Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Main reason why SWTOR flopped?

123468

Comments

  • mechtech256mechtech256 dallas, TXPosts: 206Member

    It failed because it was $15 a month while catering to a mainstream userbase, case closed.

     

    that business model is dead unless you're a niche game.

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by mechtech256

    It failed because it was $15 a month while catering to a mainstream userbase, case closed.

     

    that business model is dead unless you're a niche game.

    you actually believe the "state of the game" letter?

    Woah.

     

    So you say, gambling boxes, paying for skill bars and getting nickeled and dimed for standard features is great and will save this game?

     

    Sorry, but -- lol.

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
    image

  • KazaraKazara merritt island, FLPosts: 1,075Member Uncommon

    Voted "Other" because of no "All of the above" option. I would also add:

     

    *Dead, static worlds

    *Meaningless crafting

    *Little to no non-combatant activities

     

    The lack of meaningful crafting, housing, chat bubbles, and non-combatant activites didn't help SWTOR either.

     

     

     

     

    image

  • GrunchGrunch yuma, AZPosts: 493Member
    Horrible end game pvp. The ORvR was a joke. I actually enjoyed the gameplay and had a blast during the lower levels.

    "I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,718Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy

    SWTOR at its core is a single player game with multiplayer functionality. You do not need to pay a monthly fee to play ME3, and that is why people do not want to pay a monthly fee for SWTOR.

    Exactly this. Maybe some people disagree with it (Mike even wrote a column, why TOR is NOT a singleplayer game :) ), but it still is the truth. I can play any time I want with GTA's or the Elder Scroll games without any additional fee. TOR is the same, the only difference is that EA promote it as an mmo. So what? I don't pay for cosmetic fluff (= most mmo's with cash shop), I don't pay for gambling (= PWE lockboxes), and I definitely won't pay for a chat window and for occasionally see other players in-game (yep, = TOR)

    Edit: the last part left out :) So, I'd pay for content. They give me content, I give them money. That's how it works. Expansions, new classes, extended crafting or housing, etc. I'd pay for in mmo's. And I pay for it in single player games too, one time with the box. And not every month, like they wanted it in case of TOR.

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member

    If the person that plays SWTOR likes the game, he will sub no doubt, there's no reason to F2P if you're enjoying the game- you're handicapping yourself if you stay F2P, their F2P model is a ridiculous joke. You know EA/Bioware will be receiving emails complaining about how crappy the F2P is, after declaring the sub model dead.


    If I ever bother to play SWTOR I'll probably spend my cartel on the 2 quickbars and be done with it. In City of Heroes there was little I wanted on the market besides enabling invention origins for 30 days and I had 4500 cash points to blow (30 day IO costed 180).

    image
    image

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Obraik
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    There were too many things to choose just one.  Overall, the combination of those things caused me to burn out quickly and lose my will to log in.

     

    I can't help but think that if SWTOR had been more like SWG (pre-NGE) and less like WoW it would have been more successful. Still....I enjoyed the game for the brief time I played it and don't regret buying it.  Live and learn, I say. :)

       You are one of many people who say this, but the fact is that SWG was a failure so Sony instituted changes which kept the game afloat for awhile but was still a failure

    Except, SWG didn't fail.  SWG had more success than SWTOR has had.

       That is a flawed aruguement because TOR has not been out very long. Look at Vanguard, UO, Asherons call, the realm.  games that have been going on for year after year with very few players.  The fact is that Sony saw the game as a failure because of its population and changed it to something they thought would increase it and that failed-so it was a double failure

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Yeah, all of them and then some, but MAIN reason would be End Game - not enough to keep you playing once maxed.

    SWG did not have space to begin with, but its open worlds / sandbox style, many customisable professions and crafting systems etc kept me busy until JTL came

    For me, the main reason is that it didnt have a good engine for large scale anything.

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

  • ZaltarkZaltark Lockhart, TXPosts: 421Member

    EA is the reason.

    Seriously, now theyre going to charge in order to have hotbars. MONEY for UI elements. What are they going to do next, take out the map unless you pay for it.

    EA is greedy and has no interest in quality games.

  • stevebmbsqdstevebmbsqd Orlando, FLPosts: 448Member
    For me it was kind of like GW2 and a few of the other recently released themeparks, it just doesn't have any real longevity. There is nothing to keep my playing after level cap. I think SWTOR had a little more replayability due to having better storylines (GW2 storylines were horrible) but in the end it just wasn't enough.
  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,942Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Yeah, all of them and then some, but MAIN reason would be End Game - not enough to keep you playing once maxed.

    SWG did not have space to begin with, but its open worlds / sandbox style, many customisable professions and crafting systems etc kept me busy until JTL came

    For me, the main reason is that it didnt have a good engine for large scale anything.

    Ummm... I don't know what you are talking about there, in the original game, there was 150 vs 150 PvP that rolled from Bestine to Anchorhead for hours.

    There were several times I had 100+ people on my screen fighting at once.

    And it worked fine on a not even top end system.

     

    Post NGE, yeah, you couldn't have more than 30-40 people in an area without lagging the hell out of stuff, but that was just one of many things SOE broke with the NGE and they did not refresh the server tech very much after the population tanked.

    So, there was nothing wrong with the SWG engine (no collision detection notwithstanding) until SOE revamped the game, twice.

     

     

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    There were too many things to choose just one.  Overall, the combination of those things caused me to burn out quickly and lose my will to log in.

     

    I can't help but think that if SWTOR had been more like SWG (pre-NGE) and less like WoW it would have been more successful. Still....I enjoyed the game for the brief time I played it and don't regret buying it.  Live and learn, I say. :)

       You are one of many people who say this, but the fact is that SWG was a failure so Sony instituted changes which kept the game afloat for awhile but was still a failure

    I guess this goes to show that 'Failure' is a relative term. 8 years of subscription; Fans who wish it was still running; Comes up anecdotally as a model when crafting, space combat, and many other systems are discussed.

    At this point I am disgusted by the comparison. The two games share the same IP but that is it. SWTOR isn't worthy to be mentioned in comparison to SWG.

       They are actually different games, the problem is SWG fans thought they were getting SWG2, they refused to research the game , they did not play the beta, they did not understand that Bioware was making the game.  It is hard to compare them, SWG had a more open world, get a speeder right away (post nge i believe) and have fun driving around, good crafting and harvesting (if you really get into harvesting) and a good space game, TOR has better production, voice overs, cut scenes, combat, story progression, performance, graphics (it is newer after all), small grouping, flash points.   SWG always felt to ME like a chat room combined with a sandbox and a very realistic (to realistic, do i really want to spend my game time being a dancer?) SWG world,      Tor reminds me of a single player with mmo elements and Bioware elements, WOW like but with much better story etc, linier world.  Both have their good points and bad points.     By the way length of time does not necessarily mean success, look at Vanguard, UO, the realm, asherons call. It simply means it has rabid fans (although few in number) and the developer has the resources to keep said game going.

  • DraronDraron A town in, KYPosts: 993Member
    Originally posted by Obraik

    No, SWG's subs topped out at around the 300-400k mark.  In pre-WoW time, this was very successful for an MMO - Everquest was really the only other Western MMO to have hit higher.  They hit 1 million boxes sold in August 2005

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/star-wars-galaxies-sales-top-a-million-units

    The link you offered shows 1 million sold but 250k subs - a 25% retention rate, and that was just after an expansion. Much less than the "tortanic" which at there latest report had at least 33% which is what SWG was after the CU (though it crashed yet again after the NGE), and I'd bet an expansion for SWTOR would bump it up way further than 25% when that time comes. Even if SWTOR fell to 25% itself a few months from now, they both were pretty much following the same trend retention wise.

    SWG isn't the success people on this board claims it was.

  • NagilumSadowNagilumSadow Atlanta, GAPosts: 299Member

    I chose "Linear worlds," but, as we know, that is only the beginning. I don't mean to sound ouster, but I would like to see EA/Bio pull the plug on this one; we all know a great SW mmo is possible, and this should have been the one. Some one else deserves a shot at making a SW mmorpg, and I love the old republic timeline but TOR is ridiculously bad from the engine up.

    Hopefully, TOR will serve as an object lesson on "what not to do" in creating an mmorpg. MMO developers please stay away from the "gaming experience" philosophy though it were the plague.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet
     they did not refresh the server tech very much after the population tanked.

     

     

     

    The lag post NGE was down to the code, even if it had the best server tech it would still have lagged. The only way they could have fixed it was to rewrite the game from the ground up.

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon

    Also keep in mind..

         In SWTOR you have a Smuggler that doesn't smuggle... You have a Bounty Hunter that doesn't hunt..  And the game is riddled with illogical and contradition..... Prime Example:  Who has played the Sith Inq?  I have and at the end of your storyline we are suppose to be on the dark council.. RIGHT?   But soon as you leave that cut scene after beating the big guy.. You are right back to being a PEON doing dailies....... Really?  Dark council does dailies? This just shows to me how 1/2 assed things were done..

  • LugorsLugors EarthPosts: 180Member Uncommon

    The failure was one of game design and leadership at EA.


    The game had great graphics with poor art design.


    Delivered a story driven MMO, and forgot the "and then..."


    Outsourced the game engine, and lacked the internal know how to get the most out of it.


    Planned ambitious open world PvP without the hardware to handle the load nor a purpose behind actually doing it.


     

    The game is actually less than the sum of it's parts.  The lead producer has the responsibilty to hold the production team to a vision and create a game in line with that vision.  The suits at EA saw WoW with lightsabers and thought "how could this go wrong, lets throw enough money at it, and it'll work." 

  • UronksurUronksur Redmond, WAPosts: 311Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Clawzon

    The game had an excellent gamedeveloper in BioWare, it had economic power in EA and an outstanding IP in Star Wars!

    But along the way something went wrong, very wrong! What?

     

     

     

     

    I think they should have tried to get away from the WoW gameplay style i.e. the abilities and talents and so on. I'm not particularly fond of The Secret World's skill wheel thing, but even that would have been more interesting.

    Then I think there was far too much linearity and railroading. The world should have been much more explorable and open. Crafting is pretty abysmal. They didnt make open world PvP or any real "war".

    There wasnt enough meaning to dialogue choices. In Bioware's other games (Dragon Age and Mass Effect), your choices often have some sort of impact. Bioware should have designed it so your choices in missions would actually have some significant impact down the road. You know, if I randomly murder a high ranking noble on Alderaan, or slaughter a squad of police officers on a neutral planet, I should be surprised by assassins at some point or have to deal with some sort of judicial fallout. Something should happen to make us actually invested and interested in the world rather than just choosing dialogue options to get light or dark side points and maximize our active companion's affection gains.

     

    That said, I don't think the game is totally awful, but it could be a lot better.

  • UronksurUronksur Redmond, WAPosts: 311Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lugors


    The game had great graphics with poor art design.

    Oh, and the above as well. The graphics are reasonably good, but the art and layout is pretty mediocre at best. I don't think the stylized art style was a good choice. 

  • Amphib_IanAmphib_Ian cayce, SCPosts: 170Member
    Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
    It wasn't SWG.

    This ^^^

    But also, I am greatful that I got the game for cheap when I traded in some other games at the time, then just waited without installing for the game to go, inevitably, free to play. At which time I will play this very well funded single player game till I hit cap or whatever and then, probably, never touch it again. I still have the reciept, it cost me $21.82 which I think is very fair for a single player star wars game. And maybe, just maybe, some of the bugs and crap will be cleared up so it is a smooth experience.

    GOD I miss the old pre-CU swg days...

    image

  • UronksurUronksur Redmond, WAPosts: 311Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Also keep in mind..

         In SWTOR you have a Smuggler that doesn't smuggle... You have a Bounty Hunter that doesn't hunt..  And the game is riddled with illogical and contradition..... Prime Example:  Who has played the Sith Inq?  I have and at the end of your storyline we are suppose to be on the dark council.. RIGHT?   But soon as you leave that cut scene after beating the big guy.. You are right back to being a PEON doing dailies....... Really?  Dark council does dailies? This just shows to me how 1/2 assed things were done..

    Because losing access to game content like dailies after completing the class storyline would be absurd and everyone would hate it and complain about it nonstop? If you don't want to do dailies as a Darth, then don't. I imagine that there will be class content added on eventually in expansions or something like that. I mean, I'd hate to think that the devs are so stupid as to not keep developing story content.

  • Amphib_IanAmphib_Ian cayce, SCPosts: 170Member
    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Also keep in mind..

         In SWTOR you have a Smuggler that doesn't smuggle... You have a Bounty Hunter that doesn't hunt..  And the game is riddled with illogical and contradition..... Prime Example:  Who has played the Sith Inq?  I have and at the end of your storyline we are suppose to be on the dark council.. RIGHT?   But soon as you leave that cut scene after beating the big guy.. You are right back to being a PEON doing dailies....... Really?  Dark council does dailies? This just shows to me how 1/2 assed things were done..

    That was something else I heard: imbalanced pvp. I recall seeing a video of a bounty hunter just shooting some missle thing and owning everyone's face, and heard testimony from a pal that sith lightning was way superior to the jedi equivalent of throwing a rock or some such. Any truth to these claims?

    image

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member

    I chose other because IMO it was slow content updates that hurt SWTOR the most. Rift is perfect example that content is the king and people can look past the old and tried WOW clone model as long as company supports their game with a heart.

    So not it wasn't linear gameplay, end game raiding or similarities to WOW that caused such a steep decline in population.

  • UronksurUronksur Redmond, WAPosts: 311Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Amphib_Ian
    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Also keep in mind..

         In SWTOR you have a Smuggler that doesn't smuggle... You have a Bounty Hunter that doesn't hunt..  And the game is riddled with illogical and contradition..... Prime Example:  Who has played the Sith Inq?  I have and at the end of your storyline we are suppose to be on the dark council.. RIGHT?   But soon as you leave that cut scene after beating the big guy.. You are right back to being a PEON doing dailies....... Really?  Dark council does dailies? This just shows to me how 1/2 assed things were done..

    That was something else I heard: imbalanced pvp. I recall seeing a video of a bounty hunter just shooting some missle thing and owning everyone's face, and heard testimony from a pal that sith lightning was way superior to the jedi equivalent of throwing a rock or some such. Any truth to these claims?

    Asides from appearances, probably not... As I recall, each class is basically just a carbon copy of it's opposite in the other faction. I would bet the numbers for Sith Lightning and Jedi Telekinesis are exactly the same and scale in total lockstep. 

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    Did anyone mention EA?

     

    You know, the game flopped because it was an EA game masquerading as a BioWare game?

     

    You tend to expect certain quality from EA.

     

    --EA bought Origin Systems, Inc, and the franchise suffered (Richard Garriott did do UO before he left).  Ultima 9 wasn't so lucky.

    --EA bought Mythic and drags the franchise through the mud (Warhammer).

    --EA buys BioWare in 2007..

    You can see the outcome.

     

    EA and MMORPGS's.  A candle in the wind ...

     

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

Sign In or Register to comment.