Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Hipsters... hipsters everywhere

123457»

Comments

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    WoW is still the most popular mmorpg in the subscription market. How many of you think it offers the best quality in the market?

    Irrelevant.

    No really. What we think does not matter, unless we're holding Blizzard accounts.

    Blizzard's interest is to keep the majority of their customers believing that, and generation of new customers.

    Pretty sure they'd snicker at the hubris..."Hey boss, those guys on mmorpg.com think we care about their opinions." 'Heee heee (rolling around on stacks of cash)"

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon

    Actually what we think does matter. I'm not talking about the people of this forum, but in general.

    If people are tired by the hub quest system or the quests system in general, it will change in future mmorpgs. If people are tired of raidings, then new offerings will deliver other features. If people are tired of themeparks, we may see quality sandboxes or hybrids offered.

    And Blizzard is notorious about doing nothing but the minimum effort. Which in their case involves copying the best features of their competitors and incorporating them into their game, whether they fit or not. When they have no serious competition, people get the same reheated soup over and over again.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Actually what we think does matter. I'm not talking about the people of this forum, but in general.

    If people are tired by the hub quest system or the quests system in general, it will change in future mmorpgs. If people are tired of raidings, then new offerings will deliver other features. If people are tired of themeparks, we may see quality sandboxes or hybrids offered.

    And blizzard cares a lot about that...why?

    They're noting an aging game begin the inevitable slow fade.

    We may see..nearly anything.  Even inherently fine ideas like D3 and SC2 and pandas...cough.

    The conflicting opinions of a herd of aging vets?  Probably matter less than the opinions of a (much bigger) herd of Smartphone owners.  And that second group has an advantage, from a new-business standpoint; no opinions already set in rock (apparently something of an issue for the MMO industry).

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    WoW is still the most popular mmorpg in the subscription market. How many of you think it offers the best quality in the market?

    Irrelevant.

    No really. What we think does not matter, unless we're holding Blizzard accounts.

    Blizzard's interest is to keep the majority of their customers believing that, and generation of new customers.

    Pretty sure they'd snicker at the hubris..."Hey boss, those guys on mmorpg.com think we care about their opinions." 'Heee heee (rolling around on stacks of cash)"

    Yeah, same as the music producers who keep creating the next big boy band or pop female singers care about what critics think of the music that they produce. 

    May not be considered high quality, but it sure brings in a butt load of cash.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Xasapis
    WoW is still the most popular mmorpg in the subscription market. How many of you think it offers the best quality in the market?

    Irrelevant.

    No really. What we think does not matter, unless we're holding Blizzard accounts.

    Blizzard's interest is to keep the majority of their customers believing that, and generation of new customers.

    Pretty sure they'd snicker at the hubris..."Hey boss, those guys on mmorpg.com think we care about their opinions." 'Heee heee (rolling around on stacks of cash)"

    Yeah, same as the music producers who keep creating the next big boy band or pop female singers care about what critics think of the music that they produce. 

    May not be considered high quality, but it sure brings in a butt load of cash.

    In all that example I think the smartphone owners have the largest voice because every couple of years you get a smartphone subsidy and can shift at will, but even that doesn't seem to matter to the larger companies.  Let's take Verizon, which could be analogous to Blizzard in their dominance and power.  For a long time they've not had a viable Windows smartphone.  They wouldn't take on any of the new WP models until they supported LTE/4G.  Verizaon customers screamed, moaned, threatened to leave, actually left, and still Verizon said, "Yeah, okay whatever, kthxbai."

    Until the number of disatisfied become a united majority they aren't likely to be a significant voice.  As an MMO community we're a very divided disatisfied group and not likely a majority, therefore our voice is easily marginalized.

  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 New York, NYPosts: 884Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Paradigm68
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    Yep. Your opinion that there is no fine dining is negated as being a fact by other people's opinion that there is fine dining. Isn't that obvious?

    If anyone can claim any game is fine dining and by doing so makes it true, don't you think it diminishes the whole notion? Afterall, the whole idea is to set your preference above everyone else's. You see if every game is fine dining, none is.

    Not at all. As I said, its a subjective judgement. Its true for that person. What it does mean is that any claim that there isn't any any fine dining quality mmo's is demonstrably false, because somone thinks there is.

    See, you're making the claim that no one can judge any current mmo's as being above a certain quality. For you to be wrong, someone just has to in fact judge a given mmo above a certain quality. That being the case, your argument is rendered invalid.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,418Member Uncommon

    Cassette tapes become the defacto standard despite being the poorest available solution for conveying music (but the easiest for recording).  VHS wins despite not being as good as Betamax, due to market dominance and a few other factors.

     

    Popcorn may be fluff, but you don't always want to eat a steak at the movies.  'The Best' is not a singular characteristic.      'Popularity' is much more easily manipulated.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by colddog04

    The McDonalds analogy is horrible.

     

    350k people play EVE. 200k people play AoC. EVE is the McDonalds of MMORPGs.

     

    It's just an ultimately stupid argument with a seriously flawed logic to it.

    And AOC is the Burger King of MMO's, with LOTRO taking the place of Wendy's and Mortal online, I dunno, Jack in the box?

    Probably more accurate to call WOW McDonalds however, billions served and all that you know.

    Point is, among MMORPG's, just like among fast food hamburger joints, the quality is pretty much the same between all of them, and the reason for one chain's greater popularity over another is less about one really being "better" than another, but more about who's advertising has been more effective over the long haul.

    Where the food analogy fails is if you try to say one MMORPG is of a higher quality than the others, that EVE for some reason is the 5 Guys/Burger 21/BurgerMonger etc of Burger joints, when in fact there's no discernable evidence that is true.

    There are differences in how things taste between food at the various low end restaurant chains, but that doesn't really reflect any difference in quality, but more about consumer preferences about certain features each might have (hey, I like my burger flame broiled, McDonalds doesn' t offer that)

    Yet some folks hate McDonalds just  because it's McDonalds and the most popular, and take their business elsewhere.

    I think a more interesting example in the real world of this phenomenon is how many people loath Walmart, and won't even shop there despite the fact it frequently has the lowest price for the item they are shopping for.

    Their distaste has nothing to do with what matters, price, or quality, and everything to do with some esoteric perceptions about corporate unfairness or in fact, they are too hip or high brow to shop at such a store.

    They are being hipsters in this scenario as well.

    The actual sub numbers were irrelevant to me. I was just making them up to demonstrate a point. A point that I think you made well here. It's a terrible analogy for many reasons to be honest. I think people cling to it because they need to believe whatever they are currently doing is more worthwhile than whatever other people are doing. 

     

    I only eat steaks! I would never eat that cheap hamburger place stuff! I'm better at life than you!

     

    From the outside looking in, both parties are wasting their life in a video game trying to prove to each other how superior their decisions have been. It's a bit sick. I think only the most insecure type of person could actually level the McDonalds comparison with a straight face.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xasapis

    WoW is still the most popular mmorpg in the subscription market. How many of you think it offers the best quality in the market?
     
     

    Well, I don't like WoW and I think it is one of the best "quality" games on the market.

     

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member
    Originally posted by strangepower

     


    Originally posted by evolver1972

    Originally posted by Ginaz

    Originally posted by evolver1972 Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good.   Hitler was popular.   So was disco.   The masses don't always know what they're talking about.  Which is why true democracy sucks.
    Wow, it only took the first reponse to the OP to mention Hitler.  New record?
    Perfect example of my first statement.  :)

     

     

    I also mentioned *gasp* disco!  :P


     

    Somehow I doubt that you were around for the Disco era.


    And no, he wasn't popular, a whole war to fight him an all... he was very charismatic to his countrymen, and he had meth in the soldiers water lol.

    But nice job on the exaggerated and extremely attention seeking term of choice, couldn't of used something.... I don't know modern and familiar? Like... cars, soda, Justin Beiber?

    Born in 1972....do the math.  Besides, what's age got to do with any of it anyway?

     

    Yes, in his country (and in many parts of the world) Hitler was very popular.  That's what happens with charismatic people.  They become popular.  You seem to be equating popular with good.

     

    I was merely using Hitler and disco as great examples of how popular things are not necessarily good.

     

    ...and how are Hitler and disco not familiar?  Since you accused me of being too young to remember the disco age, you just kind of contradicted yourself.

     

    BTW, it's funny to see that you are too young to really have any recollection of disco when it was popular, yet you tried to pin that on me.  Classic.

    image

    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

    Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member
    This idea of not playing a game because its popular, i agree is quite stupid. I play TSW, why, because i LIKE TSW. i hate WoW not because its popular, but because after Cataclysm it left me bleeding from the asshole and didnt even buy me dinner.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    I play EVE and it definitely is an acquired taste.

    That's all I'm saying.

     

    I hear you, but some would go so far as to say that because it's an ACQUIRED taste that it's a SUPERIOR taste.  On that I would have to disagree.  Beer is an acquired taste too, but it honestly tastes like moldy or stale bread soaked in water.  Personally, I think beer is repulsive and prefer wine and assorted liquors.  Does that mean I have SUPERIOR taste?  No.  It only means I have ACQUIRED some different tastes.

     

    edit: By the way, I know YOU never said it was superior, just acquired.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Paradigm68
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Paradigm68
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    Yep. Your opinion that there is no fine dining is negated as being a fact by other people's opinion that there is fine dining. Isn't that obvious?

    If anyone can claim any game is fine dining and by doing so makes it true, don't you think it diminishes the whole notion? Afterall, the whole idea is to set your preference above everyone else's. You see if every game is fine dining, none is.

    Not at all. As I said, its a subjective judgement. Its true for that person. What it does mean is that any claim that there isn't any any fine dining quality mmo's is demonstrably false, because somone thinks there is.

    See, you're making the claim that no one can judge any current mmo's as being above a certain quality. For you to be wrong, someone just has to in fact judge a given mmo above a certain quality. That being the case, your argument is rendered invalid.

    I'm not saying the can't, I'm saying they shouldn't. If everyone does it, the whole notion loses all value. Its perfectly fine to have your own opinion about a game, but if you advertise it as better than mine, you're wrong. Mind you, there's always more educated opinions.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Until the number of disatisfied become a united majority they aren't likely to be a significant voice.  As an MMO community we're a very divided disatisfied group and not likely a majority, therefore our voice is easily marginalized.

    Look around you at the wildly disparate opinions expressed on this website, and try to imagine any force. question, opinion, topic that can really unify them.

    Our local variety of proselytes, provocateurs, and would-be rebel leaders has been trying for years, no million man marches are happening yet.  Frankly, given that most of them have all of the charisma and leadership qualities of rotting baitfish, I doubt they'll ever generate more than a minority of "me toos", let alone lead a politicial party to victory.

    But that won't stop 'em from trying their demagoguic best, of course.  No wonder they're so frustrated.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    @ Quirhid

    I put some quick though in whole matter.  I think we must clarify what we even talk about.

    There are multiple reasons why person start and continue to play certain game, but I will list 3 reasons I find most universal and propably most important:

    1.  Type of gameplay - basically what game is about,  how it is played, what there is to do and to lesser extent more minor things like style(but not quality) of graphics and similar things.

    2.  Technical quality -  basically how well does it work.  That would include: number of bugs,  countable quality of graphics (polygon numbers, textures resulution, amount of details and so on),   performance, how quick bugs and exploits are fixed, how well bots and cheats are managed, in-game and billing support.

    3. Price and / or business model. - how high is the price and how you pay.  Let's not talk about it here though.

     

    What can be talk about is technical quality and that can be objective to a point.  Gameplay and it's type though is subjective and there is not better or worse other than on scale on personal subjective preference.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Until the number of disatisfied become a united majority they aren't likely to be a significant voice.  As an MMO community we're a very divided disatisfied group and not likely a majority, therefore our voice is easily marginalized.

    Look around you at the wildly disparate opinions expressed on this website, and try to imagine any force. question, opinion, topic that can really unify them.

    Our local variety of proselytes, provocateurs, and would-be rebel leaders has been trying for years, no million man marches are happening yet.  Frankly, given that most of them have all of the charisma and leadership qualities of rotting baitfish, I doubt they'll ever generate more than a minority of "me toos", let alone lead a politicial party to victory.

    But that won't stop 'em from trying their demogoguic best, of course.  No wonder they're so frustrated.

    Add to it willingness to 'fight for better cause'.  It is easy to express your personal opinion in your spare time, but to actually put an effort and try to make a 'diffrence' by creating some sort of big community amonst certain cause would require very hard and long work.   Well not many people would like to devote so much. Especially not much capable people and for what is purely entertaiment purpose.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    The McDonalds analogy is horrible.

    600k people play EVE. 200k people play AoC. EVE is the McDonalds of MMORPGs.

    It's just an ultimately stupid argument with a seriously flawed logic to it.

     

    You are comparing two MMOs to work out the numbers of each genre of MMO in the whole industry? Compare EVE to the rest of the MMO market thats why the rest are a Big Mac. At least I think thats what you were saying, not sure.

    As for me, I acquired a superior taste early in life and intend to stick to it. :)

123457»
Sign In or Register to comment.