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Quarterly raport from NCSoft

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  • IPolygonIPolygon Member UncommonPosts: 707
    Originally posted by Larsa

    Originally posted by evolver1972Why would the pre-purchases be included in Q3?  It would make more sense that they be included in Q2 since that's when they actually offered the pre-purchase.

    Sorry, but I don't think you know what "makes sense" from an accounting point-of-view. Look-up the term "deferred revenue", it's a common accounting practice.


    Originally posted by evolver1972

    As for the numbers, they look correct if you consider that NCSoft is only the publisher, not the developer.  This is how much gross profit NCSoft made from GW2, not how much it raked in overall or what Anet's cut of it was. ...


    Sorry, but that is wrong again. NCSoft is both publisher and developer for GW2. AreneNet is 100% owned by NCSoft and included in the financial report. The report even tells you so.

     

    Nope, it doesn't. ANet have said multiple times they enjoy much freedom and have the backup of NCSoft. You don't do that if you basically are the same, unless you are schizophrenic.
  • LarsaLarsa Member Posts: 990
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    Originally posted by Larsa

     


    Originally posted by evolver1972

     

    Why would the pre-purchases be included in Q3?  It would make more sense that they be included in Q2 since that's when they actually offered the pre-purchase.


     

    Sorry, but I don't think you know what "makes sense" from an accounting point-of-view. Look-up the term "deferred revenue", it's a common accounting practice.

     


    Originally posted by evolver1972

     

    As for the numbers, they look correct if you consider that NCSoft is only the publisher, not the developer.  This is how much gross profit NCSoft made from GW2, not how much it raked in overall or what Anet's cut of it was. ...


     

    Sorry, but that is wrong again. NCSoft is both publisher and developer for GW2. AreneNet is 100% owned by NCSoft and included in the financial report. The report even tells you so.

     

    Nope, it doesn't. ANet have said multiple times they enjoy much freedom and have the backup of NCSoft. You don't do that if you basically are the same, unless you are schizophrenic.

     

    You seem to have a problem with comprehension: the financial report clearly states that the results of ArenaNet are included. ArenaNet is a 100% owned subsidiary of NCSoft.

     

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    Originally posted by Larsa

     


    Originally posted by evolver1972

     

    Why would the pre-purchases be included in Q3?  It would make more sense that they be included in Q2 since that's when they actually offered the pre-purchase.


     

    Sorry, but I don't think you know what "makes sense" from an accounting point-of-view. Look-up the term "deferred revenue", it's a common accounting practice.

     


    Originally posted by evolver1972

     

    As for the numbers, they look correct if you consider that NCSoft is only the publisher, not the developer.  This is how much gross profit NCSoft made from GW2, not how much it raked in overall or what Anet's cut of it was. ...


     

    Sorry, but that is wrong again. NCSoft is both publisher and developer for GW2. AreneNet is 100% owned by NCSoft and included in the financial report. The report even tells you so.

     

    Nope, it doesn't. ANet have said multiple times they enjoy much freedom and have the backup of NCSoft. You don't do that if you basically are the same, unless you are schizophrenic.

     

    They may have creative freedom but they sure don't have financial freedom.

     

    Consolidated Sales Breakdown by Game (Excluding Royalties)

    NCSOFT Corp. & Subsidiaries

    (January 2012~ September 2012)

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Sukiyaki
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    To those pretending Blade and Soul does better than GW2, you're comparing a sub based game during 3 months with a B2P game released since only one month. Apples and Oranges. But considering who posted such comparisons, the misinformation is not surprising.

    Massively.com made the comparison... Are accusing massively of misinformation too?

    Yes, wouldnt be the first time.

    Like Massively ( = Joistic = Blizzards dandy boy media outlet) recently tearing over NCSoft profits in the red numbers writing it off  as if the company was going bancrupt, completely ignorant of the high investment spikes, high labour cost spikes and the company releasing two new major games free betas which both now already made more tha n 90 Million Dollar together in less than 4 months time.

    In the end you where wrong and biased The others where wrong and biased. Massively where wrong and clueless/biased. Collectively repeating the same false information, does not make it any less wrong.

    I'm going to side with the massively on this one. It's gonna take more than you saying they are wrong.

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • sammyelisammyeli Member Posts: 765

    Looks like WoW is the cause of this stock drop amirite?????

     

    image

    “The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.”

    Carl Sagan-

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,898
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by Mahavishnu
    If this numbers are true, I would say, this is not enough.

    2~ million sales for the first month isn't enough for what exactly?

    $43 million gross from those 2 million box sales + September sales of gems for cash isn't really that hot.  Not that hot at all.

     

    I don't have an agenda.  I don't want GW2 to fail, I want them to succeed because I like their business model and think they just need to correct end game.

  • Creslin4321Creslin4321 Member Posts: 19

    Threads like this are why I deleted my account lol.

    Please guys...just step back and look at what you are doing.  It's such a waste of time...you don't need to sit here and try to learn accounting just so you can justify your opinion that a game is failing or successful.

    Imagine what you could accomplish if you channeled all this energy into something else.  Maybe next time you have a test coming up, just imagine that your teacher is trying to prove that GW2 is a failure (if you are a fan) or a great success (if you are not), and the only way to disprove her is to get a great score on the test.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628


    Originally posted by Creslin4321
    Threads like this are why I deleted my account lol.

    haha best line ever!

    I was wondering where you went. Just ask them to un-delete your account

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Sukiyaki
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    To those pretending Blade and Soul does better than GW2, you're comparing a sub based game during 3 months with a B2P game released since only one month. Apples and Oranges. But considering who posted such comparisons, the misinformation is not surprising.

    Massively.com made the comparison... Are accusing massively of misinformation too?

    Yes, wouldnt be the first time.

    Like Massively ( = Joistic = Blizzards dandy boy media outlet) recently tearing over NCSoft profits in the red numbers writing it off  as if the company was going bancrupt, completely ignorant of the high investment spikes, high labour cost spikes and the company releasing two new major games free betas which both now already made more tha n 90 Million Dollar together in less than 4 months time.

    In the end you where wrong and biased The others where wrong and biased. Massively where wrong and clueless/biased. Collectively repeating the same false information, does not make it any less wrong.

    I'm going to side with the massively on this one. It's gonna take more than you saying they are wrong.

    Maybe you should try and read and think for yourself instead.  In Q3 GW2 performed better than any other NCSoft title garnering 27% of the pre-royalty revenue.

    I highlighted what my post pertains too. Better or worse considering launch location and w/e else idk.

     

    It was massively who made the comparision though. Not OP.

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Looks like Blade & Soul is doing better than GW2, considering that it's only available in Korea.

    How is that?    GW2 sold more units...    It make 10 billion more KRW...

    And GW2 did that in one single month of release without any subscriptions, while Blade and Soul was already launched during the whole three months and is sub based.

    Truth is, GW2 crushes Blade and Soul success wise. Big time.

    If game A makes a profit of 80M by selling just in, say France, while game B makes a 100M profit by selling worldwide, you'd consider game B more profitable?

    Also, a subscription based game sold only in one country made almost the same profit as the fabled subsription killer sold everywhere?

    The financial situation that NCsoft is finding itself due to the underperforming heavy hitters raises some further questions:

    • Can Anet finance both the service model and the development of new content at an acceptable pace? (The previous title is not an indication, since it wasn't a full fledged mmoprg.)
    • Is the B2P model as presented in GW2 an actual viable alternative to the subscription and F2P models? (So many threads in these forums tooting the death of subscription, only to see the financial results not backing those claims).
    The next quarter will definitely be more interesting, since it will be crystal clear on whether the third quarter had the bulk of sales due to the multi-month pre-order campaign (campaign launched on April 10th, game launched almost 5 months later on August 28th) and how well the cash shop can finance the game in the long term.
  • Creslin4321Creslin4321 Member Posts: 19
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Creslin4321
    Threads like this are why I deleted my account lol.

     

    haha best line ever!

    I was wondering where you went. Just ask them to un-delete your account

     Hehe nah, I want it to stay deleted.  For some reason, the fact that it doesn't exist anymore makes me feel much less inclined to get involved with threads like this.

    Anytime I think I might want to involve myself in a massive circular argument, I just look at my newbie account name in the upper left hand corner of my screen and am reminded not to ;).

  • KuppaKuppa Member UncommonPosts: 3,292
    Originally posted by Creslin4321
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Creslin4321
    Threads like this are why I deleted my account lol.

     

    haha best line ever!

    I was wondering where you went. Just ask them to un-delete your account

     Hehe nah, I want it to stay deleted.  For some reason, the fact that it doesn't exist anymore makes me feel much less inclined to get involved with threads like this.

    Anytime I think I might want to involve myself in a massive circular argument, I just look at my newbie account name in the upper left hand corner of my screen and am reminded not to ;).

    Don't run from your calling Creslin. You were destined, like all of us, to be a forum creep!

    image


    image

  • Creslin4321Creslin4321 Member Posts: 19
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Creslin4321
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Creslin4321
    Threads like this are why I deleted my account lol.

     

    haha best line ever!

    I was wondering where you went. Just ask them to un-delete your account

     Hehe nah, I want it to stay deleted.  For some reason, the fact that it doesn't exist anymore makes me feel much less inclined to get involved with threads like this.

    Anytime I think I might want to involve myself in a massive circular argument, I just look at my newbie account name in the upper left hand corner of my screen and am reminded not to ;).

    Don't run from your calling Creslin. You were destined, like all of us, to be a forum creep!

     

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641
    Originally posted by Creslin4321

    Threads like this are why I deleted my account lol.

    Please guys...just step back and look at what you are doing.  It's such a waste of time...you don't need to sit here and try to learn accounting just so you can justify your opinion that a game is failing or successful.

    Imagine what you could accomplish if you channeled all this energy into something else.  Maybe next time you have a test coming up, just imagine that your teacher is trying to prove that GW2 is a failure (if you are a fan) or a great success (if you are not), and the only way to disprove her is to get a great score on the test.

     

    By analysing the data from the financial reports we can see how well GW2 is doing and that will give us an insight into how profitable the b2p model is. That for me is an interesting debate and a very valid way of expending my energy as that will determine if I feel gaming companies are genuinely ripping us off with subs as Mike O'Brien has suggested in the past. Because you flounced off and deleted your account and cannot understand these types of threads has very little bearing on this debate, its not about whether GW2 is a success or not its about the validity of the payment model which GW2 fans have been telling us for the past year is "the future" now we have some hard data to see if that is true, and that benefits us all.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Creslin4321

    Threads like this are why I deleted my account lol.

    Please guys...just step back and look at what you are doing.  It's such a waste of time...you don't need to sit here and try to learn accounting just so you can justify your opinion that a game is failing or successful.

    Imagine what you could accomplish if you channeled all this energy into something else.  Maybe next time you have a test coming up, just imagine that your teacher is trying to prove that GW2 is a failure (if you are a fan) or a great success (if you are not), and the only way to disprove her is to get a great score on the test.

     

    By analysing the data from the financial reports we can see how well GW2 is doing and that will give us an insight into how profitable the b2p model is. That for me is an interesting debate and a very valid way of expending my energy as that will determine if I feel gaming companies are genuinely ripping us off with subs as Mike O'Brien has suggested in the past. Because you flounced off and deleted your account and cannot understand these types of threads has very little bearing on this debate, its not about whether GW2 is a success or not its about the validity of the payment model which GW2 fans have been telling us for the past year is "the future" now we have some hard data to see if that is true, and that benefits us all.

    I don't know exactly what he meant and I won't attempt to speak for him but what I see here is a bunch of people ill-equipped to do a sensible financial analysis, spinning and re-spinning misunderstood statistics to further their habitual pro or anti-GW2 posting history.

     

    Looking at the 3rd quarter GW2 contribution to NCsoft revenues, when GW2 existed for barely over one month of that quatrter, and trying to draw conclusions about the viability of the same old P2P model the GW franchise has always used from that incomplete data is just...well...calling it "circular" is being kind.

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

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  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,363
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Creslin4321

    Threads like this are why I deleted my account lol.

    Please guys...just step back and look at what you are doing.  It's such a waste of time...you don't need to sit here and try to learn accounting just so you can justify your opinion that a game is failing or successful.

    Imagine what you could accomplish if you channeled all this energy into something else.  Maybe next time you have a test coming up, just imagine that your teacher is trying to prove that GW2 is a failure (if you are a fan) or a great success (if you are not), and the only way to disprove her is to get a great score on the test.

     

    By analysing the data from the financial reports we can see how well GW2 is doing and that will give us an insight into how profitable the b2p model is. That for me is an interesting debate and a very valid way of expending my energy as that will determine if I feel gaming companies are genuinely ripping us off with subs as Mike O'Brien has suggested in the past. Because you flounced off and deleted your account and cannot understand these types of threads has very little bearing on this debate, its not about whether GW2 is a success or not its about the validity of the payment model which GW2 fans have been telling us for the past year is "the future" now we have some hard data to see if that is true, and that benefits us all.

    Creslin is spot on - what we get is these circle jerks where you have 'It's a terrible game - see the data' and others 'See it is a great game - see the data' all from the same set of numbers. It is the interpretation that is the insane part not the numbers - the numbers are just that, numbers.

     

    How does it benefit us all? It only matters if you care - I don't but I do feel the need to put my $0.02 in hence why I am writing.

     

    Now back to the circle jerk.......


  • Creslin4321Creslin4321 Member Posts: 19
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Creslin4321

    Threads like this are why I deleted my account lol.

    Please guys...just step back and look at what you are doing.  It's such a waste of time...you don't need to sit here and try to learn accounting just so you can justify your opinion that a game is failing or successful.

    Imagine what you could accomplish if you channeled all this energy into something else.  Maybe next time you have a test coming up, just imagine that your teacher is trying to prove that GW2 is a failure (if you are a fan) or a great success (if you are not), and the only way to disprove her is to get a great score on the test.

     

    By analysing the data from the financial reports we can see how well GW2 is doing and that will give us an insight into how profitable the b2p model is. That for me is an interesting debate and a very valid way of expending my energy as that will determine if I feel gaming companies are genuinely ripping us off with subs as Mike O'Brien has suggested in the past. Because you flounced off and deleted your account and cannot understand these types of threads has very little bearing on this debate, its not about whether GW2 is a success or not its about the validity of the payment model which GW2 fans have been telling us for the past year is "the future" now we have some hard data to see if that is true, and that benefits us all.

    I don't know exactly what he meant and I won't attempt to speak for him but what I see here is a bunch of people ill-equipped to do a sensible financial analysis, spinning and re-spinning misunderstood statistics to further their habitual pro or anti-GW2 posting history.

     

    Looking at the 3rd quarter GW2 contribution to NCsoft revenues, when GW2 existed for barely over one month of that quatrter, and trying to draw conclusions about the viability of the same old P2P model the GW franchise has always used from that incomplete data is just...well...calling it "circular" is being kind.

     Yep, that's exactly what I meant...and I agree with botyritis post as well.  It just goes on over and over and over again.

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641
    Well how about you three guys withdraw gracefully and let us get on with it if we so choose? 

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • Creslin4321Creslin4321 Member Posts: 19
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Well how about you three guys withdraw gracefully and let us get on with it if we so choose? 

     Lay on Macduff ;)

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Creslin4321

    Threads like this are why I deleted my account lol.

    Please guys...just step back and look at what you are doing.  It's such a waste of time...you don't need to sit here and try to learn accounting just so you can justify your opinion that a game is failing or successful.

    Imagine what you could accomplish if you channeled all this energy into something else.  Maybe next time you have a test coming up, just imagine that your teacher is trying to prove that GW2 is a failure (if you are a fan) or a great success (if you are not), and the only way to disprove her is to get a great score on the test.

     

    By analysing the data from the financial reports we can see how well GW2 is doing and that will give us an insight into how profitable the b2p model is. That for me is an interesting debate and a very valid way of expending my energy as that will determine if I feel gaming companies are genuinely ripping us off with subs as Mike O'Brien has suggested in the past. Because you flounced off and deleted your account and cannot understand these types of threads has very little bearing on this debate, its not about whether GW2 is a success or not its about the validity of the payment model which GW2 fans have been telling us for the past year is "the future" now we have some hard data to see if that is true, and that benefits us all.

    Well said and I agree. The topic of this thread was unexpectedly early. TBH, I didn't see this happening for a while. But it was still inevitable at any rate. So what now? What can we expect from GW2's Cash Shop now? What's NC-Soft going to do to increase revenue? Maybe nothing. Maybe they plan on business as usual. But you cannot dismiss the possibility that NC-Soft will step in at some point and demand changes to increase profits. What about developers who adopt the B2P model in the future?  You guys want no subs? You think one (not so) shinning example of a revenue model ushers in a new era? Look at what Funcom is doing to it's Anarchy Online playerbase,  with it's full AAA sub fee and a P2W cash shop. How many other companies can you say you trust to use this model with the same level of discretion ANET has shown? Which is also subject to change at this rate. B2P is an open door to a slippery slope. I for one am glad there is evidence to show it's not the model many claimed it was.

  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Looks like Blade & Soul is doing better than GW2, considering that it's only available in Korea.

    How is that?    GW2 sold more units...    It make 10 billion more KRW...

    And GW2 did that in one single month of release without any subscriptions, while Blade and Soul was already launched during the whole three months and is sub based.

    Truth is, GW2 crushes Blade and Soul success wise. Big time.

    And yet next quarter, Blade & Soul will, assuming steady subs, make a similar amount whereas GW2 sales will be less as most of the people who are going to buy it did so at release.

  • gipper36gipper36 Member Posts: 23
    ncsoft can s m d,i wouldnt play another one of their games if they paid me!
  • gipper36gipper36 Member Posts: 23
    but thx much for update
  • muffins89muffins89 Member UncommonPosts: 1,585
    Originally posted by gipper36
    ncsoft can s m d,i wouldnt play another one of their games if they paid me!

    they really have put out some terrible games over the years.  at least imo. 

     

    also i lol'd cause you sat in silence for over year and then dropped smd in your first post.  kudos.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628


    Originally posted by Creslin4321
    Originally posted by Foomerang   Originally posted by Creslin4321 Threads like this are why I deleted my account lol.
      haha best line ever! I was wondering where you went. Just ask them to un-delete your account
     Hehe nah, I want it to stay deleted.  For some reason, the fact that it doesn't exist anymore makes me feel much less inclined to get involved with threads like this.

    Anytime I think I might want to involve myself in a massive circular argument, I just look at my newbie account name in the upper left hand corner of my screen and am reminded not to ;).


    Hehe i can sympathize. I ditched this account and made DannyGlover as a dummy account. Ended up posting just as much so i just switched back to my main haha

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