Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Was DAOC a Theme Park or a Sand Box

124

Comments

  • WellzyCWellzyC Member UncommonPosts: 599

    I guess themepark..  But it was old school.. so no quests or anything. mostly group grinding.

     

    You had a house that you could decorate and craft in. Plus you could go get trophies and taxadermy from mobs you killed. And guilds could hold keeps and upgrade them. So it had some sandboxy features to it.

     

    Like your sig (poster above me)   we think alike it seems

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • OldManFunkOldManFunk Member Posts: 894

    DAoC was a water park, zoo and wax museum mixed with a little circus.

  • VhalnVhaln Member Posts: 3,159
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    It was a themepark.  The only folks who will think it is a sandbox probably never played a sandbox, and think that EQ1 was a sandbox.

     

    Exactly.  I just wish it were easier to describe what makes a game a sandbox, for people who seem totally confused by the concept.  It is tricky to put into words.

     

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Member UncommonPosts: 1,365
    Originally posted by Vhaln
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    It was a themepark.  The only folks who will think it is a sandbox probably never played a sandbox, and think that EQ1 was a sandbox.

     

    Exactly.  I just wish it were easier to describe what makes a game a sandbox, for people who seem totally confused by the concept.  It is tricky to put into words.

     

     

    it is tricky to put into words because there is no one definition for the word that is agreed upon.

    there is no one source we can refer to people, such as the dictionary.  people write up lists and paragraphs trying to define a word that in the end, their lists and paragraphs are going to exclude some games that are considered sandboxes or include others which clearly are not.

    overgeneralized crap like "pvp = sandbox" or "quests = themepark" serve only to confuse the issue by labeling games like WOW as sandboxes or EVE online as a themepark.

    the crux of the matter is though, with a system as complex and involved as an entire MMO, a simple one-dimensional term like themepark or sandbox is simply never going to describe the game in its entirety and carry over from game to game.  this is what is known as overgeneralizing.  there are far too many possible systems and combinations of systems possible in MMOs to arrive at an actual technical definition that will appease everyone across the spectrum of games.

    it is not too unlike labeling people.  it may be fine colloquially but as soon as we put any degree of scrutiny to the practice you find the labels and how they fit across the spectrum of personalities in the world breaks down.

    in the end. it is useless to argue which games are themepark and sandbox.  the terms are fine colloquially but argument over precise definition is going to end up fruitless and unagreeable in most every venture.

  • atziluthatziluth Member UncommonPosts: 1,190
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

     

    Doesnt matter if you agree or disagree.  I could say soemthing like " I Think the Moon is made of Gouda Cheese"  Doesnt make it right even if I believe. 

    Its fine to have your own narrow definition within the strata of the game, thats cool but it doesnt change the overall defintion.

    Its a very simple and straight forward defintion defined by one term.  Linearity! 

    Using Wikipedia as the definitive source on this discussion is rather humorous. Sorry but it is a subjective discussion which is self evident in this thread. Just because you happen to agree with the definitions you posted does not make them undisputed facts.

    Less arrogance and more objectivity might do you some good.

    -Atziluth-

    - Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    Themepark. I don't buy into the new marketing definition of sandbox.

  • Heinz130Heinz130 Member Posts: 227

    Sandbox: a game where the gameplay is driven by the players (no lines to be followed) and players actions directly afects enviroment and endgame

    WoW 4ys,EVE 4ys,EU 4ys
    FH1942 best tanker for 4years
    Playing WWII OL for some years untill now
    many other for some months

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Themepark, a very good themepark. An open world themepark, but a themepark non the less. Same applies to EQ & ac.

    Uo & eve are sandboxes
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    It was a themepark.  The only folks who will think it is a sandbox probably never played a sandbox, and think that EQ1 was a sandbox.

    EDIT:

    You know, it may be more accurate to say that when DAoC was released and when it was popular, it was definitely a themepark.  Nowadays though, people may consider it to be a sandbox.  But this has nothing to do with changes in the game and everything to do with people expecting more linear experiences from MMORPGs.

    +1 Well said, Creslin.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada Member UncommonPosts: 1,282

    Daoc was all the time a themepark with 3 realm pvp.

    PVE was much a grind as quests were scarce and bad in the vanilla days and nobody did bother with questing beside the "Epic" one.
    The World was predefined an no player action ever left "marks" in the world.
    It had some crafting economy with extreme boring gameplay mostly done by bots but the stuff was needfull.
    More Questing and instanced Housing came with later Expansions and Additions.

    PVP was an addition to the PVE-themepark that would fit into both worlds and does not define Daoc as sandbox or themepark but as 3 faction pvp game.


    Big Sandbox-MMOs be EVE, Ultima and SWG.
    Rich economy, freedom in gameplay, skillbased, player actions change and shape the persistent gameworld.

    The best parts of each Sandbox and Themepark would make great long lasting "Virtual World Simulators".
    Which in the 90s and early 2000s many expected mmorpgs would become until the Big Kahuna stranded the mmo business on the sandy beach.

    "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

    MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
    Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM

  • StarIStarI Member UncommonPosts: 987
    Originally posted by Thorqemada

    Daoc was all the time a themepark with 3 realm pvp.

    PVE was much a grind as quests were scarce and bad in the vanilla days and nobody did bother with questing beside the "Epic" one.
    The World was predefined an no player action ever left "marks" in the world.
    It had some crafting economy with extreme boring gameplay mostly done by bots but the stuff was needfull.
    More Questing and instanced Housing came with later Expansions and Additions.

    PVP was an addition to the PVE-themepark that would fit into both worlds and does not define Daoc as sandbox or themepark but as 3 faction pvp game.


    Big Sandbox-MMOs be EVE, Ultima and SWG.
    Rich economy, freedom in gameplay, skillbased, player actions change and shape the persistent gameworld.

    The best parts of each Sandbox and Themepark would make great long lasting "Virtual World Simulators".
    Which in the 90s and early 2000s many expected mmorpgs would become until the Big Kahuna stranded the mmo business on the sandy beach.

     

    This.

    I really don't get why people believe a themepark game becomes sandbox just becouse of adding lots of fluff.

    Building houses on 3000 possible ways, underwater fighting, flying,  diverse character look, huge world with million of small interactive details, etc etc, do not make a game sandbox.

    Get this in your thick skulls. A real sandbox will always have at least partial "full loot" and "no safe zone" system.

    Just so you get a real meaning to social interaction; politics, etc.

  • FishuFishu Member Posts: 12

    It`s difficult to associate DaoC with themepark, because than you only can think of WoW. It`s was a themepark game but nowhere near has WoW. You had no map direction and a very limited amount of quest ( No exclamation point either) . You had zone with monster of different level  but no indicator telling you that . You could get lost easily when you started to explore.

    So it`s felt more  open than WoW or GW2 because it`s was left to the player to discover the world and the dungeons You could get lost in daoc and dying etc had much more impact than most modern MMORPG.

     

    Level has nothing to do with sandboxes (and classe also) . In Uo you were also limited by the 7 skill you picked. Has a newbies you could not venture into Shame and expect to kill any elemental. So you was restricted by your power level just like DAOC or everquest by your level.

    A Fisher alone in the Ocean ? Possible. Until a giant octopus spawned in a fishnet and pwned your ass. Even if you were a trader in UO , you had to possess combat skill. GTA4 is also a sandbox game. It`s simply mean a open world with seamless interconnection. You`re just limited by your character. Killing rat has a grandmaster Swordman did not give you much benefit.

    The whole idea behind game such has Everquest and DAOC was to combat griefing.  Well in daoc plenty of griefing was to be fund. Like Ninja-Looting etc. WoW came with the idea of Bind on pick-up and carebears system

    The problem  I see is .. Themepark is associated with carebear and Daoc was anything but Carebears.

  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534
    Originally posted by punkrock

    There was no quest reallty in the old DAOC*unless you ask a guard but few knew of those lol*

    I would say a sandbox in some ways, but not really a theme park becouse there was no line to follow.

    lol, which daoc did you play? sure there were quests, lots of them.

    themepark. no sandbox.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435

    As I measure MMO's, DAOC was an early themepark, but with heavy virtual world elements.  The player progression experience was definitely directed and there was no real player metagame, you played with the tools the Devs gave you.

    Was still a damn fine MMORPG and provided a unique experience not likely to be repeated.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • FadedbombFadedbomb Member Posts: 2,081
    Originally posted by Wicoa

    Just came up with this question in my head its friday night and I have a glass of wine, yes this is how geeks party.

    In daoc I did not follow quest paths, from a low level it was about finding a group and grinding up mobs at various patches with people.  You could build your own house and RvR was an open ended pvp situation.

    Let me know what you think.

    It was NOT EITHER.

     

    It was a "SandPark" like EQ was. It was neither a Sandbox or Themepark. Calling either a Themepark is pretty much a blatant lie no matter how you look at it. Sure, i'd love to call it a Sandbox, but i'd be lieing to you. Similarly, anyone calling it a themepark have no idea what a themepark even is to begin with, or never played DAOC pre-Lab of Minotaur.

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • tank017tank017 Member Posts: 2,192

    I would say "Sandpark" for both EQ1 and Daoc as well..

     

    they both had elements of both themeparks and sandboxes..

     

     

    probably why they were so good ; )

  • PainlezzPainlezz Member UncommonPosts: 646

    DAOC had almost none of that at launch...

     

    I think people forget how long some of these games have been around and what was added to them years after release.

    - Housing was a major patch long after release

    - RvR didn't really work for a long time.  lots of issues with siege equipment (which didn't really work for along time) along with claiming/attacking keeps and such

     

    DAOC was awesome and I loved and played the crap out of it back in day... Just reminding people it took a long time to become what most remember it for. 

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Member Posts: 2,574
    Sandbox because it wasnt a linear game

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • xxtriadxxxxtriadxx Member UncommonPosts: 155

    Neither.

    Its that murky greyish area inbetween.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Themepark it had a leveling game, then it had an endgame.

    It's just its endgame was very different to most themeparks.
  • VhalnVhaln Member Posts: 3,159
    Originally posted by Fishu

    It`s difficult to associate DaoC with themepark, because than you only can think of WoW. 

     

    Not everyone has this problem.  It was a themepark in the tradition of EverQuest and the themepark MUDs that came before it.  The only thing that set it apart was the RvR, but that didn't make it any less of a themepark.  There was basically nothing sanbox-like about DAOC at all.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Member CommonPosts: 2,556
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Themepark it had a leveling game, then it had an endgame.

    It's just its endgame was very different to most themeparks.

    A themepark implies two things

     

    a) that the experience is on rails

    b) that it's safe and all well explained

     

    These were not true of DAoC. Classes were totally open ended. There were no guided leveling paths. There was a death penalty.

    There were very few quests, too.

  • SmoeySmoey Member UncommonPosts: 599

    It was an amazing game that will never have a replacement to fill the void left from pre-toa. It was more of a hybrid I guess.

     

    *cries in the corner

    (\ /) ?
    ( . .)
    c('')('')

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Member CommonPosts: 2,556
    Originally posted by mlauzon

     


    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Daoc is a themepark as is everquestThey just aren't wow clones (obviously)

     

    There is no such thing as a WoW-clone, all MMORPGs are in fact clones of the first: Meridian 59!

    WoW clones are MMOs that copy WoW specifically. And that is almost every AAA MMO of the last 8 years.

  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342
    DAoC was a great GAME

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

Sign In or Register to comment.