I get the fact that people played DAOC. But there were so few games back then. Heck, I played DAOC as did my entire EQ guild. But it just did not really have depth and the whole PVP part of it seemed dull and boring. Confine the PVP to the battle areas.
On EQ Talon Zek we had open world PVP within 8 levels and item+coin loot. I dont even like PVP and am terrible at it, but I played on that server because it was totally alive.with some type of drama every night.
SWG was like that as well but you have two factions. Still open world, anywhere at any time. There was great drama and fun to be found there...and I still stunk at PVP and was bad at it but I still played overt Rebel because it added so much to the gaming experience.
DAOC was controlled PVP and it was boring and although I cannot remember when I started playing it (was very soon after release) the game did not have the same excitement that EQ or SWG had. You know, where you hands are shaking on your keyboard....that was a total rush.
I am not saying you need to have permadeth, of full loot or even perma PVP for everyone....but, damn, SWG had a great PVP system when it first came out and all three Zek servers were wonderful gaming experiences.
Once the MMO developers started to put limits on the "where" factor, like Shadowbane or DAOC, it felt a lot less than the true open world games that had PVP as a big system, but not the core system.
I think TESO is tailor made for a SWG like experience. The lore fits it, the single player games fit it, you can even put three main factions in it and still pull it off.....but the fact that you can only be in one area/continent and PVP has to take place in a separate Cyrodil area....that cheapens the experience.
Originally posted by Aeolron Saying the game is going to " fail " based on some assumptions is pretty stupid. Play the game first then coment.
The game being completely removed from the Lore of the game makes it fail automatically. Zenimax has made it very clear they are making the Elder Scrolls game THEY want, not the one the fans want.
They are basically saying that any piece of fan fiction youve ever written where multiple races interact arent worth their time. Seriously how hard is it for you people defending Zenimax to understand the FAns of this game series have tons of ideas on how they wanted their characters to interact in the Elder Scrolls universe, tons of imaginitive stories we want to tell, but Zenimax insists on telling us those cant happen because THEIR version of the game lore wont allow it.
The thing thay made the ES series great was that they let you make your own stories up, they gave you a setting and let you roam free. Now this would be the perfect chanse for Zenimax to let people do whatever they want in the ES universe but they are just making the same boring linear game as anyone else.
Seriously WHY limit 3 races per faction? Its just the worst design choice, they fucked up ES online with one swift move by limiting peoples imagination.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Kobold Daoc had free for all servers like talons zek too. Difference being it also had actual pvp content, rather than just a flip a switch server.
Yeah Kobald seems to more or less have no idea what he's talking about.
For me Ebonheart is my first pick mainly because of Argonians. Also I like playing humans a ton and the Aldmari don't even have any. My second pick is Daggerfall, and it's to early to tell but I may play Daggerfall simply on the principle of not wanting to be on the most populated faction. Then again I hate to lose so if Ebonheart is going to be dominant (as many are predicting, myself included) then it may be the "easy" choice when it comes to difficulty and Daggerfall may be the "hard" choice.
Lastly I like Daggerfall because I've never explored those regions. I have however explored Skyrim, Morrowind, and Cyrodill (leaving only Blackmarsh as a "fresh" land for me to explore if I chose Ebonheart). So I could pick Daggerfall on the ideal of seeing something new.
I must have missed the part where DAOC was a popular game. I remember playing it, but sure don't remember it being very popular.
I wonder why they went with the DAOC three-faction system where you cannot actually do anything in the other two areas. Could it be because it is easier to create one region, copy and paste it to the other reagions? Might be. I remember in DAOC the other regions all had basically the same mobs, just resized for each region.
Of course, the proper way to actually do an Elder Scrolls MMO would be create one giant world where anyone can go anywhere, then put in three factions you can join IF you want to PVP anywhere at anytime. If you want nothing to do with PVP, like the vast majority of MMO players, stay neutral. Kind of like SWG where you could be IMP or Rebel or nothing at all and just do whatever you want.
That would require more work and thought.
DAoC at its prime was in the top 3 for subscriptions.
As for doing The Elder Scrolls right, where do you come off stating this isnt the way the world works? In the single player games you are relegated to only 1 country, Skyrim, Oblivian and Marrowing. Just realize in the online game, yo uhave access to 3 areas per faction. If I play as an Ebonheart pact I get access to Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh. Effectively triple the size of the play area I got from playing the single player RPG's.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Originally posted by ShakyMo It's more a rehash of wow / gw2 than a rehash of daoc. The only things daoc is the optional 3 sided outdoor pvp (and even that's on multiple instances) and the open dungeons.
Where as wow Raiding endgame - check with open ended dungeons and mega world exploration like TES and opend raids like in DAoC Instanced mini game pvp matches - check NEGATIVE, TESO does not feature battlegrounds or instanced PvP/Arenas. The only PvP is the 3 faction area of Cryodill Instanced dungeons - check and open dungeons, instanced dungeons are there for the PvE nerds.
Gw2 Personal story - check and Skyrim, Morrowind or Oblivian didnt have a main storyline? TESO jsut like the single player games features tons of open ended questing which is explorable centric unlike WoW where I am guided on rails from 1-80 Semi action combat - check As opposed to what? Actiony style combat is the new rave now plus according to every person who went to the press event the game plays exactly like the single player game Personal story - check so we get 2 checks for the same thing?
Really its not like daoc at all, pvpers couldn't hide in minigames, everything was outdoor and persistent, there was zero instancing, raids were an outdoor thing for the entire realm to pile on, not for an elitist clique, gear wasn't that important etc..
NO MINI GAMES, ZERO BATTLEGROUNDS ALL PVP TAKES PLACE IN THE RVR AREA.
TESO is persistant, it is open ended, free roam explorable mode just like the single player RPG's. To say Gear wasnt important in the single player game is to make a mockery of the game, it is afterall a RPG which features progression. I know guys who spent 300+ hours aquiring the perfect suit of armor in Skyrim.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Originally posted by Aeolron Saying the game is going to " fail " based on some assumptions is pretty stupid. Play the game first then coment.
The game being completely removed from the Lore of the game makes it fail automatically. Zenimax has made it very clear they are making the Elder Scrolls game THEY want, not the one the fans want.
They are basically saying that any piece of fan fiction youve ever written where multiple races interact arent worth their time. Seriously how hard is it for you people defending Zenimax to understand the FAns of this game series have tons of ideas on how they wanted their characters to interact in the Elder Scrolls universe, tons of imaginitive stories we want to tell, but Zenimax insists on telling us those cant happen because THEIR version of the game lore wont allow it.
The thing thay made the ES series great was that they let you make your own stories up, they gave you a setting and let you roam free. Now this would be the perfect chanse for Zenimax to let people do whatever they want in the ES universe but they are just making the same boring linear game as anyone else.
Seriously WHY limit 3 races per faction? Its just the worst design choice, they fucked up ES online with one swift move by limiting peoples imagination.
Did they invite you playing alpha version of the game on press events? I'm not defending but I'm just curious cause you sound like you have experienced this game before.
I love it when the passion is present, the writer here and really the first poster have both displayed, good signs in my book, unfortunately for me I haven't even thought about what I might play yet, to busy in the now I guess
People crack me up...trying to compare this game to Wow is absurd. DAoC was extremely popular until they released Trials of Atlantis expansion which gave huge rvr bonuses to those that completed a long complex quest chain that was not soloable. The rvr in DAoC was the best pvp I have experienced in a MMO. If they can come close to that they will have a big winner.
I see a lot of excitement about Neverwinter on this board, yet the pvp in ESO will blow that game away. Cryptic is and always will be a mediocre development studio. You want to see bad design, go check out Neverwinter.
TESO does have mini game pvp TESO is not a fully persistent world like daoc as it features instanced pvp mini games, instanced pve, instanced personal story and most importantly its on a mega server running multiple instances of every world zone including the pvp zone cyrodil.
Originally posted by ShakyMo It's more a rehash of wow / gw2 than a rehash of daoc. The only things daoc is the optional 3 sided outdoor pvp (and even that's on multiple instances) and the open dungeons.
Where as wow Raiding endgame - check with open ended dungeons and mega world exploration like TES and opend raids like in DAoC Instanced mini game pvp matches - check NEGATIVE, TESO does not feature battlegrounds or instanced PvP/Arenas. The only PvP is the 3 faction area of Cryodill Instanced dungeons - check and open dungeons, instanced dungeons are there for the PvE nerds.
Gw2 Personal story - check and Skyrim, Morrowind or Oblivian didnt have a main storyline? TESO jsut like the single player games features tons of open ended questing which is explorable centric unlike WoW where I am guided on rails from 1-80 Semi action combat - check As opposed to what? Actiony style combat is the new rave now plus according to every person who went to the press event the game plays exactly like the single player game Personal story - check so we get 2 checks for the same thing?
Really its not like daoc at all, pvpers couldn't hide in minigames, everything was outdoor and persistent, there was zero instancing, raids were an outdoor thing for the entire realm to pile on, not for an elitist clique, gear wasn't that important etc..
NO MINI GAMES, ZERO BATTLEGROUNDS ALL PVP TAKES PLACE IN THE RVR AREA.
TESO is persistant, it is open ended, free roam explorable mode just like the single player RPG's. To say Gear wasnt important in the single player game is to make a mockery of the game, it is afterall a RPG which features progression. I know guys who spent 300+ hours aquiring the perfect suit of armor in Skyrim.
its rvr area is like gw2 only with elder scrolls theme attached to it
All or are talking about graphics,game play,game style - u compare ESO to other games....
I think if game is cometitive* and hard* enough it will be a good game. Developers can hardly make game that is not interesting (especially this kind of a game) what destroys MMO games of this type is that people is QQ ing to much for expample. " I payed this game with MY money and i am (paying monthly) i wanna be EPIC and i wanna see the end game content and if not this game suq"
By HARD - i mean that u need to invest into this game,play alot,be hard core player and u will be revarded and ofc that u can show other players ur success so they can envy u and also invest time in the game to be like u.
By COMPETITIVE - i mean that u are surrounded by all kinds of players witch ESO have already implemented in the game when they imtrodused MEGA server.
TESO does have mini game pvp TESO is not a fully persistent world like daoc as it features instanced pvp mini games, instanced pve, instanced personal story and most importantly its on a mega server running multiple instances of every world zone including the pvp zone cyrodil.
no. you are wrong.
there are no 'mini pvp games'. the pvp is in cyrodill. a persistent (doesnt reset like in gw2) zone with public dungeons , towns, quests, npc's, siege warfare.
the game is also just as persistent as every other game that has multiple servers.
"In order to maintain the PvP focus on the massive realm war in Cyrodiil, ZeniMax has elected to not include any form of structured or instanced PvP at launch. They want players’ focus to be on the alliance war, which is the crowning facet of TESO’s gameplay. (TF1)"
TESO does have mini game pvp TESO is not a fully persistent world like daoc as it features instanced pvp mini games, instanced pve, instanced personal story and most importantly its on a mega server running multiple instances of every world zone including the pvp zone cyrodil.
Flat out wrong. You really should read up on your facts.
LOL yeah let's focus on the already-most-popular-faction by a factor of 2:1. that have 2 of the 3 starring races of past TES games in it (the 3rd being Imperials who are not playable).
Not your guys fault, ZOS is pumping them up to be ESO's Albion...and history repeats itself...
This game is gonna fail so hard...
Don't you have anything better to do?
Why? What are you doing right now?
Well, he's not trolling based off of zero fact. I was a Troll in Migard, and I loved it. I could always find some puny Alb or Hib faces to smash in. I don't seem to recall DAoC failing because of population imbalances.
Originally posted by Nemesis7884 i also have the slight feeling this faction could be too popular...even if so, the great feature about a 3 section system is that the two weaker faction can combine their forces and this can even out the playfield... were gonna see...most experienced mmo players rather tend to support the faction with fewest members so
Jade Quarry usually steamroles the opposing worlds in WvWvW. I find the whole 2 weaker will gang up on the stronger faction bullet hard to beleive.
You don't have to believe it. I've witnessed it in DAoC. It works. It may be short lived, but it will happen.
No its not as persistent as daoc or tes. IT HAS INSTANCES. neither of those games do. It sounds akin to wow in that regard.
As for no minigames "yet". Great hope that's true, but they were talking about them a while back.
The game will have instanced raiding, which makes me warry of the crafting, pvp etc..
There has never been a game released yet that had both instanced raiding and good pvp. None. Nada. The raiding always takes over. If they pull it off good luck to them, but I'm super doubtful.
Where as wow Raiding endgame - check Instanced mini game pvp matches - check Instanced dungeons - check
Gw2 Personal story - check Semi action combat - check Personal story - check
Just to point out, WoW didnt introduce endgame raiding or instanced dungeons - they were both in EQ quite a few years before WoW was released. As for GW2, personal story could be argued of for SW:Tor to name one, and semi action combat can be taken from AoC and TSW (if you count dodging).
Wish games would stop using the bolstering effect for PvP. I don't care to be boosted to max lvl, I actually want to fight people my lvl not these high lvls with more abilites and better gear. For the most part you can't compete, yea I've been a low lvl char and killed a high lvl before its fun but it rarely happens.
I'm happy to see games usingthe DAOC 3 faction system but now I wish they would take the battleground system as well, it was the best. These companies need to start picking that up instead of this bolstering garbage.
Comments
I get the fact that people played DAOC. But there were so few games back then. Heck, I played DAOC as did my entire EQ guild. But it just did not really have depth and the whole PVP part of it seemed dull and boring. Confine the PVP to the battle areas.
On EQ Talon Zek we had open world PVP within 8 levels and item+coin loot. I dont even like PVP and am terrible at it, but I played on that server because it was totally alive.with some type of drama every night.
SWG was like that as well but you have two factions. Still open world, anywhere at any time. There was great drama and fun to be found there...and I still stunk at PVP and was bad at it but I still played overt Rebel because it added so much to the gaming experience.
DAOC was controlled PVP and it was boring and although I cannot remember when I started playing it (was very soon after release) the game did not have the same excitement that EQ or SWG had. You know, where you hands are shaking on your keyboard....that was a total rush.
I am not saying you need to have permadeth, of full loot or even perma PVP for everyone....but, damn, SWG had a great PVP system when it first came out and all three Zek servers were wonderful gaming experiences.
Once the MMO developers started to put limits on the "where" factor, like Shadowbane or DAOC, it felt a lot less than the true open world games that had PVP as a big system, but not the core system.
I think TESO is tailor made for a SWG like experience. The lore fits it, the single player games fit it, you can even put three main factions in it and still pull it off.....but the fact that you can only be in one area/continent and PVP has to take place in a separate Cyrodil area....that cheapens the experience.
People will play for Morrowind, not Skyrim.
Why would anyone play a watered down MMO version of Skyrim when theres a good modern version?
But people are DYING to revisit Morrowind, the last great ES game in the series.
Uh... no there weren't...
The game being completely removed from the Lore of the game makes it fail automatically. Zenimax has made it very clear they are making the Elder Scrolls game THEY want, not the one the fans want.
They are basically saying that any piece of fan fiction youve ever written where multiple races interact arent worth their time. Seriously how hard is it for you people defending Zenimax to understand the FAns of this game series have tons of ideas on how they wanted their characters to interact in the Elder Scrolls universe, tons of imaginitive stories we want to tell, but Zenimax insists on telling us those cant happen because THEIR version of the game lore wont allow it.
The thing thay made the ES series great was that they let you make your own stories up, they gave you a setting and let you roam free. Now this would be the perfect chanse for Zenimax to let people do whatever they want in the ES universe but they are just making the same boring linear game as anyone else.
Seriously WHY limit 3 races per faction? Its just the worst design choice, they fucked up ES online with one swift move by limiting peoples imagination.
Daoc had free for all servers like talons zek too. Difference being it also had actual pvp content, rather than just a flip a switch server.
Yeah Kobald seems to more or less have no idea what he's talking about.
For me Ebonheart is my first pick mainly because of Argonians. Also I like playing humans a ton and the Aldmari don't even have any. My second pick is Daggerfall, and it's to early to tell but I may play Daggerfall simply on the principle of not wanting to be on the most populated faction. Then again I hate to lose so if Ebonheart is going to be dominant (as many are predicting, myself included) then it may be the "easy" choice when it comes to difficulty and Daggerfall may be the "hard" choice.
Lastly I like Daggerfall because I've never explored those regions. I have however explored Skyrim, Morrowind, and Cyrodill (leaving only Blackmarsh as a "fresh" land for me to explore if I chose Ebonheart). So I could pick Daggerfall on the ideal of seeing something new.
DAoC at its prime was in the top 3 for subscriptions.
As for doing The Elder Scrolls right, where do you come off stating this isnt the way the world works? In the single player games you are relegated to only 1 country, Skyrim, Oblivian and Marrowing. Just realize in the online game, yo uhave access to 3 areas per faction. If I play as an Ebonheart pact I get access to Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh. Effectively triple the size of the play area I got from playing the single player RPG's.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
NO MINI GAMES, ZERO BATTLEGROUNDS ALL PVP TAKES PLACE IN THE RVR AREA.
TESO is persistant, it is open ended, free roam explorable mode just like the single player RPG's. To say Gear wasnt important in the single player game is to make a mockery of the game, it is afterall a RPG which features progression. I know guys who spent 300+ hours aquiring the perfect suit of armor in Skyrim.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Argonians 4 life!
(or Orc, but my Orc would only be a blacksmith, not a warrior at all)
Did they invite you playing alpha version of the game on press events? I'm not defending but I'm just curious cause you sound like you have experienced this game before.
People crack me up...trying to compare this game to Wow is absurd. DAoC was extremely popular until they released Trials of Atlantis expansion which gave huge rvr bonuses to those that completed a long complex quest chain that was not soloable. The rvr in DAoC was the best pvp I have experienced in a MMO. If they can come close to that they will have a big winner.
I see a lot of excitement about Neverwinter on this board, yet the pvp in ESO will blow that game away. Cryptic is and always will be a mediocre development studio. You want to see bad design, go check out Neverwinter.
You are wrong
TESO does have mini game pvp
TESO is not a fully persistent world like daoc as it features instanced pvp mini games, instanced pve, instanced personal story and most importantly its on a mega server running multiple instances of every world zone including the pvp zone cyrodil.
its rvr area is like gw2 only with elder scrolls theme attached to it
All or are talking about graphics,game play,game style - u compare ESO to other games....
I think if game is cometitive* and hard* enough it will be a good game. Developers can hardly make game that is not interesting (especially this kind of a game) what destroys MMO games of this type is that people is QQ ing to much for expample. " I payed this game with MY money and i am (paying monthly) i wanna be EPIC and i wanna see the end game content and if not this game suq"
By HARD - i mean that u need to invest into this game,play alot,be hard core player and u will be revarded and ofc that u can show other players ur success so they can envy u and also invest time in the game to be like u.
By COMPETITIVE - i mean that u are surrounded by all kinds of players witch ESO have already implemented in the game when they imtrodused MEGA server.
But i will play Dominion for sure !
Cheers
no. you are wrong.
there are no 'mini pvp games'. the pvp is in cyrodill. a persistent (doesnt reset like in gw2) zone with public dungeons , towns, quests, npc's, siege warfare.
the game is also just as persistent as every other game that has multiple servers.
"In order to maintain the PvP focus on the massive realm war in Cyrodiil, ZeniMax has elected to not include any form of structured or instanced PvP at launch. They want players’ focus to be on the alliance war, which is the crowning facet of TESO’s gameplay. (TF1)"
Flat out wrong. You really should read up on your facts.
Well, he's not trolling based off of zero fact. I was a Troll in Migard, and I loved it. I could always find some puny Alb or Hib faces to smash in. I don't seem to recall DAoC failing because of population imbalances.
You don't have to believe it. I've witnessed it in DAoC. It works. It may be short lived, but it will happen.
No its not as persistent as daoc or tes. IT HAS INSTANCES.
neither of those games do. It sounds akin to wow in that regard.
As for no minigames "yet". Great hope that's true, but they were talking about them a while back.
The game will have instanced raiding, which makes me warry of the crafting, pvp etc..
There has never been a game released yet that had both instanced raiding and good pvp. None. Nada. The raiding always takes over. If they pull it off good luck to them, but I'm super doubtful.
Just to point out, WoW didnt introduce endgame raiding or instanced dungeons - they were both in EQ quite a few years before WoW was released. As for GW2, personal story could be argued of for SW:Tor to name one, and semi action combat can be taken from AoC and TSW (if you count dodging).
Wish games would stop using the bolstering effect for PvP. I don't care to be boosted to max lvl, I actually want to fight people my lvl not these high lvls with more abilites and better gear. For the most part you can't compete, yea I've been a low lvl char and killed a high lvl before its fun but it rarely happens.
I'm happy to see games usingthe DAOC 3 faction system but now I wish they would take the battleground system as well, it was the best. These companies need to start picking that up instead of this bolstering garbage.