor support post release and snail speed at which they were churning out content.

    Bioware needs to learn from Trion how to copy WOW and still keep people busy just on basis of regularcontent updates.

    People got bored at end game and move on. Even if they didn't focus too much on stories the slow speed at which they were releasing content would still be a problem.

    I think people focus too much on stories and forget the real issue..the content just didn't come fast enough after release.

     

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    the content just didn't come fast enough after release.

     

     

    But what is the definition of content?

    Was "Legacy System" content?

    Is an "event" content? They had two, a good one (Rakghouls) and the other one was a little uninspired.

    When does the game really feel bigger or more interesting, if they add X number of flashpoints? Or X number of OPs ?

    Because at the moment the last thing that would bring me back would be a new flashpoint or a new OP.

    Also would it really help the game if they added a new boxed-in planet to the other boxed-in planets which are already there?

     

     

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
    image

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    the content just didn't come fast enough after release.

     

     

    But what is the definition of content?

    Was "Legacy System" content?

    Is an "event" content? They had two, a good one (Rakghouls) and the other one was a little uninspired.

    When does the game really feel bigger or more interesting, if they add X number of flashpoints? Or X number of OPs ?

    Because at the moment the last thing that would bring me back would be a new flashpoint or a new OP.

    Also would it really help the game if they added a new boxed-in planet to the other boxed-in planets which are already there?

     

     

    Legacy was more like fluff . Compare these tiny updates to the ones Trion has been churning out since release. Easy to see the difference.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    I really doubt that is the reason. I am quite sure that the real downfall was poor support post release and snail speed at which they were churning out content.

    Guys... you cannot churn out content fast enough. It is the core problem of themepark games that rely on scripted instanced content.

  • TillerTiller Portland, ORPosts: 4,921Member
    Originally posted by FromHell

    The hardcore main focus on storytelling is the devil!!

    They built planet maps and buildings around the stories. They went like, "ok we have these stories, now which set pieces do we need."

    Like a freakin movie set list.

     

    They did NOT have this approach:

    "Let's build fantastic and vibrant Star Wars worlds with amazing gameplay mechanics and top it off with great stories."

     

    The hardcore story/voiceover focus ruined the game. I feel enlightened.

     

    Is this why NPC stood around and did nothing? Frozen in time, like walking through a diorama. I laughed at the idea when people said NPC were too static, after looking around the game, I though, OMG people are right, few things moved around at all. Not sure if they fixed this after almast a year or so, since i haven't played in a long time.

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    SWG pre-cu vet, elder Jedi, elder BH -Bloodfin

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    I really doubt that is the reason. I am quite sure that the real downfall was poor support post release and snail speed at which they were churning out content.

    Guys... you cannot churn out content fast enough. It is the core problem of themepark games that rely on scripted instanced content.

    Trion did it so yes it can be done.

  • Kry0genKry0gen Orlando, FLPosts: 11Member

    A large portion of the players loved the story and loved the way leveling went and how alike it was to the single player games of KtoR. Obviously the OP is correct and the MMO part of the game was just not very well structured even though it was a beautiful and amazing game.

    Having such large company like EA breathing down Biowares neck because of the budget and time they used during development that it was rushed to the market. Everyone can tell that the Pre-launch website was full of content that was good for lore but really nothing came out of it. There was no benefit in spending 300 million dollars in writers for content and putting so much time and effort to even have side quests voice acted if in the end we were left in a cliff hanger. just waiting for more...

    Developers had the mindset of "Everyone will enjoy the story so much they will role other characters!!!"

    Unfortunate thing is that they missed two of the most essential things of an MMO: systems (Rated PvP, Arena, end-game content etc...) and replay value. To no surprise the game came to a very awkward position when people reached end-game and saw that only thing they could do is explore the planets and farm Eternity Vault. PvPers were thrown under the bus with the fail that was the capture based pvp area that was supposely going to evolve open world pvp. The unmotivating grind of huttball (because thats all you got to play EVER... i liked huttball though lol) without any incentives to actually keep grinding them. The oh so buggy and lagtastic raid that was Eternity Vault. The 2nd boss would not despawn thus running back would sometimes cause people to aggro him and cause us to wipe. 3rd boss was actually very cool puzzle. 4th boss was an awesome fight. Going into Soa and having to depend on luck to not get the 2nd level to have missing pieces of the floor and thunder balls that would not despawn when their target was being thrown around thus having a cluster f*** of damage. Even the 3rd phase were Soa would lag and miss the pylon to take off his shield. Awesome concept but very poorly programmed.

    SWtoR has improved TREMENDOUSLY, their custom gear system is the best I have used in a very long time, the raids are improving, and pvp is actually getting some attention (im still sadface since its still pretty stale).

    I recommend everyone to try the game out when it goes F2P its worth it 100%. But for the end game I personally will wait until they add more systems and content before paying for that.

     

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    I really doubt that is the reason. I am quite sure that the real downfall was poor support post release and snail speed at which they were churning out content.

    Guys... you cannot churn out content fast enough. It is the core problem of themepark games that rely on scripted instanced content.

    Trion did it so yes it can be done.

    Trion does not rely solely on singleplayer instanced storylines. Nor have they been very successful, they've had to merge servers more than twice.

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