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Any more sand in the sandbox?

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Comments

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Anthara

    When you guys mature a bit more, you will know that when you are discussing about something if it is, or its not... probably it isn't.

     

    Thanks Yoda

    Stopped they must be...

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Crafting has been made more sandboxy. There's a few systems like mercenary contract and an alternate leveling system (more things are done to level your character than craft and hit mobs). other than that, we don't know if they added more sand. We just know that they didn't change cities or houses much. These things have to remain static to avoid being abused, cut back on server load, etc. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Crafting has been made more sandboxy. There's a few systems like mercenary contract and an alternate leveling system (more things are done to level your character than craft and hit mobs). other than that, we don't know if they added more sand. We just know that they didn't change cities or houses much. These things have to remain static to avoid being abused, cut back on server load, etc. 

     

    Mercenaries have been in game since launch. Its nothing new, it was player driven before without any in game supporting tools. What they did in DF:UW is they added now some tool for this.

    There isn't a single feature that could be called sandboxy, is entirely new  that has been added and wasn't before  from the info we now yet.  

    What we know for sure is that they did remove sandbox with some changes. 100% safe zones are now in which dont let you any freedom, limbo system and global AH can be added to those sandbox destroying changes.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    I'd say swtor floped because it was bascally a exact carbon copy of world of warcraft just set in the starwars universe. That and the devs never delivered really anything they promised.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Crafting has been made more sandboxy. There's a few systems like mercenary contract and an alternate leveling system (more things are done to level your character than craft and hit mobs). other than that, we don't know if they added more sand. We just know that they didn't change cities or houses much. These things have to remain static to avoid being abused, cut back on server load, etc. 

     

    Mercenaries have been in game since launch. Its nothing new, it was player driven before without any in game supporting tools. What they did in DF:UW is they added now some tool for this.

    There isn't a single feature that could be called sandboxy, is entirely new  that has been added and wasn't before  from the info we now yet.  

    What we know for sure is that they did remove sandbox with some changes. 100% safe zones are now in which dont let you any freedom, limbo system and global AH can be added to those sandbox destroying changes.

     

    Link on global auction houses? Last thing I read was that you had to be in the area to buy the item and it could be delivered to you, but its risky and expensive. The 100% safe zone thing was a necessary evil. Too many people will griefed out of the game the first few weeks of both NA and EU launch. I'm hoping they allow unlimited war decs now though. 

    Limbo isn't really anti-sandbox IMO. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • Crunchy222Crunchy222 new york, ILPosts: 386Member

    No sand will be added.

     

    They are basically taking 1.0 and putting the focus on more arena style roaming pvp encounters.  They are adjusting progression based on feedback from all the macroers so no more grind, easy progression.  Yeah craftings going to work differently though.

    Im expecting, for the most part, 1.0 with shiney lighting, a better but buggy UI and GUI, and wow style "look im at endgame after a month of casual play" progression.  All the same major glaring problems will exist...mainly a FPS slapped into what could be an epic sandbox..

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Crafting has been made more sandboxy. There's a few systems like mercenary contract and an alternate leveling system (more things are done to level your character than craft and hit mobs). other than that, we don't know if they added more sand. We just know that they didn't change cities or houses much. These things have to remain static to avoid being abused, cut back on server load, etc. 

     

    Mercenaries have been in game since launch. Its nothing new, it was player driven before without any in game supporting tools. What they did in DF:UW is they added now some tool for this.

    There isn't a single feature that could be called sandboxy, is entirely new  that has been added and wasn't before  from the info we now yet.  

    What we know for sure is that they did remove sandbox with some changes. 100% safe zones are now in which dont let you any freedom, limbo system and global AH can be added to those sandbox destroying changes.

     

    Link on global auction houses? Last thing I read was that you had to be in the area to buy the item and it could be delivered to you, but its risky and expensive. The 100% safe zone thing was a necessary evil. Too many people will griefed out of the game the first few weeks of both NA and EU launch. I'm hoping they allow unlimited war decs now though. 

    Limbo isn't really anti-sandbox IMO. 

     

    a) You can bring up the trade window on any place of the world.  Smart people will do this in the 100% safe area.

    b) you have the choice that every item will be delivered to your location. Smart people will do this for every valuable item.

    You see global and 100% safe, a global AH.

    The point isn't btw if its needed or not , the point in discussion is if it is sandbox. Global info on markets is not sandbox, staying safe in 100% safe area checking all areas in game  isn't sandbox and having the option that everything is delivered to you isn't also very sandboxy.

    Same goes for the 100% safe areas, the point isn't if they are necessary or not but if they are a sandbox solution. Would have been not sandboxy to have a working alignement system and offer blue players incentives to police the newbie cities ? For example offer players a carreer  at NPC cities  up to become a major ?  that sounds more like sandbox to me..

    Limbo isn't anti-sandbox ? So putting away any need for organization and preparatiion and letting any army fight everywhere in the world without risk is samething you call a well implemented sandbox idea ?   

     

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
    Originally posted by xpiher Originally posted by DarthRaiden Originally posted by xpiher Crafting has been made more sandboxy. There's a few systems like mercenary contract and an alternate leveling system (more things are done to level your character than craft and hit mobs). other than that, we don't know if they added more sand. We just know that they didn't change cities or houses much. These things have to remain static to avoid being abused, cut back on server load, etc. 
      Mercenaries have been in game since launch. Its nothing new, it was player driven before without any in game supporting tools. What they did in DF:UW is they added now some tool for this. There isn't a single feature that could be called sandboxy, is entirely new  that has been added and wasn't before  from the info we now yet.   What we know for sure is that they did remove sandbox with some changes. 100% safe zones are now in which dont let you any freedom, limbo system and global AH can be added to those sandbox destroying changes.
      Link on global auction houses? Last thing I read was that you had to be in the area to buy the item and it could be delivered to you, but its risky and expensive. The 100% safe zone thing was a necessary evil. Too many people will griefed out of the game the first few weeks of both NA and EU launch. I'm hoping they allow unlimited war decs now though.  Limbo isn't really anti-sandbox IMO. 
     

    a) You can bring up the trade window on any place of the world.  Smart people will do this in the 100% safe area.

    b) you have the choice that every item will be delivered to your location. Smart people will do this for every valuable item.

    You see global and 100% safe, a global AH.

    The point isn't btw if its needed or not , the point in discussion is if it is sandbox. Global info on markets is not sandbox, staying safe in 100% safe area checking all areas in game  isn't sandbox and having the option that everything is delivered to you isn't also very sandboxy.

    Same goes for the 100% safe areas, the point isn't if they are necessary or not but if they are a sandbox solution. Would have been not sandboxy to have a working alignement system and offer blue players incentives to police the newbie cities ? For example offer players a carreer  at NPC cities  up to become a major ?  that sounds more like sandbox to me..

    Limbo isn't anti-sandbox ? So putting away any need for organization and preparatiion and letting any army fight everywhere in the world without risk is samething you call a well implemented sandbox idea ?   

     




    Sandbox and safety have nothing to do with each other. You can have a 100% safe from PvP sandbox MMORPG. Looking at it from a different point of view, adding full loot PvP to WoW wouldn't make it a sandbox. Taking full loot PvP away from a sandbox game wouldn't make that game a theme park.

    However, stuff like this does have everything to do with attracting more players to your game, and keeping more existing players playing.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


     



    Sandbox and safety have nothing to do with each other. You can have a 100% safe from PvP sandbox MMORPG. Looking at it from a different point of view, adding full loot PvP to WoW wouldn't make it a sandbox. Taking full loot PvP away from a sandbox game wouldn't make that game a theme park.

    However, stuff like this does have everything to do with attracting more players to your game, and keeping more existing players playing.

     

     

    Sandbox and safety have to do with each other if players are allowed and become incentives and have the freedom and the option for it,  so safety can becomes part of gameplay.

    Instead of letting static programm code decide which is safe and which is not , you can implement smart gameplay mechanics so it can work that players guard a area. Its not impossible. I even post example of mechanics that are sandbox . What DF:UW implmentes is a lazy shortcut because the devs lacks vision and talent to create sandbox games.

     

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

     
    Sandbox and safety have nothing to do with each other. You can have a 100% safe from PvP sandbox MMORPG. Looking at it from a different point of view, adding full loot PvP to WoW wouldn't make it a sandbox. Taking full loot PvP away from a sandbox game wouldn't make that game a theme park. However, stuff like this does have everything to do with attracting more players to your game, and keeping more existing players playing.  
     

    Sandbox and safety have to do with each other if players are allowed and become incentives and have the freedom and the option for it,  so safety can becomes part of gameplay.

    Instead of letting static programm code decide which is safe and which is not , you can implement smart gameplay mechanics so it can work that players guard a area. Its not impossible. I even post example of mechanics that are sandbox . What DF:UW implmentes is a lazy shortcut because the devs lacks vision and talent to create sandbox games.

     



    I think being able to build security is a good idea. It's better than there just being "safe" areas in a game. I think both types of safety can coexist in the same game, so long as they each serve a different purpose. Some things just work better in safe, server cities. Trade and commerce are high on the list here. A safe place to trade is good, so long as it's balanced with a "cost". You have to travel to the city and you have to take the risk of moving your goods around in unsafe areas. That kind of thing.

    I think your expectations of what players will do is a little too high though. The worst players are going to drive away far more new players than the best players are going to bring in. That banding together against all odds sound good on paper, and looks good in movies, but in practice, it doesn't usually work. Your "Goon Squad" will crush your "Plucky Newbies" almost every time. Oh sure, occasionally you'll get a group that comes together and things work out just right, but mostly they just get crushed and the members scatter to join more powerful, existing guilds.

    ** edit **
    Sandbox seems to be a lot more in the details than the overview. "Danger" and "PvP" by themselves aren't sandbox things. It's how you implement them that makes the difference. I don't think I'm disagreeing with you here, but I wanted to clarify what I was saying.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

     
    Sandbox and safety have nothing to do with each other. You can have a 100% safe from PvP sandbox MMORPG. Looking at it from a different point of view, adding full loot PvP to WoW wouldn't make it a sandbox. Taking full loot PvP away from a sandbox game wouldn't make that game a theme park. However, stuff like this does have everything to do with attracting more players to your game, and keeping more existing players playing.  
     

     

    Sandbox and safety have to do with each other if players are allowed and become incentives and have the freedom and the option for it,  so safety can becomes part of gameplay.

    Instead of letting static programm code decide which is safe and which is not , you can implement smart gameplay mechanics so it can work that players guard a area. Its not impossible. I even post example of mechanics that are sandbox . What DF:UW implmentes is a lazy shortcut because the devs lacks vision and talent to create sandbox games.

     



    I think being able to build security is a good idea. It's better than there just being "safe" areas in a game. I think both types of safety can coexist in the same game, so long as they each serve a different purpose. Some things just work better in safe, server cities. Trade and commerce are high on the list here. A safe place to trade is good, so long as it's balanced with a "cost". You have to travel to the city and you have to take the risk of moving your goods around in unsafe areas. That kind of thing.

    I think your expectations of what players will do is a little too high though. The worst players are going to drive away far more new players than the best players are going to bring in. That banding together against all odds sound good on paper, and looks good in movies, but in practice, it doesn't usually work. Your "Goon Squad" will crush your "Plucky Newbies" almost every time. Oh sure, occasionally you'll get a group that comes together and things work out just right, but mostly they just get crushed and the members scatter to join more powerful, existing guilds.

    ** edit **
    Sandbox seems to be a lot more in the details than the overview. "Danger" and "PvP" by themselves aren't sandbox things. It's how you implement them that makes the difference. I don't think I'm disagreeing with you here, but I wanted to clarify what I was saying.

     

    I can agree with this. Seems i read to much into your first sentence (as in sandbox and safety are absolutely unrelated). Unfortunately you might be also right about the avarage players who simply "won't play like designed". I know a real big-time solution is very difficult.

    Probably i am just disappointed that AV seems don't even try anymore and taking rough shortcuts...

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

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