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EQ next!! who want punishing death?

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Damage99
    Create a hardcore ruleset server which employs a few mechanics reminicent of the old days.  As long as it were planned in the design the development for such a server would be minimal.

    This i agree.

    This is no difference than the fact that Diablo 3 has a hard core option. Like you say, if it is planned in the design, the costs of doing it probaly is not going to be huge, and that will make a lot of people happy.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,418Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Isn't it strange how ideas of "great game design" are set firmly by the first game they enjoyed playing, and then never change?

    It's true, not strange....;)   And games aren't the only place this happens.  It's a familiar concept among woodwind and brass players, where it is termed 'home instrument bias'.     What is strange is that folks don't figure it out themselves.  'Your preferred playing style' is a completely legit idea.   Especially as opposed to the 'One True Way!' cliche.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • paulythebpaulytheb Wauwatosa, WIPosts: 261Member Uncommon

    I don't want punishing death. I want meaningful death penalties. I want to be scared of dieing in the wrong spot. I would like something more realistic than a respawn and a few coins for repairs.

    I think that the idea of dying alone off in some cave should carry some penalty. I like the idea the one guy had early in this post.

    If you die you must pray to your diety for deliverance.How punative that deliverance might be would depend on your chosen diety.Praying to that diety should be a last resort.  You should want to try to get friends to help you first.

    If you cannot get any help,and no one can get to you to rescue you.Then you are at the last resort, plead to the gods for help.

    I think injuries could be added in, in this situation.

    You pray to  Mithaniel Marr, it takes a while (5 minutes) for your prayer to be answered. The agent of the god comes before you and demands an offering (random item or gold lost). You will then be resurrected at Mithaniel Marr's temple, but with an injury. This injury could be minor or major, and the effects would be temporary. If you die while under the effect of a minor injury you would certainly earn a major injury.A minor injury would reduce your effectiveness for a short period (2 hours)  and a major injury could last up to a week.Your character may also have to perform a service(quest for an offering) for the god that resurrected you before that deity would help you again.

    As long as there are systems in place for an injured character to do ( crafting + other sandboxy stuff) it wouldn't be too much.The character might be able to get healing for the injury in the form of another quest.

    I don't believe that a character should be able to just jump up after the resurrection and run right back into the cave and try again.

    ( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)

    An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    @paulytheb

    I'd like that system if and only if the combat system was really, really well polished and relied more on my skill as a player than RPG stats.

    And the network/server stability and performance was AAA.

     

  • paulythebpaulytheb Wauwatosa, WIPosts: 261Member Uncommon

    Yes Badspock,

    The systems in the game would have to support the death penalty.

    There would also have to be protections for groups. I wouldn't want all group members flung to the far reaches of the world in different temples because of a wipe.

    Groups could simply be favored by the gods, dungeon instances could allow for full group recovery in case of a wipe.(Injuries earned would not take effect until you leave the instance) I'm not really sure if EQnext is going to have instanced dungeons, but I expect that would be the case.Groups also would likely have a healer that could mitigate some of the bad effects of dieing.It would be a nice bonus for healers to have a less harsh death experience.

    A balance must be made, from the ground up, while building the game to support a more meaningful death.

    ( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)

    An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.

  • ZuvielifyZuvielify Fremont, CAPosts: 168Member
    Originally posted by augustgrace

    Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death.  But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.  

    Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.  

    I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work.  These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions.  I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.

    This exactly...well, replace UO with EQ2, in my case

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by paulytheb

    Yes Badspock,

    The systems in the game would have to support the death penalty.

    There would also have to be protections for groups. I wouldn't want all group members flung to the far reaches of the world in different temples because of a wipe.

    Groups could simply be favored by the gods, dungeon instances could allow for full group recovery in case of a wipe.(Injuries earned would not take effect until you leave the instance) I'm not really sure if EQnext is going to have instanced dungeons, but I expect that would be the case.Groups also would likely have a healer that could mitigate some of the bad effects of dieing.It would be a nice bonus for healers to have a less harsh death experience.

    A balance must be made, from the ground up, while building the game to support a more meaningful death.

     It's a really hard balance to achieve.

    Make death sting too much, players will either leave or will seek content that is below them i.e. stack the deck in their favor instead of challenging themselves.

    Make it too easy and players will throw corpses at mobs/each other to kill them and/or get bored and leave.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by whiteoak21

    what are you thinking of punishing death?

    I like non-combat characters.

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Isn't it strange how ideas of "great game design" are set firmly by the first game they enjoyed playing, and then never change?

     

    I love Pizza, should I totally dislike it the next day?

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    another way we could keep the death penalty relevent but not overly punishing would be to split up your characters development into more "lines" . I like race/class/deity/other ingame choice.

    if your death penalty is only linked to your deity, and the deity element could be specced, you now have the power to minimize your death penalty if you wish ( if you think about it, it already only affects 1/4 of your character since theres no penalty for the other lines). Others might not want to though and choose another power. Perhaps a more hardcoreish player would choose the flamesword ability where another would choose the burning devotion (which directly reduces your losses in the deity line when you die).

    this is choice, and since it can be specced, we can tailor the penalty similar to how we spec our characters. Rather than adopting a full range permadeath-----------------no penalty  we tighten up the band a little but still retain a wide range of options.

    no one on this site can tell me that more options and more lore incorperated gameplay is a bad thing. There are so many ways to play with it and it inspires freedom.

    the exact same system can be used for pvp. Lots of options to protect your character from things like looting your body etc. Since you would need to have the appropiate "xp" in the deity line to use god powers it might also discourage zerg rushing.

     

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    At that point you might as well just put in a system where the player gets to choose between options like

    Larger/more severe death penalty - increased chance for rare item drop / bonus gold/XP

    Softer DP - "normal" rare loot % and no bonus gold/XP

     

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by whiteoak21

    I really want  EQnext to be like eq1 but better.

    I'm a big fan of punishing death in mmorpg and i really like when our body stayed on the ground.

     

    I'm big fan of NON punishing death. :-))

     

    Is NOT fun running half hour back to corpse or even waiting 10 mins after ressing in place or alike. Immagine now something more.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    At that point you might as well just put in a system where the player gets to choose between options like

    Larger/more severe death penalty - increased chance for rare item drop / bonus gold/XP

    Softer DP - "normal" rare loot % and no bonus gold/XP

     

    i could see some minor offensive abilities that slightly enhance your character, or more utility or protections for your character, but i wouldnt choose anything associated with loot or xp gain.

    i wouldnt be against the original everquest modifiers in the game though. Class and race have nothing to do with death penalty if you use a deity system, and you have to have some compensation for really bad night vision on humans.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    At that point you might as well just put in a system where the player gets to choose between options like

    Larger/more severe death penalty - increased chance for rare item drop / bonus gold/XP

    Softer DP - "normal" rare loot % and no bonus gold/XP

     

    Not a bad idea. Also let the users choose difficulties.

     

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    At that point you might as well just put in a system where the player gets to choose between options like

    Larger/more severe death penalty - increased chance for rare item drop / bonus gold/XP

    Softer DP - "normal" rare loot % and no bonus gold/XP

     

    Not a bad idea. Also let the users choose difficulties.

     

    I've been thinking of something similar as well but I am more interested in what you potentially gain by increasing risk. I'm a big proponent behind making everything interactive within a sandbox game. Even if the world is large and open I am ok with perhaps a tiered pvp system where the player chooses how much risk and access to pvp systems they can have. If this is truly a sandbox then I would like to see a political system and the degree of risk directly reflects the level you can delve into it.

    The issue I see with a balls out or nothing system is that you minimize potential pvp. Offering a pvp-light sytem as well puts more "reds" into play overall.

    You stay sassy!

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Letting the players choose the penalty will result in the path of least resistance like it always does, and take away from the world feel.
  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Letting the players choose the penalty will result in the path of least resistance like it always does, and take away from the world feel.

    But would make op happy and this also count. :-)

  • stefanakisgrstefanakisgr SerresPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by augustgrace

    Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death.  But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.  

    Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.  

    I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work.  These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions.  I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.

     

    My thoughts exactly . Back in the day even a 5 hour corpse run/recovery didnt feel like a chore . These days , not so much . Maybe some games should consider a hardcore rules server or 2 . Maybe if I lost my job I would try it :)

  • stefanakisgrstefanakisgr SerresPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Letting the players choose the penalty will result in the path of least resistance like it always does, and take away from the world feel.

    Not if its a risk/difficulty vs reward system . Some people like taking chances for a better reward . Because then its not just resistance , its a different game . Balance is the key here , if the reward is worth the hassle , without breaking the game , I think this might work . 

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    The thing is with EQ next is that It's still in development and what do we get on these boards with this thread, people are allready asking for easymode, with EQnext we have an opportunity to get back to oldschool feeling again.

    And one more question is it forbidden for the likes of me to play other MMOs that is not labled hardcore while waiting for a game that's hopefully going back to oldschool?

    You keep bringing that shit up over and over and really I don't se the logic behind that, It's like I'm eating a Taco Bell 6 times a week and Mc Donalds 1 times a week and suddenly I'm a Mc Donald Fanboiimage

    The fact is, while EQ had some interesting aspects that haven't been repeated in any MMO since, it also has a lot of really horriblle aspects that should never be repeated in any MMO. Simply asking for an EQ clone is looking at EQ with rose colored glasses.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    yes harsh dealth penalty is a must.. i would like it to be full loot but we will have to wait and see.

     

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Caldrin

    yes harsh dealth penalty is a must.. i would like it to be full loot but we will have to wait and see.

     

    You will be waiting for the rest of your life lol. Seems to me that the PVP fanatics are looking at EQNext to be their sandbox PVP savoir, it aint going to happen. EQNext will have a updated  PVP system but make no mistake that the EQ franchise is PVE first and formost.

    EQ has so much PVE lore and content that it far outshines any PVP.

    image
  • centkincentkin Asbury, NJPosts: 944Member Uncommon

    Losing exp -- ok so long as it is not over 2 hours of grind for a single death.

    Delevel -- fine.

    Corpse Runs -- Only if Daoc or EQ2 as it released style(soul shards).  I do not want to have to have secondary sets of equipment banked and have to run naked to a corpse if I die twice or have to hire people to try to get my corpse.  Or worse lose it entirely.  That is the way out of a raid guild -- oops you lost all of your raid equipment and now you are back to tier 1 -- cya.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Letting the players choose the penalty will result in the path of least resistance like it always does, and take away from the world feel.

     This is why you have to be careful how you structure your options. IMO you cant touch stuff like drop rates and exp. You need to focus on minor combat abilities on one side to give the edge versus protections, utility and loss reductions on the other side.

    most people would fall into the middle somewhere but the option to slightly modify it would be there, which is always better than no options.

    the other thing it does is to blend the rules slightly so while you hate "X rule", a slightly broader ruleset with choices might be less offensive to you because it will likely have some configuration you like.

    That will lead to more players "not being adamantly opposed"

     

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Vineland, NJPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by centkin

    Losing exp -- ok so long as it is not over 2 hours of grind for a single death.

    Should be at higher lvls. perhaps days depending on how you play. there should be a "fear" of dieing in these mmos.

    Delevel -- fine.

    You shouldnt get deleveled. If you die you should encur exp loss as a negeitve.

    Corpse Runs -- Only if Daoc or EQ2 as it released style(soul shards).  I do not want to have to have secondary sets of equipment banked and have to run naked to a corpse if I die twice or have to hire people to try to get my corpse.  Or worse lose it entirely.  That is the way out of a raid guild -- oops you lost all of your raid equipment and now you are back to tier 1 -- cya.

    Iv never heard of anyone being kicked from a rading guild for gear loss. Corps runs, imo, are a must. an added lvl of emersion to the game.

    image

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