another way we could keep the death penalty relevent but not overly punishing would be to split up your characters development into more "lines" . I like race/class/deity/other ingame choice.
if your death penalty is only linked to your deity, and the deity element could be specced, you now have the power to minimize your death penalty if you wish ( if you think about it, it already only affects 1/4 of your character since theres no penalty for the other lines). Others might not want to though and choose another power. Perhaps a more hardcoreish player would choose the flamesword ability where another would choose the burning devotion (which directly reduces your losses in the deity line when you die).
this is choice, and since it can be specced, we can tailor the penalty similar to how we spec our characters. Rather than adopting a full range permadeath-----------------no penalty we tighten up the band a little but still retain a wide range of options.
no one on this site can tell me that more options and more lore incorperated gameplay is a bad thing. There are so many ways to play with it and it inspires freedom.
the exact same system can be used for pvp. Lots of options to protect your character from things like looting your body etc. Since you would need to have the appropiate "xp" in the deity line to use god powers it might also discourage zerg rushing.
At that point you might as well just put in a system where the player gets to choose between options like
Larger/more severe death penalty - increased chance for rare item drop / bonus gold/XP
Softer DP - "normal" rare loot % and no bonus gold/XP
i could see some minor offensive abilities that slightly enhance your character, or more utility or protections for your character, but i wouldnt choose anything associated with loot or xp gain.
i wouldnt be against the original everquest modifiers in the game though. Class and race have nothing to do with death penalty if you use a deity system, and you have to have some compensation for really bad night vision on humans.
At that point you might as well just put in a system where the player gets to choose between options like
Larger/more severe death penalty - increased chance for rare item drop / bonus gold/XP
Softer DP - "normal" rare loot % and no bonus gold/XP
Not a bad idea. Also let the users choose difficulties.
I've been thinking of something similar as well but I am more interested in what you potentially gain by increasing risk. I'm a big proponent behind making everything interactive within a sandbox game. Even if the world is large and open I am ok with perhaps a tiered pvp system where the player chooses how much risk and access to pvp systems they can have. If this is truly a sandbox then I would like to see a political system and the degree of risk directly reflects the level you can delve into it.
The issue I see with a balls out or nothing system is that you minimize potential pvp. Offering a pvp-light sytem as well puts more "reds" into play overall.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Letting the players choose the penalty will result in the path of least resistance like it always does, and take away from the world feel.
Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death. But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.
Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.
I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work. These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions. I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.
My thoughts exactly . Back in the day even a 5 hour corpse run/recovery didnt feel like a chore . These days , not so much . Maybe some games should consider a hardcore rules server or 2 . Maybe if I lost my job I would try it
Originally posted by DavisFlight Letting the players choose the penalty will result in the path of least resistance like it always does, and take away from the world feel.
Not if its a risk/difficulty vs reward system . Some people like taking chances for a better reward . Because then its not just resistance , its a different game . Balance is the key here , if the reward is worth the hassle , without breaking the game , I think this might work .
The thing is with EQ next is that It's still in development and what do we get on these boards with this thread, people are allready asking for easymode, with EQnext we have an opportunity to get back to oldschool feeling again.
And one more question is it forbidden for the likes of me to play other MMOs that is not labled hardcore while waiting for a game that's hopefully going back to oldschool?
You keep bringing that shit up over and over and really I don't se the logic behind that, It's like I'm eating a Taco Bell 6 times a week and Mc Donalds 1 times a week and suddenly I'm a Mc Donald Fanboi
The fact is, while EQ had some interesting aspects that haven't been repeated in any MMO since, it also has a lot of really horriblle aspects that should never be repeated in any MMO. Simply asking for an EQ clone is looking at EQ with rose colored glasses.
yes harsh dealth penalty is a must.. i would like it to be full loot but we will have to wait and see.
You will be waiting for the rest of your life lol. Seems to me that the PVP fanatics are looking at EQNext to be their sandbox PVP savoir, it aint going to happen. EQNext will have a updated PVP system but make no mistake that the EQ franchise is PVE first and formost.
EQ has so much PVE lore and content that it far outshines any PVP.
Losing exp -- ok so long as it is not over 2 hours of grind for a single death.
Delevel -- fine.
Corpse Runs -- Only if Daoc or EQ2 as it released style(soul shards). I do not want to have to have secondary sets of equipment banked and have to run naked to a corpse if I die twice or have to hire people to try to get my corpse. Or worse lose it entirely. That is the way out of a raid guild -- oops you lost all of your raid equipment and now you are back to tier 1 -- cya.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Letting the players choose the penalty will result in the path of least resistance like it always does, and take away from the world feel.
This is why you have to be careful how you structure your options. IMO you cant touch stuff like drop rates and exp. You need to focus on minor combat abilities on one side to give the edge versus protections, utility and loss reductions on the other side.
most people would fall into the middle somewhere but the option to slightly modify it would be there, which is always better than no options.
the other thing it does is to blend the rules slightly so while you hate "X rule", a slightly broader ruleset with choices might be less offensive to you because it will likely have some configuration you like.
That will lead to more players "not being adamantly opposed"
Losing exp -- ok so long as it is not over 2 hours of grind for a single death.
Should be at higher lvls. perhaps days depending on how you play. there should be a "fear" of dieing in these mmos.
Delevel -- fine.
You shouldnt get deleveled. If you die you should encur exp loss as a negeitve.
Corpse Runs -- Only if Daoc or EQ2 as it released style(soul shards). I do not want to have to have secondary sets of equipment banked and have to run naked to a corpse if I die twice or have to hire people to try to get my corpse. Or worse lose it entirely. That is the way out of a raid guild -- oops you lost all of your raid equipment and now you are back to tier 1 -- cya.
Iv never heard of anyone being kicked from a rading guild for gear loss. Corps runs, imo, are a must. an added lvl of emersion to the game.
The thing is with EQ next is that It's still in development and what do we get on these boards with this thread, people are allready asking for easymode, with EQnext we have an opportunity to get back to oldschool feeling again.
And one more question is it forbidden for the likes of me to play other MMOs that is not labled hardcore while waiting for a game that's hopefully going back to oldschool?
You keep bringing that shit up over and over and really I don't se the logic behind that, It's like I'm eating a Taco Bell 6 times a week and Mc Donalds 1 times a week and suddenly I'm a Mc Donald Fanboi
The fact is, while EQ had some interesting aspects that haven't been repeated in any MMO since, it also has a lot of really horriblle aspects that should never be repeated in any MMO. Simply asking for an EQ clone is looking at EQ with rose colored glasses.
Since I wear rose colored glasses.. what horrible aspects should never be repeated? Dealth Penalty that stings? Food and Drink requirement? Weight limitations? No pull up map? Mobs that chase you to the zone line? Combat that last longer then 5 seconds?..... OR.. would you be talking about issues like epic quest rewards from open world bosses that are fought over like shark bait? If you mean the later, then yes, those issues could be addressed wtih today's technology, WITHOUT inventing instancing.. The thing is.. EQ had much more going right, then wrong.. EQ cloned today with minor changes would be PERFECT to me..
I hate punisihing deaths when this mean full loot, because in my point of view they ruin your diversion and gives nothing in return, as a game`s objective is to entertain all the playerbase, and i don`t see how living in fear of dying amd loosing can be anything but a pain for the majority of the gamers(i now, theres a minority who loves this, but just that, A MINORITY). So i hope EQ NExt stays far as possible from full loot. Not implementing full loot in any form, nor parcial loot by the way, i think new forms of punishing death may be an intersting thing to explore.
I would truly love a game with "semi-permadeath", where your character dies but you continue insome way with his descendants. Or that "who nows what kind of underworld you may find yourself into when you die" kind of thing, that makes you experience that pain in the ass journey to get back to the living world and to your previous adventures.( should be a time consuming and extenuating thing, really hard, no just to say it`s there, but to be a chalenge).
I hate punisihing deaths when this mean full loot, because in my point of view they ruin your diversion and gives nothing in return, as a game`s objective is to entertain all the playerbase, and i don`t see how living in fear of dying amd loosing can be anything but a pain for the majority of the gamers(i now, theres a minority who loves this, but just that, A MINORITY). So i hope EQ NExt stays far as possible from full loot. Not implementing full loot in any form, nor parcial loot by the way, i think new forms of punishing death may be an intersting thing to explore.
I would truly love a game with "semi-permadeath", where your character dies but you continue insome way with his descendants. Or that "who nows what kind of underworld you may find yourself into when you die" kind of thing, that makes you experience that pain in the ass journey to get back to the living world and to your previous adventures.( should be a time consuming and extenuating thing, really hard, no just to say it`s there, but to be a chalenge).
i have my doubts that either permadeath or full loot is on the table because they have wizardry in their stable that has both of those.
Oh BTW.. for those that mention "full" loot death penalty.. I have no problem with that as long as that "server" is issolated just like full PvP servers are.. I always thought it would be interesting to have multiple servers with different options.. Some always said that WoW is too carebear and promotes Solo play.. I agree, it does.... BUT.. Why doesn't Blizzard give the players an options like "Heroic" server.. No easy peasy here.. Bring a friend or more.. Solo play is not suggested.. Instead of the server being 98% solo easy and 2% hard.. I would make it 25% soloable and 75% hard mode.. Make some tweaks in the game, wtih the previous mention and I might resub..
I think they have 2 set of server Hardcore death and softcore death, Hardcore will be similar to EQ1 was and softcore will be similar to current themepark games. I also expect in PvP server on HC you will be able to loot the money currently on the play you kill they may let you loot 1 item but doubt they will allow more than that. Of course like EQ1 you can bank your money.
I also expect encumbeance and money weight to be back in with EQnext maybe for both servers or just for the HC.
Originally posted by Rydeson Oh BTW.. for those that mention "full" loot death penalty.. I have no problem with that as long as that "server" is issolated just like full PvP servers are.. I always thought it would be interesting to have multiple servers with different options.. Some always said that WoW is too carebear and promotes Solo play.. I agree, it does.... BUT.. Why doesn't Blizzard give the players an options like "Heroic" server.. No easy peasy here.. Bring a friend or more.. Solo play is not suggested.. Instead of the server being 98% solo easy and 2% hard.. I would make it 25% soloable and 75% hard mode.. Make some tweaks in the game, wtih the previous mention and I might resub..
EQ1 was like the only game that had more than 2 server types instead of the typical PvP and PVE server they had PVE, PvP FFA, PvP teams Diety, PvP team race and later they brought out the Progressional server which progressed through all expansion.
Wouldnt surprise me if EQnext also has muiltpal server types aswell seeing SoE done it in the past and it seems there taking alot of thing from EQ1 for EQNext.
The thing is with EQ next is that It's still in development and what do we get on these boards with this thread, people are allready asking for easymode, with EQnext we have an opportunity to get back to oldschool feeling again.
And one more question is it forbidden for the likes of me to play other MMOs that is not labled hardcore while waiting for a game that's hopefully going back to oldschool?
You keep bringing that shit up over and over and really I don't se the logic behind that, It's like I'm eating a Taco Bell 6 times a week and Mc Donalds 1 times a week and suddenly I'm a Mc Donald Fanboi
The fact is, while EQ had some interesting aspects that haven't been repeated in any MMO since, it also has a lot of really horriblle aspects that should never be repeated in any MMO. Simply asking for an EQ clone is looking at EQ with rose colored glasses.
Since I wear rose colored glasses.. what horrible aspects should never be repeated? Dealth Penalty that stings? Food and Drink requirement? Weight limitations? No pull up map? Mobs that chase you to the zone line? Combat that last longer then 5 seconds?..... OR.. would you be talking about issues like epic quest rewards from open world bosses that are fought over like shark bait? If you mean the later, then yes, those issues could be addressed wtih today's technology, WITHOUT inventing instancing.. The thing is.. EQ had much more going right, then wrong.. EQ cloned today with minor changes would be PERFECT to me..
Let's not forget being able to drop items in the world and they stay their until someone picks them up. I know Smed has said the world will be seameless and that he is going back to some EQ roots along with updated features from Vanguard and EQ2.
Vanguard has no instances and a quite robust death penalty with xp lost and durability unless you go and find your tomb and even then you still lose xp.
I really don't know what the nay sayers are worried about because if Smed does introduce a hardcore server that is more akin to EQ(he has already said this might be in)they really don't have to choose that server.
As long as the hardcore server does not have any differance other than stiffer penaltys then it should not matter to the naysayers
Originally posted by DavisFlight Letting the players choose the penalty will result in the path of least resistance like it always does, and take away from the world feel.
Actually that would just make company would never get money from me. Simple as that. At the end is their decision.
Comments
I love Pizza, should I totally dislike it the next day?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
another way we could keep the death penalty relevent but not overly punishing would be to split up your characters development into more "lines" . I like race/class/deity/other ingame choice.
if your death penalty is only linked to your deity, and the deity element could be specced, you now have the power to minimize your death penalty if you wish ( if you think about it, it already only affects 1/4 of your character since theres no penalty for the other lines). Others might not want to though and choose another power. Perhaps a more hardcoreish player would choose the flamesword ability where another would choose the burning devotion (which directly reduces your losses in the deity line when you die).
this is choice, and since it can be specced, we can tailor the penalty similar to how we spec our characters. Rather than adopting a full range permadeath-----------------no penalty we tighten up the band a little but still retain a wide range of options.
no one on this site can tell me that more options and more lore incorperated gameplay is a bad thing. There are so many ways to play with it and it inspires freedom.
the exact same system can be used for pvp. Lots of options to protect your character from things like looting your body etc. Since you would need to have the appropiate "xp" in the deity line to use god powers it might also discourage zerg rushing.
At that point you might as well just put in a system where the player gets to choose between options like
Larger/more severe death penalty - increased chance for rare item drop / bonus gold/XP
Softer DP - "normal" rare loot % and no bonus gold/XP
I'm big fan of NON punishing death. :-))
Is NOT fun running half hour back to corpse or even waiting 10 mins after ressing in place or alike. Immagine now something more.
i could see some minor offensive abilities that slightly enhance your character, or more utility or protections for your character, but i wouldnt choose anything associated with loot or xp gain.
i wouldnt be against the original everquest modifiers in the game though. Class and race have nothing to do with death penalty if you use a deity system, and you have to have some compensation for really bad night vision on humans.
Not a bad idea. Also let the users choose difficulties.
I've been thinking of something similar as well but I am more interested in what you potentially gain by increasing risk. I'm a big proponent behind making everything interactive within a sandbox game. Even if the world is large and open I am ok with perhaps a tiered pvp system where the player chooses how much risk and access to pvp systems they can have. If this is truly a sandbox then I would like to see a political system and the degree of risk directly reflects the level you can delve into it.
The issue I see with a balls out or nothing system is that you minimize potential pvp. Offering a pvp-light sytem as well puts more "reds" into play overall.
You stay sassy!
But would make op happy and this also count. :-)
My thoughts exactly . Back in the day even a 5 hour corpse run/recovery didnt feel like a chore . These days , not so much . Maybe some games should consider a hardcore rules server or 2 . Maybe if I lost my job I would try it
Not if its a risk/difficulty vs reward system . Some people like taking chances for a better reward . Because then its not just resistance , its a different game . Balance is the key here , if the reward is worth the hassle , without breaking the game , I think this might work .
The fact is, while EQ had some interesting aspects that haven't been repeated in any MMO since, it also has a lot of really horriblle aspects that should never be repeated in any MMO. Simply asking for an EQ clone is looking at EQ with rose colored glasses.
yes harsh dealth penalty is a must.. i would like it to be full loot but we will have to wait and see.
You will be waiting for the rest of your life lol. Seems to me that the PVP fanatics are looking at EQNext to be their sandbox PVP savoir, it aint going to happen. EQNext will have a updated PVP system but make no mistake that the EQ franchise is PVE first and formost.
EQ has so much PVE lore and content that it far outshines any PVP.
Losing exp -- ok so long as it is not over 2 hours of grind for a single death.
Delevel -- fine.
Corpse Runs -- Only if Daoc or EQ2 as it released style(soul shards). I do not want to have to have secondary sets of equipment banked and have to run naked to a corpse if I die twice or have to hire people to try to get my corpse. Or worse lose it entirely. That is the way out of a raid guild -- oops you lost all of your raid equipment and now you are back to tier 1 -- cya.
This is why you have to be careful how you structure your options. IMO you cant touch stuff like drop rates and exp. You need to focus on minor combat abilities on one side to give the edge versus protections, utility and loss reductions on the other side.
most people would fall into the middle somewhere but the option to slightly modify it would be there, which is always better than no options.
the other thing it does is to blend the rules slightly so while you hate "X rule", a slightly broader ruleset with choices might be less offensive to you because it will likely have some configuration you like.
That will lead to more players "not being adamantly opposed"
Should be at higher lvls. perhaps days depending on how you play. there should be a "fear" of dieing in these mmos.
You shouldnt get deleveled. If you die you should encur exp loss as a negeitve.
Iv never heard of anyone being kicked from a rading guild for gear loss. Corps runs, imo, are a must. an added lvl of emersion to the game.
Since I wear rose colored glasses.. what horrible aspects should never be repeated? Dealth Penalty that stings? Food and Drink requirement? Weight limitations? No pull up map? Mobs that chase you to the zone line? Combat that last longer then 5 seconds?..... OR.. would you be talking about issues like epic quest rewards from open world bosses that are fought over like shark bait? If you mean the later, then yes, those issues could be addressed wtih today's technology, WITHOUT inventing instancing.. The thing is.. EQ had much more going right, then wrong.. EQ cloned today with minor changes would be PERFECT to me..
I hate punisihing deaths when this mean full loot, because in my point of view they ruin your diversion and gives nothing in return, as a game`s objective is to entertain all the playerbase, and i don`t see how living in fear of dying amd loosing can be anything but a pain for the majority of the gamers(i now, theres a minority who loves this, but just that, A MINORITY). So i hope EQ NExt stays far as possible from full loot. Not implementing full loot in any form, nor parcial loot by the way, i think new forms of punishing death may be an intersting thing to explore.
I would truly love a game with "semi-permadeath", where your character dies but you continue insome way with his descendants. Or that "who nows what kind of underworld you may find yourself into when you die" kind of thing, that makes you experience that pain in the ass journey to get back to the living world and to your previous adventures.( should be a time consuming and extenuating thing, really hard, no just to say it`s there, but to be a chalenge).
i have my doubts that either permadeath or full loot is on the table because they have wizardry in their stable that has both of those.
I think they have 2 set of server Hardcore death and softcore death, Hardcore will be similar to EQ1 was and softcore will be similar to current themepark games. I also expect in PvP server on HC you will be able to loot the money currently on the play you kill they may let you loot 1 item but doubt they will allow more than that. Of course like EQ1 you can bank your money.
I also expect encumbeance and money weight to be back in with EQnext maybe for both servers or just for the HC.
EQ1 was like the only game that had more than 2 server types instead of the typical PvP and PVE server they had PVE, PvP FFA, PvP teams Diety, PvP team race and later they brought out the Progressional server which progressed through all expansion.
Wouldnt surprise me if EQnext also has muiltpal server types aswell seeing SoE done it in the past and it seems there taking alot of thing from EQ1 for EQNext.
Let's not forget being able to drop items in the world and they stay their until someone picks them up. I know Smed has said the world will be seameless and that he is going back to some EQ roots along with updated features from Vanguard and EQ2.
Vanguard has no instances and a quite robust death penalty with xp lost and durability unless you go and find your tomb and even then you still lose xp.
I really don't know what the nay sayers are worried about because if Smed does introduce a hardcore server that is more akin to EQ(he has already said this might be in)they really don't have to choose that server.
As long as the hardcore server does not have any differance other than stiffer penaltys then it should not matter to the naysayers
Actually that would just make company would never get money from me. Simple as that. At the end is their decision.