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Originally posted by grimgryphon [mod edit]
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I'd rate GW2 higher than the OP in a few points, for an average score of 7.5 - 8. However, I genuinely believe he is right with the Community score. It's the worst Community I have ever witnessed, surpassing in a very short time that of WoW in every bad aspect. Nobody is capable of respecting each other's opinions and understanding that it's that, opinions, and people do not care if they are a minority or a majority as long as they can freely voice their opinion without being bashed mindlessly.
In fact, it is probably thanks to the awful community that the game is so relentlessly bashed by "haters". It's a bounce-back effect from the overhype and overfanboyism (please don't shoot me down for using those terms, I use them just so we're all in the same page about what we speak about).
The game itself is dissociating to the extreme, and even in dungeons you're encouraged to play self-serving builds with no teamplay involved (hey, you asked for no trinity, that's your reward).
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Yep... OP seems completely non-bias and 'neutral' on his observations.
Just curious, what was the last game you scored 3-6/10 in all categories?
Originally posted by adam_nox Update 2: There are a few things worth noting up here at the top. - People who claim bias based on post history have no arguments, that's why they make such claims. If I had much negative to say about GW2 prior to at least 20 days playing it (including headstart), it was about technical difficulties. Some fanboys take neutral observations as all out attacks on their precious, so I guess some posts are open to interpretation. If someone says 'based on your post history', then ignore their post, because they have nothing to say. - I'm not a WoW fan. I find the idea hilarious. I guess I'm a victim of MoP release date. I liked vanilla WoW. I'm not a fan of kungfu panda. Cataclysm's remake of the 1-60 was cool, but I don't play WoW, have vowed never to return to it, and have maybe racked up a whole 6 months subbed in it's 7+ year life. - Don't like eye-catching thread titles and want to reply only to that aspect? Ok, have fun with that. My advice is get over it. It doesn't say GW2 is a trainwreck. That's idiotic. It says it's a hype trainwreck, which it is. And the fault of that lies more with the people here (many probably replying in this topic) than it does with the folks at Anet. Maybe that's why people are so angry at this review. GW2 is at best mediocre, but was made out to be the second coming. - I doubt that my review is as baseless as the die-hards want to believe, it's clear I've touched a nerve and hit too close to home. I never expected much attention and thought it would just go unnoticed, I just wanted to post it before I moved on to other games, as I'm already forgetting about GW2 as I enjoy Torchlight 2. I didn't even know topics updated in this section show up under recent posts on the front page of the site. And now, the review... Gameplay and Combat: 6.0 Let's rewind to a few months before release. I didn't have access to BWE. I could watch videos, which don't really tell you much about certain aspects of an mmo, character creation, customization, skill choices, etc. No one was really talking about how combat worked outside of wild claims of how much skill it took to move your character away from attacks and hit the dodge button. I was honestly a little intimidated. I look back at those feelings now and laugh. Having come from DC Universe, I can tell you that game's movement and attacks are both more varied and involve ten times as much skill as that of GW2. I know because I never mastered it in DCUO, but I was good enough that I could see how others were able to counter all my common block breaking and stunlock tricks. Truly impressive gameplay there, but too high level for a casual non-tekkenish player like myself. Guild wars 2 on the other hand took all of an hour or so, and only because when you first start out you don't have access to all the skills available on the weapon you equip. But afterwards, you learn a flow, and moving is easy, dodging even easier (especially for me, who set it to the spacebar.) Outside of endurance for dodge (you get 2 dodges per full bar whooopeee), there's no resource management. There's no mana, no rage, no energy, etc. Necromancers almost get what would be considered a resource to gather and spend, but I didn't spend enough time with them to say much about it, except it was very simplistic. Instead, I was a ranger. Considered by many a powerful choice, I do not disagree. Oddly though, my pet was more powerful than me. I didn't test much without trait points allocated, but with 20 into pet attributes, it consistently outdamaged me, and could take more punishment, and regened life faster. I was hoping to have a powerful sniper, but instead I was a beastmaster. That's the thing, there's no real glass cannons, there's no powerful snipers, there's no stealth class. There's no tanks, there's no healers. The classes are very similar in functionality, and the differences are mostly skin deep aesthetics. DPS, dodge, use your heal skill, etc You'll hear a lot about these magical things called combo fields. Mostly impractically and usually ineffective, they can sometimes help your group. I have yet to see the miracle in person though. As if combo fields and dodging can replace resource management, healing, and agro management. Pure hubris on the part of the devs. Character development and customization: 6.0 You can dye your armor. Just saying that makes me excited. Unfortunately, GW2 seems to suck the life right out of it by restricting dyes and making any good ones cost prohibitive until you get up in levels. Even at 43 I cannot afford a black dye, let alone the truly black abyss dye. There's also not that many different styles of armor, and if you want to keep one style you need to use a rare consumable to transfer the look. Strange to bring it up again, but in DCUO you colored pieces how you wanted and once you unlocked a certain style you could use it freely. Perhaps that system is too lax, but somewhere in between these two systems surely there's perfection. On the development front, 50% of what your character can do is a simple matter of equiping a weapon. Honestly the system is borderline bizarre. No choices at all, really? Then the other half of your skillbar are skills you can unlock, there's a lot of choice here, but as a ranger, most the abilities were so lackluster that it hardly mattered. The heal was of obvious importance, but the utilities were crap. I went with the passives after trying most of them. Then there's traits. Magical in the same way combo fields are, I believe that they do change how your character performs in various areas, but there's no active abilities gleaned from traits. Instead, you spend points wherever it will most increase your damage, as most consider toughness/healing power/vit pointless to up with trait points. Overall, as someone who came from Diablo 3 very recently, I was already tired of the lack of stat points, skill trees, etc, and GW2 was even more restrictive. Crafting: 4.0 In the beginning of the game I may have given this a 9, but as I continued to craft, but came up short on ingredients I needed, having to buy them off the trading post for more than I could really afford, I don't like it. Not only do you already devote time to the endeavor, and despite what anyone says, it doesn't award that much xp/hour, you then lose money instead of gaining it, and outside of early levels, it's unlikely you'll keep up enough to provide yourself upgrades or make any sort of profit. Isn't that the point of crafting? What do mmo devs not understand about this? WvW: 3.0 I'd like to hear from some old school DAoC (original frontiers, not new frontiers) players who liked it's RvR and how they feel WvW compares. To me it's pretty crappy. It's simplistic, and at the same time requires several players to get even the smallest task complete, and usually you need siege if you don't want it to take an hour. It's a bad cumbersome unfun system. Before the game was released, people made wild claims about WvW. They said that everyone was on equal footing in terms of character power, no matter what their level, and they said it was the fastest way to level. Neither claim is even in the ballpark of reality. Leveling is slow, you'll die a lot, you'll spend a lot on repair costs, and you'll spend a lot of time just running hoping to find a fight you can get some xp out of before you die again. And level 80s have many more trait points and much better gear that directly effects the damage they can give and take, and they will beat you up and take your lunchmoney, and if they don't then they suck and have bad gear, probably from leveling all the way up in WvW. It's not fair at all to lower level players, who don't get their own zones. Instead of having 4 different WvW zones where one is busy and 3 are not, all at level 80, they could have had Eternal at 80, and one at 30 for a cap, 50, and 65 or 70. I didn't do sPvP, I don't care about capture the flag or whatever it is they do in there. I like war, like in WoW early days at tarren mill/southshore, or DAoC old frontiers, or even in warhammer online. In truth there's no war here. No factions, no world pvp. Just a cumbersome war game outside the reality of the rest of the game. It's just another immersion breaker, and makes you wonder, what's the point? PvE: 7.0 It's actually not bad at first. Just running out and doing some stuff without collecting a novel full of quests. I always thought the way oldschool WoW did it was a bit obnoxious. I prefer a handful of quests that chain together to make a story or drama, of which I am not the star, but an important player. GW2 doesn't offer that. And after a while, DE's seem all the same, boss encounters seem all the same. spam spam spam that attack, done. Hearts and collecting vistas and POIs and waypoints is not a replacement for questing. It just doesn't fill the gap that's left from not having any sort of meaningful quest system. And it gets old fast. Not only that, but DEs are so dumbed down and simplistic, and you are never awarded loot. In general loot is very boring even when you find an upgrade. I only played one dungeon. It was a chaotic yet boring spamfest, with cutscenes that only I actually watched while the rest of my group left me behind. In general it wasn't fun. Aesthetics: 9.0 I don't care for the style, especially of mobiles, but the scenery is nice and the graphics quality is clearly impressive. Overall,:not good. You can do the math yourself. I spent 300 bucks upgrading to an i5 to play this game at better than a slideshow. I'm not just some guy who plopped the game in and played for 5 minutes without anything invested into it. What irks me the most is how hyped up the game was by people making wild claims that were simply untrue after playing BWEs. Claims about world vs world, and how awesome combat was seem so out of this world. I only now review it, as I think I'm ready to move on. For the past week I've been trying very hard to log in and have fun, and it's just too boring. With borderlands 2, TL2, and D3 1.05 looming, I don't see why I should waste anymore time. Otherwise I would have gotten to 80 before writing a review. On a final note, doing things differently does not warrant the title revolutionary if the change is bad, and most of the divergence of GW2's systems from the mold are downgrades. Kudos to the devs for trying, but whoever came up with the replacement systems for the trinity, dungeons, questing, and pvp simply did a bad job.
Good review but unfotunetly its only your Opinion,
~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~
Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by grimal Originally posted by Aerowyn
gone over why I have so many posts several times you are welcome to search for it:) I'm asking more out of curiosity as when I dislike a game like torchligh 2 for example I have no desire to bitch and moan about it..I just toss it aside and move to something I enjoy... guess I'm just strange I dunno
No need, I was just trying to illustrate a point. But it seems it may have been lost....what I am saying is people have reasons for doing things that may seem foreign to others. Just a part of life. What may seem odd to you is not to others and vice-versa.
Just seems odd ...something a troubled person would do , but to each their own I guess
Nice review. Thanks for taking the time.
I have to agree with op.
I had high hopes for this game but was disappointed
Seems most games get to much hype before launch only to disappoint, sad.
Originally posted by Alber_gamer I'd rate GW2 higher than the OP in a few points, for an average score of 7.5 - 8. However, I genuinely believe he is right with the Community score. It's the worst Community I have ever witnessed, surpassing in a very short time that of WoW in every bad aspect. Nobody is capable of respecting each other's opinions and understanding that it's that, opinions, and people do not care if they are a minority or a majority as long as they can freely voice their opinion without being bashed mindlessly. In fact, it is probably thanks to the awful community that the game is so relentlessly bashed by "haters". It's a bounce-back effect from the overhype and overfanboyism (please don't shoot me down for using those terms, I use them just so we're all in the same page about what we speak about). The game itself is dissociating to the extreme, and even in dungeons you're encouraged to play self-serving builds with no teamplay involved (hey, you asked for no trinity, that's your reward).
That's not been my experience at all. Are you basing this judgement on forum arguments? In game I meet lots of helpful people. People often take the time, at personal risk, to help me when I've been downed in a champion fight or WvW. People will often stop and help me kill mobs or deal with a zerg of mobs that respawned. I don't think that is a mark of bad community as well.
In many games I've played other players won't stop and help you at all because you're not in a formal group with them. In some other games players get angry when you try and help them because it cuts their xp or drops.
When I'm in game I don't really care about others opinions one way or another and outside of /map chat I don't see a lot of arguing going on. So does an awful community, which is subjectively labeled by the way, an excuse and reason to relentlessly bash, flame, bait, and taunt people?
So what lesson do you think you're teaching everyone with your "I told you so" post? Are you solving the problem or a part of it?
Originally posted by zonon I have to agree with op. I had high hopes for this game but was disappointed Seems most games get to much hype before launch only to disappoint, sad. /Z
You would think gamers would learn after a while. It seems they like to repeatedly bash their face into a brick wall until bloody, then expect some different result, and bitch to high heaven when they feel the pain. How silly is that? My point is gamers should take some responsibility for their own expectations a little more often and pull the helpless victim card a lot less.
Originally posted by adam_nox Gameplay and Combat: 6.0 Character development and customization: 6.0 Crafting: 4.0 WvW: 3.0 PvE: 7.0 Aesthetics: 9.0 Overall,:not good. You can do the math yourself.
I snipped your comments, so as to prevent a giant quote, people can read the OP if they need to see his comments.
Your score for combat and gameplay I feel is unfounded, especially considering your refernces to DCUO. DCUO was somewhat complex, but only because of convoluted many of the commands are. The control scheme was designed with a controller in mind and I feel did not translate well to keyboard and mouse. Additionally, I feel too much emphasis was placed on the mouse/controller combat and your actual powers were mere utility.
GW2's combat is much better. You need timing to pull off proper evades, and know when to soak up minor hits to avoid major ones. The gameplay is also very smooth, I never had pure unreponsiveness from any of my characters ever, which is something that happens in many other mmos.
I completely agree on character development and customization. I kept running into weird issues with transmutation stones, so I couldn't transmute whatever I wanted (within reason). The options for facial features and what not are also severely lacking. It's 2012, we need more character customization, not less.
Completely agree with crafting. It's a mostly useless endeavor that has been made extremely tedious with anti-farming code and rarity of low level rare crafting materials. I should feasibly be able to gather up enough mats for a new suit of armor every 10 levels, but the drop rates are so poor that I wasn't even able to do that. Crafting is a complete and utter grind in a game that boasted to take away tediousness.
WvW I would give it a 8 when it works. What screws it up is the massive amount of server imbalance. If you are on a server that doesn't have 24/7 guilds, you are done. The large pop servers will always dominate because much of the time they will be met with little resistence. Finding challenge is nice, but far too often are the matches completely skewed. One server should not have more than double the score of the other two combined. Holding everything the entire time is far too easy for the larger pop servers. Which means that folks will jump ship to more dominate servers and only make the problem worse. In lieu of the issues, I feel your 3 is warranted, but like I said it can go as high as 8 when the server matches are even.
sPvP is really good actually. I've played as a thief, warrior, guardian, ranger and elementalist. I met counters for any build I used on any profession. In terms of structured pvp, GW2 does it really well and I would give it a 9.
PvE I would actually give this a 7 as well. Dynamic events are far too random much of the time. Having major world bosses on 2 hour timers (like the Shatterer) is far too uncommon. Hourly would be preferrable. The other events in lower level zones, which are very underpopulated now, do not scale properly often if you are by yourself. I found it very easy to become impossibly overwhelmed in many normal events as a low level.
Aesthetics I give it a 10. There is so much going on in the world around, there's a ton of flavor all around.
I really like GW2, but there's many flaws that keep it from becoming a tremendous game. There simply just needs to be more things going on, and in more balanced ways. Additionally, crafting should not be anything remotely resembling a chore until the much higher levels of it.
I'm having a pretty good time. The hype ruins it for more people than the game itself I find. Same thing happened to numerous games that I can think of.
If you go in expecting a bit of fun, you'll be happy. If you go in with that mindset that this is a 'WoW Killer' or some such foolishness, you will be disappointed.
As far as your ratings are concerned. They will probably mean something if people are familiar with other ratings, to give a guage of what they are looking at. If not, then it won't really have much meaning. JMO
Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.
I'm still loving it personally.
Each person has their own likes and dislikes... so not everyone is going to agree with each other.
Originally posted by Omnifish Originally posted by itgrowls Originally posted by adam_nox *Snip* I played for almost a month with my mouth shut.
10.28.2012 "I wish more than probably anyone that this game was fun and sociable. I logged in to check out halloween stuff. After running around a few minutes unsure what to do, I logged back out. "
10.24.2012 "game is already a console level game, with less depth than a lot of console games, including DCUO"
10.15.2012 "after playing GW2, I want to pay a subscription to something that has depth. Not saying TSW is it, I haven't played it, I stumbled in here from the front page. But I had to reply to this, because GW2 has polish and presentation, but it sets the bar very low in almost every other way."
10.12.2012 "Hearts could have worked, but as much as people will hate to admit it, anet was lazy with them. A single bar to fill with a few possible activities all contributing to it, and that's it? They could have had several stages for each heart, where a story develops in a single heart as you progress through it's stages, without changing the general concept."
A whole month huh? Doesn't look like it. Of course this doesn't include those posts that were reported locked and deleted.
So his statement holds true about your constant bashing. In no post by you concerning GW2 was there anything positive. post 10.12.2012 I stopped looking there.
The problem isn't that you are saying something negative the problem is the complete nonsense that you post. Only nonsense posts like those are reported here. There's plenty of negative posts that have reasonable concerns still alive and kicking on these forums.
The thing that gets me is if you have concerns go to their forums and post them in suggestion section. Anet actually does listen to their playerbase, they are one of the very few companies that do.
You get more desperate by the day.
The thread was created on 26/09/12, Guild Wars 2 was relased 28/08/12. So yeah that's a month after release and everything you quote is after the threads pub date. I'm sorry but tons of threads haven't been locked and deleted, I suppose in your warped mind everything that isn't universally praiseworth of GW2 should be eh?
Do you even bother checking this before you start your foaming mouth ranting? Probably not, regardless of whether you agree or not, it's funny how you turn up in every thread to rubbish them even if they are, 'reasonable concerns', or even other threads to do with other games to mention GW2 to people.
There are resonable posters, who really like GW2. You buddy,ain't one of them.
Actually, while itgrowls was incorrect in posting post-dated rants by the OP, he's (I'm assuming?) correct in his assessment that the OP was full of crap with his "I played for about a month with my mouth shut" comment.
Here are some examples. I was going to do a big cut and paste, but just linking to his previous posts with the dates is much easier. :P
OP, I realize that since I brought up your posting history, my argument would be null and void to you, so I'll just let your posts speak for themselves.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
Originally posted by Failtrain I agree with the OP on a lot of points. The game is just too boring for me. I logged on during the halloween event and that was fun while it lasted but now I'm back to just not logging in. I guess I'll just wait for the Wintersday event.
^Advantages of a buy to play model, just sayin'.