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New dungeon will give us stronger armour

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  • EvilGeekEvilGeek londonPosts: 1,226Member Uncommon

    Sounds to me the improvement in the armour will be to help tackle the mobs deeper in the new dungeon, I'll be really surprised if the armour helps outside the dungeon/against the new mobs. Doubt it will be global.

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  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    I love the concept of the new dungeon. I don't like that they are introducing "end game gear inflation".

    IMO, they could have introduced a new tier of armor that was easier to fine tune stat-wise, with out increasing the overall power level. Dungeon armor already offers some stat distributions not found elsewhere. Infusions could have allowed a high degree of stat customization and that would have been enough of a step up to make the new "grind" worth while.

    As to the concept of skins vs. power as "grind reward", I think the problem that arose was that most dungeons have pretty horrible skins. It seems the art dept. just wasn't up to the task of producing a steady stream of desirable skins in order to provide the proper incentive for dungeon progression. I'd say at least half the armor in the game is pretty excellent, but a number of skins are pretty poor and a lot of those are tied to dungeons.

    I'm guessing it's a lot easier to add gear inflation than to go out and find artists capable of producing armor skins of the quality needed to incentivize dungeon grinds...

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
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  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    Originally posted by Nitth

    Originally posted by Rimmersman

    Originally posted by muffins89 yeah sounds like they caved.
    They have no choice but to cave in, the only way they are going to keep people playing is through end level item grinding. The problem is no matter what new dungeons they bring in they are always going to be just a zerg rez fest.

    Now correct me if im wrong, But should not their primary goal be to get people to buy from the Gem Store? Not seeing how setting vertical progression of gear outside the store is gona help that goal.

    Uh, I think making the game fun should be their primary goal?

    Actually in a P2P subscription game that is the primary goal (or if not fun addictive) because then people continue to subscribe, B2P/F2P has to take some of the fun out of the game in order to sell it to you in dollar chunks.

    I don't see them too far off from each other, at least on paper.  If a game isn't fun, then people won't subscribe.  If a game isn't fun then people won't spend money in the cash shop.

    In reality both revenue models gate something behind a paywall.

    In a F2P game the options for locking can be more diverse.  It can be like LotRO where you have to buy quest packs and locked content areas.  It can be like NCSoft and PWE games where you get boosts and buffs to make your life easier and progression go faster.

    In P2P games the fun is usually gated behind a content upgrade.  Look at RIFT or EQ2 for this model.  In RIFT if you don't pony up the extra cash for the xpac, in addition to you sub, then you don't get to level, can't wear the new gear, don't get any new goodies, the new class/soul options are restricted.  In essence you are nerfed to a disadvantage unless you pay up.  This is true with EQ2 xpacs too.  They throw everyone a bone, but keep all the fun locked squarely behind the upgrade paywall.

    Either model needs to extort funds from cheap gamers somehow.  It all depends on which sort works for the player.  The whole strong arm comes in because people have already invested some time and money in the game, regardless of the payement model, and the developer is counting on the player to pay up so they don't lose out.  Where else will the player go if they don't pay? At least that I think is the concept behind forced upgrades.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon

    I dont think the addition of a new tier of gear by itself is the issue. I just think that for some, this is the final straw in a list of letdowns.Lets be honest for a moment, the gw2 that we have in front of us is not quite like the one anet told us about. From an outsiders view, i dont think its a big deal especially since crafting will most likely stay up to date with the new tiers added. But some people seem disillusioned and i cant really blame them.

    It started with dynamic events being redundant and farmable, then rng cash shop items, and now content patches that add more powerful gear. Its really hard to look past these as anet claimed a changing dynamic world that players could permanently affect, bashed sub fees saying it was basically ripping off customers, and shunning carrot on a stick tactics claiming that "fun" was all you needed.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    The fairest model is eve.
    Pay a sub, no box price, free expansions.
  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    I dont think the addition of a new tier of gear by itself is the issue. I just think that for some, this is the final straw in a list of letdowns.Lets be honest for a moment, the gw2 that we have in front of us is not quite like the one anet told us about. From an outsiders view, i dont think its a big deal especially since crafting will most likely stay up to date with the new tiers added. But some people seem disillusioned and i cant really blame them.

    It started with dynamic events being redundant and farmable, then rng cash shop items, and now content patches that add more powerful gear. Its really hard to look past these as anet claimed a changing dynamic world that players could permanently affect, bashed sub fees saying it was basically ripping off customers, and shunning carrot on a stick tactics claiming that "fun" was all you needed.

     

    You underestimate how big of an issue this is to many. The official forums really show this. I have dozens of tiered gear progression MMOs under my belt. One of the biggest Anet promises for this game, was not having to go through that. I could WvW and be on equal footing. I could pve and be on equal footing. I could take long breaks, come back and be on equat footing.

    The progression was suppose to come in other forums, cosmetic, brag weapons, etc. 

    If they go back on their word, then the game morphs quickly into every other MMO from the past 8 years. So then I have to ask myself, why am I playing it? It becomes harder to justify. 

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,279Member Uncommon

    holy S%*@ Official forums [MEGA THREAD]

    800 post 14k views already.

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    holy S%*@ Official forums [MEGA THREAD]

    800 post 14k views already.

    Yeah they are getting ripped a new ahole. Something similar happened with the Black Lion Chests during Halloween. However, this is esclating faster. 

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,928Member Uncommon

    The idea of doing dungeons just for cosmetic gear sounded OK to me.  But once I played the game, I realized that the dungeons weren't fun enough (for me) just to get better looking gear.  Apparently a lot of people felt similarly.  If I'm going to grind dungeons for gear, it should at least be an improvement over what I already have.

     

    I applaud them for trying something different and being willing to make adjustments based on feedback.  It will probably be a pain to get runs for the old dungeons though, if you want the look of that armor.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,928Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Pouf

    wow i'm Really and kinda pissed at the same time , I am not playing anymore but I got my full flamearmor set before leaving KNOWING that they said that end game gear will be best for a lot of time because progression will be horizontal.

     

    Now I know that all the time I "wasted" doing cathedral of flame again and again to grind a set was "useless" since if I relog in 6 months my gear will probably be outdated by a lot.. Wow..

     

    So this game really is like the other ones..

     

    Meh.

    It's not useless if you like the look of that gear and want to transfer it to gear with improved stats, assuming they still allow that with ascended gear.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,279Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jyiiga
    Originally posted by bcbully

    holy S%*@ Official forums [MEGA THREAD]

    800 post 14k views already.

    Yeah they are getting ripped a new ahole. Something similar happened with the Black Lion Chests during Halloween. However, this is esclating faster. 

    The best part about it is the community is split right down the middle. 

     

     

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    I dont think the addition of a new tier of gear by itself is the issue. I just think that for some, this is the final straw in a list of letdowns.Lets be honest for a moment, the gw2 that we have in front of us is not quite like the one anet told us about. From an outsiders view, i dont think its a big deal especially since crafting will most likely stay up to date with the new tiers added. But some people seem disillusioned and i cant really blame them.

    It started with dynamic events being redundant and farmable, then rng cash shop items, and now content patches that add more powerful gear. Its really hard to look past these as anet claimed a changing dynamic world that players could permanently affect, bashed sub fees saying it was basically ripping off customers, and shunning carrot on a stick tactics claiming that "fun" was all you needed.

     

    For Some and at the end of the day it's a video game, hope to God no one thought otherwise.

    Context

    Light Blue and the fact of all the previous things stated, however won't fully know till Friday(I'm assuming)

    Story Mode from Manifesto

    That's subjective because to [me] it does lmao.

    So it's really subjective, from what I see it comes from both sides, I really can't blame either side :( 

     

     

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    And thus GW2 joins the 'gear grind' like every other MMO.

    Thought GW2 was advertised to not have 'traditional themepark MMO endgame'?

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member
    This all seems a little premature.  It's not like we're at the point where we can change their direction, so might as well wait the few days and see what the deal really is, before getting all worked up over it.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by botrytis

    Originally posted by deakon

    Originally posted by bcbully Gg. Let the "gear grind" begin muhahahhh lmao.
    Its better to have gear to grind for than just having the grind   Now if they could just add some progression to leveling beyond 40 the game might actually manage to keep my interest beyond a couple of hours a month (if that)
    Sorry - now GW2 is just like EVERY other game out there. They caved to the hardcore whiners and not worrying about the casual player. That is sad.

     

    It's not even that, Its logical sense in an rpg to have continual character progression.

    Striving for statistical parity is nonsense in a rpg, May as well play a shooter.

    The problem is that if you use ANet's original philosophy, these dungeons wouldn't be the only way to get these new armors and weapons.  So, they are essentially taking on the raid or die mantle if you want top gear.

     

    It's not only ironic, but a definite shift in their design philosophy.

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  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,279Member Uncommon
    I wonder what ilevel Ascended gear is.
  • Deerhunter71Deerhunter71 Richmond, VAPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Gg. Let the "gear grind" begin muhahahhh lmao.

    LOL yup - the holy grail game where there is no gear grind....  Looks like they see how short sighted they were.....

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I like the idea of a randomly generated dungeon in the vein of Torchlight.

    What I think they really need though is.
    1 names on in pvp, such a small change that will boost pvp rivalry and longevity a lot.
    2 random invasion events, that trigger a server wide alarm. Like tabular rasa / rift but ramped up more with consequences for failure. E.g. one of the dragons sends their army to attack rata sum, if you don't fend them off its inaccessible for a week, or until players clear them out
    3 some sort of reward / goal for consistent territory holding in WvW. Ideally some sort if darkness falls set up (which TESO is doing)
    4 ways to earn cash in WvW so you're not forced into pve to pay for it.
    5 guild housing, with a group crafting system to support it. Team based crafting would be a cool new feature.
    6 competative pve leaderboards with titles. Whoever does the fastest run of a dungeon gets unique title and cosmetic gear associated with it. If someone else does it faster they get the title instead.
    7 likewise with people with the top spvp rankings, unique cosmetic gear and titles you can wear in pve and WvW.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,279Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Gg. Let the "gear grind" begin muhahahhh lmao.

    LOL yup - the holy grail game where there is no gear grind....  Looks like they see how short sighted they were.....

    I'm getting interested again. Let's see if we can get a damage meter in the next patch. 

  • stealthbrstealthbr BrasiliaPosts: 1,053Member
    ROFL! I knew this would happen
  • clumsytoes44clumsytoes44 portland, ORPosts: 463Member
    Lmao man I need a huge bag of popcorn for this wonderfull S-storm. I played GW1 for 7 year's with no problem because gear had very little effect imo, it was what skill's you had on your hotbar. And with over 400 skill's per class, there was alot of creativity to be had. Imo A-net's little french poodle isn't walking so strait with the release of GW2.
  • nationalcitynationalcity Decatur, MIPosts: 330Member Uncommon
     And so it begins, so much for just vanity items at endgame and no gear treadmill lol....
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon

    Lol sound like Anet want GW2 to be more like Rift. Lol.

    notice all this stuff they doing around Rift's new Expansion release date. And Ascendant armor? Come on... Lol. Good job Trion. Hopefully Trion can take WvW idea like in GW2, and GW2 can take Zone Invasions and Raid dungeons like in Rift.

    image

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Lol sound like Anet want GW2 to be more like Rift. Lol.

    notice all this stuff they doing around Rift's new Expansion release date. And Ascendant armor? Come on... Lol. Good job Trion. Hopefully Trion can take WvW idea like in GW2, and GW2 can take Zone Invasions and Raid dungeons like in Rift.

    Problem for ArenaNet is there are other MMO that do the treadmill item grind better.

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  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Gg. Let the "gear grind" begin muhahahhh lmao.

    LOL yup - the holy grail game where there is no gear grind....  Looks like they see how short sighted they were.....

    I'm getting interested again. Let's see if we can get a damage meter in the next patch. 

    Who needs a DPS meter - only those who epeen - look I DPS much better than you. Just remember, there is no healer besides you in this game.

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    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

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