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Originally posted by FrodoFragins Unfortunately, Rift isn't nearly a big enough success to change the industry. People will just say, people would rather play in an IP they love than a new IP with a much more polished product.
And if companies come to this conclusion, than they will fail their next project.
Rift not making it big had *nothing* to do with IP. Everquest was an original IP. While GW2 was the first true MMO under the Guild Wars name, the first one still built up a very strong foundation off of an original IP. EvE was an original IP.
I think the biggest lesson to learn is size matters. Tiny game worlds dont cut it.
Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by DonY81 Is it me or do you think Rift could potentially be a slow starter in terms of popularity. Im sure WOW didnt start off with 10+ mill subscribers but look where it is today. All i hear people saying about Trion is how well they implement content and how fast. On top of that ive heard some big things with the new xpac much larger world.
WoW grew constantly for years and years. Rift declined for its first 18 months. They put out a lot of patches, and the housing they are adding will help, but i have a feeling neglecting the 1-50 world size is going to hurt their chances of bringing people back.
I could see Rift doing what EQ2 did, decline for the first 2 years then have a nice resurgance for a few years due to quality expansions and game improvements, but ultimately i dont think Rift is going to ever get big. There are just better games on the market (for most people) and releasing a lot of content only goes so far when people prefer other games' content instead.
Keep in mind if Rift can get 250-300k people for a few years (I think it will) its still a successful game. But it wont be the next game to top 400k consistently
i agree with this but for another reason..when wow came out there were'nt that many mmo's on the go..look at the mmo scene now..there are literally thousand all trying to grab a slice of the action.populations are so spread out over other games that no game now will ever have 10 million subs again..i may be wrong but i dont think so.
part of the problem these days is that people have been playing the same mmo's for yrs.take wow for instance or lotro.people have invested so much time playing these games they are reluctant to go anywhere else or commit full time to another game.yes they try something else but eventually they realise its more of the same and hop back to what they know best..thats my opinion anyways.
Originally posted by wrightstuf 10 abilities in 1 button macro spam....err, i'll pass. thx
Nope. They killed the all-in-one macros with Storm Legion.
If this is your biggest complaint a lot of that has changed for a lot of classes.
Originally posted by jensea Originally posted by wrightstuf 10 abilities in 1 button macro spam....err, i'll pass. thx
The top MM dps spec can be played with 2 macros and still stay within 2% of the optimal dps without macros. This was tested in SL as well.
To be specific, they didn't kill the all-in-one macros - they redesigned each soul to make it less of a requirement to put 20 abilities in one macro because of action bar real estate. Of course, certain souls are easier to macro than others. Shaman used to be a one button wonder but now all you need is a macro with all your non-Physical abilities and one with your Physical abilities (and still do within 5% DPS - make Jolt a separate bind for more dps).
Originally posted by CaerusX I feel like Trion needs to embrace f2p with Rift.
I completely disagree... While I don't actively play Rift because I'm pretty burned out on MMORPGs at the moment, I am still subbed and it is the ONLY game IMO that is worth the sub due to having a great development team and the quickest content updates of any other game.
Going F2P would break this system and the game... The game would have to be changed to add microtransactions which IMO would ruin an already established game. F2P is only necessary if the game's subs are hurting and is used as a last ditch effort to keep/maintain their players in hopes of seeing growth. Rift's subs aren't hurting and the game is thriving in spite of what people may say. Why try to fix something that isn't broken?
Originally posted by tkoreaper Originally posted by CaerusX I feel like Trion needs to embrace f2p with Rift.
1. What evidence is there that ts 'thriving'? How could one possibly believe the game has more than 200k subs at this point in time? In less than two years they have shut down 85% of their NA servers.
2. There are already microtransactions in Rift. Hell they even added an in game store to make it easier to add more. I think they would go the increased microtransaction route as opposed to a freemium route, especially with housing being introduced, good potential for non-essential mts. plus theres always cosmetics. None of this stuff is bad as long as it goes to game development and not pocket lining.
Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by tkoreaper Originally posted by CaerusX I feel like Trion needs to embrace f2p with Rift.
Due to server technology advances each server can now hold more players overall therefore even if they removed servers they also announced that each server now has a massive increase capacity load.
We really still have no informed information on what the new capacity load is now. Therefore you cannot clearly say that its going good or bad unless you have some kind of inside information on this.
Rift does need to go f2p, LOTRO's transition gave it a huge second-wind and burst of popularity. F2P just draws a ton of attention, and many whom are drawn go on to subscribe.
It just leaves me flabbergasted that they're denying all of this money for some strange and mystery reason.
With that said, there is NO way rift doesn't go f2p by next years end. It will just leave me utterly dumbfounded. Seriously with all the high-quality F2P options that will be out there it just doesn't make sense for a lesser mmo not to go that route. Unless they hate money of course.
WoW kept growing. By the time Blizzard released their first expansion, the game had millions of subscribers, all of those in NA/EU (don't think the game was released in Asia at that time). The game was a massive success right from the start. It had a very poor launch but people still kept playing because the game itself was incredibly addicting and fun.
But there was one thing which WoW had which Rift will never have. Its IP. There were so many WC3 fans who switched over to WoW. As a WC fan, for me it was just amazing to explore those lands which we've seen/read about in the RTS games. With rift and I never really managed to connect with the world which is when I usually stop playing.
However, the dedication of Trion is commendable. In my opinion they are one of the very few developers that are giving enough back for the sub fee.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by sancher36 Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by tkoreaper Originally posted by CaerusX I feel like Trion needs to embrace f2p with Rift.
Actually, there was a post by Elrar a while back that stated that the servers had at least doubled in capacity. I remember coming across the subject when browsing through MMO-Champion.
Edit: Ah! I found the original post!
Originally posted by Iechinok Originally posted by sancher36 Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by tkoreaper Originally posted by CaerusX I feel like Trion needs to embrace f2p with Rift.
I stand corrected, although the use of the word 'effectively' is odd there. Did it double or not? What is the effectively for?
That said, there were only 6 or 7 truly active servers and a server merge was long overdue, I figured they wer eholding off to see what the SL influx was now. If they are indeed doubled than there are basically 6 low capacity (by the new standards) servers and 2 medium (wolfsbane, faeblight) waiting for the SL influx.
Originally posted by fivoroth But there was one thing which WoW had which Rift will never have. Its IP. There were so many WC3 fans who switched over to WoW. As a WC fan, for me it was just amazing to explore those lands which we've seen/read about in the RTS games. With rift and I never really managed to connect with the world which is when I usually stop playing.
An existing IP gives a developer a head start and some extra initial subscribers,in the case of Warcraft or Star Wars, a lot of initial subscribers.
Your italicized part has little to do with the fact Rift isnt an existing IP. You tried it anyway. Its just not, to you, an interesting IP.
Games do not need existing IPs. Everquest is the obvious example.
And as for the reverse, when I first stepped into Azeroth I knew nothing of the IP. I had no clue who Thrall was. But I connected with the world in a big way.
I always thought Rift's original marketing sogan was one of the worst slogans in MMO history. EQ for years used 'You're in our world now'. That was a brilliant slogan, its saying 'we created this world that is going to suck you in'. Rift's slogan? 'You're not in Azeroth anymore'. What does that say about the game? 'We're not WoW'? Well I hope not, but you turned out to be close enough. If Im not in Azeroth, where am I? Oh, I'm someplace nowhere near as interesting as Azeroth. I guess 'we created this pretty but generic game for you to play' didnt hit it off with the test markket.
Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by fivoroth
I despise people who know nothing about marketing but have a self proclaimed opinion about everything to do with marketing. Firstly, the developers and marketing team are completely different people. In fact, the marketing is probably done by a seperate company altogether, it's called outsourcing. Second, Rift's launch slogan worked perfectly. You wanna know why? Because people like YOU are still talking about it. That is perfect, PERFECT, marketing. It made some people laugh and it pissed some people off, either way everyone had something to say about it; the word got around.
Sadly their latest marketing attempts havn't been anywhere near as clever. The save a panda thing was pretty good though.
Originally posted by Vannor Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by fivoroth
1. Regardlless of who comes up with the idea, I find it impossible to believe that Trion didnt approve it before it went out. So even if trion didnt come up with it, they still agreed that it was their best bet.
2. Its remembered because it made Rift look bad. People remember the irony of it. Perfect marketing doesnt conjure up negative impressions about the product. And really, most people just laughed at it and moved on. It wasnt edgy or contraversial, just kind of dumb, especially since it turned out to be a pretty blatant WoW clone at launch. But hey, perfect marketing should emphasize your flaws, right?
Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by Vannor Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by fivoroth
They targeted WoW players so they would do exactly what you are doing. Well done, you are a prime unwitting victim of their genious marketing technique. Thanks to you lot, everyone who has heard of WoW has also heard of Rift.. and it cost very little. They played on the flaws in WoW's community to increase the awareness of their own game for free, perfect.
Originally posted by Vannor Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by Vannor Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by fivoroth
Um, Im not posting in a WoW forum, am I? Im posting in a RIFT forum. Everyone that visits MMORPG.com is well aware of Rift. So how does me posting in a Rift forum mean everyone that plays WoW knows about Rift? But yes, Im suuuure that slogan caused more awareness than ads on mmo-champion or Rift's presence on curse (THAT is free advertising right there)
I think you are under some delusion that the WoW community cared. They didn't. Of all the negative things you can say about the WoW community they do have one big positive compared to other games: they dont obsess over games they arent playing.
And I'm sure Trion knows this. No, this ad campaign was focused towards people that don't like WoW, or grew tired of it. And yes, it got some of those people to try their game. But it already put the WoW comparison in their heads, so they are going to scream WoW-clone when so much was so similar. So if they didn't like WoW, or grew tired of it, why would they want to play a WoW-clone?
And this is why its bad advertising: It was targeting people that wanted something different from another product, yet offering something extremely similar to that product. It's like showing an advertisement of a movie theater playng Die Hard 6, Rambo 7, and Terminator 10 and having someone say 'man, I sure wish there was another option' and then flashing THE EXPENDABLES on the screen. Someone that doesnt want to see a die hard sequel is going to want to see Expendables? Not likely. And while it will trick some people into the door, negative word of mouth will spread and it will hurt future showings. And forget about Expendables II, you just turned off a lot of people no matter how good expendables II may be.
Clicky for Rift trial
I don't think F2P would fit RIFT best. I don't think it's a horrible idea, but I think B2P would fit it better. Trion would profit up front and could still make additional revenue from their micro-transactions (the mounts and CE upgrades). I think they could be a lot more profitible from the volume of sales than they are now.
Originally posted by Torvaldr ...
I don't see why they should break their monetary model, especially considering that they are profitable enough not only to develop for Rift, but for two more games apparently. The B2P model worked for GW2, because the game was built to be a short term entertainment, a sort of secondary mmorpg. Rift was build to be a primary mmorpg, which is what it is for its subscribers.
I don't understand why people try to change aspects of the games that work. In games like LOTRO for example, it was obviously that something wasn't working and the change helped. Why would Rift change the monetary model though? Why EVE do it (another successful subscription based game). If they had issues then I would understand, but changing the model changes the gameplay aspects as well.
Originally posted by Torvaldr I don't think F2P would fit RIFT best. I don't think it's a horrible idea, but I think B2P would fit it better. Trion would profit up front and could still make additional revenue from their micro-transactions (the mounts and CE upgrades). I think they could be a lot more profitible from the volume of sales than they are now.
B2P only works if you can get massive box sales. A large part of MMO costs are fixed (in theory salaries should be a fixed cost). While there are some incremental costs due to bandwidth and cs team and such, the bulk of your costs are fixed. So a huge amount of boxescould mean you have your fixed costs covered til next expansion, as well as a big chunk of the variable costs and have to make less per player.
Originally posted by Xasapis Originally posted by Torvaldr ...
LOTRO had more subscribers when it went f2p than Rift has now. LOTRO was around 250k when it made the transition.
And they arent developing two more games on Rift's revenue. They have raised nearly 200 million in capital.
I am baffled how people think at this point that Rift is magically doing great as the NA servers drop from 56 to 8 in less than 2 years.
What's the measure of success? WoW numbers? Or actually be profitable, have a team that constantly develops for the game and probably the most important of all as far as mmorpgs go although it is subjective, the feeling that the game has a future, as opposed to slowly dying.
Take SW:TOR for example as an opposite example, so to speak. SW:TOR still has a bigger following than Rift. Which of the two has a future though, looking at them at this point in time?
Originally posted by Xasapis What's the measure of success? WoW numbers? Or actually be profitable, have a team that constantly develops for the game and probably the most important of all as far as mmorpgs go although it is subjective, the feeling that the game has a future, as opposed to slowly dying. Take SW:TOR for example as an opposite example, so to speak. SW:TOR still has a bigger following than Rift. Which of the two has a future though, looking at them at this point in time?
We don't know enough about the populations of either. If i had to guess they will both still be around in 5 years.
I really think Rift isnt in the shape many people think it is, and that A LOT is banking on Storm Legion. And Storm legion is great-for fans of Rift. But it needs to grow Rift's fan base and I am not sure if it will do that. No one is sure. But I think that the worst case is probably Rift survives but has to alter revenue models.
And i dont see SWTOR falling off the face of the earth either. In fact, that game has the most potential of any to turn it around. People still want to play in the Star Wars unverse so if they can fix things up a bit there is hope. Its not like its a VG-esque technical disaster.
Rift rift and rift, all the serious rift players that I know buy the anual sub, so they got a income boost a little while back, some even bought the anual and then still dit other buys, some of my friends subs only run out in 2014.
So from a current player base, they are very well recieved and supported.
I feel like they are the best dev team out there currently in the market, they listen 2 their player base.
For that fact alone they should grow, since no word is better than the word of mouth.
Anyway that be my 2cents, with regards to the xpack not focusing on Pvp, I call BS, why??! Because Conquest was the big Pvp update, and they brought that out before the xpack, because they felt the ppl playing deserved it, so how can you judge them on not providing a large pvp update with the xpack, when they made a hudge one before it?
Anyhow, for me this games pvp just rocks !!! :P
Ok go ahead and shred my body