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Are we really falling for this again?!

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  • spankybusspankybus Orlando, FLPosts: 1,154Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jiveturkey12

    A new flashy trailer comes out and everyone is ready to give their bodies to Zenimax as tribute to their greatness (in Marketing!)

     

    Seriously, does anyone remember SWTOR still? I know weve tried to put the image in the back of our head and really repress all those terrible memories, but lets not forget ESO is still an MMO from a AAA company. The new trailer really does make the game look great, at least in the over-exagerated 500 person armies battling and the whole "Play how you want style", which is very well displayed in a video depicting every Elder Scrolls character ever donning the EXACT Helmet from skyrim in every scene. Seriously isnt this set BEFORE skyrim? Was the Dovakiin the first Hipster who brought that style back a few centuries later?

     

    Anyway let me just refresh your memory on how "Good" marketing can make even a crap-piece of a game look amazing. 

     

    Exhibit A

     

    Also am I the only one who finds it hypocritical that ESO fans like to say us Core Elder Scrolls fans are too dismissive of ESO, yet one video comes out showing the game systems in an over-edited and cinematic fashion (Obviously to increase hype) and everyone goes crazy apeshit over it???

    Assuming a game you haven't played is crap is every bit as stupid as assuming its awesome.

    Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
    www.spankybus.com
    -3d Artist & Compositor
    -Writer
    -Professional Amature

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member

     

    Dude, I admit it. I am afraid ...

  • derek39derek39 monett, MOPosts: 155Member Uncommon

    I think everyone will play it cautious. It is a sub MMO and no one wants to be burned by that. Personally I'll wait until one of my friends get it. Hopefully there's a buddy key.

    But I really like GW2. So I'll stick aroun on that for idk how long but I'm predicting a solid few years or more. Plus it's nice to afford an extra nice big case of beer every month if I wanna hahaha.

    The 9 minute trailer does make the game look good. But again when checking out mmo's I'm doing it right from now on.

    Monster Hunter Veteran since '04.
    Currently playing: MH4U, Bloodborne, FFXIV, and a bit of GW2 on the side.

  • jiveturkey12jiveturkey12 You havent heard of it, FLPosts: 1,262Member
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Yamota
    I think more and more people are starting to wise-up and become sceptics. I mean after WAR, AoC and SW:TOR how can people still believe in the WoW/ThemePark model? It worked for WoW and that's it, most other ThemeParks have been shortlived single player games.

    As much as some would hate to admit it, any company that wants to turn a profit will most likely steer toward themepark.  

    You mention games that supposedly failed, but you don't mention any sandbox games that have overwhelmingly succeeded either.  While we have these supposed failures that you mention all selling a Million boxes and still in operation but on the sandbox side we have ... Darkfall, which is so successful that every character is about to get wiped from existence and EVE which has a whopping 300k subs.  

    If you want to blast themeparks, do it because of limited freedom, on-rails progression - but the money argument won't win for sandboxes.  The success/fail ration steers heavily in themeparks favor.   

    Marketing Trends are ok to Follow if your a developer.

     

    Originally posted by spankybus

    Assuming a game you haven't played is crap is every bit as stupid as assuming its awesome.

    Not ok to follow as a consumer.

     

    So companies can base their entire development off statistics that accountants THEY hire tell them is correct. But I cant make the same assertions about the games quality because why? I dont have the foresight? I dont have the mathematical ability to determine the games failure based off the number of failed Themepark games that now sit on low sub numbers and even lower ratings on review sites? I cant make a judgement of the games success based off the information that has been given to us about the games core systems and their contradictory affiliation with a successful IP?

  • MMOwandererMMOwanderer LisbonPosts: 415Member

    I sure as hell ain't falling for it.

    The trailer is pure hype. They talk about how you can be a tank with a bow or a sneaky guy that heals. Well, did they talk about how they plan to make sure they're actually viabl in pve or pvp? Of course not, that would be bad PR. Best part is devs never talk about what mechanics they have to make sure the game as longevity beyond a coule of months.

    Dodgy answers to hard questions. As with very new mmorpg, i'll wait atleast a month before making any hard pressed decision. I am indeed interested in the potential RVR for endgame, aswell as crafting, but so far, a 1 minute zerg fight isn't enough for me.

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    I think more and more people are starting to wise-up and become sceptics. I mean after WAR, AoC and SW:TOR how can people still believe in the WoW/ThemePark model? It worked for WoW and that's it, most other ThemeParks have been shortlived single player games.

    year 2015 Blizzard gets Star Wars licence,Blizzard makes World of  Star Warscraft just reskinned WoW.

    Thrall = Darth Vader,TBC = Tatooine etc...

    It would be a huuuge huuge hit.

    They have their own concept which is like 10,000 minigames and many different things(not much RPG related things) but somewhat fun to play.

    if someone wants to beat that ,prepare to fall.

    World of Elder Scrollscraft,,hmmm,Proudmoore = Galbedir etc....not even Blizzard could make that a success,so ESO team please try to bring something new to the table,ES related.

    What im trying to say is that you dont have a chance even if you had WoW source code.

    Let's internet

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    I actually thought TOR was a lot of fun for the first 6-8 weeks, I couldn't have known how I would personally enjoy end-game and the higher levels etc.

    Sure, beta testers said this that and the other thing, but I try not to base my judgements on what other players say.

    I greatly enjoyed the game in beta, so I bought it.

    Same with GW2.

    I greatly enjoyed the game in beta, and really had no idea how I would personally enjoy end-game and the higher levels etc. until I was able to experience it on my own.

    Does this mean I have a lack of vision? A short attention span?

    I think I just ask and expect too much out of new games since I've been playing in this genre for so freak'n long.

    Even if TESO is another 1-2 month game, I'm sure it'll be worth the box price. I got a lot of enjoyment out of Skyrim.

    I'm not expecting to ever find the one true MMO holy grail that will keep me enthralled for years - not anymore.

    I've grown up, I've got less and less time to play, and I've got the money to game hop and enjoy multiple titles across multiple platforms and genres.

  • IfrianMMOIfrianMMO BarcelonaPosts: 212Member

    I am done getting excited over orchestrated trailers that mostly consist on chars running and doing pre-established stuff to make things look flashy.

    And i been dreaming of an online elder scrolls for ages.

    image
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lotaparty
    Originally posted by Karteli

    Who exactly do you mean by "you people?" :p

     

    After SWTOR and GW2 failed I am far less persuaded by anyone, even 1 person, saying this game is fun!, without me seeing it firsthand.

     

    SWTOR tought me never again to preorder games.

    GW2 tought me never to buy any game linked to a casual fanbase.

     

    Another I could never have forseen,

    WoW Cataclysm tought me never to buy Activision-Blizzard products.

     

    TESO tought me __________ . This blank reserved for the final relase :P. 

    i didnot bought gw2 and waited to see the end result and i am glad i didnot bought it . :PTESO and neverwinter i will pass  

    Where did you read GW2 failed, its a very succesfull game right now... It was just not for the hardcores, but still a casualls walhala.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,117Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by lotaparty
    Originally posted by Karteli

    Who exactly do you mean by "you people?" :p

     

    After SWTOR and GW2 failed I am far less persuaded by anyone, even 1 person, saying this game is fun!, without me seeing it firsthand.

     

    SWTOR tought me never again to preorder games.

    GW2 tought me never to buy any game linked to a casual fanbase.

     

    Another I could never have forseen,

    WoW Cataclysm tought me never to buy Activision-Blizzard products.

     

    TESO tought me __________ . This blank reserved for the final relase :P. 

    i didnot bought gw2 and waited to see the end result and i am glad i didnot bought it . :PTESO and neverwinter i will pass  

    Where did you read GW2 failed, its a very succesfull game right now... It was just not for the hardcores, but still a casualls walhala.

    I don't know about the casuals comment.  I'm casual and can't stand the game.  Maybe it's because I don't like arcade style games with twitchish combat where people die in a matter of seconds.  To me, GW2 feels more like a hardcore arcade game than a casual RPG.

    image
  • imaginaimagina AmpsinPosts: 104Member

    Funny thing is, Archage 2, or more precisely, Mortal online is much more close than what TESO "should" have been, TESO is just your typical boring themepark in the end it's clear as cristal when you have locked combat on ennemy, instanced dungeons and raids + zones that goes by ennemies with level range... It's so far from what Elder scrolls games are i don't understand why people are so eager to play it. (also, the half comic / realistic graphic style that does not fit the franchise either).

     

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Complain all you want OP, Im still gonna give it my $60.  Ive made that decision now, not even watching any of the vids.  No, wait, im sure ive seen a couple but irregardless..im playing this game..maybe for a week..maybe for 6 months.

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon

    Nop as far as I am concerned if the largest publisher in the world with a very healthy balance sheet and investment options can screw up the Star Wars IP.   Nothing is safe.

    I have a rough plan I will stick to:

    Play out my annual pass to wow, I kinda like mop sure haters gonna hate.

    Maybe dabble in planetside 2 if and only if they iron out the crippling frame rate bugs.

    Aim for Defiance so I can watch the shows on syfy.

    In between I am willing to try a trial of firefall and blade n soul.

    Apart from defiance I am never EVER willing to  make a blind purchase again. Early adopters are nothing more than beta testers, mass server stress testers and you have to compete for everything early on.  After a month or 3 of release you can play and walk into zones and enjoy the game with less bugs, less competition and more able to focus on enjoying yourself .

  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    I sure as hell ain't falling for it.

    The trailer is pure hype. They talk about how you can be a tank with a bow or a sneaky guy that heals. Well, did they talk about how they plan to make sure they're actually viabl in pve or pvp? Of course not, that would be bad PR. Best part is devs never talk about what mechanics they have to make sure the game as longevity beyond a coule of months.

    Dodgy answers to hard questions. As with very new mmorpg, i'll wait atleast a month before making any hard pressed decision. I am indeed interested in the potential RVR for endgame, aswell as crafting, but so far, a 1 minute zerg fight isn't enough for me.

    Of course its HYPE, do you want the first video they release to have them talking about how the game is crap and no one should buy it?

    image
  • GreenishBlueGreenishBlue Baltimore, MDPosts: 263Member
    beta test, have fun and move on

    image
  • DeniZgDeniZg ZagrebPosts: 669Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wicoa

    Early adopters are nothing more than beta testers, mass server stress testers and you have to compete for everything early on.

    True. But it does have a certain appeal to it, especially the competing part. And of course, the rush of playing brand new MMO with your fellow hyped up early adopters.

    Originally posted by Wicoa

     After a month or 3 of release you can play and walk into zones and enjoy the game with less bugs, less competition and more able to focus on enjoying yourself .

    And play MMORPG in empty starter zones? Not really cool if you like MMO in your RPG.

  • mhay71mhay71 Hanover, PAPosts: 26Member

    Best advice I ever received was to give a game at least 6 months if not 1 year before you buy. Gives the Devs plenty of time to work out most of the bugs and finish polishing the game.

     

    Problem is, I just can't wait that long. lol

    Ing the Conqueror

  • PyukPyuk Eugene, ORPosts: 690Member Uncommon

    Hype is a helluva drug...

    There's a reason church goers are referred to (and call themselves) a "flock." Fanbois clammering for the "next big thing" are the same way when it comes to the hype machine - it becomes a religion they must cling to and follow blindly. Humans are natural followers. Leaders and independant thinkers are the mutations.

    I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  • PyukPyuk Eugene, ORPosts: 690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SlickShoes
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    I sure as hell ain't falling for it.

    The trailer is pure hype. They talk about how you can be a tank with a bow or a sneaky guy that heals. Well, did they talk about how they plan to make sure they're actually viabl in pve or pvp? Of course not, that would be bad PR. Best part is devs never talk about what mechanics they have to make sure the game as longevity beyond a coule of months.

    Dodgy answers to hard questions. As with very new mmorpg, i'll wait atleast a month before making any hard pressed decision. I am indeed interested in the potential RVR for endgame, aswell as crafting, but so far, a 1 minute zerg fight isn't enough for me.

    Of course its HYPE, do you want the first video they release to have them talking about how the game is crap and no one should buy it?

    It'd be honest and a first in the MMORPG world.

    I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  • MMOwandererMMOwanderer LisbonPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by SlickShoes
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    I sure as hell ain't falling for it.

    The trailer is pure hype. They talk about how you can be a tank with a bow or a sneaky guy that heals. Well, did they talk about how they plan to make sure they're actually viabl in pve or pvp? Of course not, that would be bad PR. Best part is devs never talk about what mechanics they have to make sure the game as longevity beyond a coule of months.

    Dodgy answers to hard questions. As with very new mmorpg, i'll wait atleast a month before making any hard pressed decision. I am indeed interested in the potential RVR for endgame, aswell as crafting, but so far, a 1 minute zerg fight isn't enough for me.

    Of course its HYPE, do you want the first video they release to have them talking about how the game is crap and no one should buy it?

    Of course they shouldn't say the game's crap, and i never said it will be. But more honesty woud be nice from devs. See, i'm not asking them to say "Oh, and there'll be cookie cutter builds galore". However, if they can't back it up, don't say it. If being a tank bow or healer rogue isn't viable (and again, that's an IF), don't talk about it like it is, which that video clearly does. It's pointless BS hyping.

    It's one thing to explain in a factual way how your quest system works. It's another thing to say "the vilagers will remember you saving them and thank you", when that's probably either not going to happen or not in the way the video potrais it. Again, hyping.

    I'm not asking for devs to always be purely factual and "to the point" in their blogs, trailers, etc. Many trailers aren't about giving info, just showing some parts of it. Explaining features about your mmo with vague, sugarcoted words and phrases is another matter.

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    Of course they shouldn't say the game's crap, and i never said it will be. But more honesty woud be nice from devs. See, i'm not asking them to say "Oh, and there'll be cookie cutter builds galore". However, if they can't back it up, don't say it. If being a tank bow or healer rogue isn't viable (and again, that's an IF), don't talk about it like it is, which that video clearly does. It's pointless BS hyping.

    It's one thing to explain in a factual way how your quest system works. It's another thing to say "the vilagers will remember you saving them and thank you", when that's probably either not going to happen or not in the way the video potrais it. Again, hyping.

    I'm not asking for devs to always be purely factual and "to the point" in their blogs, trailers, etc. Many trailers aren't about giving info, just showing some parts of it. Explaining features about your mmo with vague, sugarcoted words and phrases is another matter.

    Your assuming they are lying tho, every class CAN stealth so being a stealth healer is easily done. Your weapon abilities are tied to your left mouse button (click for light hold for heavy) where as you spells will be class based, so aslong as tanking isnt too relient on the shield being equiped tanking with a bow should be easy too.

     

    You are also assuming the quests wont work like that, but we already know they will from the hands on, they are using phasing like wow, for instance some people on the hands on saved the village others the barracks and which ever one you chose to ignor will be wiped out and those you save will apear later in the game. Personally I'm on the fence when it comes to phasing but one thing it does allow is exactly what they showed for the after effects of the warewolf invasion

  • amadeuzamadeuz BangkokPosts: 73Member
    Originally posted by jiveturkey12

    Youve all missed the point completely. Yes I understand everything in the SWTOR trailer was in the game, and those all seem like amazing features right? 

     

    ESO's new trailer shows the same thing, a bunch of basic systems used for the game that seem appealing in the "Cinematic" context the video shows.

    But the fact that its a Linear Themepark game, with classes, and Trinity Style Combat have already doomed the game from the start. Themeparks arent selling, And ELder Scrolls Themeparks are DEFIENTLY not selling.

     

    They could have capitalized on the Elder Scrolls name, made a unique MMO experiance, and actually carved a niche market into something bigger and better. Instead they have to use crappy cinematic trailers that show minimal in game HUD (We saw what? A minimap?) and try and sell the idea of phasing by making a few NPC's in the town cheer for you.

     

    THIS IS AN MMO. Seriously when will developers and people start to understand that if your playing a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game, you need to accept the fact that people will be there, and your going to have to deal with them.

     

    Making the game singleplayer and solo-focused (Notice im not saying friendly here. That term needs to die, a slow painful firey death. Solo-Friendly is the exact bullshit you all have been spoon-feed by developers to make you feel good about your descision to not socialize in an online world.)

     

    Well guess what? Than you arent playing an MMO anymore, as soon as the singleplayer BECOMES the focus, then your playing a Co-operative Online RPG, Guild Wars 1 was the first  Mainsteam game to use this term (To my knowledge) and unfortunately the label needs to be put on alot of other MMO's because the meaning of the genre is lost under a heaping pile of bullshit known as "Marketing". 

     

    Zenimax feels as if they can make money simply by marketing the game as the mastepiece of mundane monotony it truely is. And guess what? Its working!! 

     

    Seriously if they can get all of you to defend a game theyve released one fluffed gameplay piece for, using a series which none of you care about because no one here wants to talk about the glaring Lore issues, rediculous Race/Faction limitations, and 3 faction pvp in an IP that doesnt dictate or even leave room to appropriate it, then job well done Zenimax! I appluad your effort at polishing that pile of crap your sitting on top of and still getting people to buy into it.

    So what's your expect on this game anyway, after reading your contexts it seems you expected ESO is the next big thing which will revolutionize the genre, but again as the devs mentioned before that they try to make the game to become the typical themepark MMO with Elder Scroll Lore and have the features that other games already made it but they will make it work in their own way with try to resemble with ES style. So at the begining til right now after watching the intro vid, still I haven't much hype to the ESO, but I will have to try the beta becase the gameplay seems interesting for me though.

    I am not so naive to believe there will have the MMO title that savior the genres and offer the whole new ideas and concept of the online game in the very near future (6-7 years maybe but definitely not very soon), because there is somewhat the limitations of connections tachnology or AI programming that can't handle the massive of people in the one area. I get over myself that MMOs these days are somewhat copy-paste features method to make the game. 

    However I do enjoy some recent MMOs even it is typical themepark style game or linear storyline and combat, cause for me not the enitre MMOs is full of craps, the genre still have some good ones that can satisfy me. And I look forward to play ESo beta with my low expectations and hope it can surprise on the final product.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pauly6478
    Too many players have been burnt by bad games.

    Too many players  raise their expectations to unrealistic proportions, don't try games before they buy them (or wait until a preview or reveiws from both players and critics)  when they probably suspect that they are the type to get angry over missed expectations. If one is a person who gets their panties in a bunch becuase a game didn't live up to the game in their mind then they might learn from that experience.

    I've never been burned by a game though I've tried/played many of these games because:

    I don't preorder unless I have it from personal experience that I'll get some value from the game or if I've just made up my mind that the preorder bonus is worth it and I then plan to stick around for a month.

    never inject my thoughts of a game with my own ideas of what the game will be like before I play it. This I learned a while back.

    listen/read carefully to what the developers say. If they say that the combat is going to be fabdynomastic then that tells me nothing. If they use adjetives to describe their game but give no examples then I'm told nothing. And therfore I have nothing to get me excited.

     

    This is not a call for low expectations. It's a call for realistic expectations. SWToR was very enjoyable becasue from what the developers said I inferred it was going to be a multiplayer bioware game. And that's what I got.

    A  long time ago I did get excited when they first announced Aion because I thought it was going to have a huge open world like Lineage 2.

    After trying the beta I then realized that I should never again assume. Has worked for me since.

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member
    Not touching it till atleast 4 months after release, unless they let me into the beta and prove their game will be good. it would be nice to get my Closed beta count to a even 20.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common
    Originally posted by jiveturkey12

    A new flashy trailer comes out and everyone is ready to give their bodies to Zenimax as tribute to their greatness (in Marketing!)

     

    Seriously, does anyone remember SWTOR still? I know weve tried to put the image in the back of our head and really repress all those terrible memories, but lets not forget ESO is still an MMO from a AAA company. The new trailer really does make the game look great, at least in the over-exagerated 500 person armies battling and the whole "Play how you want style", which is very well displayed in a video depicting every Elder Scrolls character ever donning the EXACT Helmet from skyrim in every scene. Seriously isnt this set BEFORE skyrim? Was the Dovakiin the first Hipster who brought that style back a few centuries later?

     

    Anyway let me just refresh your memory on how "Good" marketing can make even a crap-piece of a game look amazing. 

     

    Exhibit A

     

    Also am I the only one who finds it hypocritical that ESO fans like to say us Core Elder Scrolls fans are too dismissive of ESO, yet one video comes out showing the game systems in an over-edited and cinematic fashion (Obviously to increase hype) and everyone goes crazy apeshit over it???

     

    [mod edit - note that the title of this post has been edited slightly to be less inflammatory]

    I understand your point and I don't blame you at ALL for feeling this way.  However, friend, "we" fell for carbon copy classes, cultures with little to no existence and variation, and the same instanced boring BG stuff and forced pve questing as always.

     

    What we will fall for in ESO is a 3 realm mmorpg where pvp matters, your enemy is different than you (yes it's true)...and classes aren't just carbon copies of one another.

     

    For once, I am looking forward to falling for something that no developers have done since Dark Age of Camelot - immersive, 3 realm RvR - none of this green v red v blue team guildwar stuff where races kill their own with the same flavor of the month templates.

     

    Yes, I'm looking forward to being fooled into playing this title! SW:ToR sits next to Rift on my harddrive...a vacant, long forgotten folder.

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