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If EQNEXT fails or flops how will it effect sandbox games.

2

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  • Trudge34Trudge34 Stevens Point, WIPosts: 392Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by Trudge34
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Assuming it will be a sandbox. I am not entirely sure of that.

    this. SoE calls EQ1 a sandbox. so I would watch out for their meaning of Sandbox.

    Do you have a link for that statement?  It is just too outrageous to be true.

    I came to this thread thinking in the back of my mind, well...comparing EQ1 to today's games that have come out since WoW...it basically is a sandbox. I don't think EQN will be a total sandbox, but be EQ1 with some sandbox elements. Good enough for me I'm hoping.

    Hope all you want. But if it plays like a Themepark, you will not call it a Sandbox to any degree. You will simply say it had a few Sandbox elements, while admiting it is indeed a Themepark game. Much like, very much like, all the others.

    I don't care what it's called. Themepark, Sandbox, Sandpark, Themebox, who the fuck cares? I want my virutal world back so if that has to have more themepark elements than sandbox, I don't care. FFS, people get so caught up in trying to catagorize these games no one seems to care to find out if they're even any fun to begin with. If it is a reskin of EQ1 I would be pretty happy, if they incorporate a few updated mechanics, I'll be even happier. Bottom line is, it better have some interdependancy in it no matter what anyone can catagorize it.

    Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
    Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
    Currently Playing: GW2

    Nytlok Sylas
    80 Sylvari Ranger

  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member


    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    *Now* would seem like a good time for Smed to explain to us how his Sandbox will actually play like a Sandbox.

    this.

    image

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by cybertrucker
    If SOE fails to deliver with a AAA sandbox, do you think it will discourage any other future investments by larger developers?

    It wont effect anything as Sandbox is not a good way for a company to make $$$.  There will continue to be the rare Triple A studio that decides to get on the Sandbox bandwagon but shortly after they will fail like every sandbox prior to the next one.  Sandbox is niche market and only really feel mainstream on this site, anywhere else you go (for MMO's) its mostly a themepark world, and we all know the best MMO's with the msot subscribers have been themeparks.

     

    Now Sandparks or Themebox's are a whole new argument and could gain some traction.

     What games exactly? WoW then.... isn't Eve the second most popular MMO out right now?  You say Niche like its a bad thing, the worst thing in MMO's lately has just been lowest common denominator. You are not aware of actual market or what may become popular any more than I.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    It won't effect sandbox games at all.

    Games 'failing' doesn't effect games being made.

    Games 'success' effects games being made.

    This is not exclusive to games.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by funyahns
     

     What games exactly? WoW then.... isn't Eve the second most popular MMO out right now?  You say Niche like its a bad thing, the worst thing in MMO's lately has just been lowest common denominator. You are not aware of actual market or what may become popular any more than I.

    Aion had 3M subs if I recall correctly.

    Lotro / DDO have around 500k before the F2P conversion. After F2P, they gained heaps more revenue (think they doubled) but we don't know the sub numbers. Doubt it went down due to the 100% more revenue.

    SWTOR is around 500k - 1M.

    GW2 sold 2M+.

    Market has been pretty clear on what it likes more in the MMO space for 7+ years now.

     

    These are official numbers only, not 'but my guild died so MMO X is dead!' 

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Smed has said "sandbox style game"

    the jury is out.

    that's what i think too. sandbox-style leaves the door open to interpretation.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • kb056kb056 redford, MIPosts: 423Member Common
    Smed's involved...he'll find a way to screw it up eventually.
  • xxvexerxxxxvexerxx San Jose, CAPosts: 22Member

    The effect on the genre of sandbox game in the whole will depend on the inicial outcome of EQNext, let me explain:

     

    Even if EQN fails in the long term, it won't affect us negatively. What we really have to worry about is the inicial response, much like how we saw in SWTOR. SWTOR's response in the mmo and star wars community was strong, the developers proved there was still a market for large AAA MMOs that had polish, voice acting, and intriuging story lines. Although they also proved the difficulty of appeasing their audience, listening to the suggestions, and inovating endgame. SWTOR had the inicial following and that is what was important. 

     

    As for EQN if it really is a massive Sandbox MMO and it has an amazing inicial following (like SWTOR), then that alone is protection for the genre we all know, love, and seek. That will prove there is still a market, even if it fails in the long term. (Which no one wants).

    Yet if it succeeds, and EQN makes and continues to make money, other AAA developers WILL take notice of this. And this is what we should look out for.

     

    -Vexer, 

    I was drunk while writing this.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by cybertrucker
    If SOE fails to deliver with a AAA sandbox, do you think it will discourage any other future investments by larger developers?

    It wont effect anything as Sandbox is not a good way for a company to make $$$.  There will continue to be the rare Triple A studio that decides to get on the Sandbox bandwagon but shortly after they will fail like every sandbox prior to the next one.  Sandbox is niche market and only really feel mainstream on this site, anywhere else you go (for MMO's) its mostly a themepark world, and we all know the best MMO's with the msot subscribers have been themeparks.

     

    Now Sandparks or Themebox's are a whole new argument and could gain some traction.

    You mean WoW? Because beside of that there is no Themepark with consistently higher subscription numbers than any AAA Sandbox. Just look at EvE, SWG and UO, and compare them with the Themeparks of that time over a period of 5 years, or even with nowadays Themeparks.

    UO peeked 250k - got over 10 years over 100k subscribers

    SWG peeked 400k?(i dont know exactly to be honest)

    EvE peeked 350k - got over 10 years somewhat around 200-250k subscribers

    Now themeparks

    EQ peeked around 500k - got over 10 years around 300k subscribers

    DAoC peeked around 250k - got over 10 years around 100k subs

    AO - peeked around 150k(?) - got over 10 years around what.. 50k subs

    WAR peeked around 1.5million(initial sales?) - got over 4 years around 300k?

    So your arguement isnt that good, because you really just have WOW and all the rest.

  • SentimeSentime Chicago, ILPosts: 272Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Assuming it will be a sandbox. I am not entirely sure of that.

     

    Exactly. 

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by funyahns
     

     What games exactly? WoW then.... isn't Eve the second most popular MMO out right now?  You say Niche like its a bad thing, the worst thing in MMO's lately has just been lowest common denominator. You are not aware of actual market or what may become popular any more than I.

    Aion had 3M subs if I recall correctly.

    Lotro / DDO have around 500k before the F2P conversion. After F2P, they gained heaps more revenue (think they doubled) but we don't know the sub numbers. Doubt it went down due to the 100% more revenue.

    SWTOR is around 500k - 1M.

    GW2 sold 2M+.

    Market has been pretty clear on what it likes more in the MMO space for 7+ years now.

     

    These are official numbers only, not 'but my guild died so MMO X is dead!' 

    Aion - in that number is the asia market included. THEY dont have subscibtions like we are used to it. You go into a bar, play the fucking game for 2 hours and you then are a subscriber. You cant count that.

    And in NA/EU Aion is below 500k

    Those numbers are never true for DDO, it might be true for Lotro though. Some links please.

    SWTOR is how old? do you think it will have that amount over 5 or 10 years? will it even exist as long? I doubt it.

    GW2 dont have any subscribtions. Or... Minecraft was sold around 8 million times. So what?

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    I sincerely hope Smed doesn't crash and burn.

    But SOE has been the Evil Empire before, imagine it can survive it again.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • davestr1zldavestr1zl MelbPosts: 218Member
    If it flops I don think it will have any effect whatsoever - the reason being that sandbox games are already considered a risky, undesirable investement with slim (or no) chances of 'big' returns. EQNEXT flopping wont change that in the slightest. If it is a success, however, then being arguably the first 'successful' sandbox it would quite likely inspire other developers/investors to consider sandboxes as viable. Currently, they're simply not viable unless as a small indy game or similar.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    So what?

    Any time you feel the urge to argue over subscription numbers with anyone, just stab your thigh with a fork instead.

    I would recommend the brick-self-face-smashing technique, but that's reserved.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Apraxis
     

    Aion - in that number is the asia market included. THEY dont have subscibtions like we are used to it. You go into a bar, play the fucking game for 2 hours and you then are a subscriber. You cant count that.

    And in NA/EU Aion is below 500k

    Those numbers are never true for DDO, it might be true for Lotro though. Some links please.

    SWTOR is how old? do you think it will have that amount over 5 or 10 years? will it even exist as long? I doubt it.

    GW2 dont have any subscribtions. Or... Minecraft was sold around 8 million times. So what?

    If we take the MMO as a whole, themepark MMO has more subs / generate more money.

    Which is why you see a lot more themepark MMOs then sandbox MMOs.

    The actual $$$ is higher in themeparks than sandbox; this is not a hard concept and pretty simple to see for the past 7 years.

    What SWTOR number will be in 5 - 10 years is irrevelant as those are the number we have right now. If you want to spin that to 'but it'll die in 5 years!' go at it. I like to deal with facts.

     

    http://mmodata.blogspot.com ;

    has some rough data.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,751Member Uncommon

    The Empire Strikes Back!

    What is success? In today’s MMO market it means selling lots of boxes for launch. You don’t have to be a MMO that is viable long term any more. By long term I mean six months. Let me repeat that, “long” term is six months.

    To be a success for us the players who do entertain the idea of playing a MMO beyond the two month point, lasting a year is all I would hope for. Anything longer would just be unrealistic.

    It is hard to see how they are going to develop all the themepark elements needed to satisfy the locust gamers who will descend on it frothing at their mandibles for a new game. While doing justice to long term sand box elements.

    All MMO’s focus on launch first and foremost these days, I can see the sand box elements getting squeezed and put back to later updates.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    So games are becoming more and more like other entertainments like Music / Films / Books?

    Not sure why that trend is so negative to be honest.

    I have a few movies I like to see multiple times, but usually, I see it once and that's that.

    What's so bad about MMOs following the same path?

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by jpnz

    Not sure why that trend is so negative to be honest.

     mmorpg.com

    You're here.  You should know the truth.  Nothing "passes", ever.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by jpnz

    Not sure why that trend is so negative to be honest.

     mmorpg.com

    You're here.  You should know the truth.  Nothing "passes", ever.

    I guess. XD

    But it is puzzling; music, films, books are mostly 'one time' things. Why is it hard for people to see MMOs can be like that for people as well?

    I used to play the heck out of Civ4. I don't now as I have Civ5 and other games (My backlog! /facepalm)

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by jpnz

    I guess. XD

    But it is puzzling; music, films, books are mostly 'one time' things. Why is it hard for people to see MMOs can be like that for people as well?

    I used to play the heck out of Civ4. I don't now as I have Civ5 and other games (My backlog! /facepalm)

    Mostly because the first MMOs made the horrible mistake of supporting the addiction at a very cheap rate.

    This lead to the prima facae unrealistic expectation of single games providing entertainment in perpetuity.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Onomas

    Its SOE.................

     

    And who cares with 3 other great sandboxes coming out. Archeage alone is what im waiting for, the repopulation loolks promising, and found a new title called greed monger today that looks very nice.

     

    EQ shouldnt take the leap, its a good game and they will screw it up.

    ArcheAge is not a sandbox MMO it's a themepark with some sandbox features. The repopulation is closer to a out and out sandbox MMO with many features that make the game closevto a true sandbox MMO.

    EQNext will be a hybrid MMO instead of a full on sandbox MMO, smed said sandbox style game.

    image
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    If the game fails then, its just another notch on SOE's belt of failure.. of which it has more than enough already, what would be truly startling, would be if the game was a success, honestly, people will be truly shocked, and that might have some effect on MMO's in general.. chances are it will be a nonevent though, blink and you miss it.image
  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
         What worries me is how sandbox type games are designed..  Most devs oftem make 1 of 2 mistakes when playing around sandbox options..  They either 1) make them so simple in design, they feel broken OR 2) they make them so complicated it alienates too many players from playing..  Some say Eve falls into this category..  The trick is to make a user friendly sandbox  that doesn't require a 1500 page handbook "how to" min/max your character to Uberness..while still challenging players to think , work and react as a community.. SWG (pre NGE) is my best example I have enjoyed.. SWG did so many things right, but blindly ignoring game breaking issues with no concerns..
  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    I think people expecting SWG in Norrath are going to be disappointed.
  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    I think people expecting SWG in Norrath are going to be disappointed.

    I didn't see anyone expecting SWG in the 5 pages of postings.. /shrug

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