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EQ next!! who want punishing death?

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  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by Tamanous
    Originally posted by Torik
    Originally posted by RandomDown

    People say they want death penalties because there is no reason to bother trying to survive. Why isn't the incentive doing it well on the first try or not giving up mid fight? So what if you don't lose experience after you die or undergo significant item decay? I played EQ (a troll, but a warrior, so that helped offset the racial penalty) on release and loved Vanguard and hated how much they reduced the repair prices shortly after release (but that was the least of its issues). 

     

    What you're saying is its not worth the effort unless you're punished for not making the effort. I played TOR, WoW, RIft and all that jazz and even if dying had no noticeable penalty it still didn't mean giving up on a boss fight until the last man is down. The fact that you aren't willing to try because there is no penalty is worse than there not being a penalty at all. 

     

    Offtopic but the Equipment Expertise was one of the greatest ideas in Vanguard. So sad it got removed too.

    I am always suprised by the lack of internal motivation some people seem to have.  They seem completely uncabable of taking pride in what they are doing unless they have penalties for failure imposed on them. 

    I went back to WoW recently and every time my character dies, I feel like crap even when the penalties are negligible.  I take pride in playing to the best of my abilities and a death means that I screwed up. 

    My biggest problem with death penalties is that they cater to a type of player that is incapable of taking pride in playing their best and would be too lazy to play well without penalties. 

    Most people have pride. A death penalty has very little to do with though. Read my post previously.

     

    Basically a death penalty plays two roles:

     

    1. To provide a system that creates attrition which is a requirement to enforce a victor/loser scenario in both pve and pvp. There must be a mechanism that limits the ability to mad rush content no matter what happens. Die 23 times? Who cares right when you can just bumrush you goal.

    2. Virtual world immersion. In a fantasy world death isn't supposed to be taken likely. It SHOULD be written into the lore. You trivialize the world that is trying to be created. There are rewards set in place at every level of the game for being victorious. It is pure ignorance and immaturity to expect no penalties for death to counter that. It ups the stakes.

     

    Pride may make you feel bad for a death but expecting to instantly re-enter the battle 5 seconds later with no penalties after another player spent all their time and effort to successfully accomplish their goal (this could be as impressive as a lengthy compaing for keep/regional control or just simply a one on one fight) is just a pure and selfish view. In a multi-player game filled with rewards there must also be penalties enforcing the importance of those goals. Rewards are not rewards without risk of failure. Failure does not exist without weighted drawbacks. There has to be a sense of realism of the game world becomes exacly why I hate Wow. All you then have to do is chain queue dungeons and speed run your way to your goal. Time spent becomes your way to victory ... not fair play. That is not an mmo. That is a farmville game for your iphone.

     

    We should also get one thing straight here that many are missing. An online fantasy game who's primary mission is to create a living, breathing and immersive virtual world by definition is NOT for everyone. The entire reason why mmos have become watered down is due to companies trying to increase accessiblity to their game. The act of doing so destroys the concept of the game. Fundamental mmorpg concepts when not compromised automatically strictly defines the genre and alienates players not attracted to it. This is a GOOD thing ... a fucking excellent thing. Why can not the core audience of online virtual rpgs have what they want? FPS shooter players get what they want. RTS players get what they want. Rpg lovers should also get what they want.

     

    The industry needs to wake up and to try to stop catering to everyone and build the solid communities that got them where they are at now instead of dismantling them and creating throw away mmo's like we have now.

    Well said agree with everyting you just said here +1

    Not being able to attain whatever reward you are persuing due to failure is usually more than enough punishment for most people.  Labeling other differing views on death penalties as being purely sefish is certainly not going to win you much popularity outside of the hardcore masochist niche.

     

    By the way, don't you already get harsh death penalties in Eve and Darkfall and its upcoming upgrade?  Plus there is the truly hardcore perma death coming in Wizardry Online.  Considering your idea of a fun mechanic doesn't appeal to most, I'd say you have adequate representation in the genre already.

    Ill be playing both Darkfall UW and wizardy online, thing with darkfall it it wont be a well polished game like EQNext, and i think wizardy will be more dunguen crawlin g type but i am intrigued about giving it ago sound challenging, what i would like to see is a Full world like EQ1 again remade with uptodate features witha  good death penalty. I find games without a good death penatly quite dull and boring without and real risks involved. The easy fix to the problem of people wanting and not wanting a good detah system is toi have both on different servers a hardcode and softcore servers.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    i see alot of talk about this penalty or that, but i really dont see many actually wanting some choice in the matter from within the game.

    any game that touts "sandbox" should offer up alot more choice than your typical themepark.

    there are lots of ways to introduce choice and options.

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by rungard

    i see alot of talk about this penalty or that, but i really dont see many actually wanting some choice in the matter from within the game.

    any game that touts "sandbox" should offer up alot more choice than your typical themepark.

    there are lots of ways to introduce choice and options.

    The choice is: you don't pick the server that has the harsher penaltys it's simple really.

    image
  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    I was red player in UO, I have a pirate alt in EVE and a Trader alt, GOD FORBID I can't have fun in a new released game to feed my MMO addiction.

    Is it somekind of crime to enjoy different kind of games in your book?, Can't I do some DE and kill some champs in GW2 and later same evening pod a few players in EVE?, It that something bad in your book, can I only be labled  Gw2 fanboi and totally disregard what other games I have played and playing?

    Besides didn't you also played GW2?

     

    Yeah i do play GW2 and that is why you won't see me going around pointing fingers and shifting blames on others for current scene of casual themepark MMOS. If i want to do that i will first put my money where my mouth is and stop supporting casual games.

     

     

    Not sure how long you have been playing MMOs but I guess 4-5 years.

    I've been playing since 1996 and I've seen the trend, I've seen posts from the guy I quouted for many years, not often 10 years ago, they tended to pop up more often for the past 6 years.

    So yeah I point fingers beacuse I've seen the trend first handed from trammel to now.

    Ultima was my first MMOS. And for someone who has been playing games since 1996 andf longing for a MMO which is not casual freindly devoid of harsh death penalities, not like you didn't have your cup brimming with those and yet you go ahead buy GW2 and white knight for it on daily basis.

    But God forbid that someone else doesn't want harsher death penalities in EQ next and you point fingers at him . Sorry bro but you are as guilty.

    If you were really miffed by posts like these for last 6 years you wouldn't have spent 50 bucks on another ultra casual themepark MMO..but you did it anyways knowing very well that you are supporting the games which are devoid of harsher death penalities.  So please quit with double standards already.

     

    The thing is with EQ next is that It's still in development and what do we get on these boards with this thread, people are allready asking for easymode, with EQnext we have an opportunity to get back to oldschool feeling again.

    And one more question is it forbidden for the likes of me to play other MMOs that is not labled hardcore while waiting for a game that's hopefully going back to oldschool?

    You keep bringing that shit up over and over and really I don't se the logic behind that, It's like I'm eating a Taco Bell 6 times a week and Mc Donalds 1 times a week and suddenly I'm a Mc Donald Fanboiimage

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by rungard

    i see alot of talk about this penalty or that, but i really dont see many actually wanting some choice in the matter from within the game.

    any game that touts "sandbox" should offer up alot more choice than your typical themepark.

    there are lots of ways to introduce choice and options.

    The choice is: you don't pick the server that has the harsher penaltys it's simple really.

     You mean you hope.

    I see very different things on the horizon, where every game system has depth and choice, and is more flexible for a broader range of players. Where systems dont have to be seperated by servers, and where coexistance is achievable of all play types through integration and not segregation.

    read all the hype, it all points to big changes in store for eq fans and mmo fans as well. Why would they rely on old worn out skeleton rules when they have the chance the chance to put some meat on the bones of every system.

    change may be hard, but it is also inevitable.

    image

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by baphamet
    Originally posted by Kenze
    I dont mind a more punishing death i dont like de-leveling but a corpse run and exp debt is fine.
    What I hope eqn does is slow leveling way, way, way down. Make it take months of not years for even the most hardcore, 12h a day players. I also hope they limit us to 1 character per server so that maintaining your rep counts.

    if they made leveling as slow as you suggest, i don't think they would need to limit one character per server because people wont just be re-rolling every month or two.

    your rep counted in EQ because of that reason and because you relied on other players to advance your character.

    IMO EQnext absolutely has to be a big time sink and it has to be group focused.

    they really just need to make it like EQ1 was in that regard and it will be fine.

    i think the sandbox elements if implemented right should be enough to keep the people who tear through content busy.


    well, i think they should limit to 1 character per server for a few reasons..
    promotes interdependency when you cant have 1 of each crafting class all on the same server, which would in turn make for a healthier economy. Also if youre limited to 1 per server your actions and what you say mean something when you cant hide behind "unknown" alts


    like i said, if the leveling takes you over a year to get to max level people are not going to have alts with all the different crafting trades (assuming they make leveling crafting trades equally as hard).

    i totally understand what you are saying but i just think that if it did take that long to get to max level, people couldn't hide behind alts unless they wanted to totally start over.

    it essentially serves the same purpose as just having one character.

    the reason i want more than one character as an option is i intend to play on a pvp server if its an option.

    that was the only reason to really make alts in classic EQ, other than just to break up the monotony.

    i just had too much time put into my main, re-rolling an alt like you could in wow just wasn't an option.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by rungard
    i see alot of talk about this penalty or that, but i really dont see many actually wanting some choice in the matter from within the game.any game that touts "sandbox" should offer up alot more choice than your typical themepark.there are lots of ways to introduce choice and options.

    there wont be a choice with a major game mechanic like death penalty, that would be kind of pointless anyways because if there is a choice people will always go with the lighter death penalty given the choice.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by rungard

     You mean you hope.

    I see very different things on the horizon, where every game system has depth and choice, and is more flexible for a broader range of players. Where systems dont have to be seperated by servers, and where coexistance is achievable of all play types through integration and not segregation.

    read all the hype, it all points to big changes in store for eq fans and mmo fans as well. Why would they rely on old worn out skeleton rules when they have the chance the chance to put some meat on the bones of every system.

    change may be hard, but it is also inevitable.

    image

    Man o' man do I hope you're right - this genre really needs some real innovation.

    The sandbox sub-genre has had even less innovation than the themepark genre!

    According to these boards, copying WoW is bad, but copying UO is good?

    I was there in UO for a long, long time a long, long time ago. It had magic, it was something special, but it wasn't some holy grail.

    UO also learned the leason of seperating PvE and PvP 12+ years ago and most of the fools on this site calling for things like FFA PvP and such still haven't. Even EvE, the great sandbox hope seperates PvE and PvP for the most part.

    Those rulesets may be fun for the small niche audience they attract, but anyone who thinks a major genre-defining release such as EQ Next is going to cater to the smallest possible audience is, quite frankly, an idiot.

  • jaiceafjaiceaf RamsteinPosts: 46Member

    Those rulesets may be fun for the small niche audience they attract, but anyone who thinks a major genre-defining release such as EQ Next is going to cater to the smallest possible audience is, quite frankly, an idiot.

     Thats funny you mention it, because as someone who has played EQ and Eq2 both since launch, these rulesets define the game, especially for veterans. in everquest and Everquest 2, the nagafen servers were for the hardcore pvp minded, and were always the busiest servers...(Outside of the RP server in original EQ). If you think EQ's playerbase and WoW's playerbase are the same....you are sadly mistaken. 

    To prove my point, pvp in WoW is a filler. EQ NEXT will "Designed from the beginning with PvP in mind." As quoted by John Smedley. Pvp was a main point of attraction in EQ from the beginning.  It was not an afterthought, it fits the lore, along with not being able to freely travel anywhere you wanted because of faction ties, and you are considered Kill on Sight to some NPCS, with very good illusions allowing you to pretend to be on the same faction as the NPC.

    These systems are why people began playing EQ in the first place, and why EQ is still going strong today! Death matters, immersion of character in the game world was seemless. If you don't think fans of the EVERQUEST franchines are going to line up in droves to do open world pvp with the granddaddy of themepark design, you are even more sadly mistaken sir.

    I cannot wait to do a corpse run, games are too easy these days....sure they are pretty, but where is the substance to keep all you carebears playing? You guys run from game to game complaining it doesn't have what you want, and then attempt to turn existing franchises into a bastardized version of your "ideal" game. 

    Don't want meaningful depth, gameplay mechanics....play GW2. I tried it out thinking I would find a challenge similar to Everquest. NEXT! It doesn't hold a torch to the world of Norrath.

    My Epic Cleric from vanilla EQ loved nothing more than standing outside various open dungeons offering 90% experience ressurections for a plat. If I was feeling generous, I would throw in Aegolism shield buff as well (which costs materials to cast, which means $$$). Druids and wizzies made money porting people around. Necros could put people's corpse into a box and bring it them! Or even summon their corpse! COULD YOU IMAGINE THE INTERACTION BETWEEN PLAYERS IN GAMES TODAY IF THESE SYSTEMS WERE IN PLACE? 

     

    You are right sir, I love EQ still. I must be an idiot. What game are you playing? 

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Tamanous
    Most people have pride. A death penalty has very little to do with though. Read my post previously. 
    Basically a death penalty plays two roles: 

    No, a harsh death penalty plays 1 role:


    1. Keep you paying. If the experience you lost amounted to a weeks worth of time then thats great. Thats another week you pay to play the game. You could probably add up all the time you lost due to experience loss and come up with atleast a month. Thats a full a monthly fee payment to just gain back what you lost because of the death penalty.

    The whole "Virtual world immersion" thing is just to get players to think a harsh death penalty is making the game better when its actually just all about money.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by jaiceaf

    These systems are why people began playing EQ in the first place, and why EQ is still going strong today! Death matters, immersion of character in the game world was seemless. If you don't think fans of the EVERQUEST franchines are going to line up in droves to do open world pvp with the granddaddy of themepark design, you are even more sadly mistaken sir.

    Nope. The reason people play EQ was because there weren't many choices. If WOW was available then, I wouldn't be playing EQ for a year.

    Going strong? It peaked at what? 500k?

    Personally, if the new EQ is pvp centric with open world pvp, i will pass .. even if it is F2P.

     

  • Damage99Damage99 Upstate, NYPosts: 173Member Uncommon
    Create a hardcore ruleset server which employs a few mechanics reminicent of the old days.  As long as it were planned in the design the development for such a server would be minimal.
  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by jaiceaf

    These systems are why people began playing EQ in the first place, and why EQ is still going strong today! Death matters, immersion of character in the game world was seemless. If you don't think fans of the EVERQUEST franchines are going to line up in droves to do open world pvp with the granddaddy of themepark design, you are even more sadly mistaken sir.

    Nope. The reason people play EQ was because there weren't many choices. If WOW was available then, I wouldn't be playing EQ for a year.

    Going strong? It peaked at what? 500k?

    Personally, if the new EQ is pvp centric with open world pvp, i will pass .. even if it is F2P.

    Yeah if EQ doesn't have PvP servers vs. PvE servers, I won't touch it.

    I loved having toons on Atlantic and Seige Perilous in UO - gave me choices. Even on Atlantic choosing to spend time in Trammel or Felucca.

    I loved the flagging system in SWG - I could go active when I wanted to PvP.

    I think PvP in MMOs is an abomination. It's never been done right, rarely been done well.

    Just scrap the whole damn thing IMO for EQN and focus on innovation in PvE.

  • HEKKRAHEKKRA DelftPosts: 80Member Uncommon
    EQ with Lineage II combined = Epic game of proportion.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by jaiceaf

    These systems are why people began playing EQ in the first place, and why EQ is still going strong today! Death matters, immersion of character in the game world was seemless. If you don't think fans of the EVERQUEST franchines are going to line up in droves to do open world pvp with the granddaddy of themepark design, you are even more sadly mistaken sir.

    Nope. The reason people play EQ was because there weren't many choices. If WOW was available then, I wouldn't be playing EQ for a year.

    Going strong? It peaked at what? 500k?

    Personally, if the new EQ is pvp centric with open world pvp, i will pass .. even if it is F2P.

    Yep.  People basically had an early choice of EQ(99), UO(97), AC(99) or Lineage(98).  AO, DAoC, and Runescape came a couple years later along with others, and that's when choices started happening.  WoW didn't come along until around 5 years later.  By that time people had a lot of choice.  If EQ was that great WoW wouldn't have pulled the rug out from under it.

     

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon

    EQ was not created with pvp in mind, that is ridiculous lol

  • KhebelnKhebeln BelfastPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by jaiceaf

    These systems are why people began playing EQ in the first place, and why EQ is still going strong today! Death matters, immersion of character in the game world was seemless. If you don't think fans of the EVERQUEST franchines are going to line up in droves to do open world pvp with the granddaddy of themepark design, you are even more sadly mistaken sir.

    Nope. The reason people play EQ was because there weren't many choices. If WOW was available then, I wouldn't be playing EQ for a year.

    Going strong? It peaked at what? 500k?

    Personally, if the new EQ is pvp centric with open world pvp, i will pass .. even if it is F2P.

    Yep.  People basically had an early choice of EQ(99), UO(97), AC(99) or Lineage(98).  AO, DAoC, and Runescape came a couple years later along with others, and that's when choices started happening.  WoW didn't come along until around 5 years later.  By that time people had a lot of choice.  If EQ was that great WoW wouldn't have pulled the rug out from under it.

     

    What he said :)

    I played mmos since 1996, all those games had their charm when they where still fresh. Thing is you have games like that on the market, new games, but not many ppl knows about them or even plays them due to them being to harsh. In the end that means game dont makes money and becomes a niche game or dies out. In other words not enough fans of that kind of gameplay.

    On the other had whenever i hear harsh death penalities i smell full pvp loot trolls. I dont mind very harsh death penalities, but if im forced to loose any of my hard earned loot i will quit the game. Some ppl see this as neccesary rush for them to feel anything. For me its only anoyment, and yet another grieefieng tool. Even more so today than 15 years ago.

    Today there are to many imature players (mentaly imature) that abuse those systems destroying the idea that would work in theory and worked to an extent in the past. But no more. Its very self destructing behaviour that drives potential new players for already strugling type of gameplay away. In the end that means less companies interested in making those kind of games, and less players interested in playing them.

    We have to remember that majority of players (make that easily 95%) dont even read this website, yet alone posts and whines here.

    I can guarantee that there wont be any full loot in EqNext, as it would simply be a marketing shoot in the foot type of situation. No big self respecting company will make that move this days.

    Only new games like that that we can expect are either self funded or small companies, eventualy kickstarter.

    Right now you have several games with very harsh death penalities be it Eve, Darkfall, Mortal Online or even UO. There are far more than just those few, but like i said majority of them are a niche games due to harsh mechanics.

    image
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  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by jaiceaf These systems are why people began playing EQ in the first place, and why EQ is still going strong today! Death matters, immersion of character in the game world was seemless. If you don't think fans of the EVERQUEST franchines are going to line up in droves to do open world pvp with the granddaddy of themepark design, you are even more sadly mistaken sir.
    Nope. The reason people play EQ was because there weren't many choices. If WOW was available then, I wouldn't be playing EQ for a year. Going strong? It peaked at what? 500k? Personally, if the new EQ is pvp centric with open world pvp, i will pass .. even if it is F2P.
    Yep.  People basically had an early choice of EQ(99), UO(97), AC(99) or Lineage(98).  AO, DAoC, and Runescape came a couple years later along with others, and that's when choices started happening.  WoW didn't come along until around 5 years later.  By that time people had a lot of choice.  If EQ was that great WoW wouldn't have pulled the rug out from under it.

     


    before wow the entire mmo community was much different and not main stream like it is now and EQ was the top dog (here in the states at least).

    people played it for so long much like the reason people still play wow, because of their friends and guild mates that also still play.


  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,310Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jaiceaf

    Those rulesets may be fun for the small niche audience they attract, but anyone who thinks a major genre-defining release such as EQ Next is going to cater to the smallest possible audience is, quite frankly, an idiot.

     Thats funny you mention it, because as someone who has played EQ and Eq2 both since launch, these rulesets define the game, especially for veterans. in everquest and Everquest 2, the nagafen servers were for the hardcore pvp minded, and were always the busiest servers...(Outside of the RP server in original EQ). If you think EQ's playerbase and WoW's playerbase are the same....you are sadly mistaken. 

    To prove my point, pvp in WoW is a filler. EQ NEXT will "Designed from the beginning with PvP in mind." As quoted by John Smedley. Pvp was a main point of attraction in EQ from the beginning.  It was not an afterthought, it fits the lore, along with not being able to freely travel anywhere you wanted because of faction ties, and you are considered Kill on Sight to some NPCS, with very good illusions allowing you to pretend to be on the same faction as the NPC.

    These systems are why people began playing EQ in the first place, and why EQ is still going strong today! Death matters, immersion of character in the game world was seemless. If you don't think fans of the EVERQUEST franchines are going to line up in droves to do open world pvp with the granddaddy of themepark design, you are even more sadly mistaken sir.

    I cannot wait to do a corpse run, games are too easy these days....sure they are pretty, but where is the substance to keep all you carebears playing? You guys run from game to game complaining it doesn't have what you want, and then attempt to turn existing franchises into a bastardized version of your "ideal" game. 

    Don't want meaningful depth, gameplay mechanics....play GW2. I tried it out thinking I would find a challenge similar to Everquest. NEXT! It doesn't hold a torch to the world of Norrath.

    My Epic Cleric from vanilla EQ loved nothing more than standing outside various open dungeons offering 90% experience ressurections for a plat. If I was feeling generous, I would throw in Aegolism shield buff as well (which costs materials to cast, which means $$$). Druids and wizzies made money porting people around. Necros could put people's corpse into a box and bring it them! Or even summon their corpse! COULD YOU IMAGINE THE INTERACTION BETWEEN PLAYERS IN GAMES TODAY IF THESE SYSTEMS WERE IN PLACE? 

     

    You are right sir, I love EQ still. I must be an idiot. What game are you playing? 

     Pvp was never a big part of EQ, ever.

    There were what 4 pvp servers out of 70?  and those were the lowest populated servers out of all of them.  World pvp was just not important to EQ.

    And people are going to different games because they have been playing the same systems for 13 years now.  EQ was just the first so some, not all or a lot, stayed with it longer.  If EQ offered the same thing it had in the beginning today with upgraded graphics it would do the exact same thing.  Again because people have been there and done that.

    Which is why smedley wants to do something different.  He also knows people have been playing the same game for 13 years.  Offering EQ with the same systems as before or wow today will end up with the same cycle, boom and bust.

    People new to gaming today that haven't played the games for the last +decade would find the systems just as engaging with just as much depth.

    Me personally I feel there is no real difference in terms of depth.  They are just different games but one is not more deep, more challenging or more rewarding. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Homitu

    I like a death penalty that makes me shout out obscenities when I die and perhaps inhibits my achieving an immediate goal.  

    I don't like a death penalty that discourages me from exploring dangerous territory or trying new adventurous things.  

    I like your perspective.  I don't want to shout out obscenities, but I would want it to make me wish I had played smarter or bugged my friend a little more to come with me.

    I definitely agree with your second paragraph though.  Obstacles should require a tactics change not discourage exploration or risk taking.

    +1  Agree here as well..now to find that balance  :)

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by rungard
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by rungard

    i see alot of talk about this penalty or that, but i really dont see many actually wanting some choice in the matter from within the game.

    any game that touts "sandbox" should offer up alot more choice than your typical themepark.

    there are lots of ways to introduce choice and options.

    The choice is: you don't pick the server that has the harsher penaltys it's simple really.

     You mean you hope.

    I see very different things on the horizon, where every game system has depth and choice, and is more flexible for a broader range of players. Where systems dont have to be seperated by servers, and where coexistance is achievable of all play types through integration and not segregation.

    read all the hype, it all points to big changes in store for eq fans and mmo fans as well. Why would they rely on old worn out skeleton rules when they have the chance the chance to put some meat on the bones of every system.

    change may be hard, but it is also inevitable.

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    Well i going by what Smed said,EQNEXT could have a hardcore server, that tells me that the game will have server choices. Some of those old rules still work great in some MMOs.

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  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Ill say it again. IMO EQNext will be PVE centric with an up to date PVP system but no why in hell will PVP be leading the way where the devs are concerned.

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  • KhebelnKhebeln BelfastPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    Im all for special servers, helps to keep the comunity organized and happy.

    image
    (Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Isn't it strange how ideas of "great game design" are set firmly by the first game they enjoyed playing, and then never change?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • KhebelnKhebeln BelfastPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Ill say it again. IMO EQNext will be PVE centric with an up to date PVP system but no why in hell will PVP be leading the way where the devs are concerned.

    Yup, whenever you think about eq you think about pve. And its fine. Thats the way it should be. You cant be everything for everyone at the same time.

    image
    (Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2

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