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Rift - getting more attention

13

Comments

  • KeyloggerKeylogger Bumblefuck, TNPosts: 250Member

    I don't care for Rift, and gave it it's far shot.

    But it's obviously not going to go the route of most of the other post-TBC MMOs, and thus it must be bringing in new players and maintaining a stable population. Trion is a pretty decent company that apparently actually tries - and even if I don't like the game they deserve some props for that.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Vannor
    /snip

    Um, Im not posting in a WoW forum, am I?  Im posting in a RIFT forum.  Everyone that visits MMORPG.com is well aware of Rift.  So how does me posting in a Rift forum mean everyone that plays WoW knows about Rift?  But yes, Im suuuure that slogan caused more awareness than ads on mmo-champion or Rift's presence on curse (THAT is free advertising right there)

    I think you are under some delusion that the WoW community cared.  They didn't.  Of all the negative things you can say about the WoW community they do have one big positive compared to other games:  they dont obsess over games they arent playing.  

    And I'm sure Trion knows this.  No, this ad campaign was focused towards people that don't like WoW, or grew tired of it.  And yes, it got some of those people to try their game.  But it already put the WoW comparison in their heads, so they are going to scream WoW-clone when so much was so similar.  So if they didn't like WoW, or grew tired of it, why would they want to play a WoW-clone?

    And this is why its bad advertising:  It was targeting people that wanted something different from another product, yet offering something extremely similar to that product.  It's like showing an advertisement of a movie theater playng Die Hard 6, Rambo 7, and Terminator 10 and having someone say 'man, I sure wish there was another option' and then flashing THE EXPENDABLES on the screen.  Someone that doesnt want to see a die hard sequel is going to want to see Expendables?  Not likely.  And while it will trick some people into the door, negative word of mouth will spread and it will hurt future showings.  And forget about Expendables II, you just turned off a lot of people no matter how good expendables II may be.

    You're not posting on the WoW forum, no. But as you keep trying to make your opinion heard you and everyone replying to you are bumping this topic back onto the front page of this site. Many more people have now read this article about Rift than would have if you hadn't and chances are a few of them have just bought the expansion because of it or at least checked out the open beta or are trying the free 5 days from today. With this sort of thing happening on every site out there those numbers add up.

    Your opinion of Rift is what it is. I can see why some people think it's a clone, it's MMO standard these days. I've never been hooked on WoW but I have with Rift, that's where I stand. I don't care if it copies a lot, to me it's better.. so to me their slogan was accurate, connotations and all. Rift gave me something WoW didn't, regardless of where you stand on the subject you can't deny that not everyone feels the same way so what you are saying is subjective. No marketing campaign is going to please everyone and to take advantage of the people that arn't going to be interested in the game either way is a clever move. When that campaign went out it was the number one news story on every MMO site and a top story on every gaming news site and many gaming forums. Free adverts for their advert. Rift turned a massive profit at launch and then got tons of extra funding in Feb this year.. which went into developing the new expansion among other things. How things turn out after this expansion, we'll have to wait and see.

    As the only recently released P2P MMO still standing and going strong in terms of development, Rift, and any marketing campaign they have done, was not a failure.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Xasapis

    What's the measure of success? WoW numbers? Or actually be profitable, have a team that constantly develops for the game and probably the most important of all as far as mmorpgs go although it is subjective, the feeling that the game has a future, as opposed to slowly dying.

    Take SW:TOR for example as an opposite example, so to speak. SW:TOR still has a bigger following than Rift. Which of the two has a future though, looking at them at this point in time?

    We don't know enough about the populations of either.  If i had to guess they will both still be around in 5 years.

    I really think Rift isnt in the shape many people think it is, and that A LOT is banking on Storm Legion.  And Storm legion is great-for fans of Rift.  But it needs to grow Rift's fan base and I am not sure if it will do that.  No one is sure.  But I think that the worst case is probably Rift survives but has to alter revenue models.  

    And i dont see SWTOR falling off the face of the earth either.  In fact, that game has the most potential of any to turn it around.  People still want to play in the Star Wars unverse so if they can fix things up a bit there is hope.  Its not like its a VG-esque technical disaster.  

    This is why I think B2P has the potential to generate more revenue.  It lowers the barrier to entry and more importantly long term retention.  People don't have to play constantly, but being able to pick it up at any time, possibly spend a bit in the cash shop, and buy the xpac expands revenue potential dramatically.

    In my opinion the future for content churn games like this are with a B2P or F2P model.  Those trying to sell content churn on a monthly fee are taking the harder, likely less profitible road.  If a game can offer compelling and engaging systems that keep players busy then I think those will have an easier time offering the "join our club" subscription model.  RIFT is cool and a lot of fun, but it just doesn't offer the latter even with its housing expansion.

  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member

    rift has less pvp then wow now basiclly.

    ... less class balance.

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • KremlikKremlik CrewePosts: 716Member

     

    I'll just throw in my 2 copper on the sub numbers and server issues, yes Rift has less servers, yes Rift has less players then the 'big IP' games - does it matter? No.

    Trion have been VERY smart in building the game, not just with the engine, design, gameplay or marketing but the whole business in general. Rift may have  around 150-200K players but as far as the MMO itself is thats perfectly fine as the game is profitable, in fact it reached that a while back, plus you have to remember that Rift isn't the only game they have End of Nations is due out soon and that Sifi TV show/MMO is still in the works, if Trion didn't have the money to run Rift then they wouldn't have the money to invest in other games even before Rift was barely out.

    The fact of the matter is that Trion are good devs, 'preimum services' like character transfers are free, the servers may have merged but hold more players and the level of content updates have outdone some game's expantions. Despite it's flaws such as low  release content,  and open/conquest pvp a joke, Rift may not have held my attention all the time but at least it's given me a much stronger reason to resub to it.

    The question on if the game should go B2P/F2P the answer is also no, there isn't any need too. The main reason lately that games that have been subcription based turning to F2P isn't becuase the market is heading to a 'sub-free' era it's more because those games have been lacking in profits (and/or poor in general). SWTOR has been mentioned a lot in this topic, so has WoW, the main reason SWTOR is heading F2P hybrid is that it hasn't 'made money' in fact I'm still unsure it made any real profit back, $200+ million was put into that game and look at it, it's engine isn't even in house, how could they have spent THAT much on it? Marketing mostly. If you really look at all those that have 'turned' why few weren't big buget known IP games it isn't the case of 'sub numbers', it's the case of investment and profit, the 'suits' couldn't get their money back fast enough over the publisher's 'grand ideas' and sales/sub projections. 

    That is why there is no questioning the reason why WoW isn't moving to full F2P any time soon it's turning a profit, same with Rift. Rift may not be 'totally orginal' or a 'AAA' IP/game, but it ticks boxes for people and the dev team actually thinks about the game long term over short term profits.

    It's the dark horse of the market and doesn't mind being second (or forth) fiddle, and many like it that way.

    Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!

  • ArkainArkain Tampa, FLPosts: 490Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kremlik

     

    I'll just throw in my 2 copper on the sub numbers and server issues, yes Rift has less servers, yes Rift has less players then the 'big IP' games - does it matter? No.

    Trion have been VERY smart in building the game, not just with the engine, design, gameplay or marketing but the whole business in general. Rift may have  around 150-200K players but as far as the MMO itself is thats perfectly fine as the game is profitable, in fact it reached that a while back, plus you have to remember that Rift isn't the only game they have End of Nations is due out soon and that Sifi TV show/MMO is still in the works, if Trion didn't have the money to run Rift then they wouldn't have the money to invest in other games even before Rift was barely out.

    The fact of the matter is that Trion are good devs, 'preimum services' like character transfers are free, the servers may have merged but hold more players and the level of content updates have outdone some game's expantions. Despite it's flaws such as low  release content,  and open/conquest pvp a joke, Rift may not have held my attention all the time but at least it's given me a much stronger reason to resub to it.

    The question on if the game should go B2P/F2P the answer is also no, there isn't any need too. The main reason lately that games that have been subcription based turning to F2P isn't becuase the market is heading to a 'sub-free' era it's more because those games have been lacking in profits (and/or poor in general). SWTOR has been mentioned a lot in this topic, so has WoW, the main reason SWTOR is heading F2P hybrid is that it hasn't 'made money' in fact I'm still unsure it made any real profit back, $200+ million was put into that game and look at it, it's engine isn't even in house, how could they have spent THAT much on it? Marketing mostly. If you really look at all those that have 'turned' why few weren't big buget known IP games it isn't the case of 'sub numbers', it's the case of investment and profit, the 'suits' couldn't get their money back fast enough over the publisher's 'grand ideas' and sales/sub projections. 

    That is why there is no questioning the reason why WoW isn't moving to full F2P any time soon it's turning a profit, same with Rift. Rift may not be 'totally orginal' or a 'AAA' IP/game, but it ticks boxes for people and the dev team actually thinks about the game long term over short term profits.

    It's the dark horse of the market and doesn't mind being second (or forth) fiddle, and many like it that way.

    ^This +1

    image
  • f0dell54f0dell54 Des Moines, IAPosts: 329Member Common
    Originally posted by Arkain
    Originally posted by Kremlik

     

    I'll just throw in my 2 copper on the sub numbers and server issues, yes Rift has less servers, yes Rift has less players then the 'big IP' games - does it matter? No.

    Trion have been VERY smart in building the game, not just with the engine, design, gameplay or marketing but the whole business in general. Rift may have  around 150-200K players but as far as the MMO itself is thats perfectly fine as the game is profitable, in fact it reached that a while back, plus you have to remember that Rift isn't the only game they have End of Nations is due out soon and that Sifi TV show/MMO is still in the works, if Trion didn't have the money to run Rift then they wouldn't have the money to invest in other games even before Rift was barely out.

    The fact of the matter is that Trion are good devs, 'preimum services' like character transfers are free, the servers may have merged but hold more players and the level of content updates have outdone some game's expantions. Despite it's flaws such as low  release content,  and open/conquest pvp a joke, Rift may not have held my attention all the time but at least it's given me a much stronger reason to resub to it.

    The question on if the game should go B2P/F2P the answer is also no, there isn't any need too. The main reason lately that games that have been subcription based turning to F2P isn't becuase the market is heading to a 'sub-free' era it's more because those games have been lacking in profits (and/or poor in general). SWTOR has been mentioned a lot in this topic, so has WoW, the main reason SWTOR is heading F2P hybrid is that it hasn't 'made money' in fact I'm still unsure it made any real profit back, $200+ million was put into that game and look at it, it's engine isn't even in house, how could they have spent THAT much on it? Marketing mostly. If you really look at all those that have 'turned' why few weren't big buget known IP games it isn't the case of 'sub numbers', it's the case of investment and profit, the 'suits' couldn't get their money back fast enough over the publisher's 'grand ideas' and sales/sub projections. 

    That is why there is no questioning the reason why WoW isn't moving to full F2P any time soon it's turning a profit, same with Rift. Rift may not be 'totally orginal' or a 'AAA' IP/game, but it ticks boxes for people and the dev team actually thinks about the game long term over short term profits.

    It's the dark horse of the market and doesn't mind being second (or forth) fiddle, and many like it that way.

    ^This +1

    +2

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    ...

    This is why I think B2P has the potential to generate more revenue.  It lowers the barrier to entry and more importantly long term retention.  People don't have to play constantly, but being able to pick it up at any time, possibly spend a bit in the cash shop, and buy the xpac expands revenue potential dramatically.

    In my opinion the future for content churn games like this are with a B2P or F2P model.  Those trying to sell content churn on a monthly fee are taking the harder, likely less profitible road.  If a game can offer compelling and engaging systems that keep players busy then I think those will have an easier time offering the "join our club" subscription model.  RIFT is cool and a lot of fun, but it just doesn't offer the latter even with its housing expansion.

    From the looks of it B2P generate less revenue than a subscription game, by far. At least that's what the financial results from NCsoft clearly demonstrate. A subscription game that is released only in Korea (Blade & Soul) is only lagging by 20% behind a B2P game that has launched worldwide (GW2). The next quarter results will be more indicative on the impact of the cash shop in GW2, but the big money in the B2P model are generated at the purchase, which has already happened and is quite frankly, underwhelming. On the other hand, the subscription based game will continue to generate steady income for the duration of its lifespan.

  • crazyed66crazyed66 MoePosts: 17Member

    GOSH!!!

    I have read many threads now about this game being better than that game, when this game came out it was like etc... BUT I think many are missing something!

    When WOW was released it was like the first cummuter jet, there was nothing like it around and it blew us away with it's innovative gameplay and huge open world. Honest gamers (who are old enough to remember wow legacy :) ) will admit how awe struck and excited we all were.

    NOW the mmo environment is way different, the proverbial skies are saturated with jets, mmos are everywhere and the competition for development of new and better mmos doesn't seem to be slowing. It is becoming a huge industry as the internet constantly improves and our lives are becoming more and more cyber based.

    With all that being said I think RIFT is an excellent mmo that is striving to be and remain current. WOW will always have a dedicated fan base until they flick the off switch for the last time. RIFT (if the devs keep doing what they are doing, in my opinion) will also have a dedicated fan base till it's eventual end.

    Blizzard is a behemoth of a company  compared to Trion (at the moment) so I feel population comparisons are pointless and not a good sign of level of success equaly pointless is comparisons of game tech and requirements as WOW was made in a different era to RIFT. The only comparisons that are worthy of note are GAMEPLAY and CONTENT as these are the game, so to speak.

    Now my rant is over "Is RIFT getting more attention?" I must ask More than what? More than WOW? More than GW2? heck, More than EQ2????    WHO CARES?!! It really isn't important. Try RIFT like it? play it! don't like it? don't play it! I personally love RIFT as do many many others, I also love GW2 and although I don't play WOW anymore I love that to and I don't begrudge any who do still play it.

    For anyone who is worried about the future of RIFT, DON'T! It will be around for a long time, it may grow it may not but it will always at its core be RIFT!

     

  • bigronbigron Brooklyn, NYPosts: 42Member
    Originally posted by Volgore

    I guess the Storm Legion addon will end up the same way the initial game did right after release.

    Starting at 39,99, Trion soon had discounts literally every weekend, the game went for less then 10Eur allover the internet and some webshops have given away their keys for free (i still have some). I eventually bought the CE for 6Eur on steam.

    So no way i'm going to buy the addon for 25Eur (standard edition), as it might drop to 5Eur again after 4 weeks.

    I kind of feel this way. I played the beta and it's really pretty good PVE-wise. PVP is still meh, even though the new trees are tons of fun. Gamersgate is already running 24.99 USD sale. I like it a lot, but 24.99 + 15 for the month is a lot if it's going to be $10 in a month w/a month free or something.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Kremlik

     

    The question on if the game should go B2P/F2P the answer is also no, there isn't any need too. 

    That is why there is no questioning the reason why WoW isn't moving to full F2P any time soon it's turning a profit, same with Rift.

    How do you know this?  You have some insider information we don't have?  Why was that last mount more expansive than the others?  Why is Deep's Depot added into the game?

    Rift may not be 'totally orginal' or a 'AAA' IP/game, but it ticks boxes for people and the dev team actually thinks about the game long term over short term profits.

    Like rushing conquest out the door because of GW2?  Why not wait and make it a unique, open world zone with Storm Legion?  No, they had to get 3 team PvP out the door because of what other games were doing.

    It's the dark horse of the market and doesn't mind being second (or forth) fiddle, and many like it that way.

    No one would mind being second fiddle to WoW.  They are trying to get as many subs as they can.  A game like EvE doesnt care so much, they have their niche audience and dont try to pander to everyone.  EQ1 gave up the PvP market because it allowed them to better focus on PvE.  Rift is still trying to please everyone, all types of play.  I think trion is smart enough to know it will never beat WoW, but they sure dont seem happy with their place in the market. 

     

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    ...

    This is why I think B2P has the potential to generate more revenue.  It lowers the barrier to entry and more importantly long term retention.  People don't have to play constantly, but being able to pick it up at any time, possibly spend a bit in the cash shop, and buy the xpac expands revenue potential dramatically.

    In my opinion the future for content churn games like this are with a B2P or F2P model.  Those trying to sell content churn on a monthly fee are taking the harder, likely less profitible road.  If a game can offer compelling and engaging systems that keep players busy then I think those will have an easier time offering the "join our club" subscription model.  RIFT is cool and a lot of fun, but it just doesn't offer the latter even with its housing expansion.

    From the looks of it B2P generate less revenue than a subscription game, by far. At least that's what the financial results from NCsoft clearly demonstrate. A subscription game that is released only in Korea (Blade & Soul) is only lagging by 20% behind a B2P game that has launched worldwide (GW2). The next quarter results will be more indicative on the impact of the cash shop in GW2, but the big money in the B2P model are generated at the purchase, which has already happened and is quite frankly, underwhelming. On the other hand, the subscription based game will continue to generate steady income for the duration of its lifespan.

    GW2 sales were about 5 weeks of Q3 and still accounted for the greatest revenue portion at 27% of the total share.  GW2 sales aren't global yet.  They are only in the West while B&S has Asia.  You can't buy GW2 from Korea or China yet.  The Asian market is stronger than the western market by sheer volume of players.

    Don't understimate the revenue potential or playerbase in Korea like most westerners do.  Fifteen years later Lineage still makes more money than most western MMOs.

    But you could be right and I could be wrong.  The next couple quarters will tell a better picture.  Q4 is going to be skewed by holiday sales so I'll be interested to see how Q1 and Q2 show.

    I do think P2P will be on a decline for certain game types.  Themepark content churn games would be better served by B2P imo.  If RIFT remains a content churn game then I do think it would do better B2P.  If it starts adding integrated systems and some depth then maybe keeping the sub model will serve them better.

  • KremlikKremlik CrewePosts: 716Member
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Kremlik

     

    The question on if the game should go B2P/F2P the answer is also no, there isn't any need too. 

    That is why there is no questioning the reason why WoW isn't moving to full F2P any time soon it's turning a profit, same with Rift.

    How do you know this?  You have some insider information we don't have?  Why was that last mount more expansive than the others?  Why is Deep's Depot added into the game?

    Rift may not be 'totally orginal' or a 'AAA' IP/game, but it ticks boxes for people and the dev team actually thinks about the game long term over short term profits.

    Like rushing conquest out the door because of GW2?  Why not wait and make it a unique, open world zone with Storm Legion?  No, they had to get 3 team PvP out the door because of what other games were doing.

    It's the dark horse of the market and doesn't mind being second (or forth) fiddle, and many like it that way.

    No one would mind being second fiddle to WoW.  They are trying to get as many subs as they can.  A game like EvE doesnt care so much, they have their niche audience and dont try to pander to everyone.  EQ1 gave up the PvP market because it allowed them to better focus on PvE.  Rift is still trying to please everyone, all types of play.  I think trion is smart enough to know it will never beat WoW, but they sure dont seem happy with their place in the market. 

     

     

    I'll just comment on the Deep's Deport/Mount being 'signs of F2P'.

    Just because you can buy game time, mounts, and preimum features from within the game instead of going through the actual account pages doesn't automatically scream 'IT'S A F2P CASH SHOP!', it's a convenience, much like the character transfer option isn't on the account pages but on the actual character menu. Trion has seen the logic of why every account feature 'has to be' on a webpage, why can't it be in game? In fact with the coin lock feature in Rift I think it's actually MORE sercure to have those account options in game then on a web page that can be accessed by anyone, anywhere, with in these days any device. I wouldn't be too shocked if Trion scaled back the account pages to just the very basic on the web in a few months.

    As for the latest Mount Trion did actually give a reason for the price difference I can't remember off the top of my head why but it was ok, but it's currently £9.99, which is still good value if you compare that to WoW's 'Sparkle Pony', which if you remember sold millions in it's first day. Is Trion double dipping on it's playerbase? No. Does it mean core content will be left out of the core game to be placed as 'DLC'? Unlikely.

    The mounts and basic 'upgrades' to the game don't actually give any advantage over another player (yes having the turtle mont from level 5 helps) but it's still optional fluff, in fact the only reason the other two (besides the collectors edtion upgrade from the core game) are there as optional upgrades was because both were featured as release incentives in other areas, they were never intended to be anything else, it's only because the playerbase asked for them to be accessable by all they ended up as upgrades.

    Will Trion release more mounts/fluff to buy? I don't know, however there is one sure thing we will see more Vet Rewards. Trion have taken a very good idea from games like City of Heroes with the Vet Rewards as it's rewarding players for just playing the game. The clever thing is unlike most Vet Rewards they require you to actually unlock them over time or rewarded after the fact, Trion give unlock them as soon as you pay for the length of gametime. Is this 'evil' or exploiting the playerbase? Nope, due to the fact it's the player's choice to pay for up to 36 months of gametime to unlock all those rewards 'now'. It's a very smart move by Trion as the player gets their 'fluff' and Trion gets a player for a long time so even if said player leaves the game 'until the next content update' they can still come back no pressure as they already have the subcription open to do so and Trion hasn't really dragged their feet on updates TBH..

    How do the Vet Rewards say Rift isn't heading into F2P any time soon? Basically because it's not just a handful of players doing it quite a lot actually pay ahead in gametime, take the Storm Chaser offer, people have already paid up to Aug 2013 now at least, Trion possibily have two thirds of the money to keep the servers running next year just from Rift alone, and they still have two other games.

    It would be a bad business move to drop into the F2P market when they don't need too, it's to crowded, the subcription market has a lot less to compete with and as long as nothing massivily wrong happens (like Storm Leagon or the other games flopping) Rift is fine as a subcription model.

    Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Kremlik

     

     

    I'll just comment on the Deep's Deport/Mount being 'signs of F2P'.

    No, they arent signs necessarily of F2P, but of signs that maybe Rift isnt turning a profit on subs alone

    Just because you can buy game time, mounts, and preimum features from within the game instead of going through the actual account pages doesn't automatically scream 'IT'S A F2P CASH SHOP!', it's a convenience, much like the character transfer option isn't on the account pages but on the actual character menu. Trion has seen the logic of why every account feature 'has to be' on a webpage, why can't it be in game? In fact with the coin lock feature in Rift I think it's actually MORE sercure to have those account options in game then on a web page that can be accessed by anyone, anywhere, with in these days any device. I wouldn't be too shocked if Trion scaled back the account pages to just the very basic on the web in a few months.

    Or maybe they have seen that EQ2 has it in game and thought 'wow, since its much easier to get a name change without going to the website, i bet a lot more people do it!  Convenience isnt to benefit the customer here, its to benefit Trion.  And then there is the name of the thing.  Deep's Depot.  Thats a terrible name for something thats only account changes.  Sure sounds to me like they are at least contemplating an item shop.

    And let me repeat what I have said before:  there is NOTHING wrong with sub + cash shop, if and only if you need the reenue to continue the same pace of development.

    As for the latest Mount Trion did actually give a reason for the price difference I can't remember off the top of my head why but it was ok, but it's currently £9.99, which is still good value if you compare that to WoW's 'Sparkle Pony', which if you remember sold millions in it's first day. Is Trion double dipping on it's playerbase? No. Does it mean core content will be left out of the core game to be placed as 'DLC'? Unlikely.

    So because the mount is cheaper than WoW's mount its not double dipping?  Come on.  And see my sentence above.  I have no issue with it, but call it what it is.  People make so many excuses for this company its ridiculous.

    The mounts and basic 'upgrades' to the game don't actually give any advantage over another player (yes having the turtle mont from level 5 helps) but it's still optional fluff, in fact the only reason the other two (besides the collectors edtion upgrade from the core game) are there as optional upgrades was because both were featured as release incentives in other areas, they were never intended to be anything else, it's only because the playerbase asked for them to be accessable by all they ended up as upgrades.

    Someobody has fallen for the spin.  The first upgrade was in game day 1, no one had to ask for it.  In fact you are bombarded with an ad for it every time you log in.  You want to know the real way to do it?  Everytime you release another of these collectors editions, give everyone who already has the collectors edition the same perks of the new one.  You say they arent double dipping?  tell that people with multiple collector's edition upgrades.

    Will Trion release more mounts/fluff to buy? I don't know, however there is one sure thing we will see more Vet Rewards. Trion have taken a very good idea from games like City of Heroes with the Vet Rewards as it's rewarding players for just playing the game. The clever thing is unlike most Vet Rewards they require you to actually unlock them over time or rewarded after the fact, Trion give unlock them as soon as you pay for the length of gametime. Is this 'evil' or exploiting the playerbase? Nope, due to the fact it's the player's choice to pay for up to 36 months of gametime to unlock all those rewards 'now'. It's a very smart move by Trion as the player gets their 'fluff' and Trion gets a player for a long time so even if said player leaves the game 'until the next content update' they can still come back no pressure as they already have the subcription open to do so and Trion hasn't really dragged their feet on updates TBH..

    Trion did nothing here that EQ2 isnt alreay doing, except that EQ2 keeps it to a year ahead of the pace.  Its an especially smart move in a game where people dont stick around that long on average.  

    How do the Vet Rewards say Rift isn't heading into F2P any time soon? Basically because it's not just a handful of players doing it quite a lot actually pay ahead in gametime, take the Storm Chaser offer, people have already paid up to Aug 2013 now at least, Trion possibily have two thirds of the money to keep the servers running next year just from Rift alone, and they still have two other games.

    They have more money now, but less incremental revenue going forward.  And the servers are not that expensive relative to the big pictures.  The salaries and benefits are.  We have no clue how much of the storm chaser money went to the salaries and servers and how much went to advertising (for Rift and Defiance) as well as paying back investors.

    It would be a bad business move to drop into the F2P market when they don't need too, it's to crowded, the subcription market has a lot less to compete with and as long as nothing massivily wrong happens (like Storm Leagon or the other games flopping) Rift is fine as a subcription model.

    And again, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that Riift is 'fine'.  Maybe after Storm legon they will be, but if SL isnt a hge success don't be shocked to see fluff start showing up in the cash shop.  i dont think Trion would take the freemium route, but you never know.

     

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon

    So I really like the game.  I like themeparks just as much as I do systems driven games and Trion is finally adding a system (other than crafting) to the game with housing.

    But there are some things that just grate me about their business model.  If I'm paying a sub then I really hate paying for micro-transactions to boot.  I'll do if I really like the game, but it's definitely a negative factor for me.

    The xpac is kind of a sore point with me because if you don't pony up the $40+ in cash for the xpac you are essentially left behind.  It's not an optional content upgrade.  It's total pay to win in the most classic definition of the buzzword.  You can't level and as a result won't get to expand your soul tree.  They've totally NGE'd the class combat system to center around level 60.  So not only are you left behind but the classes at 50 are nerfed compared to what they used to deliver.  You also can't gear progress, crafting progress, or run any group content with the rest of the players unless you pony up more cash and buy your way into that.  You get to visit other players houses. Yay?

    I paid for a years sub earlier in the year because I do appreciate the patches they put out and it's apparent they put money back into their game.  However, I now have several months left on my sub that is totally useless and a waste of money.  I've never hated the subscription model as much as this as I do right now.  The frustrations makes me never want to do a sub again.

  • ThillianThillian BratislavaPosts: 3,143Member Uncommon
    Rift was easily one of the worst MMORPG of the decade with no new ideas whatsoever. The world was generic, the leveling was incredibly linear, the world was small, the combat was average, customization was based on talent trees, everything was just so... average and ordinary.

    REALITY CHECK

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Thillian
    Rift was easily one of the worst MMORPG of the decade with no new ideas whatsoever. The world was generic, the leveling was incredibly linear, the world was small, the combat was average, customization was based on talent trees, everything was just so... average and ordinary.

    Tell us how you really feel.       image

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • bigronbigron Brooklyn, NYPosts: 42Member
    Originally posted by Thillian
    Rift was easily one of the worst MMORPG of the decade with no new ideas whatsoever. The world was generic, the leveling was incredibly linear, the world was small, the combat was average, customization was based on talent trees, everything was just so... average and ordinary.

    There are a lot worse MMOs. Play any of the F2P KRPGs.

    Customization in every MMO I can think of besides maybe GW and TSW is based on a similar TT (though I'm sure there are a few other ways).  The TT in RIFT actually allows for a lot of flexibility in character builds and the ability to play multiple roles per character class.

    RIFT is pre-Cata WoW, but better (PVP aside....).

    WoW was EQ, but better.

    This isn't a tremendously innovative genre. In hindsight, the combat seems a bit dated after TERA, DCUO, Vindictus and RaiderZ, but of those only DCUO has decent lore and even then it's basically a console "MMO lite" game

  • bigronbigron Brooklyn, NYPosts: 42Member
    Originally posted by Bakkoda24

    I really did enjoy Rift playing the beta and recently playing Rift Lite. 

    Trion could potentially have each expansion pack deal with a particular elemental rift. That's 6 potential expansion packs that increase world size, drastically increase endgame content, and various other things.

    However, I think for Rift to be a lasting contender and garner a lot of attention/subcribers there needs to be a relatively equal distribution of content among levels.

    In my opinion, games like WoW and WAR (in the success that it did have) were that there were multiple levelling paths to take. So as long as Rift implements multiple levelling paths that should alleviate some problems.

    Only problem I can see is the inevitable flood of complaints about having to pay for expansion packs. But, as long as it's worth the money that shouldn't be a problem.

    WAR's a complete failure because they never updated content.

    RIFT has IA's and instanced PVP. Levelling an alt is easy. There are actually people complaining IA makes levelling too easy. WAR was also a PVP game, RIFT is solidly in the PVE camp.

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,348Member Uncommon

    after playing this game pretty much daily from 1.11 onward I can say that i already left the game again and that was putting in a lot of time in beta. All the glaring issues in rift are still there and the devs continue just to be totally out of touch with majority of the people coming and going. With that being said the housing is top notch if you like to build with minecraft , but ....you can play minecraft survival for that and get the effect 150% better. The new soul system was all about nerfing and continues to get nerfed across the board but clerics. Every new little hot fix brings with it soul nerfs for warriors to the point i havent touched mine in two weeks now. The carnage quests just suck and are beyond boring crap compared even to the old quest hubs and unless you are in love with the design of ember isle you will find the new zones more of the same EI progression but with added in kill 20 of this 15 of that along the way.  While they made strides to making the world much larger , the boring quest system and lackluster soul system just sent me away , this time in way less time than before when i played for about 5 months straight.

    I wish rift players the best of luck though because with the latest server merges I see this going the way of warhammer online very soon. People can argue they have all this new great technology all they want , but anyone who actually plays this and isnt some spectator or low level noob can tell you that people always leave , and just come back in high hopes the game patches have made the game better . This expansion just isnt going to do a thing for rift except milk the player base a  little longer , but anyone disliking rift before will dislike it just as bad with Storm Legion.

  • bigronbigron Brooklyn, NYPosts: 42Member
    Originally posted by cronius77

    after playing this game pretty much daily from 1.11 onward I can say that i already left the game again and that was putting in a lot of time in beta. All the glaring issues in rift are still there and the devs continue just to be totally out of touch with majority of the people coming and going. With that being said the housing is top notch if you like to build with minecraft , but ....you can play minecraft survival for that and get the effect 150% better. The new soul system was all about nerfing and continues to get nerfed across the board but clerics. Every new little hot fix brings with it soul nerfs for warriors to the point i havent touched mine in two weeks now. The carnage quests just suck and are beyond boring crap compared even to the old quest hubs and unless you are in love with the design of ember isle you will find the new zones more of the same EI progression but with added in kill 20 of this 15 of that along the way.  While they made strides to making the world much larger , the boring quest system and lackluster soul system just sent me away , this time in way less time than before when i played for about 5 months straight.

    I wish rift players the best of luck though because with the latest server merges I see this going the way of warhammer online very soon. People can argue they have all this new great technology all they want , but anyone who actually plays this and isnt some spectator or low level noob can tell you that people always leave , and just come back in high hopes the game patches have made the game better . This expansion just isnt going to do a thing for rift except milk the player base a  little longer , but anyone disliking rift before will dislike it just as bad with Storm Legion.

    Cleric healers got hit pretty hard with AOE heal nerfs (even if HOTs got buffs). Most of my builds weren't viable. They changed all the classes, a lot. If anything, the mage harbinger soul is probably the most OP one now. I'm still on the fence about purchase because PVP class balance is still a disaster and the devs don't care about it.

    Class nerfs/buffs happen. If you play MMOs you know that. One patch X is god tier and Y is trash, 2 patches later Y is god tier. 3 patches later, the classes border on unrecognizable. In 1.9 wars were god tier.

    Otherwise, I pretty much agree. If you liked RIFT before you still will, if you didn't this won't change your mind.

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member
    Originally posted by DonY81

     

    Can somebody tell me or share with me there thoughts as to Rift as i kind of think it could be a rising star in the future....well i cant see how it couldnt be?

     

    Over & Out

    If there is a program that  is better than this product,then there is no future.

    Theres allready 10000 Coca Colas and Pepsis on the MMO Pop market and only one of them can be "The One" rest are just Dr.Peppers.

    So its better for you Mr.Rift that you try to find your own taste like Russian Vodka,its quite nice actually,and theres some competition also,maybe Dr.Vodka?

    Housing is cool addition ok i admit that,but casual crowd hates virtual world and RPG crowd loves housing,how to please them both ? if thats possible then WoW would have its  housing in patch 1.001.

    Let's internet

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,348Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bigron
    Originally posted by cronius77

    after playing this game pretty much daily from 1.11 onward I can say that i already left the game again and that was putting in a lot of time in beta. All the glaring issues in rift are still there and the devs continue just to be totally out of touch with majority of the people coming and going. With that being said the housing is top notch if you like to build with minecraft , but ....you can play minecraft survival for that and get the effect 150% better. The new soul system was all about nerfing and continues to get nerfed across the board but clerics. Every new little hot fix brings with it soul nerfs for warriors to the point i havent touched mine in two weeks now. The carnage quests just suck and are beyond boring crap compared even to the old quest hubs and unless you are in love with the design of ember isle you will find the new zones more of the same EI progression but with added in kill 20 of this 15 of that along the way.  While they made strides to making the world much larger , the boring quest system and lackluster soul system just sent me away , this time in way less time than before when i played for about 5 months straight.

    I wish rift players the best of luck though because with the latest server merges I see this going the way of warhammer online very soon. People can argue they have all this new great technology all they want , but anyone who actually plays this and isnt some spectator or low level noob can tell you that people always leave , and just come back in high hopes the game patches have made the game better . This expansion just isnt going to do a thing for rift except milk the player base a  little longer , but anyone disliking rift before will dislike it just as bad with Storm Legion.

    Cleric healers got hit pretty hard with AOE heal nerfs (even if HOTs got buffs). Most of my builds weren't viable. They changed all the classes, a lot. If anything, the mage harbinger soul is probably the most OP one now. I'm still on the fence about purchase because PVP class balance is still a disaster and the devs don't care about it.

    Class nerfs/buffs happen. If you play MMOs you know that. One patch X is god tier and Y is trash, 2 patches later Y is god tier. 3 patches later, the classes border on unrecognizable. In 1.9 wars were god tier.

    Otherwise, I pretty much agree. If you liked RIFT before you still will, if you didn't this won't change your mind.

    yeah i forgot about the aoe healing nerfs , i was speaking on the justicar soul sorry i should of been clearer. Nerfs happen you are right in every game as ive played them for years and the only other game i can think of right now that does the amount of nerfing is wow . The latest news is conquest is being removed also until they have enough 60s to do it at end game and they still have not designed a new map for it yet or even decided on its location . Its in the dev posts on their forums just cant find the old link .

    See myself im not the type of guy to run around just spewing off nonsense about wow clone like some of the guys on here do who never even tried it. My beef with rift is the devs suck period (the class ones). Storm Legion doesnt offer nothing new at all to rift but more grinding from what i seen and the carnage quests are a sideshow attempt at more grinding for adventurer tokens. If the combat was fast paced like TSW or GW2 or Tera i could see the carnage quests being a lot of fun but the mobs have tons of health and take forever just to kill so its grinding nothing more. I really wish I could stick it out with Rift but no matter how hard i try every patch note i read since 1.11 has just pissed me off and after playing the beta for the 4 days running around on my warrior and rogue , i just hate it worse than the wow MOP expansion for grinding.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by bigron

    WoW was EQ, but better.

     

    This baffles me.  Did people just not play EQ?   The two games are extremely dissimilar other than the genre similarities.

     

    Both great games with strong virtual worlds, but the game play, and especially core philosophy, is very different.

  • watchawatchawatchawatcha LIC, NYPosts: 960Member
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by bigron

    WoW was EQ, but better.

     

    This baffles me.  Did people just not play EQ?   The two games are extremely dissimilar other than the genre similarities.

     

    Both great games with strong virtual worlds, but the game play, and especially core philosophy, is very different.

    WoW was very different when it came out, than the way the game is now.

     

    As for Trion, they are one of the greatest video game companies right now.  Whether MMO players like or hate Rift, everyone should be thankful that company is on the scene.  They push other developers in terms of amount and quality of content.  That's a good thing.  Just like ArenaNet is great for the industry as well.

     

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