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We got enough Games. Give me a World.

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  • monstermmomonstermmo Glendale, CAPosts: 1,062Member

    I find Sandbox games boring and pointless. "Do what you want"? What exactly is there to do? walk around and collect wood if i "want" to? lol Yeah right, no, no that is not for me. I dont want to boot up a game and collect wood. 

    I love exploring, i love it, but i do want a goal and a goal in a game is not "do what you want" when theres no content that actually offers anything i want to do. 

    Games need direction otherwise theyre pointless and boring. Some people like pointless and boring thats cool, but i think most people do not enjoy pointless and boring.

    Most "do what you want" refers to open world PvP and collecting materials. While a more linear MMO or game offers both that and actual goals, a purpose.

     

    Kingdoms of Amalur is a perfect example of a linear but huge beautiful amazing world but still has ton of content and actual goals other than "do what you want." I hate seeing this "do what you want" when describing sandbox games because theres nothing to freakin do in them. Every single time i see that description im like ok these guys simply dont have content.

    The difference really in KoA is that you can do the quests if and when you want to, or just explore and kill which would probably end up in also fulfulling quests giving it more meaning.

     

    Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
    Join me on Raptr Steam Facebook Twitter Gameverse

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by apocoluster

     

      Disagree.  Give me somthing to relax with after a long day of work.  Sandbox games for me seem to be essentially a 2nd job. 

     

    Yeah, a guy I know played SWG when it started. He told me that one day he realized that it was like a second job that he wasn't getting paid for.

    Especially when he realized that he was becoming overwhelmed with orders and couldn't work fast enough to fulfill them.

    He later started EQ and that seemed a better fit.

    This is kind of silly, since there is no real pressure to get anything done in SWG unless you did it to yourself.    I managed to run one of the top Weapon shops on my server back in the day, including selling the stuff that was insane to manufacture such as krayt tissue weapons and rocket launchers, and I never felt like it was a second job.

    Sorry, but his issue was self-inflicted. 

    Totally, but in the end both he and I still felt like it was 2nd jobs..and that feeling still lingers hench my apprehension toward Sandy games. 

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by Thane

    you wanna know why? because people are cheaters, exploiters, destroyers. not crafters, explorers and gatherers.

    if they would build a free to roam world people would find a way to destroy it, so they could get the best stuff with the least work - as always.

    it's not as simple as you think, no matter how many words you use to describe it.

    Naturally, if you decide to let them take it, they will. That's the issue, people don't want to lose anything, but they don't have what it takes to keep everything. Then they want bunch of artifical barriers to protect them, and the vicious cycle of instancing and roller coaster rides begun.

     

    yeah cause nothing is more fun than a survival of the fittest, death sport,penal colony world filled with crafters and politicians...

    Exactly.

    You know what I like to do in Skyrim these days?

    Sneak around cities and towns, stealing whatever isn't chained down, and assassinating NPCs in their sleep (or in the case of guards, while they are walking lol.)

    You know what Skyrim Online would look like?

    Oh, jeeze. I just wanted to come to this town and bank - but the tellers are all dead. The guards are all dead. OK let's try another city... *gank* ouch I just got 1 shot from behind with no warning or chance to defend myself!

    OK fine... rez outside of town... there is a dungeon over there, let's go explore this cave shall we?

    Wow.. kind of empty in here... all the mobs are dead.. oh, look a massive end-room - and there are 37 other players in here waiting for the Named to respawn... *gank* damnit that assassin got me again wtf was he following me?

    OK let's get some revenge on that assassin - guildies, will you come help me kill this griefer?

    No? You're too busy decorating your house? And you're too busy ganking noobs in the starter zone? Didn't you get ganked in the starter zone a lot? Oh, you're getting revenge for how you were treated...

    I guess I'll just log off... or maybe I'll hop on my alt.

    Yay, a fresh new toon to play with! *gank* GD it dude I'm like level 1! WTF is wrong with you?

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by apocoluster

     

      Disagree.  Give me somthing to relax with after a long day of work.  Sandbox games for me seem to be essentially a 2nd job. 

     

    Yeah, a guy I know played SWG when it started. He told me that one day he realized that it was like a second job that he wasn't getting paid for.

    Especially when he realized that he was becoming overwhelmed with orders and couldn't work fast enough to fulfill them.

    He later started EQ and that seemed a better fit.

    This is kind of silly, since there is no real pressure to get anything done in SWG unless you did it to yourself.    I managed to run one of the top Weapon shops on my server back in the day, including selling the stuff that was insane to manufacture such as krayt tissue weapons and rocket launchers, and I never felt like it was a second job.

    Sorry, but his issue was self-inflicted. 

    Well, I wouldn't disagree but he took his crafting acumen to EQ and it appealed to him.

    My guess, as I've mentioned, is that there was nothing in SWG that appealed to him other than the crafting and apparently that made him feel like his game time was a second job.

    Apparently EQ's didn't. I can't speak any more on that as I've never played SWG (nor orginal EQ for that matter other than a few hours a few years ago)  and was just commenting on another person's feeling that sandbox games felt like a second job to him.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by Thane

     

     

     

    Exactly.

    You know what I like to do in Skyrim these days?

    Sneak around cities and towns, stealing whatever isn't chained down, and assassinating NPCs in their sleep (or in the case of guards, while they are walking lol.)

    You know what Skyrim Online would look like?

    Oh, jeeze. I just wanted to come to this town and bank - but the tellers are all dead. The guards are all dead. OK let's try another city... *gank* ouch I just got 1 shot from behind with no warning or chance to defend myself!

    OK fine... rez outside of town... there is a dungeon over there, let's go explore this cave shall we?

    Wow.. kind of empty in here... all the mobs are dead.. oh, look a massive end-room - and there are 37 other players in here waiting for the Named to respawn... *gank* damnit that assassin got me again wtf was he following me?

    OK let's get some revenge on that assassin - guildies, will you come help me kill this griefer?

    No? You're too busy decorating your house? And you're too busy ganking noobs in the starter zone? Didn't you get ganked in the starter zone a lot? Oh, you're getting revenge for how you were treated...

    I guess I'll just log off... or maybe I'll hop on my alt.

    Yay, a fresh new toon to play with! *gank* GD it dude I'm like level 1! WTF is wrong with you?

    nvm

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by apocoluster
       Disagree.  Give me games.  The real world is plenty enough Sandboxy for me.  I play games to get away from it.

    The whole "but the real world is a sandbox!" argument is ludicrous. Utterly ludicrous.

    There are thousands of games out there to "get away from it". This genre happens to be able to offer something other genres of games simply cannot, an online, massively multiplayer, persistent world. Sadly it's been wasted for the main part.

     

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Exactly.

    You know what I like to do in Skyrim these days?

    Sneak around cities and towns, stealing whatever isn't chained down, and assassinating NPCs in their sleep (or in the case of guards, while they are walking lol.)

    You know what Skyrim Online would look like?

    Oh, jeeze. I just wanted to come to this town and bank - but the tellers are all dead. The guards are all dead. OK let's try another city... *gank* ouch I just got 1 shot from behind with no warning or chance to defend myself!

    OK fine... rez outside of town... there is a dungeon over there, let's go explore this cave shall we?

    Wow.. kind of empty in here... all the mobs are dead.. oh, look a massive end-room - and there are 37 other players in here waiting for the Named to respawn... *gank* damnit that assassin got me again wtf was he following me?

    OK let's get some revenge on that assassin - guildies, will you come help me kill this griefer?

    No? You're too busy decorating your house? And you're too busy ganking noobs in the starter zone? Didn't you get ganked in the starter zone a lot? Oh, you're getting revenge for how you were treated...

    I guess I'll just log off... or maybe I'll hop on my alt.

    Yay, a fresh new toon to play with! *gank* GD it dude I'm like level 1! WTF is wrong with you?

    This was awesome... didn't remember evil Spock was this funny :)

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon

    Some good points here each way. Just want to add that yes, I think EVE is very close to what I describe - but it's set in space and too "clean" for my taste. A fantasy world with EVE's mechanics and solid client/server base. Yes, please :)

    That said, I think I'll resub to EVE for a month or too soon, as it's the only MMO out there that actually feels like a world.

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    Some good points here each way. Just want to add that yes, I think EVE is very close to what I describe - but it's set in space and too "clean" for my taste. A fantasy world with EVE's mechanics and solid client/server base. Yes, please :)

    That said, I think I'll resub to EVE for a month or too soon, as it's the only MMO out there that actually feels like a world.

    Have you given Perpetuum a try.. Eve with little ugly robots but progression over time kinda like Eve but different.  

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • NeherunNeherun St. MichelPosts: 278Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by Thane

    you wanna know why? because people are cheaters, exploiters, destroyers. not crafters, explorers and gatherers.

    if they would build a free to roam world people would find a way to destroy it, so they could get the best stuff with the least work - as always.

    it's not as simple as you think, no matter how many words you use to describe it.

    Naturally, if you decide to let them take it, they will. That's the issue, people don't want to lose anything, but they don't have what it takes to keep everything. Then they want bunch of artifical barriers to protect them, and the vicious cycle of instancing and roller coaster rides begun.

     

    yeah cause nothing is more fun than a survival of the fittest, death sport,penal colony world filled with crafters and politicians...

    Exactly.

    You know what I like to do in Skyrim these days?

    Sneak around cities and towns, stealing whatever isn't chained down, and assassinating NPCs in their sleep (or in the case of guards, while they are walking lol.)

    You know what Skyrim Online would look like?

    Oh, jeeze. I just wanted to come to this town and bank - but the tellers are all dead. The guards are all dead. OK let's try another city... *gank* ouch I just got 1 shot from behind with no warning or chance to defend myself!

    OK fine... rez outside of town... there is a dungeon over there, let's go explore this cave shall we?

    Wow.. kind of empty in here... all the mobs are dead.. oh, look a massive end-room - and there are 37 other players in here waiting for the Named to respawn... *gank* damnit that assassin got me again wtf was he following me?

    OK let's get some revenge on that assassin - guildies, will you come help me kill this griefer?

    No? You're too busy decorating your house? And you're too busy ganking noobs in the starter zone? Didn't you get ganked in the starter zone a lot? Oh, you're getting revenge for how you were treated...

    I guess I'll just log off... or maybe I'll hop on my alt.

    Yay, a fresh new toon to play with! *gank* GD it dude I'm like level 1! WTF is wrong with you?

     

    Seriously, if you think Sandboxes are like that, you are deluded  beyond cure.

     

    How about actually PLAYING one before assaulting us who believe its a good concept? What you described is nothing remotely close to a sandbox game.

     

    image

  • KenzeKenze Posts: 1,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Neherun

    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by Thane

    you wanna know why? because people are cheaters, exploiters, destroyers. not crafters, explorers and gatherers. if they would build a free to roam world people would find a way to destroy it, so they could get the best stuff with the least work - as always. it's not as simple as you think, no matter how many words you use to describe it.

    Naturally, if you decide to let them take it, they will. That's the issue, people don't want to lose anything, but they don't have what it takes to keep everything. Then they want bunch of artifical barriers to protect them, and the vicious cycle of instancing and roller coaster rides begun.

     

    yeah cause nothing is more fun than a survival of the fittest, death sport,penal colony world filled with crafters and politicians...

    Exactly.

    You know what I like to do in Skyrim these days?

    Sneak around cities and towns, stealing whatever isn't chained down, and assassinating NPCs in their sleep (or in the case of guards, while they are walking lol.)

    You know what Skyrim Online would look like?

    Oh, jeeze. I just wanted to come to this town and bank - but the tellers are all dead. The guards are all dead. OK let's try another city... *gank* ouch I just got 1 shot from behind with no warning or chance to defend myself!

    OK fine... rez outside of town... there is a dungeon over there, let's go explore this cave shall we?

    Wow.. kind of empty in here... all the mobs are dead.. oh, look a massive end-room - and there are 37 other players in here waiting for the Named to respawn... *gank* damnit that assassin got me again wtf was he following me?

    OK let's get some revenge on that assassin - guildies, will you come help me kill this griefer?

    No? You're too busy decorating your house? And you're too busy ganking noobs in the starter zone? Didn't you get ganked in the starter zone a lot? Oh, you're getting revenge for how you were treated...

    I guess I'll just log off... or maybe I'll hop on my alt.

    Yay, a fresh new toon to play with! *gank* GD it dude I'm like level 1! WTF is wrong with you?

     

    Seriously, if you think Sandboxes are like that, you are deluded  beyond cure.

     

    How about actually PLAYING one before assaulting us who believe its a good concept? What you described is nothing remotely close to a sandbox game.

     

     

    name 1 pure sandbox game that isnt a ffa pvp griefers wet dream

    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    —Lao-Tze

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by Thane

     

     

     

     

     

    Seriously, if you think Sandboxes are like that, you are deluded  beyond cure.

     

    How about actually PLAYING one before assaulting us who believe its a good concept? What you described is nothing remotely close to a sandbox game.

     

     

    name 1 pure sandbox game that isnt a ffa pvp griefers wet dream

    Xyson.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • ThaneUlfgarThaneUlfgar Akron, OHPosts: 283Member

    I was thinking the same thing when I was playing Skyrim last night.

     

    So I just play Skyrim, nothing compares.

     

    The only thing about making an MMO-skyrim, imo, would be balancing it. I think it would be a nightmare. Also I think griefers and douchebags could ruin it for everyone.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I'm not bothered if its sandbox or themepark (but not uber themepark like say swtor)

    I just want a quality game with a fully persistent world and no more bloody instancing.
  • KenzeKenze Posts: 1,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by muffins89

    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by Thane

     

     

     

     

     

    Seriously, if you think Sandboxes are like that, you are deluded  beyond cure.

     

    How about actually PLAYING one before assaulting us who believe its a good concept? What you described is nothing remotely close to a sandbox game.

     

     

    name 1 pure sandbox game that isnt a ffa pvp griefers wet dream

    Xyson.

     

    thats only because noone plays Xyson and if so many people want a sandbox why dont they play Xyson?

    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    —Lao-Tze

  • NeherunNeherun St. MichelPosts: 278Member
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by Thane

    you wanna know why? because people are cheaters, exploiters, destroyers. not crafters, explorers and gatherers.

    if they would build a free to roam world people would find a way to destroy it, so they could get the best stuff with the least work - as always.

    it's not as simple as you think, no matter how many words you use to describe it.

    Naturally, if you decide to let them take it, they will. That's the issue, people don't want to lose anything, but they don't have what it takes to keep everything. Then they want bunch of artifical barriers to protect them, and the vicious cycle of instancing and roller coaster rides begun.

     

    yeah cause nothing is more fun than a survival of the fittest, death sport,penal colony world filled with crafters and politicians...

    Exactly.

    You know what I like to do in Skyrim these days?

    Sneak around cities and towns, stealing whatever isn't chained down, and assassinating NPCs in their sleep (or in the case of guards, while they are walking lol.)

    You know what Skyrim Online would look like?

    Oh, jeeze. I just wanted to come to this town and bank - but the tellers are all dead. The guards are all dead. OK let's try another city... *gank* ouch I just got 1 shot from behind with no warning or chance to defend myself!

    OK fine... rez outside of town... there is a dungeon over there, let's go explore this cave shall we?

    Wow.. kind of empty in here... all the mobs are dead.. oh, look a massive end-room - and there are 37 other players in here waiting for the Named to respawn... *gank* damnit that assassin got me again wtf was he following me?

    OK let's get some revenge on that assassin - guildies, will you come help me kill this griefer?

    No? You're too busy decorating your house? And you're too busy ganking noobs in the starter zone? Didn't you get ganked in the starter zone a lot? Oh, you're getting revenge for how you were treated...

    I guess I'll just log off... or maybe I'll hop on my alt.

    Yay, a fresh new toon to play with! *gank* GD it dude I'm like level 1! WTF is wrong with you?

     

    Seriously, if you think Sandboxes are like that, you are deluded  beyond cure.

     

    How about actually PLAYING one before assaulting us who believe its a good concept? What you described is nothing remotely close to a sandbox game.

     

     

    name 1 pure sandbox game that isnt a ffa pvp griefers wet dream

     

    None, since getting killed in MMORPG against your own will isn't griefing. Its called freedom, that guy wanted you killed, so he killed you. The sad thing is, you were incapable of defending yourself, thus you got killed. Got the flip side of the coin? In turn, if he was incapable of killing you, he would be annoyed.

    You're not questioning FFA PvP, you are questioning the whole legitemacy of PvP altogether. We used to have an insult for such thinkers, which I am unfortunately incapable of using here, because its against the TOS.

     

     

    image

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    Agreed OP. We have enough theme parks, its time for a virtual world to play in.
    30
  • NeherunNeherun St. MichelPosts: 278Member
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by Thane

     

     

     

     

     

    Seriously, if you think Sandboxes are like that, you are deluded  beyond cure.

     

    How about actually PLAYING one before assaulting us who believe its a good concept? What you described is nothing remotely close to a sandbox game.

     

     

    name 1 pure sandbox game that isnt a ffa pvp griefers wet dream

    Xyson.

     

    thats only because noone plays Xyson and if so many people want a sandbox why dont they play Xyson?

     

    If you want a themepark, why don't you play an existing one?

    [mod edit]

     

    image

  • KenzeKenze Posts: 1,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Waybackwhen

    Agreed OP. We have enough theme parks, its time for a virtual world to play in.

     

    whats wrong with Xyson or Second Life? they both seem to offer what you guys are looking for. I think you sandboxer are just like us themeparkers.. we cant be satisfied.

    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    —Lao-Tze

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by apocoluster

     

    Why build all this world if its just going to get ignored for the most part by most of the players.   The players are doing what they want to do.  If every Themepark was deleted off every server right now..and replaced by open world player driven sandboxes your not going to have a new crop of sandbox players arrive...it will still just be you guys..the niche and the rest (well 99%) will just stop gaming.

    This post has it all ... Themer invective, doom prophecies, magic statistics, and a hypothetical scenario of mystical mechanics.

     

    Don't leave the cave people, there are no quests out there!

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • KenzeKenze Posts: 1,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by Thane

     

     

     

     

     

    Seriously, if you think Sandboxes are like that, you are deluded  beyond cure.

     

    How about actually PLAYING one before assaulting us who believe its a good concept? What you described is nothing remotely close to a sandbox game.

     

     

    name 1 pure sandbox game that isnt a ffa pvp griefers wet dream

    Xyson.

     

    thats only because noone plays Xyson and if so many people want a sandbox why dont they play Xyson?

     

    If you want a themepark, why don't you play an existing one?

    [mod edit]

     

    typical, you cant argue your point on the subject so you start to attack the posters

    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    —Lao-Tze

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Neherun
    /snip

     

    None, since getting killed in MMORPG against your own will isn't griefing. Its called freedom, that guy wanted you killed, so he killed you. The sad thing is, you were incapable of defending yourself, thus you got killed. Got the flip side of the coin? In turn, if he was incapable of killing you, he would be annoyed.

    You're not questioning FFA PvP, you are questioning the whole legitemacy of PvP altogether. We used to have an insult for such thinkers, which I am unfortunately incapable of using here, because its against the TOS.

     

    LOL, why? In what sane world is a person's game mode preference cause for name calling? I propose a social experiment.  Someone should record a 60 second clip of their best PvP and put it on a portable device.  Then find a random person in public and show it to them.  Record how impressed they seem at the time of view as opposed to how much fun the player had when recording it.

     

    It's the projection of real life hostility into a virtual environment that turns me off of PvP.  95% of people are well balanced individuals that enjoy fighting a real person rather than a program.  The problem is that the 5% is not worth being in the same space with.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Waybackwhen
    Agreed OP. We have enough theme parks, its time for a virtual world to play in.

     

    whats wrong with Xyson or Second Life? they both seem to offer what you guys are looking for. I think you sandboxer are just like us themeparkers.. we cant be satisfied.

     

    I would say production quality.  I only speak for myself but the current crop of MMOs is not too far removed from what I would like to play.  Most of the time I would settle for a big open world and flexible character classes.  EQN sounds to go far and above that, we'll see if it pans out that way.

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kenze
    Originally posted by Neherun
    Originally posted by Thane

     

     

     

     

     

    Seriously, if you think Sandboxes are like that, you are deluded  beyond cure.

     

    How about actually PLAYING one before assaulting us who believe its a good concept? What you described is nothing remotely close to a sandbox game.

     

     

    name 1 pure sandbox game that isnt a ffa pvp griefers wet dream

    Xyson.

     

    thats only because noone plays Xyson and if so many people want a sandbox why dont they play Xyson?

    good question.  ask the avid sandbox players.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • GN-003GN-003 NA, HIPosts: 78Member
    Originally posted by apocoluster

      Disagree.  Give me somthing to relax with after a long day of work.  Sandbox games for me seem to be essentially a 2nd job.  I want to have fun on the few remaining hours that are available to me between Dinner and bedtime.   Rather than sitting in line waiting for Doctor buffs so I can hunt HQ times for my Armorcrafter machines, or suck  vibrant sweat off of beasts with dozens of others to sell to crafters or Down load my Millionth Veldspar rock...I want to be told to walk 50 feet and kill 10 rats.  Thank you.

     

    Then play the myriad of MMOs on the market that suit your style of gaming? A lot of MMORPGs are time investments, they always have been. I can't say I'd want to spend $15 a month on a game I can "complete" in a week or so. If you're going to claim that games should suit your limited amount of playing time, I say a game's scope shouldn't be limited by those who are unable/unwilling to invest time and effort. The door swings both ways. You're also telling me that leveling up your character, gearing your character, grinding for levels/gold, running the raid treadmill isn't time consuming? It sure as hell is! These sort of "commitments" are found and required (in order to be viable in both PVE and PVP) in practically every themepark MMO in existence. Not to mention, the way a lot of themeparks are structured, you have to constantly be on the same page as your friends in terms of quests and zones, or you'll find yourself being left behind.

    You said what would be the point in creating a world when the majority of gamers would ignore it? Let me ask you this, do you know that for certain? I certainly don't. How many recent, AAA sandboxes/sandparks have there been? Certainly not enough to make that sort of assessment. For a lot of people, WoW was their first MMO experience. Subscribers have either been playing it since release, or have hopped between different, but similar games. Because of that, they've never really been exposed to MMOs that offer more freedom or have a different design philosophy. Why? For the last 7 years or so, everyone has been chasing WoW's shadow. This resulted in a wave of derivative MMOs that continue to flood and dominate the market. If there were more options available (backed by bigger companies), maybe these people would find those sort of games interesting and it would spawn a whole new fanbase. Who knows? Like others have said, a lot of recent gamers have been conditioned to expect combat, combat and more combat while they travel from point A to point B.

     

    Choice. That's all I ever ask for.

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