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Originally posted by Zylaxx I was very vocally against TESO when it was announced. (look at my post history if you dont believe me) I am much more open to the games idea now based on the information that we know. (see my sig for info). Doesn't mean I cant be cautiously optimistic of the game though even if I have my doubts on this mega server technology, heavy use of phasing, over the shoulder 3rd person perspective and overall longevity. I will still follow it, to do so is leaving your self devoid of knowledgable information needed to make a "buy or pass" determination on release day.
This is exactly where I am at when it comes to TESO. The castle sieges is something I am very excited about, reminds me of L2, my fear is will they pull it off, or will this turn yet again into the same guild control system that there was in Warhammer Online and GW2 where holding stuff doesnt really matter.
Both SWTOR and GW2 entertained me for a good month and a half to 2 months, with over 300hrs played on both. I'd say that's money well spent.
So i wouldn't call them "fails", but if you think you're entitled to 1 year+ of content from the get-go for 50$, then you need to get your head checked.
Originally posted by jiveturkey12 A new flashy trailer comes out and everyone is ready to give their bodies to Zenimax as tribute to their greatness (in Marketing!) Seriously, does anyone remember SWTOR still? I know weve tried to put the image in the back of our head and really repress all those terrible memories, but lets not forget ESO is still an MMO from a AAA company. The new trailer really does make the game look great, at least in the over-exagerated 500 person armies battling and the whole "Play how you want style", which is very well displayed in a video depicting every Elder Scrolls character ever donning the EXACT Helmet from skyrim in every scene. Seriously isnt this set BEFORE skyrim? Was the Dovakiin the first Hipster who brought that style back a few centuries later? Anyway let me just refresh your memory on how "Good" marketing can make even a crap-piece of a game look amazing. Exhibit A Also am I the only one who finds it hypocritical that ESO fans like to say us Core Elder Scrolls fans are too dismissive of ESO, yet one video comes out showing the game systems in an over-edited and cinematic fashion (Obviously to increase hype) and everyone goes crazy apeshit over it???
I agree with you man. But I don't thing ppl will understand what you want to say, because they are just sheeps, baa, baa :)
Originally posted by bcbully Originally posted by Threatlevel0 It's important features. When I think MMO I think to myself, "Will NPC's really remember me? Will they care, for all that I'm doing for them?" I'm glad game developers are finally realizing that, at the core of MMO's, it's NPC's that really matter. No one wants to deal with other players, have to guild with them, or compete for resources with them, or even socialize with them. As long as NPC's cheer me on I'll be there!
lol /sarcasm? It's early, not done with my coffee yet. The exact same thing almost word for word was said in the GW2 manifesto.
So what have we learned from this? This means that there will an instanced story area that changes with your personal story..
lol yes, definately all sarcasm. If MMO's just want to focus on personal stories now I'll just keep playing non-MMO's where the combat, story, and practically everything is much better designed. And yet still be able to play Co-op usually.... I'd say I'll miss MMO PvP but then again, all that is anymore is Battlegrounds/Arena a.k.a lobby based anyways. And let's be honest, never even close to being balanced.
When they actually make even a fairly designed MMO with the driving inspiration being a fully fledged world without instanced lobbies and personal stories, but open world PvP, depth and even competition to crafting/gathering, and I don't know reasons to actually go to a Tavern besides a one time visit to get a "Point of Interest" or something....maybe I'll check out a MMO again.
*edit* Please don't mention EvE. I know it fits the bill, but I also don't like playing a spreadsheet. I still want an actual character, and if it was a spaceship MMO I was wanting to play I'd at least want it more similar to SWG's Jump to Lightspeed where I could walk around in it and have friends in my ship as well. Like that Chris Roberts ( I beleieve was his name?) new game, Freelancer or whatever...
Youve all missed the point completely. Yes I understand everything in the SWTOR trailer was in the game, and those all seem like amazing features right?
ESO's new trailer shows the same thing, a bunch of basic systems used for the game that seem appealing in the "Cinematic" context the video shows.
But the fact that its a Linear Themepark game, with classes, and Trinity Style Combat have already doomed the game from the start. Themeparks arent selling, And ELder Scrolls Themeparks are DEFIENTLY not selling.
They could have capitalized on the Elder Scrolls name, made a unique MMO experiance, and actually carved a niche market into something bigger and better. Instead they have to use crappy cinematic trailers that show minimal in game HUD (We saw what? A minimap?) and try and sell the idea of phasing by making a few NPC's in the town cheer for you.
THIS IS AN MMO. Seriously when will developers and people start to understand that if your playing a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game, you need to accept the fact that people will be there, and your going to have to deal with them.
Making the game singleplayer and solo-focused (Notice im not saying friendly here. That term needs to die, a slow painful firey death. Solo-Friendly is the exact bullshit you all have been spoon-feed by developers to make you feel good about your descision to not socialize in an online world.)
Well guess what? Than you arent playing an MMO anymore, as soon as the singleplayer BECOMES the focus, then your playing a Co-operative Online RPG, Guild Wars 1 was the first Mainsteam game to use this term (To my knowledge) and unfortunately the label needs to be put on alot of other MMO's because the meaning of the genre is lost under a heaping pile of bullshit known as "Marketing".
Zenimax feels as if they can make money simply by marketing the game as the mastepiece of mundane monotony it truely is. And guess what? Its working!!
Seriously if they can get all of you to defend a game theyve released one fluffed gameplay piece for, using a series which none of you care about because no one here wants to talk about the glaring Lore issues, rediculous Race/Faction limitations, and 3 faction pvp in an IP that doesnt dictate or even leave room to appropriate it, then job well done Zenimax! I appluad your effort at polishing that pile of crap your sitting on top of and still getting people to buy into it.
Let's just be honest....
...no MMO will ever be good enough for the forum contributers at MMORPG. Whether it's good/bad, themepark/sandbox, f2p/p2p/b2p, it's simply too cool and mainstream to hate on whatever comes out and then say that the genre should copy or go back to UO/DaoC/EVE/etc.
If you guys were given a box of legos, you'd complain that they don't have enough colors for you to have fun. We've become a community that simply can not even attempt to enjoy games before we bash them.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Originally posted by slicknslim88 Wow, we already got haters for this game just for trailers of the game. Nobody knows yet how this game will turn out, give it the benefit of the doubt and chill the fuck out.
I wouldn't say haters of the game, only haters of the same typical, generic genre. And given how all the latest games in this genre following said path have turned out....giving it the benefit of the doubt doesn't even seem justified.
People wont know a thing until we get to feel the combat. the ESO system has potential to be feel real organic.
Just don't go quoting the GW2 marketing team. It scares me.
So let me see if I understand you: A good marketing campaign means the game is bad?
You've already decided that you don't like ESO, so you're going to 'sound the alarm' for supposedly true Elder Scrolls fan every time someone actually says they are interested in the game?
What on earth does the SWTOR marketing have anything to do with TESO? Nothing, oh wait, it had ... marketing?
The OP, once again, is doing nothing but blasting the MMORPG and basically questioning the gullibility of anyone who may actually be interested in it.. This is nothing but flame bait - a haven for people that hate the game, and basically calling anyone who may disagree, fools.
Why create a discussion thread when there is no room for discussion on the matter?
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Originally posted by Vorch Let's just be honest.... ...no MMO will ever be good enough for the forum contributers at MMORPG. Whether it's good/bad, themepark/sandbox, f2p/p2p/b2p, it's simply too cool and mainstream to hate on whatever comes out and then say that the genre should copy or go back to UO/DaoC/EVE/etc. If you guys were given a box of legos, you'd complain that they don't have enough colors for you to have fun. We've become a community that simply can not even attempt to enjoy games before we bash them.
Let's just be realistic...
If you were given a box of legos as a grown adult...you'd complain rather than just have fun as well. Now when I go to Denny's they don't give me a coloring sheet and a few crayons to have fun with anymore. Why? Because I expect more and we all know it's just not fun to sit around playing with the same old legos.... Is it wrong to expect more?
Originally posted by Siveria 3) I'll be honest here most mmorpg players these days are morons who are bascally like cattle being lead to the slaughterhouse, they'll believe anything that is said about the game, and in general they are easly manipulated fools.
This is also true with anti-hype. Players bash a game so hard that other people begin to believe it's bad... like cattle to the slaughterhouse.
Let's be honest and realistic.
If they manage to pull off technically polished game which is rich in features (both PVE and PVP), they will have a hit on their hands. When saying hit, I mean MMO with staying power.
Oterwise, IP will warrant good box sales, people will stop playing in month or two and all of us will call it a failure then.
Originally posted by Threatlevel0 Originally posted by Vorch Let's just be honest.... ...no MMO will ever be good enough for the forum contributers at MMORPG. Whether it's good/bad, themepark/sandbox, f2p/p2p/b2p, it's simply too cool and mainstream to hate on whatever comes out and then say that the genre should copy or go back to UO/DaoC/EVE/etc. If you guys were given a box of legos, you'd complain that they don't have enough colors for you to have fun. We've become a community that simply can not even attempt to enjoy games before we bash them.
How dare you imply that playing with Legos as a grown up isn't fun??!?
Still plenty to be concerned about. We'll see though but I'm not banking on this being the next big thing. Prove me wrong and I'll be a happy Elder Scrolls player.
1. When I hear the name them park I cringe because we already have had a million and one failures of theme park mmos.
2. They want to cater to both types, mmo players and elder scrolls players. I think if you aren't catering to Elder Scrolls players first and foremost it is a mistake. The Elder Scrolls games have a huge following, we don't need the game dumbed down because the casual mmo player says it is too difficult.
I know that YOU know the point I was trying to make. Instead you focus on picking apart analogies. Also, mincraft is doing very well, no?
However, just incase you do not understand what I was trying to say:
No matter what tools, features, creativity, world, story, sandbox, or themepark comes out in MMO form, no concensus on mmorpg's forums will EVER be satisfied with ANY of it. EVER.
Originally posted by sapphen Originally posted by Siveria 3) I'll be honest here most mmorpg players these days are morons who are bascally like cattle being lead to the slaughterhouse, they'll believe anything that is said about the game, and in general they are easly manipulated fools.
I'm not sure it's that simple - sure there are plenty of people that ask both "So what am I supposed to like today?" and "What game am I supposed to hate on today?" I think many people genuinely want to find out the truth about a game. Threads like this muddy the waters. It's hard to have an intelligent discussion when the thread title questions the gullibility of anyone who may be interested in the game. The nature of discussions that take this direction only adds to the confusion, and clarifies nothing except the OP's need to rip on a large segment of the MMORPG fanbase and elevate himself as the harbinger of gaming truth.
Originally posted by MadDemon64 That pretty much sums it up. And seriously, why does everyone have to call a game a failure if they hate it? I do not like the Secret World. The combat system is too complicated for me, but it is still a great game; it's just that the game is not for me. SWTOR, GW2, etc. are NOT failures, and I doubt that ESO will be a failure either. That does not necessarily mean that it will be a good game, but we will have to wait to see how good it is. I hereby propose a change to how peopel talk on these forums. I propose a "banning" of the practice of calling an MMO a failure, and replace it with the practice of saying that an MMO is not for the person making the post. Seriously, "failure" when it comes to games is subjective and too polarizing a term; simply stating a game is not for the person who thinks the game is not for them is much simpler and will result in fewer arguments.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want people to stop calling games failures, then you have to stop calling them a success. You either like something or you don't, you can't say "I don't like it, but it's great", even if you like certain aspects a lot. You either enjoy a game enough to play it or you don't.
If any game can be called a failure, it's because it didn't live up to the promises made by its developers. That's why games like SWTOR and GW2 have really pissed people off and (from what I've seen) ESO is going to follow suit.
Could you please list all of these Sandbox games that are being released that im not complaining about?
Sorry but your lumping all MMO's into one camp, when they arent. We havent seen a AAA sandbox game on the market since SWG. And the only too mildly legitimate sandbox games were Darkfall and Mortal which are both focused on PVP and made by indie developers with limited cash and resouces.
So no, we arent complaining about every game and judging them too harshly before they come out. Were complaining about the fact that weve had 10 years with no sandbox games being made by the people in power who have seemingly inifinite amounts of money to make the same themepark style games with different IP's thrown on.
You know why no ones impressed with ESO? Because its only defining feature is Three-Faction PVP, which is just ANOTHER thempark element because its not even openworld, its again in instances and again has been down by other games like WAR and so forth.
We want something original and more complex.
Originally posted by Yamota I think more and more people are starting to wise-up and become sceptics. I mean after WAR, AoC, GW2 and SW:TOR how can people still believe in the WoW/ThemePark model? It worked for WoW and that's it, most other ThemeParks have been shortlived single player games.
I think the pull for this is the TES label, that alone makes people curious.
Originally posted by Yamota I think more and more people are starting to wise-up and become sceptics. I mean after WAR, AoC and SW:TOR how can people still believe in the WoW/ThemePark model? It worked for WoW and that's it, most other ThemeParks have been shortlived single player games.
As much as some would hate to admit it, any company that wants to turn a profit will most likely steer toward themepark.
You mention games that supposedly failed, but you don't mention any sandbox games that have overwhelmingly succeeded either. While we have these supposed failures that you mention all selling a Million boxes and still in operation but on the sandbox side we have ... Darkfall, which is so successful that every character is about to get wiped from existence and EVE which has a whopping 300k subs.
If you want to blast themeparks, do it because of limited freedom, on-rails progression - but the money argument won't win for sandboxes. The success/fail ration steers heavily in themeparks favor.
uh look. another hater post.
lets turn this around:
aren't you people sick of hating games you dont know?
thx for the discussion, i'll join it again once we are able to test the game ourselves.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"