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Main reason why SWTOR flopped?

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  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 8,063Member
    Originally posted by Scummyman
    Originally posted by warbot7777
    I felt like the game was TOO big. So many places you rarely encountered anyone. While it was nice to explore, I was bored quickly. It felt too much like WoW with too much questing and grinding. If the game was truly story driven, it wouldn't have me collecting shit all the time. 

    Hahahaha, too big my arse, are you having a larf. It was so linear you couldn't explore anyway.

    I find that comment also very odd. Too big? SWTOR was if anything too small, as you say.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon
    Linear world and load screens will do it everytime.
  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    There were too many things to choose just one.  Overall, the combination of those things caused me to burn out quickly and lose my will to log in.

     

    I can't help but think that if SWTOR had been more like SWG (pre-NGE) and less like WoW it would have been more successful. Still....I enjoyed the game for the brief time I played it and don't regret buying it.  Live and learn, I say. :)

       You are one of many people who say this, but the fact is that SWG was a failure so Sony instituted changes which kept the game afloat for awhile but was still a failure

    Except, SWG didn't fail.  SWG had more success than SWTOR has had.

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  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by Obraik
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    There were too many things to choose just one.  Overall, the combination of those things caused me to burn out quickly and lose my will to log in.

     

    I can't help but think that if SWTOR had been more like SWG (pre-NGE) and less like WoW it would have been more successful. Still....I enjoyed the game for the brief time I played it and don't regret buying it.  Live and learn, I say. :)

       You are one of many people who say this, but the fact is that SWG was a failure so Sony instituted changes which kept the game afloat for awhile but was still a failure

    Except, SWG didn't fail.  SWG had more success than SWTOR has had.

     That's going to be an awful pill for some folks to swallow. I hope you brought your flame proof undies man. If not buy some from the shop so bioware gets a dime from the coming fun.

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon

    They bet the farm on a totally story-focused MMORPG.. but the story wasn't very good, nor very well presented.

    What was left was an average 2005 release that arrived six years too late.

  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Obraik
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    There were too many things to choose just one.  Overall, the combination of those things caused me to burn out quickly and lose my will to log in.

     

    I can't help but think that if SWTOR had been more like SWG (pre-NGE) and less like WoW it would have been more successful. Still....I enjoyed the game for the brief time I played it and don't regret buying it.  Live and learn, I say. :)

       You are one of many people who say this, but the fact is that SWG was a failure so Sony instituted changes which kept the game afloat for awhile but was still a failure

    Except, SWG didn't fail.  SWG had more success than SWTOR has had.

     That's going to be an awful pill for some folks to swallow. I hope you brought your flame proof undies man. If not buy some from the shop so bioware gets a dime from the coming fun.

    Oh, I'm well used to that lol.

    But it's true.  SWG never had to do massive server consolidation in its early days and until WoW came along it was one of the most profitable MMO's and made back its development costs fairly quickly.  It wasn't until WoW came along that LucasArts became greedy and the revamps to add WoW-like features to the game happened.

    Why do I blame LucasArts and not SOE for those revamps?  Because of SWTOR.  SWTOR is everything they wanted to turn SWG into with the CU and then the NGE.  They never understood why the Star Wars IP couldn't have massive sub numbers like WoW and their solution was to copy.  It didn't work with the CU and the NGE and even with a clean slate, it's not working with TOR either.

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  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 8,063Member
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Obraik
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    There were too many things to choose just one.  Overall, the combination of those things caused me to burn out quickly and lose my will to log in.

     

    I can't help but think that if SWTOR had been more like SWG (pre-NGE) and less like WoW it would have been more successful. Still....I enjoyed the game for the brief time I played it and don't regret buying it.  Live and learn, I say. :)

       You are one of many people who say this, but the fact is that SWG was a failure so Sony instituted changes which kept the game afloat for awhile but was still a failure

    Except, SWG didn't fail.  SWG had more success than SWTOR has had.

     That's going to be an awful pill for some folks to swallow. I hope you brought your flame proof undies man. If not buy some from the shop so bioware gets a dime from the coming fun.

    No, I absolutely agree with Obraik!

    There is more to fail and succeed that numbers. How much money went into SWTOR vs SWG, for instance. And artisitically, as a whole game, while both games are/were flawed, SWG was LEAGUES ahead of SWTOR.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • SuiMeSuiMe GeelongPosts: 16Member
    Originally posted by erictlewis
    I choose other, as all the above I had issues with.  It juust is not one of them but all of them.

       This, and where were all the epic battles, not just small skirmishes.

    ________________________
    It's a game, ffs.

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    It´s heartbreaking because so many people including me wanted this game to be good.

     

    In fact it gets kicked out of the water by literally every 2010+  MMO.

     

    -Technically

    -Graphically

    -Immersion

    -World Size

    even Storytelling and Cutscene Direction is boring and uninspired, tons of dialogue, badly directed cutscenes which mainly consists of two or three people talking in a room.

    Sidequests: Desperate Soldier asks you to do his job and kill X of Y.

    I wish SOE could have done SWG 2 instead and hired two or three writers to add a decent SW story, plus monthly story additions like a TV series, like TSW does with the monthly issues.

    There is no way that SOE could have wasted the IP like BW did.

    :(

     

     

     

     

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  • HefaistosHefaistos BucharestPosts: 186Member

    1 word. Ilum. PvP xp trade festival ruined pvp > then pvpers left the game. 

     

    Nobody will return to play the game anymore for pvp. PvE yes, maybe its huge. Not pvp. 

  • ClawzonClawzon PitePosts: 192Member
    Thanks for answers so far. I admit I should have
    included an "all the above" option for sure;)
    Besides that, from reading this thread I think;
    "No global chat" could have been an option aswell.
    "Not attractive to female gamers" since Star Wars
    is more attractive to males... hmm, maybe! Perhaps
    classic fantasy alá WoW for ex. is more for everyone!? Don't know.


    Good, interesting and classic comments from posters;
     
    itgrowls - a cut scene for everything (no i do not want to listen to your life story to kill ten womprats)


    ste - Single Player Game with MMO badge.

    Crazy_Stick - The main reason SWTOR flopped is because... it sucks. *Shrug*


    MMOExposed - It failed because you had Developers without the understanding, that Single Player RPGs arent the same design concept of MMO-RPGs.


    :)

  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Leland, NCPosts: 3,275Member
    All of those are reasons for its failure.
  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    There were too many things to choose just one.  Overall, the combination of those things caused me to burn out quickly and lose my will to log in.

     

    I can't help but think that if SWTOR had been more like SWG (pre-NGE) and less like WoW it would have been more successful. Still....I enjoyed the game for the brief time I played it and don't regret buying it.  Live and learn, I say. :)

       You are one of many people who say this, but the fact is that SWG was a failure so Sony instituted changes which kept the game afloat for awhile but was still a failure

    I guess this goes to show that 'Failure' is a relative term. 8 years of subscription; Fans who wish it was still running; Comes up anecdotally as a model when crafting, space combat, and many other systems are discussed.

    At this point I am disgusted by the comparison. The two games share the same IP but that is it. SWTOR isn't worthy to be mentioned in comparison to SWG.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • DraronDraron A town in, KYPosts: 993Member
    Originally posted by Obraik

    Except, SWG didn't fail.  SWG had more success than SWTOR has had.

    A little over a year or so after launch SWG had 250k subs after selling a million copies. And that was just after an expansion. So it's retention rate was ~25%, less than SWTOR nearly a year in. At worst neither would be more of a fail retention wise than the other.

    The biggest issue I have as a subscriber is the limited content - it all revolves around the space minigame or planet/class quests. I'd like a nice diversion.

  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Fresno, CAPosts: 615Member
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Obraik
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    Originally posted by just1opinion

     

    There were too many things to choose just one.  Overall, the combination of those things caused me to burn out quickly and lose my will to log in.

     

    I can't help but think that if SWTOR had been more like SWG (pre-NGE) and less like WoW it would have been more successful. Still....I enjoyed the game for the brief time I played it and don't regret buying it.  Live and learn, I say. :)

       You are one of many people who say this, but the fact is that SWG was a failure so Sony instituted changes which kept the game afloat for awhile but was still a failure

    Except, SWG didn't fail.  SWG had more success than SWTOR has had.

     That's going to be an awful pill for some folks to swallow. I hope you brought your flame proof undies man. If not buy some from the shop so bioware gets a dime from the coming fun.

    No, I absolutely agree with Obraik!

    There is more to fail and succeed that numbers. How much money went into SWTOR vs SWG, for instance. And artisitically, as a whole game, while both games are/were flawed, SWG was LEAGUES ahead of SWTOR.

    I doubt SWToR will make another 3 years, much less another 7 to match SWG, that's for sure.

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  • defector1968defector1968 Nar ShaddaaPosts: 393Member Common
    Originally posted by Draron
    Originally posted by Obraik

    Except, SWG didn't fail.  SWG had more success than SWTOR has had.

    A little over a year or so after launch SWG had 250k subs after selling a million copies. And that was just after an expansion. So it's retention rate was ~25%, less than SWTOR nearly a year in. At worst neither would be more of a fail retention wise than the other.

    The biggest issue I have as a subscriber is the limited content - it all revolves around the space minigame or planet/class quests. I'd like a nice diversion.

    it stayed for 6 years with NGE with 300k-400k, it wasnt a huge success, but not a big failure either

    time will tell if swtor is big or a normal failure, the game isnt  a year old.

  • DraronDraron A town in, KYPosts: 993Member
    Originally posted by defector1968
    Originally posted by Draron
    Originally posted by Obraik

    Except, SWG didn't fail.  SWG had more success than SWTOR has had.

    A little over a year or so after launch SWG had 250k subs after selling a million copies. And that was just after an expansion. So it's retention rate was ~25%, less than SWTOR nearly a year in. At worst neither would be more of a fail retention wise than the other.

    The biggest issue I have as a subscriber is the limited content - it all revolves around the space minigame or planet/class quests. I'd like a nice diversion.

    it stayed for 6 years with NGE with 300k-400k, it wasnt a huge success, but not a big failure either

    time will tell if swtor is big or a normal failure, the game isnt  a year old.

    Everything I found showed the NGE lost subs. Source?

    Edit: I'm finding mixed sources on whether the CU drew in or exhaulted players. Not sure which to go by as the only official numbers released was the 250k. it's clear the NGE drove them away, though.

  • AstropuyoAstropuyo Stock, CAPosts: 1,797Member
    Originally posted by Latronus

    It failed because too many people wanted it to be something it was never going to be. 

    SWG fans wanted SWG2

    KOTOR fans wanted KOTOR3

    Eve/X-Wing fans wanted free roam space

    RPers wanted, well they wanted to sit down in a chair, to swim, day/night cycles, houses, etc etc etc

    A very vocal minority wanted SGRAs

    Raiders wanted well, they wanted end game

    PvPers wanted, well does it really matter because are they ever truly happy? 

    WoW players wanted group finder/macros/add-ons/8 years of content at release 

    The list goes on and on.  The game was doomed before it ever launched because no matter what EA/Bioware did or did not do, there was no way to satisfy a majority of the players with the direction they finally took the game...

     

     

    ^-- This is exactly on the mark.

     

    Meanwhile I cannot allow someone to say something failed that is still open, if people thought any sort of rough spot was failure in the real world you'd all be aborted. (Me as well) and really whom are we to say what is fail? Last time I checked the majority of this community is either..

     

    A).Unemployed

    or

    B)Really really obsessed with bashing the big rocks into smaller more sharper barbs.

     

    Or

    C). Every mmo player is now an entitled ass not fit to game with as they flee anything for anything new.

  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member
    Originally posted by Draron
    Originally posted by Obraik

    Except, SWG didn't fail.  SWG had more success than SWTOR has had.

    A little over a year or so after launch SWG had 250k subs after selling a million copies. And that was just after an expansion. So it's retention rate was ~25%, less than SWTOR nearly a year in. At worst neither would be more of a fail retention wise than the other.

    The biggest issue I have as a subscriber is the limited content - it all revolves around the space minigame or planet/class quests. I'd like a nice diversion.

    No, SWG's subs topped out at around the 300-400k mark.  In pre-WoW time, this was very successful for an MMO - Everquest was really the only other Western MMO to have hit higher.  They hit 1 million boxes sold in August 2005

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/star-wars-galaxies-sales-top-a-million-units

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  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    Originally posted by Astropuyo
    Originally posted by Latronus

    It failed because too many people wanted it to be something it was never going to be. 

    SWG fans wanted SWG2

    KOTOR fans wanted KOTOR3

    Eve/X-Wing fans wanted free roam space

    RPers wanted, well they wanted to sit down in a chair, to swim, day/night cycles, houses, etc etc etc

    A very vocal minority wanted SGRAs

    Raiders wanted well, they wanted end game

    PvPers wanted, well does it really matter because are they ever truly happy? 

    WoW players wanted group finder/macros/add-ons/8 years of content at release 

    The list goes on and on.  The game was doomed before it ever launched because no matter what EA/Bioware did or did not do, there was no way to satisfy a majority of the players with the direction they finally took the game...

     

     

    ^-- This is exactly on the mark.

     

    Meanwhile I cannot allow someone to say something failed that is still open, if people thought any sort of rough spot was failure in the real world you'd all be aborted. (Me as well) and really whom are we to say what is fail? Last time I checked the majority of this community is either..

     

    A).Unemployed

    or

    B)Really really obsessed with bashing the big rocks into smaller more sharper barbs.

     

    Or

    C). Every mmo player is now an entitled ass not fit to game with as they flee anything for anything new.

    Why just blame the customer base when you can insult them as well?

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Draron
    Originally posted by defector1968
    Originally posted by Draron
    Originally posted by Obraik

    Except, SWG didn't fail.  SWG had more success than SWTOR has had.

    A little over a year or so after launch SWG had 250k subs after selling a million copies. And that was just after an expansion. So it's retention rate was ~25%, less than SWTOR nearly a year in. At worst neither would be more of a fail retention wise than the other.

    The biggest issue I have as a subscriber is the limited content - it all revolves around the space minigame or planet/class quests. I'd like a nice diversion.

    it stayed for 6 years with NGE with 300k-400k, it wasnt a huge success, but not a big failure either

    time will tell if swtor is big or a normal failure, the game isnt  a year old.

    Everything I found showed the NGE lost subs. Source?

    Edit: I'm finding mixed sources on whether the CU drew in or exhaulted players. Not sure which to go by as the only official numbers released was the 250k. it's clear the NGE drove them away, though.

    Even after the NGE, there were no server consolidations until 2009, which was over 3 years. SWTOR had server merges after about 6 months, and is now less than SWGs max. SWG may have been losing subs, but no where near as fast as SWTOR, otherwise SWTOR would have held off on "merges" too.

    That was one other problem with SWTOR I did not like was the way they handled the server consolidations. There were about 200 servers, and they only gave you the choice to move to 1, and did not allow paid transfers where you could choose to transfer to another server. I had characters on 2 different servers creating 2 different legacies on purpose. Then with the final forced move a few months ago, it put all characters on to the same server, and stuffed up what I was doing, and had to delete some characters because of it, and redo them on another server. Whether I redo them or not, I will have to see after F2P, but I am certainly not subbing/paying more money to do so.

  • majimaji ColognePosts: 1,993Member Uncommon

    To me, since I started reading about it, it looked always like a super generic theme park game with a star wars skin and nothing really new. *shrugs*

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • saurus123saurus123 nonePosts: 567Member Uncommon

    im playing mmos for few years now

     

    main reasons why swtor flopped for me is

     

    bad engine - when more players appear on the screen game is unplayable even on nasa pcs ( means pvp is just terrible exp)

    lack of living world - monsters just staying on same spot in pack of 3 waiting for someone to kill them

    quest and combat system i saw that before ( WoW clone with lightsabers)

     

     

    cutscences and voice acting is fun for first few hours then i just skipped it becouse it was soo boring

  • ExcessionExcession NottinghamPosts: 367Member Uncommon

    I chose Other.

    SW:ToR is more like good single player/ Co-Op RPG, and if you treat it as such, taking a character or two through the class storyline is fun, but as soon as you start looking for all the MMO related content, it is severely lacking.

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Astropuyo
    Originally posted by Latronus

    It failed because too many people wanted it to be something it was never going to be. 

    SWG fans wanted SWG2

    KOTOR fans wanted KOTOR3

    Eve/X-Wing fans wanted free roam space

    RPers wanted, well they wanted to sit down in a chair, to swim, day/night cycles, houses, etc etc etc

    A very vocal minority wanted SGRAs

    Raiders wanted well, they wanted end game

    PvPers wanted, well does it really matter because are they ever truly happy? 

    WoW players wanted group finder/macros/add-ons/8 years of content at release 

    The list goes on and on.  The game was doomed before it ever launched because no matter what EA/Bioware did or did not do, there was no way to satisfy a majority of the players with the direction they finally took the game...

     

     

    ^-- This is exactly on the mark.

     

    Meanwhile I cannot allow someone to say something failed that is still open, if people thought any sort of rough spot was failure in the real world you'd all be aborted. (Me as well) and really whom are we to say what is fail? Last time I checked the majority of this community is either..

     

    A).Unemployed

    or

    B)Really really obsessed with bashing the big rocks into smaller more sharper barbs.

     

    Or

    C). Every mmo player is now an entitled ass not fit to game with as they flee anything for anything new.

    It failed because it was not a MMO, and the game is pretty much the same as it was when it was released. All other MMOs epsecially the main AAA ones, have had plenty more content / updates / progression / social events added to them since their launches.

    Instead of them adding content, all EA/Bioware seem to do is come up with excuses why it is losing players so fast, laying off staff, and the main Bioware people leaving Bioware and even the gaming industry. Something no one would do if it was any kind of success.

    The fact the game is still open can still means it is a failure, because if they are under a contract then they can not shut it down,as may end up having to pay more money to do so, especially after paying A LOT of money to create the game and it is the reason it has gone to F2P, to get back the cost of creating the game, as the direction it was heading was into complete financial loss, and EA have seen that other game gone F2P has turned things around, and now making millions more profit than before. They may have intened it going F2P at some point, but no where this soon. I do not think the same success of converting to F2P will be the case with SWTOR, but the next few months will be interesting again. we will have to see. The amount of players playing after F2P can not be deemed as a success either as we will not know whether they are paying or not. million players playing and paying $0 is still $0

    What would have brought players back more so, and paying, would be more content / an expansion etc, expanding/enhancing the game, not F2P

    SWTOR at its core is a single player game with multiplayer functionality. You do not need to pay a monthly fee to play ME3, and that is why people do not want to pay a monthly fee for SWTOR.

    LOTRO is not like SWG, but I like LOTRO, it is my 2nd favourite MMO. I did not want a SWG, I wanted a decent MMO, and all other costly MMOs are better / more worth a monthly fee than SWTOR.

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