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RUINED MMOPRG's: Raid/Group Finder

Arcondo87Arcondo87 Prince Albert, SKPosts: 94Member

My topic is about the exploration/game ruining Group finder! Now we all know what WoW has turned into...a lazy mans click fest! Why leave SW/Org when u can just stand outside the AH and click LFG/LFR till you die to get to max lvl? Where did this worlds sense of exploration and achievment go? The mmo game devs are bending over and kissing ppls you know what making there games for LAZY friendly.

Then ppl say well i dont have time to spamm LFG in a city. OR I only have 1hr a day to play!

To them i say this...MMORPG games arnt for you go play FPS, if you are looking for quick fast gameplay.

I can only PRAY/HOPE/DREAM!!!!! That Elders Scrolls, FF14 Reborn and many more new mmo's do not follow this path and ruin there game, rendering the world a compleat usless waist.

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Comments

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    They didn't ruin the genre alone. Instances were the first blow, then quest based leveling after that. And then phasing after that.

     

    There is pretty much ZERO difference now between MMOs and Diablo.

     

    It's really, REALLY pathetic.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Instancing ruined mmos
    Dungeon finder is a symptom not the disease
  • Mike-McQueenMike-McQueen Enfield, CTPosts: 243Member
    Lol I was gonna say instances but everyone beating me to it! Developers may never learn.

    I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    Thankfully it seems like SOMEONE with a big company behind them has woken up and realized that the direction of the genre the last 8 years is not sensible for anyone.

    I really hope Smed and SoE bring back true MMOs.

     

    In the meantime, Darkfall and Vanguard will have to do.

  • MyriaMyria Lowell, MAPosts: 570Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arcondo87

    Now we all know [...]

    We do, do we?

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Myria
    Originally posted by Arcondo87

    Now we all know [...]

    We do, do we?

    Yeah, less turned into, more "always has been". It's been the most casual MMO on the market since the day it launched. Its just been getting more casual to keep up.

  • TheSedatedTheSedated WormsPosts: 82Member

    It's not so much about the instancing and group finder, it's more about what is instanced and how the group finder is implemented. If we look at how Anarchy Online did it back in the day (before Lost Eden and Legacy of the Xan expansion packs) the game and the community really did benefit from it. Leveling in missions for example was completely instanced, but it wasn't hard to find a group. The people in your group did benefit a lot by getting a lot more xp in a lot less time. Then look at WoW, for example, where levelling in a full group can even slow you down because of a lack of mobs to kill etc. Then you have raids, in WoW and alike instanced, in AO they where more or less faction or even server wide open world activities.

     

    The group finder tool in AO is also great. You get all the necessary information, you can write a short message about what you're up to (or make fun of guild mates ^^ ) and you can still choose who'll be in your group.

     

    I wouldn't say instancing and group finder ruined MMORPGs, I'd rather say the way they're implemented in a special (but very wide spread) type of MMORPG causes problems.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    What's wrong with skipping to the good stuff?

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by TheSedated

    It's not so much about the instancing and group finder, it's more about what is instanced and how the group finder is implemented. If we look at how Anarchy Online did it back in the day (before Lost Eden and Legacy of the Xan expansion packs) the game and the community really did benefit from it. Leveling in missions for example was completely instanced, but it wasn't hard to find a group. The people in your group did benefit a lot by getting a lot more xp in a lot less time. Then look at WoW, for example, where levelling in a full group can even slow you down because of a lack of mobs to kill etc. Then you have raids, in WoW and alike instanced, in AO they where more or less faction or even server wide open world activities.

     

    The group finder tool in AO is also great. You get all the necessary information, you can write a short message about what you're up to (or make fun of guild mates ^^ ) and you can still choose who'll be in your group.

     

    I wouldn't say instancing and group finder ruined MMORPGs, I'd rather say the way they're implemented in a special (but very wide spread) type of MMORPG causes problems.

    Well designed MMORPGs have absolutely zero need for instancing. And we're not talking about a LFG tool, we're talking about the tool that picks you up and plops you in a dungeon with random people you'll never see again.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    What's wrong with skipping to the good stuff?

    Because it circumvents the entire purpose of massively multiplayer games?

    If you want to "skip to the good stuff" then play Diablo.

  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Thankfully it seems like SOMEONE with a big company behind them has woken up and realized that the direction of the genre the last 8 years is not sensible for anyone.

    I really hope Smed and SoE bring back true MMOs.

     

    In the meantime, Darkfall and Vanguard will have to do.

    If the future of MMOs is in Smed and $OEs hands, then we should be afraid... very afraid.  We do need something that takes the WoW formula and sends it through a shredder never to be seen again, but I just don't have faith in Smed or $OE to do that.

     

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  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    If you are fretting about how other people are playing an MMO, you're going to have a bad time.
  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    If there is even things to explore in the open world in that specific game you would have a point.
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by maplestone
    If you are fretting about how other people are playing an MMO, you're going to have a bad time.

    Thanks for spouting your reddit memes.

    We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

    Originally posted by Latronus
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Thankfully it seems like SOMEONE with a big company behind them has woken up and realized that the direction of the genre the last 8 years is not sensible for anyone.

    I really hope Smed and SoE bring back true MMOs.

     

    In the meantime, Darkfall and Vanguard will have to do.

    If the future of MMOs is in Smed and $OEs hands, then we should be afraid... very afraid.  We do need something that takes the WoW formula and sends it through a shredder never to be seen again, but I just don't have faith in Smed or $OE to do that.

     

    After Planetside 2, I've have renewed faith.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    What's wrong with skipping to the good stuff?

    Because it circumvents the entire purpose of massively multiplayer games?

    If you want to "skip to the good stuff" then play Diablo.

    Group finder does not make an MMORPG like Diablo. Obviously you don't care enough to make the distinction so I don't have to go any further than that.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • Threatlevel0Threatlevel0 Elizabethtown, KYPosts: 166Member Uncommon

    I love skipping right to the good stuff.   That is why I usually rush to max level so I can be the first to start queuing up for the real game.    It's like they put these whole worlds of pointless shiet in my lobby based games and I don't know why....

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    What's wrong with skipping to the good stuff?

    Because it circumvents the entire purpose of massively multiplayer games?

    If you want to "skip to the good stuff" then play Diablo.

    Group finder does not make an MMORPG like Diablo. Obviously you don't care enough to make the distinction so I don't have to go any further than that.

    Er, yes it does. Diablo is all about hopping into random servers and doing dungeon crawls with a couple of people. Or doing it with a few real life friends. You have no lasting relationship with the people beyond that.

    In WoW, you hop in a random dungeon, run through it on autopilot, never talking to anyone, then get ported out.

    It destroys the feel of the game world, removes socializing, and essentially, the entire point of the game. 6 man dungeons aren't massively multiplayer.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    To be painfully honest I am not totally against instancing. I am against amount of instancing in modern mmorpg's. It is like 5-10 x too much. It should be exception when there is not mean to do desired thing without instancing not it's goal.  

     

    To LFG / LFR tools. I won't speak about general population. I will speak only about myself.

     

    I don't want those in mmorpg I want to play. I also don't desire my mmorpg to be only or mainly about running instances which many mmorpg's currently are about.  Mmorpg design I like is when there is only few instances which are not core gameplay but rather an part of gameplay that cannot be achieved without instancing. Still not being main type of gameplay.

    If game is designed that way. That instances are present in gameplay but not being their most important part LFG / LFR tools and auto-teleprting can be non-present. Actually then it's presence can be not-desiered.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    What's wrong with skipping to the good stuff?

    Because it circumvents the entire purpose of massively multiplayer games?

    If you want to "skip to the good stuff" then play Diablo.

    Group finder does not make an MMORPG like Diablo. Obviously you don't care enough to make the distinction so I don't have to go any further than that.

    Well actually if you think about if a bit longer. It does.  Diablo non-pvp(I talk about whole franchise not D3) part is about doing certain bosses / places yourself or  with small group of other people.  You group either with soomeone you know or with some random people, appear in instanced location, kill mobs + boss, get loot, repeat or log out.

    Dunegons cross-server LFG in mmorpg's is not fundamentally diffrent from Diablo and arenas matchmaking is not fundamentally dffrent from arena pvp gameplay in fps, rts, dotas or other similar games.

    Sure if you cut this out or make it not only part of mmorpg that matters - then you automatically get rid of huge part of playerbase.Sure, Thing is that gameplay was added after mmorpg creation to expand on mmorpg playerbase and that's why big part of current mmorpg playerbase does migrate to game focused on instanced gameplay (various dotas & mobas & corps) and why mmorpg direction to change to follow almost purely matchmaking gameplay is failing to hold players for longer than few weeks to few months.

    Online matchmaking games (LoL, Wot, Vindisctus, Dungeon Fighter Online in Asia and similar games) are more and more important and mmorpg's even if they get more similar to them also by incorporating lfg auto-tools won't be able to compete with them in longer-term. Unless they became them and stop being mmorpg's.

    Mmorpg's is on road to became more niche again and that's not a bad thing.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    The only thing I've seen instancing do that cannot be done without instancing is a scripted, linear singleplayer cinematic. Something that MMOs shouldn't attempt to do, in my opinion. If you want to tell a story in an MMO, do it right. Tell a global story where everyone plays a part, like AC1. You'll never do a personal story better than a singleplayer game, so don't try so hard to do it.
  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

    Do you honestly believe you speak for millions of people?   Do you think you speak for me?
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by maplestone
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

    Do you honestly believe you speak for millions of people?   Do you think you speak for me?

    I do believe that my sentiments are shared by millions of veteran MMORPG gamers who haven't had a good game to call our own in a long long time.

    IF you don't enjoy those types of games, then you're in luck, the industry has been catering to you for the last 8 years. STop being selfish

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,927Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    They didn't ruin the genre alone. Instances were the first blow, then quest based leveling after that. And then phasing after that.

     

    There is pretty much ZERO difference now between MMOs and Diablo.

     

    It's really, REALLY pathetic.

    I have to disagree. Instances are actually what really allow for us to have persoanlized experiences and actually give us challenge. There is virutally no way you can take an instance and put it outside the world and expect the same challenge, it would easily be trivialized by players. 

     

    That being said, it doesn't mean that instances need to always be the way they are, nor are they needed in huge abundance. Its always possible to use instances in a more dynamic form like phasing to potentially have more of the effect of instancing without having to make an actual 'instance' so to speak. Its still not likely to make enough advancement to keep challenge in tact.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    STop being selfish

    This is the point of the debate where I should probably acknowledge that I don't use raidfinders/dungeonfinders.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by Purutzil

     

    That being said, it doesn't mean that instances need to always be the way they are, nor are they needed in huge abundance. Its always possible to use instances in a more dynamic form like phasing to potentially have more of the effect of instancing without having to make an actual 'instance' so to speak. Its still not likely to make enough advancement to keep challenge in tact.

    Phasing used in game world is actually worse for mmorpg  than instancing selected dungeons.

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