Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

EQ next!! who want punishing death?

1356711

Comments

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    rLineage today still makes more and has more players than EQ ever has or will.  It's one of the few games that has lasted 15 and is still subscription based.

    Lineage doesn't even exist anymore in the West, it was shut down. NCsoft said it wasn't successful anymore, so far for your lasting 15 years.

    I personally know Japanese and Korean players playing EQ to this day, in fact there are still whole japanese guilds in EQ.

  • Greymantle4Greymantle4 Posts: 802Member Uncommon
    Believe it or not I met my wife doing a corpse run in EQ. I did a summon corpse for her and the rest is history. :)
  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,536Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ice-vortex

    Not really.

     

    The writeup What's in a Death Penalty? is an interesting take on the death penalty.

    Interesting article, but too much of a generalization on how people react to harsher death penalties.

    That's one of the major issues of people writing an explanatory article like that... they go off their own experiences and perceptions, which greatly limits the scope of the topic, and skews their conclusions.

    FFXI and Lineage 2 both have/had harsh death penalties, and I thought it made exploration and gameplay more interesting, exciting and, of course, challenging. It didn't discourage me at all. One of my favorite pastimes is to go into an area well beyond my level or capability and see how far I could get without dying; test my knowledge of mob aggro types and range and my ability to weave safely around them.

    I knew the penalty for dying in either game was pretty steep in terms of xp and possible level loss... but that made it more interesting. XP loss sucked but it was part of the game and it was only temporary. In the context of a game I had already spent hundreds of hours in, and would no doubt spend many, many more... having to gain some xp back was never a big deal to me. To this day, I don't understand why people freak out about it. It's xp. You'll get it back. What's the hurry?

    Regarding harsh penalties resulting in people "only doing what they know". That's a pretty weak argument the article raises, considering people behave exactly the same way in MMOs with hardly any penalty. They stick to proven strategies, they follow quest walk-throughs and review raid tactic videos. They use handy-dandy UI add-ons to reduce the chance of failure in a raid. The presence or absence of a harsher death penalty has nothing to do with that.

     

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    How about making Harsh DP optional to people that like that sort of thing with no bonus gain from doing so?

    image

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,035Member Uncommon
    wut... EQ never even had 600k subs, let alone concurrency which they would never give out.  wow guys. fact check time.
  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    wut... EQ never even had 600k subs, let alone concurrency which they would never give out.  wow guys. fact check time.

     

    they sure did, around PoP-GoD they reached 600k concurrently, you used to be able to see server player count and SoE released figures, whoever made this first graph used those original figures

    what's more, SoE developers often said on the forum that their network reached those numbers when they talked about server mergers in relationship to server capacity

    it also matches up with the new 10 year video they released where they mention figures

    I wish I could find the old site, he had a reference to those numbers, another site took over the numbers, all of those data points were reliable, the only ones that weren't reliable were asian ones since they often gave internet cafe numbers

    Do you have any facts to prove 600k was not correct in spite of developers mentioning it?

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

    i want this game to be unforgiving like eq was as well, i don't care how many subs there are as long as my server is full.

    not everyone likes that style of MMO but there are plenty of other games that are easy to play already.

    for me EQ was the most rewarding MMORPG i have played to date.

    the harsh death penalties and harshness of the game is the reason why.

    when you accomplished something or got the item you were hunting hours (or sometime even days or weeks straight) for, it was very rewarding.

    unlike most newer MMO's where getting upgrades is never a huge deal and easy to do.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    wut... EQ never even had 600k subs, let alone concurrency which they would never give out.  wow guys. fact check time.

     

    they sure did, around PoP-GoD they reached 600k concurrently, you used to be able to see server player count and SoE released figures, whoever made this first graph used those original figures

    what's more, SoE developers often said on the forum that their network reached those numbers when they talked about server mergers in relationship to server capacity

    it also matches up with the new 10 year video they released where they mention figures

    I wish I could find the old site, he had a reference to those numbers, another site took over the numbers, all of those data points were reliable, the only ones that weren't reliable were asian ones since they often gave internet cafe numbers

    Do you have any facts to prove 600k was not correct in spite of developers mentioning it?

    Funny you should quote that graph as a source.  In 2009 - 2010 EQ had about 100k.  On that same site on another chart (the next higher population graph with WoW and Runescape) Lineage comes in just under a million at around 950k.  It used to be much higher.  People playing outside the west actually count.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Funny you should quote that graph as a source.  In 2009 - 2010 EQ had about 100k.  On that same site on another chart (the next higher population graph with WoW and Runescape) Lineage comes in just under a million at around 950k.  It used to be much higher.  People playing outside the west actually count.

    Read my post, like I said before, that is not the original post, the person who made the first few years of that graph is not the same person who made the numbers post 2009, someone took over those numbers when he stopped doing it, the original owner only referenced if he was reasonable sure the numbers are correct.

    In 2009 SoE didn't release subscription numbers anymore, nor did developers talk about numbers anymore, I assume because they weren't allowed anymore.

    Numbers from Asia, were often NOT correct, because of the issues with internet cafes which means you're unable to detect who the person is, it could be one person, it could be multiple people playing, internet cafe owned the game and accounts were often free as is the case in Asia usually, or owned by the cafe.

    (that's also why I don't take those numbers from Lineage serious, anyone could run into a cafe without paying for an account and hop onto a PC and play any game, including Lineage, internet cafe bought the games, not the players like in the West, does trying a game for 5 minutes make them a lineage player?)

    Does that clear things up now? Anyway, I'm not going to explain it any further because I don't want to sidetrack the theard.

    Don't want to believe EQ had 600k players even though developers said so then don't believe it, if that makes you happy more power to you, I really don't care either way.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Theocritus
          I like how EQ handled death in the old days....IT made you respect what was going on around you, and you had to learn how to play (often with others) to stay alive......I'm just not sure if 13 years later the player base would be able to handle it......I jsut dont see todays communities taking time to go help other players like they did with corpse runs in old EQ.

    I love the old days in EQ with the corpse runs, Was good risk vs reward, better loot/xp came from mobs deeper in the zone, but it was a little risker often you would test a group at a closer camp and if you handled that fine you would go deeper. Also helped the community aswell cause necros could summon your corpse, clerics,pallies,necros could rezz it for Xp return, and rogues stealth also helped alot in open zones they could drag your corpse to you and wizards and druids had evac spell which would be handy when things got tuff.

    Edit: forgot to mention about soul binding from other players aswell. So you respawn in the area you were hunting.

  • AodhanAodhan bundabergPosts: 47Member Common
    Totally agree bring back the death penalty amongst other things.
    A mix of EQ and Vanguard I cant wait,just hurry up all ready.
    Games today are a joke,Sadly I caved in and purchased guildwars 2 against my better judgment,lasted 3 weeks and I am bored with it already,back to vanguard again till something better comes out.
  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Columbus, OHPosts: 520Member

    What people always seem to forget about EQ 1 is the lack of overall deaths compared to pretty much every other game out there. You can allow for a big penalty if you're not dying every 5 seconds like WoW. In Classic EQ 1 you could go a whole week without dying once if you're very careful and have good judgement.

    So in short, yes I want xp penalties but i also want smart players to die ALOT less like, AKA no mobs with +300% movement speed or other nonsense that EQ1 never had.

  • RandomDownRandomDown Louisville, KYPosts: 145Member

    People say they want death penalties because there is no reason to bother trying to survive. Why isn't the incentive doing it well on the first try or not giving up mid fight? So what if you don't lose experience after you die or undergo significant item decay? I played EQ (a troll, but a warrior, so that helped offset the racial penalty) on release and loved Vanguard and hated how much they reduced the repair prices shortly after release (but that was the least of its issues). 

     

    What you're saying is its not worth the effort unless you're punished for not making the effort. I played TOR, WoW, RIft and all that jazz and even if dying had no noticeable penalty it still didn't mean giving up on a boss fight until the last man is down. The fact that you aren't willing to try because there is no penalty is worse than there not being a penalty at all. 

     

    Offtopic but the Equipment Expertise was one of the greatest ideas in Vanguard. So sad it got removed too.

  • FreezzoFreezzo EnschedePosts: 235Member
    I think harsher death penalties are a good thing, but they shouldn't be too hard. They're good because when someone goes hunting for some great gear in a hard area, the risk vs. reward becomes more balanced. Nowadays you plug into a raid group, enter the raid, get rewards with no risk at all. What longevity? If you try to get the good gear, fail on the first attempt, but succeed on the second, you get a nice reward (depending on the harshness of the penalty of course). That's why things like % of xp gained lost works combined with leveling curves. It's great in the earlier levels, when you're new to the game.

    "We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
    And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JimmyYO

    What people always seem to forget about EQ 1 is the lack of overall deaths compared to pretty much every other game out there. You can allow for a big penalty if you're not dying every 5 seconds like WoW. In Classic EQ 1 you could go a whole week without dying once if you're very careful and have good judgement.

    So in short, yes I want xp penalties but i also want smart players to die ALOT less like, AKA no mobs with +300% movement speed or other nonsense that EQ1 never had.

    Think my record was about 2 and ahalf months no deaths then i died 4 times in the same night in a new zone ive never been to : ) was fun adventuring into that zone though worth the deaths : )

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by augustgrace

    Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death.  But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.  

    Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.  

    I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work.  These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions.  I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.

     

    This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

    Sad world indeed.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by augustgrace

    Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death.  But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.  

    Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.  

    I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work.  These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions.  I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.

     

    This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

    Sad world indeed.

    Doesn't matter because he can play on a normal rule server. All the people saying no have a choice to avoid the hardcore rule server. 

    Smed knows that many of us who played EQ for years will be happy to go back to harsher rules. I play Vanguard which has quite a harsh death penalty compared to the likes  of GW2 and other kiddy MMOs.

    You lose XP and you have a tomb that you can go and collect. In a way you can down level even though the level you are stays the same you still have to make up that xp again.

    Your not hit as hard as EQ but you rewally don't want to die.

    There really wont be an issue.

     

    image
  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by augustgrace

    Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death.  But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.  

    Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.  

    I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work.  These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions.  I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.

     

    This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

    Sad world indeed.

    For someone who is die hard GW2 fan your whole post reeks of irony. You should be the last person to point fingers at any casual players in a topic called 'who wants punishing deaths'.

    The day you stop supporting and playing 'casual heaven' games like GW2, your words will have some weight.

     

     

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

    Sad world indeed.

    GW2 fan flaming a casual player for not wanting 'punishing death penalities'? 

    /faceplam

    Now i have seen everything that is to be seen on these forums. Oh God...lol

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by augustgrace

    Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death.  But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.  

    Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.  

    I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work.  These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions.  I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.

     

    This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

    Sad world indeed.

    For someone who is die hard GW2 fan your whole post reeks of irony. You should be the last person to point fingers at any casual players in a topic called 'who wants punishing deaths'.

    The day you stop supporting and playing 'casual heaven' games like GW2, your words will have some weight.

     

     

    +1

    image
  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

    Sad world indeed.

    GW2 fan flaming a casual player for not wanting 'punishing death penalities'? 

    /faceplam

    Now i have seen everything that is to be seen on these forums. Oh God...lol

    The problem i'm seeing is some of these die hard fans are forgetting what they have been saying for the last 2 months.

    image
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by madazz

    I miss being punished

    There's just so much...I...can't touch this.  Next topic!

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Well if death will be punishing in EQNext you can be sure that will be 'punish relief' in cash shop sooner or later.

    Anyway I just got here to read a bit abut people reaction to this idea. Personally don't care much one way or another other than what effect on other mmorpg's EQNext features might have as I won't be playing EXNext myself cause of busiess model.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    im gonna be honest in that if they choose a random "rule" for te sake of a rule, and ignore the lore of the game and provide absolutely no depth around the system (and this goes for all systems) then they are wasting their time.

    most people dont realize it but you create depth by expanding on base systems to provide lots of flexibility and options.

    dont make rules for the sake of having them. Make them tie into the lore.

     

    image

  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member

    bring back the corpse run says I!

    image

Sign In or Register to comment.