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Thiefs ruin PvP/WvW for every other class ....

124

Comments

  • spizzspizz BlackForrestPosts: 2,587Member

    The whole pvp is a mess in GW2 not only the Thief class is unbalanced, actually try a high toughness thief with sword & dagger and see how you are doing. GW2 is for sure one of the mmos I plyed when it comes to pvp with big issues in general, its rediculous in its current state and you dont wonder that actually player and official forum activities drop. Those who did play more pve and changing to more frequent pvp  matches and not just wvw zerg, wake up slowly.

    * massive class bugs and bugs which influence pvp

    * huge problems to fine tune classes due to "we can have loads of builds with one class", you cant just cut down skills of offensive classs without crippling the same build with just higher toughness and vitality. How they want to fine tune when everything influence offensive but also defensive class builds.

    * toughness vs burst is more or less out of hand except exceptional cases i.e. Guardians.

    * NONE-Fotm classes suffer even more in the current toughness/dmg balance, but those are almost not played. Some players think all is fine but have not even played at least the two options for every class: defensive & offensive, which is again only a small part of most build possibilities. A thief is not a thief or a class is not a class, many builds out there to play around with and to see the ingame "balance".

    Do you really think the offensive thief class is the only problem in pvp...its just one issue before the next stop.

     

    Honestly, the game is fun but its current pvp just sucks and need massive improvement. So far its a flop. If this game would be based on subscriptions it would fall like a stone.

    And some rate this game a 9 or 10....donno what to say.

  • negativf4kknegativf4kk WorthingPosts: 377Member Uncommon

    Oh MMO player is never happy. NERF NERF NERF. Nerf ranged cause they range attack, nerf melee cause they melee, nerf everyone and everything.

    L2P and no nerf is needed.

    <a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/499105419258.jpg"; border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Thieves

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  • Masa1Masa1 LapuaPosts: 318Member Uncommon
    If I could get devs to grant me a single wish, it would be: "Nerf thieves".
  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by negativf4kk

    Oh MMO player is never happy. NERF NERF NERF. Nerf ranged cause they range attack, nerf melee cause they melee, nerf everyone and everything.

    L2P and no nerf is needed.

    +1 here. People complained about Saboteurs in Rift, at the beginning being OP, although rather than learn how to snare and kill the Sabs, people whined until they got nerfed into oblivion.

     

    A.Net will tweak things, but not in the way people will want and that is because they are looking at the actual data from the server battles and not complaints form whiners.

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    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by negativf4kk

    Oh MMO player is never happy. NERF NERF NERF.

    It's always popular to conclude that devs can't reach the same conclusions independently.

    Fortunately, they have access to actual data.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    Anytime anyone cries "OP!" I ask them to perform one simple check.  Play the class/character/champion/whatever that you think is OP and try to faceroll players using what you believe to be the OP tactics.  Almost inevitably, you will find players countering your moves very effectively.  Then stop and consider the tactics they used to counter you.  Practice those tactics, learn from this experience, and become a better player.  You're never going to improve if you don't first look to see what you could have done better yourself.  

    Characters occasionally need to be retuned a little, but they are almost never as broken as those who claim they are OP say they are.  

  • UkiahUkiah Austin, TXPosts: 273Member
    Originally posted by Pivotelite

    Thief ruins PvP in GW2, I have to agree, especially with rendering.

     

    I've watched a thief stop a zerg of 20 people from capturing a supply camp for 5 minutes until the people he told to come kill them came and killed them.

     

    Cloak and dagger + broken rendering = permanently invisible.

     

    Hot join 8v8 on my server? Usually 6+ of the 16 players are glass cannon thiefs and while you're fighting people you just get steal+cloak and dagger+backstab combo'd by an invisible enemy in 0.5second for 12k HP and drop to the ground.

    I agree. By default, Thieves themselves aren't really OP. It's the rendering issue. It's already a problem in WvWvW for NON stealthing classes. 

  • negativf4kknegativf4kk WorthingPosts: 377Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by negativf4kk

    Oh MMO player is never happy. NERF NERF NERF. Nerf ranged cause they range attack, nerf melee cause they melee, nerf everyone and everything.

    L2P and no nerf is needed.

    +1 here. People complained about Saboteurs in Rift, at the beginning being OP, although rather than learn how to snare and kill the Sabs, people whined until they got nerfed into oblivion.

     

    A.Net will tweak things, but not in the way people will want and that is because they are looking at the actual data from the server battles and not complaints form whiners.

    Aion had Spirit Masters. Swtor had Scoundrels. Point is- all games had and will have pvp class that have slight advantage. And at the end nerf to the point of unplayabulity. Problem with GW2 is that u dont nessesary have to lvl your char to pvp. On positive note Anet doesnt pay to much attention to the nood cries.

     

    <a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/499105419258.jpg"; border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wireyankee

    You can always tell what classes are op in MMO's

    1. Highest population

    2. Most QQ on the forums against said class

    3.  Epic tears from the masses who play op class when a nerf is called for.

    I always notice that too.  :D  It crops up in every MMO I've ever played.

  • wrightstufwrightstuf Carlsbad, CAPosts: 655Member Uncommon
    a "thief" pluralized (more than one) is "thieves," not "thiefs"
  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    As a cloth wearer, I admit I dont like thieves at all.  But they arent OP nor do they ruin WvW.  If a thief is caught with low initiative, or is over extended, they are dropped easily.  I suggest practicing your response to a thief's opening salvo.  Many thieves thrive on people panicing when they appear and take out a significant portion of your health pool quickly.   Measuring your response afterwards will put many thieves in an uncomfortable position.   They will blow all thier CD's in order to regain the initiative.

    One tip i can share is to assign a hot key to your "about face" command.  Use it so they cant land cloak and dagger and other abilities.

    People always complain about thieves/rogues in every MMO, it's the same people who dont take the time to learn thier class and overcome what the thief brings to the table.  Cry more.

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  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    Found this video....

    Cant wait to hear the reactions to this.

    http://vimeo.com/52977465

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  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Shatter30

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

     

    There u go

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  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by Shatter30

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

     

    There u go

    image

    LOL......

    binding your keys to your toaster and your cat is pretty pro.

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  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Maephisto

    Found this video....

    Cant wait to hear the reactions to this.

    http://vimeo.com/52977465

    Yes - precisely this.

    Anyone who can watch this and claim Thieves are 'fine' is one of two things - neither of which I need to spell out for anyone with an IQ of more than 90.

  • Kuro1nKuro1n GothenburgPosts: 771Member
    Originally posted by Maephisto

    Found this video....

    Cant wait to hear the reactions to this.

    http://vimeo.com/52977465

    Yes but that thief wont do much damage, I checked his traits out and its all there in order to do that 'perma' stealth. If an enemy walks into his field his stealth will break with revealed buff also as its really hard to avoid them with HS. I think the CnD perma is better in that case if you are skilled enough to time it well.

    On the other hand I can't wait to see if warriors also get nerfed since they have same high damage thiefs do:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX6VrSvyuHg

    Generally it's more a global problem right now with quickness that makes the damage insanely fast on a few classes. 100 blades is the same as PW before the nerf.

     

    The only thing another thief nerf will do is bring the masses to sd perma daze spam. If the thieves gets too nerfed and they hurt my current build (not cookiecutter backstab) I'll probably reroll to a warrior, more damage and less QQers. :>

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member

    Pfft 100b... dual axe whirling axe ftw (not rooted).


    Anyways my thief is boring to play but when I play it I use pistol/pistol, more challenging than heartseeker-deathblossom-CnD spam. Everyone saw the pistol whip nerf coming from a million miles away, and backstab was getting abused to oblivion that it was obvious.

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  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member


    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Oh also you can't steath as often as you want with a theif, their stealth is their heal skill and subject to the same cooldowns.
    Technically you can't but with the game's renderring/culling issue, thieves can appear stealth permanently if they cycle stealth.

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  • LadyEupheiLadyEuphei Indianapolis, INPosts: 223Member
    IS it weird to anyone else that the only people that ever defend the class in question of being OP are the people that play said OP class. Strange that everyone else thinks they are OP but they themselves do not. Must be a fluke.

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  • timeraidertimeraider BredaPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LadyEuphei
    IS it weird to anyone else that the only people that ever defend the class in question of being OP are the people that play said OP class. Strange that everyone else thinks they are OP but they themselves do not. Must be a fluke.

    Thief is not OP

    Sincerly greetings,

    - Elementalist

    Main games: Heroes of the Storm, Starcraft 2, Brawlhalla
    Waiting for: Overwatch

  • Lazarus71Lazarus71 Celina, OHPosts: 1,025Member Uncommon

      I have a lvl 50 thief and I honestly can't say wether they are OP in PVP or not seeing as I have only taken him into PVP for about 10 minutes in that whole time. I only PVE with my thief and I can say I don't use stealth at all. I run daggers/shortbow exclusively and might be stealthed five percent of the total time I have played him and that's probably high. I will say though that the one time I did go into PVP i was getting almost instakilled by a stealth Thief so I am sure there is something to what the OP and others are saying.

    Leave it to me to randomly pick a class and play it as my main and it be the class everyone is bitching about lol.

    No signature, I don't have a pen

  • blastermasterblastermaster Cap-aux-Meules, QCPosts: 149Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LadyEuphei
    IS it weird to anyone else that the only people that ever defend the class in question of being OP are the people that play said OP class. Strange that everyone else thinks they are OP but they themselves do not. Must be a fluke.

    Well, I don't think it's that weird actually.

    If most people who say a class is OP would actually try to play the class before they said it's OP, I'm pretty sure we would see less of these post saying how " <insert any class> is OP once they realize that they have the good and bad sides as much as any other classes...

    One could say that pretty much any class has it's OP moments  (depending on build/situations,etc.).. I just think that thieves are the black sheep of the family (always been..) because of the stealth mechanic.. people feel it's "cheap" and rage because of it (especially when combined with any form of backstab), but we have to keep in mind that stealth is a thief's main form of defense. After all they are a melee class, yet don't have durability.. so they need ways to come in and out without getting too much attention.  

    --

    For the record, I don't think that "Thiefs ruin PvP/WvW for every other class..." as stated by the OP. (is'nt that the mesmer's job?! hehe j/k!  ;)

    I'm not saying thieves should'nt be looked into, they have their issues and also need some tweaks (FoTM is always a good indication of some kind of problem with a specific class/build), but I hope ANet sticks to their own agenda (based on actual data) and not on all the whinning that goes on forums, because if they react based on this kind of feedback, once thieves are done, you can be sure they will end up doing the same to any class.. The "never ending nerf cycle" (remember DAoC) !

     

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SPosts: 1,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by timeraider
    Originally posted by LadyEuphei
    IS it weird to anyone else that the only people that ever defend the class in question of being OP are the people that play said OP class. Strange that everyone else thinks they are OP but they themselves do not. Must be a fluke.

    Thief is not OP

    Sincerly greetings,

    - Elementalist

    its not op but with several bug exploits used on that class they will fix and nerf things get used to it

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
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  • hockeyplayrhockeyplayr Middlesex, NJPosts: 604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Warhammer didn't have rogues

    It had witch hunters and witch elves neither of which were op.

    Now "mages" where op when backed by a buffing tank.

    With gw2 freeze is your weapon vs theifs, various necro skills, ranger frost trap etc..

    so off topic but witch hunter was such a fun class to play

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