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Quarterly raport from NCSoft

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  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    To those pretending Blade and Soul does better than GW2, you're comparing a sub based game during 3 months with a B2P game released since only one month. Apples and Oranges. But considering who posted such comparisons, the misinformation is not surprising.

    Sorry bro you can not have it both ways. As long as it suits the fans and make GW2 look more successful it is comapred regularly to games like Rift, Swtor, Tera etc.

    But it can not be compared to Blade and Soul? well because in this case numbers don't look impressive. Yeah allrighty then lol

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,028Member Uncommon

    Uhm, how did they count?

    Do NC Soft count in 100% of GW2s earning, or are ANETs cut taken away first? Because with the number of known sales (about 2,5 million copies) and the earnings (42 million bucks) they only earned 10 bucks on each copy and that seems pretty low to me. Sure, the stores will get their share of any physical copy but that would be half of the $60 price, and many copies were sold directly from ANET. Add the gems that at least got in some money and the numbers seems odd to me.

    If ANET on the other hand take half of the cut it would make more sense, $20 per case is far more likely.

     

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    To those pretending Blade and Soul does better than GW2, you're comparing a sub based game during 3 months with a B2P game released since only one month. Apples and Oranges. But considering who posted such comparisons, the misinformation is not surprising.

    Sorry bro you can not have it both ways. As long as it suits the fans and make GW2 look more successful it is comapred regularly to games like Rift, Swtor, Tera etc.

    But it can not be compared to Blade and Soul? well because in this case numbers don't look impressive. Yeah allrighty then lol

    It those comparing absolute figures of two entirely different games - with largely different availability (3 months/1 month) and payment profile (sales & subs/pre-sales).

    Comparing the two and drawing any conclusions is entirely illogical at this point - the aggregate Q3/Q4 figures will be far more indicative.

    Now - the figures at that point may support your game bashing opinion, or it may more support those who love the game.

    But please don't obfuscate the issue - Korrigan was right to say it's an apples and oranges situation, and you crying 'bias' is actually a classic case of projection, not the insightful criticism you pass it off as.

    Wait for Q4 and then crow if you are correct. Even better - you should 'eat crow' if you are wrong - but whatever - at least call it when it can credibly be called and not before.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    To those pretending Blade and Soul does better than GW2, you're comparing a sub based game during 3 months with a B2P game released since only one month. Apples and Oranges. But considering who posted such comparisons, the misinformation is not surprising.

    Sorry bro you can not have it both ways. As long as it suits the fans and make GW2 look more successful it is comapred regularly to games like Rift, Swtor, Tera etc.

    But it can not be compared to Blade and Soul? well because in this case numbers don't look impressive. Yeah allrighty then lol

    It those comparing absolute figures of two entirely different games - with largely different availability (3 months/1 month) and payment profile (sales & subs/pre-sales).

    Comparing the two and drawing any conclusions is entirely illogical at this point - the aggregate Q3/Q4 figures will be far more indicative.

    Now - the figures at that point may support your game bashing opinion, or it may more support those who love the game.

    But please don't obfuscate the issue - Korrigan was right to say it's an apples and oranges situation, and you crying 'bias' is actually a classic case of projection, not the insightful criticism you pass it off as.

    Wait for Q4 and then crow if you are correct. Even better - you should 'eat crow' if you are wrong - but whatever - at least call it when it can credibly be called and not before.

    It is not about whther he is wrong or right but how things are twisted by fans to suit their own agenda.

    If you read my post again i am not supporting the comparison but simply highlighting the hypocricy when GW2 has been compared to Rift, SWTOR, Tera and other themepark MMO in sales, retention and over all success.

    I was never in favor of such comparisons doesn't mean i can't point out the obvious double standards.

    If numbers were impressive regardless of when and where Blade and Soul was released, i doubt he would even bother to make a post.

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
     

    It those comparing absolute figures of two entirely different games - with largely different availability (3 months/1 month) and payment profile (sales & subs/pre-sales).

    Comparing the two and drawing any conclusions is entirely illogical at this point - the aggregate Q3/Q4 figures will be far more indicative.

    Now - the figures at that point may support your game bashing opinion, or it may more support those who love the game.

    But please don't obfuscate the issue - Korrigan was right to say it's an apples and oranges situation, and you crying 'bias' is actually a classic case of projection, not the insightful criticism you pass it off as.

    Wait for Q4 and then crow if you are correct. Even better - you should 'eat crow' if you are wrong - but whatever - at least call it when it can credibly be called and not before.

    Why would he eat a crow? not like he is supporting the comparisons here? he is simply pointing out the double standard and yes GW2 has always been compared to all the recent themepark releases regardless of their release date and GW2 fans have tried their best to put those games down with constant chest beating.

    So when suddenly GW2 numbers don't look impressive the comparisons are forbidden well because suddenly logic, prudence and reasonable thinking has entered the room which was somehow missing for all this time.

    Only because someone is pointing out the hypocricy and irony of posts like theese doesn't mean they support the idea.

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    To those pretending Blade and Soul does better than GW2, you're comparing a sub based game during 3 months with a B2P game released since only one month. Apples and Oranges. But considering who posted such comparisons, the misinformation is not surprising.

    Sorry bro you can not have it both ways. As long as it suits the fans and make GW2 look more successful it is comapred regularly to games like Rift, Swtor, Tera etc.

    But it can not be compared to Blade and Soul? well because in this case numbers don't look impressive. Yeah allrighty then lol

    It those comparing absolute figures of two entirely different games - with largely different availability (3 months/1 month) and payment profile (sales & subs/pre-sales).

    Comparing the two and drawing any conclusions is entirely illogical at this point - the aggregate Q3/Q4 figures will be far more indicative.

    Now - the figures at that point may support your game bashing opinion, or it may more support those who love the game.

    But please don't obfuscate the issue - Korrigan was right to say it's an apples and oranges situation, and you crying 'bias' is actually a classic case of projection, not the insightful criticism you pass it off as.

    Wait for Q4 and then crow if you are correct. Even better - you should 'eat crow' if you are wrong - but whatever - at least call it when it can credibly be called and not before.

    It is not about whther he is wrong or right but how things are twisted by fans to suit their own agenda.

    If you read my post again i am not supporting the comparison but simply highlighting the hypocricy when GW2 has been compared to Rift, SWTOR, Tera and other themepark MMO in sales, retention and over all success.

    I was never in favor of such comparisons doesn't mean i can't point out the obvious double standards.

    If numbers were impressive regardless of when and where Blade and Soul was released, i doubt he would even bother to make a post.

    Seems to me that some fans who have been stating that GW2 is leading are now in denial. NCSoft have released the info and it does not lie, fact is it's from the horse mouth.

    Obssesion leads people to not see the glaring truth that GW2 is an okay game but no where near the titan they believe it to be. I say to these people, go play your game and stop  wishing that GW2 would be king because it's never going to happen.

    image
  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    To those pretending Blade and Soul does better than GW2, you're comparing a sub based game during 3 months with a B2P game released since only one month. Apples and Oranges. But considering who posted such comparisons, the misinformation is not surprising.

    Sorry bro you can not have it both ways. As long as it suits the fans and make GW2 look more successful it is comapred regularly to games like Rift, Swtor, Tera etc.

    But it can not be compared to Blade and Soul? well because in this case numbers don't look impressive. Yeah allrighty then lol

    It those comparing absolute figures of two entirely different games - with largely different availability (3 months/1 month) and payment profile (sales & subs/pre-sales).

    Comparing the two and drawing any conclusions is entirely illogical at this point - the aggregate Q3/Q4 figures will be far more indicative.

    Now - the figures at that point may support your game bashing opinion, or it may more support those who love the game.

    But please don't obfuscate the issue - Korrigan was right to say it's an apples and oranges situation, and you crying 'bias' is actually a classic case of projection, not the insightful criticism you pass it off as.

    Wait for Q4 and then crow if you are correct. Even better - you should 'eat crow' if you are wrong - but whatever - at least call it when it can credibly be called and not before.

    It is not about whther he is wrong or right but how things are twisted by fans to suit their own agenda.

    If you read my post again i am not supporting the comparison but simply highlighting the hypocricy when GW2 has been compared to Rift, SWTOR, Tera and other themepark MMO in sales, retention and over all success.

    I was never in favor of such comparisons doesn't mean i can't point out the obvious double standards.

    If numbers were impressive regardless of when and where Blade and Soul was released, i doubt he would even bother to make a post.

    Seems to me that some fans who have been stating that GW2 is leading are now in denial. NCSoft have released the info and it does not lie, fact is it's from the horse mouth.

    Obssesion leads people to not see the glaring truth that GW2 is an okay game but no where near the titan they believe it to be. I say to these people, go play your game and stop  wishing that GW2 would be king because it's never going to happen.

    Interesting...very interesting.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    Not much you can make from that number tbh.
    Its all speculation and no proof on how its calculated.

    Arenanet cut's taken off when presenting NCsoft share ?
    Does this all copy's sold including Digital sales directly from Anet's website ?
    Does it include all the gems and ingame shop sales ?

    I cannot believe that, these numbers aint right.
    45 million isnt presenting the 100% 2/ 2.5 million box sales so how and what or wich share was taken into account when presenting this qaurter :P ?

    Love these haters inhere already saying TOLD YOU BTP FAILZZZ GW2 FAILZ LOLOLOLZ.

    2.5 mil x 60 = 150 mil
    Argh it doesnt make sence at all -_-

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member

    The only important thing is that this only concerns one month of GW2 post release. No comparison is possible for now. Not to mention digital sales where blocked for like 2 weeks to ensure server stability. The 4th quarter numbers will be way more indicative and interesting, for now, this is just fodder for people who like to twist numbers, nothing more.

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Interesting...very interesting.

    Yeah, they talk about "hypocrisy", tell us to "go play our game", and then they come daily post on the forum of a game they dislike/hate, often belittling or even insulting its players in the process...

    As you said, interesting.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    I miss Lineage 1, NCSoft should have turned L1 into F2P in US before shutting down US serves. The only thing I can do now is waiting for Lineage Eternal(L1 sequel).
  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member

    People talk about hypocricy because you guys seem to be oblivious to it. I am still playing GW2 but that doesn't mean i have to like the fanbase too. 

    GW2 gets a lot of flak not because it is a bad game but because of its defensive fans. So yeah 'interesting' indeed that somehow disliking the fan base automatically translates to hating 'GW2'. Sorry but all of you ain't that special. ;)

  • saurus123saurus123 nonePosts: 570Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Looks like Blade & Soul is doing better than GW2, considering that it's only available in Korea.

    and you know that korea have way more gamers playing mmos than Europe and US together? :P

     

    would like to see data when gw2 come out in korea

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Uhm, how did they count?

    Do NC Soft count in 100% of GW2s earning, or are ANETs cut taken away first? Because with the number of known sales (about 2,5 million copies) and the earnings (42 million bucks) they only earned 10 bucks on each copy and that seems pretty low to me. Sure, the stores will get their share of any physical copy but that would be half of the $60 price, and many copies were sold directly from ANET. Add the gems that at least got in some money and the numbers seems odd to me.

    If ANET on the other hand take half of the cut it would make more sense, $20 per case is far more likely.

     

    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Not much you can make from that number tbh.
    Its all speculation and no proof on how its calculated.

    Arenanet cut's taken off when presenting NCsoft share ?
    Does this all copy's sold including Digital sales directly from Anet's website ?
    Does it include all the gems and ingame shop sales ?

    I cannot believe that, these numbers aint right.
    45 million isnt presenting the 100% 2/ 2.5 million box sales so how and what or wich share was taken into account when presenting this qaurter :P ?

    Love these haters inhere already saying TOLD YOU BTP FAILZZZ GW2 FAILZ LOLOLOLZ.

    2.5 mil x 60 = 150 mil
    Argh it doesnt make sence at all -_-

     

    OK this is what it says in blue at the top of the report, I'll highlight the relevant part, this is gross sales numbers not profit but income and companies do not get $60 a sale unless its from their own digital store, GW2 was also available digitally from resellers so that has to be taken into account with also Cash Shop sales but the 2 million sales number could be right on these figures but that is highly dependent on how much money is made from the CS. The quarter 4 (Oct, Nov, Dec) report will be verey interesting to see if there was sustained sales and how well the cash shop is doing.

     

    Consolidated Sales Breakdown by Game (Excluding Royalties)
    NCSOFT Corp. & Subsidiaries
    (January 2012~ September 2012)

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  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,553Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     

     The quarter 4 (Oct, Nov, Dec) report will be verey interesting to see if there was sustained sales and how well the cash shop is doing.

     

    The rumor on the street is that GW2 underperformed, it didn't do terribly but it didn't hit NCSofts target figures. As you said the next quarter is going to be more telling, and I don't see it changing much for the better. Again take this with a grain of salt, but Austin is a very small city and there are lots of former NCSofters around.

    It's a shame because GW2 is a AAA game that is deserving of better sales, Anet has done their job, it sucks when the product doesn't sell as well as it should.

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    Aion doesn't surprise me much though, people seem to dismiss it but its HUGE over in asia.

    They're the only type of gamers who love MASSIVE grind and shallow play.

  • MahavishnuMahavishnu BerlinPosts: 336Member
    If this numbers are true, I would say, this is not enough.

    Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,553Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dibdabs
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    Aion doesn't surprise me much though, people seem to dismiss it but its HUGE over in asia.

    They're the only type of gamers who love MASSIVE grind and shallow play.

    I must be Asian lol, as I enjoyed Aion a lot. Have nothing but fond memories of that game, it was awesome for me.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    To those pretending Blade and Soul does better than GW2, you're comparing a sub based game during 3 months with a B2P game released since only one month. Apples and Oranges. But considering who posted such comparisons, the misinformation is not surprising.

    Massively.com made the comparison... Are accusing massively of misinformation too?

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Originally posted by Mahavishnu
    If this numbers are true, I would say, this is not enough.

    2~ million sales for the first month isn't enough for what exactly?

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by fenistil

    Results for next quarter - Q4 should not be lesser than Q3 ones.  I think at least some retailers might pay Ncsoft it 'cut' after certain amount of time or copies sold and this revenue may show in Q4.    Still those revenues does seem bit small for such huge 'loud' release.

    Further revenues though may rely on cash shop revenue stronger than many of GW2 fans might think, even counting that there will be paid expansions in future.

    I wonder what NCSoft's & Arena net revenue targets for GW2 were and are and if they are meet. Cause that will decide future pricing of expansions,  shape and size of cash shop and dev & support team.  

    I can't imagine that earnings wouldn't be lower next quarter UNLESS (I wanted to highlight that part) they are not reporting a large chunk of their box sales, and by large I mean really large (approaching 40%).  If this is truly based on all the sales they had through the end of September, then I would expect next quarter at between half and 60% of this quarters revenue and/or profit.  If they have included all of their boxes sold through september in this report and aren't carrying any forward, that would mean that the vast majority of their revenues and profits for the game in next quarters results will be from the cash shop.  Unfortunately, I don't think they will ever break it down like this in a public way that we can see.  We will instead see another generic chart like this one and we will be arguing over how many boxes were sold vs. how much in gems were sold.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by fenistil

    Results for next quarter - Q4 should not be lesser than Q3 ones.  I think at least some retailers might pay Ncsoft it 'cut' after certain amount of time or copies sold and this revenue may show in Q4.    Still those revenues does seem bit small for such huge 'loud' release.

    Further revenues though may rely on cash shop revenue stronger than many of GW2 fans might think, even counting that there will be paid expansions in future.

    I wonder what NCSoft's & Arena net revenue targets for GW2 were and are and if they are meet. Cause that will decide future pricing of expansions,  shape and size of cash shop and dev & support team.  

    I can't imagine that earnings wouldn't be lower next quarter UNLESS (I wanted to highlight that part) they are not reporting a large chunk of their box sales, and by large I mean really large (approaching 40%).  If this is truly based on all the sales they had through the end of September, then I would expect next quarter at between half and 60% of this quarters revenue and/or profit.  If they have included all of their boxes sold through september in this report and aren't carrying any forward, that would mean that the vast majority of their revenues and profits for the game in next quarters results will be from the cash shop.  Unfortunately, I don't think they will ever break it down like this in a public way that we can see.  We will instead see another generic chart like this one and we will be arguing over how many boxes were sold vs. how much in gems were sold.

     

    Ncsoft are a public company they have to put out their full report, there will be some proper analysis in the coming months so I'd stay tuned.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by fenistil

    Results for next quarter - Q4 should not be lesser than Q3 ones.  I think at least some retailers might pay Ncsoft it 'cut' after certain amount of time or copies sold and this revenue may show in Q4.    Still those revenues does seem bit small for such huge 'loud' release.

    Further revenues though may rely on cash shop revenue stronger than many of GW2 fans might think, even counting that there will be paid expansions in future.

    I wonder what NCSoft's & Arena net revenue targets for GW2 were and are and if they are meet. Cause that will decide future pricing of expansions,  shape and size of cash shop and dev & support team.  

    I can't imagine that earnings wouldn't be lower next quarter UNLESS (I wanted to highlight that part) they are not reporting a large chunk of their box sales, and by large I mean really large (approaching 40%).  If this is truly based on all the sales they had through the end of September, then I would expect next quarter at between half and 60% of this quarters revenue and/or profit.  If they have included all of their boxes sold through september in this report and aren't carrying any forward, that would mean that the vast majority of their revenues and profits for the game in next quarters results will be from the cash shop.  Unfortunately, I don't think they will ever break it down like this in a public way that we can see.  We will instead see another generic chart like this one and we will be arguing over how many boxes were sold vs. how much in gems were sold.

    The entire report and be DL'd here. If your good with numbers and money definition you might be able to get what you need.

     

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Looks like Blade & Soul is doing better than GW2, considering that it's only available in Korea.

     

    How is that?    GW2 sold more units...    It make 10 billion more KRW...

     

     

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Looks like Blade & Soul is doing better than GW2, considering that it's only available in Korea.

    How is that?    GW2 sold more units...    It make 10 billion more KRW...

    And GW2 did that in one single month of release without any subscriptions, while Blade and Soul was already launched during the whole three months and is sub based.

    Truth is, GW2 crushes Blade and Soul success wise. Big time.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • PrenhoPrenho AracajuPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Dibdabs
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    Aion doesn't surprise me much though, people seem to dismiss it but its HUGE over in asia.

    They're the only type of gamers who love MASSIVE grind and shallow play.

    I must be Asian lol, as I enjoyed Aion a lot. Have nothing but fond memories of that game, it was awesome for me.

    Me too, I like the Asian style, because they develop a true and active comunity, staying in a game for years, while western players just like to reach level cap in 3 days solo-mode like a single player game, after finishing the campaign, go to multiplyer arenas, just like CoD and BF multiplayer, enjoy these instances for 1 or 2 months and so move to next game to do the same stuff.

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