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DF:UW, paying for beta to continue

Ash_EmeraldAsh_Emerald austin, TXPosts: 10Member

When DF:UW releases, with no free public beta, only one thing is inevitable - we'll be paying to beta test the game for several months.  That, of course, will turn off vast numbers of players who will rightly believe that they shouldn't pay for a de facto beta.

I suspect it'll only be a matter of 2 or 3 months before DF:UW becomes as empty as the original Darkfall.

There's no way that a game as complicated as an MMORPG can be properly done without a beta.

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Comments

  • XaylinXaylin Fort Worth, TXPosts: 9Member
    Originally posted by Ash_Emerald

    When DF:UW releases, with no free public beta, only one thing is inevitable - we'll be paying to beta test the game for several months.  That, of course, will turn off vast numbers of players who will rightly believe that they shouldn't pay for a de facto beta.

    I suspect it'll only be a matter of 2 or 3 months before DF:UW becomes as empty as the original Darkfall.

    There's no way that a game as complicated as an MMORPG can be properly done without a beta.

    alot of AAA titles never have an open beta either.

  • zipzapzipzap HelsinkiPosts: 123Member
    Originally posted by Ash_Emerald

    When DF:UW releases, with no free public beta, only one thing is inevitable - we'll be paying to beta test the game for several months.  That, of course, will turn off vast numbers of players who will rightly believe that they shouldn't pay for a de facto beta.

    I suspect it'll only be a matter of 2 or 3 months before DF:UW becomes as empty as the original Darkfall.

    There's no way that a game as complicated as an MMORPG can be properly done without a beta.

    i thought DF1 was the beta :D

    no a side note... they should be more prepared this time  one would think

  • GwapoJoshGwapoJosh Auburn, INPosts: 989Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ash_Emerald

    When DF:UW releases, with no free public beta, only one thing is inevitable - we'll be paying to beta test the game for several months.  That, of course, will turn off vast numbers of players who will rightly believe that they shouldn't pay for a de facto beta.

    I suspect it'll only be a matter of 2 or 3 months before DF:UW becomes as empty as the original Darkfall.

    There's no way that a game as complicated as an MMORPG can be properly done without a beta.

    Free open betas aren't betas at all.. It's a way to hype a game.

    "You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
    image

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper logan lake, BCPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    this is not a new game, it's a 3 year old game that re-launched with some core features changes. it really does not need a beta. the game has been working for years.
  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by GwapoJosh
    Originally posted by Ash_Emerald

    When DF:UW releases, with no free public beta, only one thing is inevitable - we'll be paying to beta test the game for several months.  That, of course, will turn off vast numbers of players who will rightly believe that they shouldn't pay for a de facto beta.

    I suspect it'll only be a matter of 2 or 3 months before DF:UW becomes as empty as the original Darkfall.

    There's no way that a game as complicated as an MMORPG can be properly done without a beta.

    Free open betas aren't betas at all.. It's a way to hype a game.

    This is very true.

  • RaxeonRaxeon cedar falls, IAPosts: 2,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jakdstripper
    this is not a new game, it's a 3 year old game that re-launched with some core features changes. it really does not need a beta. the game has been working for years.

    yea but its looks like amuch better game so lets hope the code is optimized even more but i think rereleasing is the right thing to do too

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,976Member Uncommon
    You could wait a year or so until you feel the beta is over, right?

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • JupstoJupsto englandPosts: 2,087Member

    I kind of agree with OP, but these games are always the best at release when everything is new an pollitics are fresh.

    I couldn't play last launch due to crappy mobile internet, no way im missing out on this one even if it is buggy as shit.

    My blog: image

  • CecropiaCecropia The Great White North, ONPosts: 3,471Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Consensus

    I kind of agree with OP, but these games are always the best at release when everything is new an pollitics are fresh.

    I couldn't play last launch due to crappy mobile internet, no way im missing out on this one even if it is buggy as shit.

    Sadly, I missed the last launch myself. I chose to stay away due to all the crap I was reading on these forums in addition to some youtube videos that really didn't do the game justice. Oops! Won't be making that mistake twice, I'll be in Agon the moment I can login.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member

    Thats pretty much what Ive been saying, nothing has really changed with this game, they have moved some abilities around but its exactly the same game so it will end up exactly the same way as the first one.

    Tons of excitement then everyone leaving for the same reasons.  Free for all Full loot PvP with no meaning doesnt work for very many people.

  • RaxeonRaxeon cedar falls, IAPosts: 2,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by snapfusion

    Thats pretty much what Ive been saying, nothing has really changed with this game, they have moved some abilities around but its exactly the same game so it will end up exactly the same way as the first one.

    Tons of excitement then everyone leaving for the same reasons.  Free for all Full loot PvP with no meaning doesnt work for very many people.

    then your pretty uninformed then .the game is a diffreant beast but with some simulaties from the first df

  • ZushakonZushakon JönköpingPosts: 119Member
    Originally posted by snapfusion

    Thats pretty much what Ive been saying, nothing has really changed with this game, they have moved some abilities around but its exactly the same game so it will end up exactly the same way as the first one.

    Tons of excitement then everyone leaving for the same reasons.  Free for all Full loot PvP with no meaning doesnt work for very many people.

     

    The fatal errors from DF1 are fixed. And apart from said errors the game is way better than the rest of the crap on the market. So UW has all the potential in the world to become successful.

    Darkfall Unholy Wars:
    Zushakon Odi

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Originally posted by Ash_Emerald

    When DF:UW releases, with no free public beta, only one thing is inevitable - we'll be paying to beta test the game for several months.  That, of course, will turn off vast numbers of players who will rightly believe that they shouldn't pay for a de facto beta.

    I suspect it'll only be a matter of 2 or 3 months before DF:UW becomes as empty as the original Darkfall.

    There's no way that a game as complicated as an MMORPG can be properly done without a beta.

    DF:UW isn't a completely new game (it will play like one). Its redesign. The core concepts and systems are still going to be in the game. The new classes and abilities are just throw backs to things already working in game (other than blink and interruprts): AoE, Knock Back, Stun etc. Nothing is really needed to be tested to be honest. Esepcaially with a lot of the things that needed complete reworking, siege engines and ships, being absent from launch. 

     

    What drove people away from the game at launch was the following: Grind, lack of rp features, imbalance, and hacks. Hacks, grind, and imbalance seem to be fixed. The RP and sandbox community who weren't intrested in foremost PvP made up a minority of the game's population, even at launch. The biggest numbers came from games like Shadowbane and FFA DAoC servers. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member

    I notice a incostince and a contradiction in the post of many posters here.  Depending on the subject DF :UW is a completely new game or DF:UW is basically the old game with few changes. So what now ?

    AV pretty much are aware that they beta test and they commented in last radio show in greek that they test it when customer login after the launch because they have limited amount of beta testers in the closed beta.

    So yes, they fully aware of doing a payed beta test  and also said that most features aren't ready  (market feature etc.) so could be labeled as alpha test really cause beta test requires a feature ready product.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    I notice a incostince and a contradiction in the post of many posters here.  Depending on the subject DF :UW is a completely new game or DF:UW is basically the old game with few changes. So what now ?

    AV pretty much are aware that they beta test and they commented in last radio show in greek that they test it when customer login after the launch because they have limited amount of beta testers in the closed beta.

    So yes, they fully aware of doing a payed beta test  and also said that most features aren't ready  (market feature etc.) so could be labeled as alpha test really cause beta test requires a feature ready product.

    Its going to play like a completely different game because of the changes to the character development system and its a completely different than DFO at either launch. But its essentially the same game since the way combat works, sieges, etc have not been changed. 

    Its a combination of both new and old game. It will play different enough to warrant a release, espeically in light of a complete code overhul, but it retain enough of its old mecanics to say its not going to be that much different on the whole. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • SeronysSeronys Windsor, ONPosts: 43Member
    Originally posted by snapfusion

    Thats pretty much what Ive been saying, nothing has really changed with this game, they have moved some abilities around but its exactly the same game so it will end up exactly the same way as the first one.

    Tons of excitement then everyone leaving for the same reasons.  Free for all Full loot PvP with no meaning doesnt work for very many people.

    are you serious? PVP without meaning? i suppose you are one of those types of people that require a little medal to pop up on your screen saying ACHIEVEMENT COMPLETE! congrats now you have your meaning, a useless little icon that says you did something. How bout PVP for the loot, becoming rich, how bout PVP for a holding, claiming territory, PVP for a mob spawn, claiming rights on your farming, PVP for tresspassing, showing you own that area, and anyone that comes to it is a fucking deadman. PVP to just be the most badass motherfucker you can be, so when people see you, they turn and run instead of fighting you, cause they know, they're about to get their asses handed to them. It's a sandbox game, not the hold your hands give you things most people are used to today.

     

    As for the beta question, DF1 was the beta, we are all hoping that AV has learned from their mistakes. Even if the launch of 2.0 was beta, it wouldn't matter, because this game is going to be so fucking epic right from the start people won't give a shit.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by Seronys

    are you serious? PVP without meaning? i suppose you are one of those types of people that require a little medal to pop up on your screen saying ACHIEVEMENT COMPLETE! congrats now you have your meaning, a useless little icon that says you did something. How bout PVP for the loot, becoming rich, how bout PVP for a holding, claiming territory, PVP for a mob spawn, claiming rights on your farming, PVP for tresspassing, showing you own that area, and anyone that comes to it is a fucking deadman. PVP to just be the most badass motherfucker you can be, so when people see you, they turn and run instead of fighting you, cause they know, they're about to get their asses handed to them. It's a sandbox game, not the hold your hands give you things most people are used to today.

     

    What you bring up are PvP for bragging rights. Sorry but there are enough FPS i can login and can do lots of fighting for these reason. For a persistant world and a MMORPG i demand , and i believe the genre exists just because of that, that my actions have impact on the world. The world itself  should be interactive and should change conditions.

    You own static meaningless holdings, static spawns, staic ressources that can be found elsewhere and everywhere., the area is not more special then any other area, you can have you area and bragg about   all other areas in the game are good enough to replace your area.  

    More meaningfull is it when ressources arent global but regional and differ from each other, when mob spawns decay if hunted too much, when mobs are special to a area and  move away if hunted too much, if gear made from ressources are different and special and crafter can excell in what they do so there is a reason to protect that special area and its ressources.

    All that can't be found in DF. What can be found in DF you can find in any shooter and better executed even ...So why not play a shooter and bragg about the PvP skill ?   

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • SeronysSeronys Windsor, ONPosts: 43Member
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
    Originally posted by Seronys

    are you serious? PVP without meaning? i suppose you are one of those types of people that require a little medal to pop up on your screen saying ACHIEVEMENT COMPLETE! congrats now you have your meaning, a useless little icon that says you did something. How bout PVP for the loot, becoming rich, how bout PVP for a holding, claiming territory, PVP for a mob spawn, claiming rights on your farming, PVP for tresspassing, showing you own that area, and anyone that comes to it is a fucking deadman. PVP to just be the most badass motherfucker you can be, so when people see you, they turn and run instead of fighting you, cause they know, they're about to get their asses handed to them. It's a sandbox game, not the hold your hands give you things most people are used to today.

     

    What you bring up are PvP for bragging rights. Sorry but there are enough FPS i can login and can do lots of fighting for these reason. For a persistant world and a MMORPG i demand , and i believe the genre exists just because of that, that my actions have impact on the world. The world itself  should be interactive and should change conditions.

    You own static meaningless holdings, static spawns, staic ressources that can be found elsewhere and everywhere., the area is not more special then any other area, you can have you area and bragg about   all other areas in the game are good enough to replace your area.  

    More meaningfull is it when ressources arent global but regional and differ from each other, when mob spawns decay if hunted too much, when mobs are special to a area and  move away if hunted too much, if gear made from ressources are different and special and crafter can excell in what they do so there is a reason to protect that special area and its ressources.

    All that can't be found in DF. What can be found in DF you can find in any shooter and better executed even ...So why not play a shooter and bragg about the PvP skill ?   

    what are you talking about, there are certain mob spawns that can be only be found in certain areas, what shooter is a persistant world, other than war z thats coming out, certain holdings are ofc better than others, provide better resources, allow for better farming, and gear is dependant on what resource you use to craft it... look into this game before you comment on it.

  • SirBalinSirBalin Joppa, MDPosts: 1,150Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ash_Emerald

    When DF:UW releases, with no free public beta, only one thing is inevitable - we'll be paying to beta test the game for several months.  That, of course, will turn off vast numbers of players who will rightly believe that they shouldn't pay for a de facto beta.

    I suspect it'll only be a matter of 2 or 3 months before DF:UW becomes as empty as the original Darkfall.

    There's no way that a game as complicated as an MMORPG can be properly done without a beta.

    Darkfall 1 was the beta

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Open beta do nothing but offer a free marketing hype for a game and to see if their server infrastuctrue can handle so many people ingame at one time.  Nothing more, nothing less.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,976Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
    Originally posted by Seronys

    are you serious? PVP without meaning? i suppose you are one of those types of people that require a little medal to pop up on your screen saying ACHIEVEMENT COMPLETE! congrats now you have your meaning, a useless little icon that says you did something. How bout PVP for the loot, becoming rich, how bout PVP for a holding, claiming territory, PVP for a mob spawn, claiming rights on your farming, PVP for tresspassing, showing you own that area, and anyone that comes to it is a fucking deadman. PVP to just be the most badass motherfucker you can be, so when people see you, they turn and run instead of fighting you, cause they know, they're about to get their asses handed to them. It's a sandbox game, not the hold your hands give you things most people are used to today.

     

    What you bring up are PvP for bragging rights. Sorry but there are enough FPS i can login and can do lots of fighting for these reason. For a persistant world and a MMORPG i demand , and i believe the genre exists just because of that, that my actions have impact on the world. The world itself  should be interactive and should change conditions.

    You own static meaningless holdings, static spawns, staic ressources that can be found elsewhere and everywhere., the area is not more special then any other area, you can have you area and bragg about   all other areas in the game are good enough to replace your area.  

    More meaningfull is it when ressources arent global but regional and differ from each other, when mob spawns decay if hunted too much, when mobs are special to a area and  move away if hunted too much, if gear made from ressources are different and special and crafter can excell in what they do so there is a reason to protect that special area and its ressources.

    All that can't be found in DF. What can be found in DF you can find in any shooter and better executed even ...So why not play a shooter and bragg about the PvP skill ?   

    I dunno, this sounds a lot like most of the territory in 0.0 space in EVE yet players fight furiously for it, killing thousands of ships daily just to take over these "static" areas, I guess because despite the vastness of space, the truly good areas are in short supply and worth fighting for.

    Don't know how DF:UW will shake out, I did notice they planned to shrink the size of the game world, that would imply that there will be a scarcity of territory and resources making them worth fighting for and holding, but perhaps not, we'll have to wait and see.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • UzikUzik Jamaica, NYPosts: 280Member

    DF1 was the beta.

     

    Hopefully DFUW learned from its shortcomings.

    (Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
    http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
    Originally posted by Seronys

    are you serious? PVP without meaning? i suppose you are one of those types of people that require a little medal to pop up on your screen saying ACHIEVEMENT COMPLETE! congrats now you have your meaning, a useless little icon that says you did something. How bout PVP for the loot, becoming rich, how bout PVP for a holding, claiming territory, PVP for a mob spawn, claiming rights on your farming, PVP for tresspassing, showing you own that area, and anyone that comes to it is a fucking deadman. PVP to just be the most badass motherfucker you can be, so when people see you, they turn and run instead of fighting you, cause they know, they're about to get their asses handed to them. It's a sandbox game, not the hold your hands give you things most people are used to today.

     

    What you bring up are PvP for bragging rights. Sorry but there are enough FPS i can login and can do lots of fighting for these reason. For a persistant world and a MMORPG i demand , and i believe the genre exists just because of that, that my actions have impact on the world. The world itself  should be interactive and should change conditions.

    You own static meaningless holdings, static spawns, staic ressources that can be found elsewhere and everywhere., the area is not more special then any other area, you can have you area and bragg about   all other areas in the game are good enough to replace your area.  

    More meaningfull is it when ressources arent global but regional and differ from each other, when mob spawns decay if hunted too much, when mobs are special to a area and  move away if hunted too much, if gear made from ressources are different and special and crafter can excell in what they do so there is a reason to protect that special area and its ressources.

    All that can't be found in DF. What can be found in DF you can find in any shooter and better executed even ...So why not play a shooter and bragg about the PvP skill ?   

    I dunno, this sounds a lot like most of the territory in 0.0 space in EVE yet players fight furiously for it, killing thousands of ships daily just to take over these "static" areas, I guess because despite the vastness of space, the truly good areas are in short supply and worth fighting for.

    Don't know how DF:UW will shake out, I did notice they planned to shrink the size of the game world, that would imply that there will be a scarcity of territory and resources making them worth fighting for and holding, but perhaps not, we'll have to wait and see.

     

    well from the info we have so far is they plan probably a good change for the holdings become a value. They plan in DF:UW that the are is divided in  "different level" which will reflect on the mobs and the ressource levels on that area. This is a mixed bag sandbox wise but at least it could give holdings a bigger meaning in what environment they reside.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • jdlamson75jdlamson75 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 984Member Uncommon

    If Darkfall 1.0 was the beta, then it was not only the most fun beta I've ever played, but more fun than any game truly released that I've ever played. 

     

    The King is dead; long live the King. 

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    What you bring up are PvP for bragging rights. Sorry but there are enough FPS i can login and can do lots of fighting for these reason. For a persistant world and a MMORPG i demand , and i believe the genre exists just because of that, that my actions have impact on the world. The world itself  should be interactive and should change conditions.

    You own static meaningless holdings, static spawns, staic ressources that can be found elsewhere and everywhere., the area is not more special then any other area, you can have you area and bragg about   all other areas in the game are good enough to replace your area.  

    More meaningfull is it when ressources arent global but regional and differ from each other, when mob spawns decay if hunted too much, when mobs are special to a area and  move away if hunted too much, if gear made from ressources are different and special and crafter can excell in what they do so there is a reason to protect that special area and its ressources.

    All that can't be found in DF. What can be found in DF you can find in any shooter and better executed even ...So why not play a shooter and bragg about the PvP skill ?   

    I dunno, this sounds a lot like most of the territory in 0.0 space in EVE yet players fight furiously for it, killing thousands of ships daily just to take over these "static" areas, I guess because despite the vastness of space, the truly good areas are in short supply and worth fighting for.

    Don't know how DF:UW will shake out, I did notice they planned to shrink the size of the game world, that would imply that there will be a scarcity of territory and resources making them worth fighting for and holding, but perhaps not, we'll have to wait and see.

     

     Well for one, politic and diplomacy in EVE plays a much larger role than it does in DarkFall (perhaps due to the size of the game, or the size of its alliances). Another thing is that I don't recall EVE having a global economy per se. In DarkFall, any items can be access from any bank anywhere across the world. In fact, it wasn't until 2011 I believe that they finally addressed your clan's enemies being able to use the bank in your clan city to take out items from their bank. It's silly isn't it? So people raiding a city, pull out all the items they needed without any risk of losing them through travel, and do what they came to do - destroy. Now at least you can't take items out from an enemy's bank, but you can still take your items out from any other banks around the world (except NPC Cities if you're red)

    This is yet one of the many reasons why Clan Holdings hold so little value. Being able to access anything from anywhere means that the need to acquire and control strategic holdings near specific monsters is much less than it would be if the game would have regional or local banking. Right now, people will just bind to a house nearby or use runes, teleport there, kill a bunch of monsters, teleport back to your clan city with a recall skill.

    Another thing with DarkFall that has ticked off most sandboxers is that you cannot build a clan city wherever you wish. They are only pre-located, non-customizable holdings that must be captured.  Same goes for housing (pre-located in villages with capturable points), although you can add a carpet, a crafting station, a garden and/or an NPC Vendor (all of which must be dropped, as well as the house Deed from Chaos Chests which spawns randomly across the world and only have a low drop rate of such items) .

    And the list goes on and on. ;)

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

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