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[Column] The Elder Scrolls Online: 21 Things You Should Know About ESO

24

Comments

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    Sounds like a better version of SWTOR.

    The PvP sounds lame. I don't care how big the zone or area is; when people enter it,  they will be expecting PvP. This kills the element of surprise. It's just stupid.

    When will a game actually take the time and create some real World PvP. A deep and proper World PvP has never been done before. Instead, we get these cheap "add-on" ideas...   it all started with WoW.

    ^ nail on the head

    So play games with "better" PvP - MO and DF and EvE are --> that way.

    Ever ask yourself why devs aren't creating new AAA games with your style of PvP?

  • Mike-McQueenMike-McQueen Enfield, CTPosts: 243Member

     

    This is why we can't have nice things... so much negativity, no wonder these forums are so toxic and the expectations are so high - and are never met.

    Expectations are high because it's going on 2013 and we're playing the same games from 2000 reskinned over and over. It's a complete lack of imagination going on behind the scenes with these developing houses, or rather lack of balls to try what I and many others strongly believe will not only work but take over the market. EQ:N is on the right path going sandbox but I'm pretty sure they don't REALLY get it. The technology is there. The vision is not.

    I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen

    This is why we can't have nice things... so much negativity, no wonder these forums are so toxic and the expectations are so high - and are never met.

    Expectations are high because it's going on 2013 and we're playing the same games from 2000 reskinned over and over. It's a complete lack of imagination going on behind the scenes with these developing houses, or rather lack of balls to try what I and many others strongly believe will not only work but take over the market. EQ:N is on the right path going sandbox but I'm pretty sure they don't REALLY get it. The technology is there. The vision is not.

    But going back to PvP systems and ideas that were proved not to work BEFORE 2000 is the answer?

    Um no.

    There is even LESS innovation in the sandbox sub-genre.

    I agree that the genre right now does NOT look like I thought it would when I started in UO 13 or so years ago, but that last thing I want is to go further backwards to the EQ1 / UO pre-Trammel era.

  • bakabrödbakabröd lysekilPosts: 129Member
    wow lots of burnouts here.
  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    When will a game actually take the time and create some real World PvP. A deep and proper World PvP has never been done before.

    There are have been many games with open world pvp. Many mmos and many purely dedicated to pvp. UO and Asheron's Call were some of the very first. They have been thin on the western developer side perhaps but there are a crap load from asia. There are several AAA or near AAA mmos coming out likely within 2 years with open world pvp. The good news about those are that they are fully fleshed out pve games too which makes things far more interesting than just massive battlegrounds pretending to be mmos.

     

    My biggest complaint about the game is the divided leveling paths (if indeed they are entirely separate). The point to an open world is to have massive game space for alternative leveling paths. This game ensures that 2/3s of the leveling areas can never be played unless playing alts. Of course the obvious issue for pvp is that you are now deligated to nothing more than large battlegrounds set up for pvp which has typically failed in most games. I hated WAR pvp lakes, Daoc of only slightly tolerated. AV in Wow never worked and only got worse. GW2 is more or less a joke on all fronts. TSW's large map requires massive rework. Swtor's large map was a complete failure. Etc, etc ...

    You stay sassy!

  • jiveturkey12jiveturkey12 You havent heard of it, FLPosts: 1,262Member

    Ok seriously, im getting so sick of people blindly supporting this game. Yes, your allowed to be intrested in any game you like, im not saying that you cant like ESO. 

    But for the love of Talos at least TRY and understand where Elder Scrolls fans are coming from with their distaste for the game.

    Look at what us "ES "Purists" (I love how even MAMORPIG has branded us in a poor light now) get from Elder Scrolls Online:

     

    No Theives guild or Dark Brotherhood - Both staples of the Franchise for a Generartion

    No Ability to interact with races of opposing factions - Probably THE worst tragedy of ESO

    No Housing - Post launch or not theres so many ways they could have done this, IE Joining one of the great Houses like telvanni or Redoran

    No Freeform Classes - Im sorry no matter how hard they are trying to spin "Classes but more freeform" its simply not Elder Scrolls. In Elder Scrolls you gain skills, those skill points translate to levels, and then you choose how you advance based on what you use and how much you use it. A class system, especially one with a trinity can and will never provide this because its foundationally impossible. 

     

    And Of course, Phasing.

    To me if your an MMO fan and you cant understand or chooses not to understand the linear implications that come with a game "PHasing" its content, then you need to stop praising ESO and get on WoW and LOTRO immedietely. 

    Seriously, no matter how many times a marketing guru for a company tells you that they can "Find a way around" phasing, to make it so groups can play both content together, its a complete lie. They said the EXACT same thing with WoW, and guess what? Your FORCED to play through the content to get to your friends content. 

     

    People Always complain about how MMO's used to FORCE Group play and how people hated interacting with each other. Well whats so different about phasing then? It forces you to play the game in a linear singleplayer fashion. And if thats the game you guys want, again go play WoW, go play LOTRO, you already have two different IP's, Great IP's mind you that do this. Why does Elder Scrolls have to be on the list with them? 

     
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Lol how was the pvp system "proved not to work before 2000"

    Daoc is in the top mmos for pvp its either that or eve as the best, can't decide between them.

    that said I dont think TESO will capture the daoc magic as.
    1 instancing
    2 no mordred ffa ruleset
    3 no darkness falls
    4 it has instanced raids, so ava isn't THE endgame
    5 it has tupperware pvp for people to go and hide in if ava ain't working out for them
    6 newer generation of players that will take the path of least resistance, joining the biggest side, keep trading etc.. less and less people go the small side for kudos these days.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon

    "Why does Elder Scrolls have to be on the list with them? "

     

    Because that is the type of game they want to make?

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    The pvp area Is the size of oblivion by the way. Comparisons to swtor are ridiculous. Gw2 is a better comparison.
  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member

    SWtoR didn't fail because it had a personal story. They just went overboard with it and made it the prime (and some say only worthwhile) feature in their game.

    TSW didn't fail because of a personal story either, if anything it has helped TSW, but they simple ran out of time and money to put out a complete game. At least I want to believe they would have done a better job with combat if they could have. Also I am not sure TSW has failed. Its a nitch came, if that's what Funcom was aimming for then it might float along just fine for a while (it just wasn't a huge/popular success).

  • Mike-McQueenMike-McQueen Enfield, CTPosts: 243Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    Sounds like a better version of SWTOR.

    The PvP sounds lame. I don't care how big the zone or area is; when people enter it,  they will be expecting PvP. This kills the element of surprise. It's just stupid.

    When will a game actually take the time and create some real World PvP. A deep and proper World PvP has never been done before. Instead, we get these cheap "add-on" ideas...   it all started with WoW.

    ^ nail on the head

    So play games with "better" PvP - MO and DF and EvE are --> that way.

    Ever ask yourself why devs aren't creating new AAA games with your style of PvP?

    I will go back to DF:UW and give it another go, see if they can make it happen this time. I have sub'd to EVE for years now, and you know I actually do enjoy some themeparks..for 30 days like everyone else. And the reason "my" style game has never been done by a AAA developer is because there's not enough people who remember what it was like to game before the boom. How many people do you know who played UO, the original Neverwinter nights for AOL, or hell the muds from whence it all started. What about pen and paper? The elements that made these games great are gone or watered down for the masses. The simple fact is not everyones a hero. A hero should be someone who steps up and makes it happen. The option to be a villian is never available. You could never be famous or infamous ever after WoW. I mean I get it, they all sold out and went after the money, tried to figure out what the best way to retain subs with the kiddies and keep them interested, hence things like pandaria and pokemon, but honestly you can create a themepark and have 10 million hits for a month or a virtual world and hold a million hardcore gamers for a decade. Do the math.

    I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by jiveturkey12

    Ok seriously, im getting so sick of people blindly supporting this game. Yes, your allowed to be intrested in any game you like, im not saying that you cant like ESO. 

    But for the love of Talos at least TRY and understand where Elder Scrolls fans are coming from with their distaste for the game.

    Look at what us "ES "Purists" (I love how even MAMORPIG has branded us in a poor light now) get from Elder Scrolls Online:

     

    No Theives guild or Dark Brotherhood - Both staples of the Franchise for a Generartion

    No Ability to interact with races of opposing factions - Probably THE worst tragedy of ESO

    No Housing - Post launch or not theres so many ways they could have done this, IE Joining one of the great Houses like telvanni or Redoran

    No Freeform Classes - Im sorry no matter how hard they are trying to spin "Classes but more freeform" its simply not Elder Scrolls. In Elder Scrolls you gain skills, those skill points translate to levels, and then you choose how you advance based on what you use and how much you use it. A class system, especially one with a trinity can and will never provide this because its foundationally impossible. 

     

    And Of course, Phasing.

    To me if your an MMO fan and you cant understand or chooses not to understand the linear implications that come with a game "PHasing" its content, then you need to stop praising ESO and get on WoW and LOTRO immedietely. 

    Seriously, no matter how many times a marketing guru for a company tells you that they can "Find a way around" phasing, to make it so groups can play both content together, its a complete lie. They said the EXACT same thing with WoW, and guess what? Your FORCED to play through the content to get to your friends content. 

     

    People Always complain about how MMO's used to FORCE Group play and how people hated interacting with each other. Well whats so different about phasing then? It forces you to play the game in a linear singleplayer fashion. And if thats the game you guys want, again go play WoW, go play LOTRO, you already have two different IP's, Great IP's mind you that do this. Why does Elder Scrolls have to be on the list with them? 

     

    Thanks for speaking for me but you are wrong

     

    I've been a TES fan since arena and I'm loving what they have shown us so far, so thanks for nominating yourself as my spokesperson but no thanks as most the tes fans ive spoken to understand that there are limitation on what you can do when expecting everyone to play together in the same space, and as long as they get the TES feel when it comes to combat and exploration right we are good

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    Sounds like a better version of SWTOR.

    The PvP sounds lame. I don't care how big the zone or area is; when people enter it,  they will be expecting PvP. This kills the element of surprise. It's just stupid.

    When will a game actually take the time and create some real World PvP. A deep and proper World PvP has never been done before. Instead, we get these cheap "add-on" ideas...   it all started with WoW.

    ^ nail on the head

    So play games with "better" PvP - MO and DF and EvE are --> that way.

    Ever ask yourself why devs aren't creating new AAA games with your style of PvP?

    I will go back to DF:UW and give it another go, see if they can make it happen this time. I have sub'd to EVE for years now, and you know I actually do enjoy some themeparks..for 30 days like everyone else. And the reason "my" style game has never been done by a AAA developer is because there's not enough people who remember what it was like to game before the boom. How many people do you know who played UO, the original Neverwinter nights for AOL, or hell the muds from whence it all started. What about pen and paper? The elements that made these games great are gone or watered down for the masses. The simple fact is not everyones a hero. A hero should be someone who steps up and makes it happen. The option to be a villian is never available. You could never be famous or infamous ever after WoW. I mean I get it, they all sold out and went after the money, tried to figure out what the best way to retain subs with the kiddies and keep them interested, hence things like pandaria and pokemon, but honestly you can create a themepark and have 10 million hits for a month or a virtual world and hold a million hardcore gamers for a decade. Do the math.

     

    As mentioned there are several quality sandbox or sandbox hybrid mmos coming out likely within 1-2 years ... 3 at the outset (not sure how long EQNext will take). Most of these will have pvp entirely within the main world and pretty much no limitations to map accessibility for gameplay. The fact the most of these games are very far along in development says that the concept was either never forgotten or the problems and popular revolt against themeparks clones has been known for a few years now. This is the first time in many years where I have been optimistic for the future of mmos.

     

    I am not sure what people want from Teso anyway. Yes Skyrim was more or less an open world sandbox but it was also a single player game. The entire history of the series was a single player game. The developers have to somehow preserve elements of the original games but still make it multiplayer. Seeing how story was a massive part of the TES series, a pure sandox game is more or less out of the picture anyway. It sounds like Teso may actually be fun but what sort of fun game it is is still left to be seen.

     

    You stay sassy!

  • Mike-McQueenMike-McQueen Enfield, CTPosts: 243Member

    ^ Me too. I have a feeling it'll take a couple to get it right but at least it's coming to fruition finally.

     

    Let me just go on the record for saying that I am hopeful TESO keeps me enthralled from it's launch until a real game drops. I love Elder Scrolls as much as the next guy. Daggerfall might be my all time favorite rpg, and while I don't agree with the direction they took it, it looks good and sounds fun enough.

    I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Very much looking forward to this game.  I am not keen on that server technology and the heavy use of instancing/phasing but its not like this hasn't been done before.  Would prefer a server based system with open ended worlds and a complete lack of story. (i.e. let the player create his own story) but I can safely say the rest of the game is shaping up to be pretty damn good.

     

    I jsut hope that there is enough great PvE elements at endgame to keep me interested for the long haul.

     

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Lol how was the pvp system "proved not to work before 2000"

    Daoc is in the top mmos for pvp its either that or eve as the best, can't decide between them.

    that said I dont think TESO will capture the daoc magic as.
    1 instancing
    2 no mordred ffa ruleset
    3 no darkness falls
    4 it has instanced raids, so ava isn't THE endgame
    5 it has tupperware pvp for people to go and hide in if ava ain't working out for them
    6 newer generation of players that will take the path of least resistance, joining the biggest side, keep trading etc.. less and less people go the small side for kudos these days.
     

    While I'll agree with you on instancing the rest is pure hogwash.

     

    For one Mordred and Andred both released well after the game released and both were a colossal failure and had the lowest population the entire time I played.  Eventually Andred was shuttered and merged with Mordred.  So your rosey tinted glasses are kind of fogged up.  FFA PvP will never be mainstream and will always be the smallest niche audience.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • achesomaachesoma Portland, ORPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon

    Honestly, I'm totally burnt out on "personal story" after SWTOR, TSW, and GW2.  I just hope they don't go overboard with cutscenes.  Can't I just play the friggin game?  Why not just tell me the story as I'm playing?

     

    All the class customization options becomes a moot point if they are sticking to the Trinity.  This was one of my gripes about TSW.  If people are forced to use specific builds to complete certain content then true customization is lost.  People aren't playing THEIR way. 

     

    The action-focused combat and 3 factions are the two things this game really has going for it.  I'm just curious if Zenimax has anything else up their sleeve for end-game other than raids and pvp. 

    image

  • Mike-McQueenMike-McQueen Enfield, CTPosts: 243Member
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    Very much looking forward to this game.  I am not keen on that server technology and the heavy use of instancing/phasing but its not like this hasn't been done before.  Would prefer a server based system with open ended worlds and a complete lack of story. (i.e. let the player create his own story) but I can safely say the rest of the game is shaping up to be pretty damn good.

     

    I jsut hope that there is enough great PvE elements at endgame to keep me interested for the long haul.

     

    Exactly this. I like the one server idea in theory, but instancing/phasing is a complete turn off for me. The whole "set your play style preferences" thing kinda has me miffed too. One of those will have to pay the $60 to find out deals. The IP is incredible and engaging having been well built with the games before so you can't lose there. But yeah end game PVE and PVP have to be stout. I think the level boosting for pvp is the wrong way to go too. Hopefully their "WvW" is more dynamic and less meta. If it can keep me hooked for a year I'll be ecstatic and impressed.

    I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  • MMOwandererMMOwanderer LisbonPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen

     

    This is why we can't have nice things... so much negativity, no wonder these forums are so toxic and the expectations are so high - and are never met.

    Expectations are high because it's going on 2013 and we're playing the same games from 2000 reskinned over and over. It's a complete lack of imagination going on behind the scenes with these developing houses, or rather lack of balls to try what I and many others strongly believe will not only work but take over the market. EQ:N is on the right path going sandbox but I'm pretty sure they don't REALLY get it. The technology is there. The vision is not.

    Exactly

    The problem with TESO is that it's looking like another 2 month wonder themepark. It literally sonds like a combination of Rift, TOR, TSW and GW2 with the combat, questing, personall story, dungeons (expect ow ones), anchors, etc. The issue is that, while these mechanics may be fun and interesting, it's content that as an "end". I don't hate TP's hate all, btw, just teh fact that once it's all consumed we'll probably be left grinding the same instances and quests over and over.

    Standart pve themepark 101. it's not that it may not be fun, just it will probably follow the same path as the others and that is why many of us expect more nowadays. Sandbox is not the ultimate answer, but doing more that copying teh same formula would be nice.

    My only hope for this game teh crafting and rvr pvp. If it's actually a center piece of the game and well developed and fun, then maybe i'll get more excited. Otherwise, yeah.

     

     

     

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,183Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    Sounds like a better version of SWTOR.

    The PvP sounds lame. I don't care how big the zone or area is; when people enter it,  they will be expecting PvP. This kills the element of surprise. It's just stupid.

    When will a game actually take the time and create some real World PvP. A deep and proper World PvP has never been done before. Instead, we get these cheap "add-on" ideas...   it all started with WoW.

    Excuse me?  The best pvp in any MMO was in DAoC and guess what it worked very similar.  You really should not comment on something you have never experienced.   There is plenty of surprise in such a game.  

    The more I read the better I like this game.  I think it will make Neverwinter look like something from a 2nd hand store.

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member

    Too many post launch features. We all know these things get pushed back not months but years due to bug fixes, content patches and the possibility of staff dropoffs or funding problems.

    Also, personal story, phasing and blah blah blah... just done to death.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • black_isleblack_isle IstanbulPosts: 238Member Uncommon

    Well the "shadowy" guilds are the best parts of any TES game and many things come after launch so... no purchase at launch :)

     

    And making whole Cyrodiil a PvP area is not good imo. Certainly make a huge area for pvp but let me roam and adventure in Cyrodiil too as it is one of the best zones in Tamriel and people have fond memories of it from Oblivion.

     
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mueslinator

     @Sovrath:

    E, Add UI mods that make the abysmal UI (since Oblivion) actually bearable.

    Plus: The beauty of those mods is: Everyone can decide for him-/herself if they want a certain mod. And for their gaming experience, that is good.

    Take a look at Diablo 3, and how it isn't moddable. I think that for certain game series (TES foremost among them) moddability is a big part of its appeal. I know that I only could stand Oblivion after I had applied at least ten mods. Most doing things like heighten immersion (better weather and flora), others blunted the infamous Useless Levels (and bandits in full Daedric armour asking for 100 Gold). But honestly? Bethesda has -in part- mods to thank that TES is as famous as it is today.

    Well, I agree the user interface was horrible and the implementation of it is horrendous. Have you ever clicked on a dialogue choice only to have the list scroll down and you are clicking on something else?

    My point is, and something you point out as well, these are all subjective additions. I know that some people feel that an unmodded elder scrolls game is not worth playing but my feeling is that they make the game that they want to make and allow  players to skew it.

    I think the world they create and the freedom they offer is the thing that draws players. The mods just allow for slight deviation.

    I'd be curious to see how many people use mods as compared with people who don't use mods.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I have no fond memories of oblivion, it was such a massive let down after the excellent Morrowind.

    Skyrim brought the series back though.
  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Lol how was the pvp system "proved not to work before 2000"

    Daoc is in the top mmos for pvp its either that or eve as the best, can't decide between them.

    that said I dont think TESO will capture the daoc magic as.
    1 instancing
    2 no mordred ffa ruleset
    3 no darkness falls
    4 it has instanced raids, so ava isn't THE endgame
    5 it has tupperware pvp for people to go and hide in if ava ain't working out for them
    6 newer generation of players that will take the path of least resistance, joining the biggest side, keep trading etc.. less and less people go the small side for kudos these days.
     

    While I'll agree with you on instancing the rest is pure hogwash.

     

    For one Mordred and Andred both released well after the game released and both were a colossal failure and had the lowest population the entire time I played.  Eventually Andred was shuttered and merged with Mordred.  So your rosey tinted glasses are kind of fogged up.  FFA PvP will never be mainstream and will always be the smallest niche audience.

    Exactly.

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